Yes, exactly. Imagine if 1.7 Billion people scattered so broadly were inclined to "violent bigotry, supremacist hatred, and war."

Wunpoyntsebbenwidda bee.

It's the ideology that is pernicious. Individual people need to be taken as individuals.

However, the poll numbers are disturbing. For example:

ICM (2016): 2 in 3 Muslims in Britain would not report terror plot to police.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4730825.ece

This is charming:

Pew Research (2010): 82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
70% of Jordanian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
42% of Indonesian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
82% of Pakistanis favor stoning adulterers
56% of Nigerian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

I like this guy -- been following him Twitter for a while.

https://twitter.com/TarekFatah/status/743595762408357888/photo/1?cn=cmV0d2VldGVkX3JldHdlZXRfbm90aWZpY2F0aW9u&refsrc=email

> It's the ideology that
> is pernicious.

Where do you see it taking root? Have you ever seen anyone in your social circle turn to Islam, let alone to militant Islam? Any young men otherwise dialed in to Western capitalism? Any middle-aged women in the western world? "Pernicious?"

> Individual people need to be
> taken as individuals.

Then by what possible proportion could you be distressed? Is there any other subset of a population, in a similar proportion, about whom you're prepared to spazz in similar splendor? Here's a formula, a little division thing:

   1,700,000,000
    -------------      X 100 = ___%
    Some number of
  Dangerous Muslims 

Plug any number you want in there, whatever nightmare figure comes to mind. Try 200,000. Try five million. Is that percentage truly, honestly likely to overwhelm the stunningly greater representation which the rest of the faith brings to the world? Why haven't they taken your paranoiac reading of the Koran to heart already? Why are they, so similarly to other developing populations across the globe, so very much less likely to seize the benefits of modernity with both hands?... Trade, literacy, suffrage and nutrition?

We always knew this was going to happen. Bringing primitive people up to speed was always going to be tough, especially in Egypt, one of the more devout, traditional, oppressed and impoverished Muslim countries.

You're apparently going to spend the rest of your days seeing all these essentially predictable —if heartbreakingly tragic— news stories as evidence of some compelling new insight which you alone have the grace to freshly comprehend.

But the rest of the world, even as it embraces modernity fitfully, wonders why it didn't have your attention, and America's, long ago.

I bungled the similarly thing, but you see where it was headed. Right? Sure.

Here's a fun thing for immigration.

Seekers! Is this not a great 'graph?

We face not an esoteric intellectual but a full-fledged sociological problem in the greater Middle East, one having mainly to do with the stresses of modernization on traditional and, in many cases, still largely tribally structured societies. There is a vicious civilizational churning going on in the region that divides societies against themselves and happens to spatter blood beyond as well as within its borders. It sometimes does so here in the United States through the actions of immigrants from the region who have brought the churn with them—the Tsarnaev brothers and now Omar Mateen are obvious cases in point, as was Nidal Hasan of the 2009 Fort Hood shootings.

> It's the ideology that
> is pernicious.

And this passage:

Please try to remember all this the next time you hear someone call for a “war of ideas” against Islamist “ideology.” That person does not know what he or she is talking about; that person is, in fact, making a category error that comes from absentmindedly projecting his or her own frames of reference onto others where they just don’t belong. That person could be an American politician, but ah, I—channeling Mark Twain, of course—repeat myself.

Crid, you -- weirdly -- have no interest in reading in or learning about Islam; you restrict yourself to mocking the results of years of my reading in it and about it. Keep up the great work!

A tweet:

https://twitter.com/amyalkon/status/743781863366373376

Not using WORDS to note the obvious and try and separate the "problem" (large but small %) from the "not a problem" (much larger) just makes the problem larger (see Brussels).

In general, we Americans are problem-solvers. The first thing you do to solve a problem is to define terms (x, y, and z) and set limits. (I want to kill my weeds not my grass. What do I buy.)

You and Amy are saying the same thing. We need to focus our attention on the asshats (large number but small % overall) that are following word for word their teachings (they are written down and the asshats keep shouting them out loud as they kill). There are a LOT of 'followers' not doing this so that reduces the set of outliers we need to look at.

Our gov't is focusing on what TYPE OF WEAPON was used by a guy that called a TV station to make sure they got his cause right. Boy, that's gonna make a difference.

(Loved the Paris video of the shooters getting out of the car and walking around unconcerned because they had guns and no one else did. Alfred E. Neuman at work.)

You both are right. Our gov't (Obama specifically) is not interested in "solving" this problem. (Look over THERE at the red flag thingy.) No idea why.

"Crid, you -- weirdly -- have no interest in reading in or learning about Islam; you restrict yourself to mocking the results of years of my reading in it and about it. Keep up the great work!"

He doesn't need to, he already knows far more about the hundreds of different cultures that practice Islam in all its myriad forms, than you do, by a factor of fifty.

Being a third hand source of quotes from a thousand year old book, that most of it's adherents can't even read, is not *learning or knowing about Islam*

He states our obvious set point for discussing the problem but is ignored. LOL.

http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/bill-maher-absolutely-crushes-charlie-rose-for-comparing-islam-to-christianity/

" a thousand year old book, that most of it's adherents can't even read, is not *learning or knowing about Islam*"

Stop coddling the illiterates. It's not my responsibility to understand a religion whose adherents refuse to take the time to understand themselves.

One of the reasons I rejected my Catholic upbringing was the insistence that I was too stupid to understand the teachings of Christ without a pedophile in a dress handing out the knowledge.

These suicide-bombing goatherders can do the same.

Say, Gog, would you do me a favor and explain why, IIRC, Catholics are not required to study the Bible and Protestants are? Thanks.

Lenona I don't know why Protestants are required to study the bible (in fact I know a number of Protestants who never read more than a few passages). Like I said, I was raised Catholic, so maybe someone raised Methodist or something can explain their experience?

Amy, I know more about Islam than you do.

Schoolchildren know more about Islam than you do.

No affectation of peculiarity can conceal a commonplace mind.

—
W. Somerset Maugham

Amy, I know more about Islam than you do.

Schoolchildren know more about Islam than you do.

No affectation of peculiarity can
conceal a commonplace mind.

—W. Somerset Maugham

Well hell Crid.

If we can't ask if the Mosque the shooter attended taught that homos should be killed then how can we learn what's important knowledge TODAY versus old not relevant knowledge.

Did he attend the speech given by the Mullah that believes gays should be killed? I don't know.

Take their word for it? Obama's reluctance to say Christian w/o using Crusade gives me pause to believe he doesn't have a agenda.

Educate me Crid. People are dying but it's not a Islamic thingy (work place violence, gay hate, "they made me do it 'cause they gave me a baby shower").

Hell, unless they are White Supremists I can't even profile 'em (you know the guys that clap when someone says "Death to gays!").

No one is ever going to stop you from thinking about the things you read in the most shallow, twitchy, short-sighted and narrowly-informed manner of a hillbilly.

Additionally, no one's going to stop Amy from walking around in Mommy's high heals and taunting others for being poorly dressed for an elegant tea party, but grown-ups need not take offense.

Read the motherfucking comments, follow the motherfucking links. If you don't make the time, or have the concentration, no tears. Okay? Meanwhile, this is the first time I've heard of a mosque, or a baby shower, in discussion of this story.

You think you're being clear. I think you're muddled as Hell. It's pissing me off.

Is it the radicalization of Islam or the Islamization of radicalism?

"But what if the real issue is that nihilistic misfits and violent malcontents in the West turn to Islamic State simply because it is the most obvious foe of the system? What if Islamic State, with its “Call of Duty” style propaganda, merely harnesses the fury that it didn’t create—the kind of fury that sparked the 2011 massacre by a right-wing gunman in Norway and multiple mass shootings by non-Muslims in the U.S.?"

"In this case, the prescription would be far more complicated—focusing, above all, on the destruction of Islamic State’s allure, the aura of invincibility that allows it to motivate new “lone wolf” attacks and draw actual recruits."

The reality is that it's probably a bit of both. We'll need a solution that takes into account more than a few cherry-picked selections from Islamic scripture used to demonize Islam. We're in for a long struggle, one we have to win. Civilization must win this. And it will need Christian allies, Jewish allies, and even Muslim allies to win.

Since the article defaulted to a sign-in page, here are some more excerpts:

There are radicals who simply look for an ideology and only find one. But at the same time, all those who are radicalized share the same ideology, which is why we have to take its content and its sources seriously,” said Guido Steinberg, a former counterterrorism adviser to the German government and a scholar at the German Institute for International and Security Affairs.

AND

ISIS is a new cult. It’s like a doomsday church. And whether they are Muslims or not Muslims, those who join it undergo a conversion,” said Jean-Pierre Filiu, a professor of Middle East studies at Sciences Po university in Paris and a former diplomatic adviser to the French prime minister. And, as befits a cult, Islamic State also excommunicates almost all Muslims who don't follow its particular brand of the faith.

AND

In this logic, conventional ways of countering Islamic State—such as Western governments’ social-media campaigns that show it as wicked and ruthless against fellow Muslims—can actually backfire by making the group more alluring to sociopaths looking for a cause.

After all, the group’s very appeal, particularly to so-called “lone wolves,” lies in that it is widely perceived to be particularly “bad ass,” said Daniel Byman, a counterterrorism expert at the Brookings Institution in Washington.

Part of the reason ISIS is so successful is because it is so successful. Puncturing its image of success is going to be very important,” Mr. Byman said.

That puncturing is already under way. Two years since the U.S. began its military campaign against the group, Islamic State has receded from parts of Syria and Iraq, and recently lost ground in the Libyan port city of Sirte.

AND

And while in Iraq and Syria Islamic State, also known as ISIS, draws on local Sunni grievances, in the West it attracts a very different crowd. Roughly one-quarter of its recruits in Europe are converts from non-Muslim backgrounds. Many of those born to Muslim parents don’t come from observant families.

The New York-born Orlando shooter fits this profile: People who knew him said he drank alcohol and he took a picture with his wife while her hair was uncovered in public—something that a conservative Muslim would never do.

In The Observer 4/22/16: Why Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s Criticism of Islam Angers Western Liberals

Ms. Hirsi Ali warns against use of the words “extreme” and “radical” to describe as peripheral an ideology which, she argues, is in fact quite prevalent in Muslim communities around the globe, and which leads easily to violence—whether in the form of female genital mutilation or honor killings or wife-beating or suicide bombings. She views the reliance on those words as self-delusion, a soothing, self-administered palliative whose effect is to mask evidence that violence is the largely natural extension of fundamentalist values sternly dictated and widely embraced in Muslim communities—values that encourage harsh treatment of women and strict, even brutal, punishment of non-believers. Her warnings, and those of others who risk their reputations and lives to criticize Islamic institutions, are distinctly unwelcome in many Western quarters, where they are regarded as grievously politically incorrect, and where the “few-bad-apples” narrative of Islamic extremism is vastly preferred.

@ Crid's link to the American Thinker piece.

Adam Garfinkle's essay was erudite, but not persuasive. And over long at that.
Ok. Mateen wasn't an Arab, he was Persian- 6 paragraphs
Islamist supremism. That’s a new one on me. Helps explain a lot.
Tribalists can’t get along so when they get here they slaughter their hosts. (Notice he admits they do slaughter based on their creed.) And they are very theological, not ideological. (Point against you, Crid)
To dodge the obvious conclusion, Garfinkle falls back on “socialization” as any good lefty would. Mateen learned to hate America at his Daddy’s knee. And he learned to hate himself because his Mommy told him wanking was a sin – 7 paragraphs on that, plus 5 more on conflicting homosexuality. (Garfinkle should just please throw away his “Hooked on Freud” CDs.)
Fact is we don’t have nor want the centuries it will take for these tribes to catch up. And, based on their behavior, we could wait a long, long time.

If Muslims don't want to be associated with terrorism, then they have to have more of this --

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/14/living/orlando-muslims-statement/

Every single act needs to be disavowed, every "nominal Muslim" smeared with derision for dragging Islam through the mud. Because the attempts of terrorists to justify and sanctify their actions have gone largely without comment. I honestly think the imams across America and the globe should come together and make a stand, a broadcasted coordinated effort to once and for all disassociate extremist views from peaceable Muslim culture.

Otherwise, the relatively quiet response to attacks seems more like quiet acceptance of the act. I don't believe they intend it to be this way. But they must organize and must make their very strong sentiments widely known to all who would join the extremist cause.

I'm not about to defend Islam as a whole, but in the meantime, I don't think it's safe to ignore non-Muslim Americans like this:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/people/kevin-swanson

"Sam Rohrer Ties Orlando Massacre To Gay Rights Victories: God Has 'Removed His Hand Of Protection'"
Submitted by Miranda Blue on Thursday, 6/16/2016 11:19 am

"Far-Right Pundit (Timothy Buchanan): Gays Provoked Orlando Massacre, Should Go Back In The Closet"
Submitted by Brian Tashman on Wednesday, 6/15/2016 10:50 am

"Glenn Beck Conveniently Forgets To Mention That Ted Cruz Cozied Up To 'Kill The Gays' Preacher" (Kevin Swanson)
SUBMITTED BY: Kyle Mantyla, Wednesday 06/15/2016, 2:46pm

"Pat Robertson: Gays & Islamists Are Allies So 'Let Them Kill Themselves'"
6/14/16 @ 11:40am

"Ted Cruz, Who Attended Event Calling For Gays To Be Put To Death, Delivers Characteristically Smug Response To Orlando Attack"
SUBMITTED BY: Brian Tashman, Monday 06/13/2016, 2:00pm

"Anti-LGBT Pastor Steven Anderson Applauds Orlando Massacre: 'There's Fifty Less Pedophiles In The World'"
6/13/16 @ 11:45am

And, from 2015:

"Religious Right Pundit Regrets GOP Candidates Appeared At 'Kill-The-Gays' Rally"
Submitted by Brian Tashman on Thursday, 11/12/2015 12:20 pm

First half:

"If only somebody had warned them!

"Or so writes Michael Brown, the Religious Right radio host who, in a BarbWire column today, says that Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee and Bobby Jindal should not have appeared at a conference last week that was organized by radical activist Kevin Swanson, who advocates that the government execute gay people.

"Swanson closed his National Religious Liberties Conference, which was attended by the three Republican presidential candidates, by explaining that the government should only execute gay people once they have enough time to repent. The summit also included two other speakers who want the government to treat homosexuality as a capital crime, one of whom distributed a pamphlet at the conference justifying such executions.

"Responding to Rachel Maddow’s coverage of the event, Brown writes that the candidates must have been in the dark about Swanson’s extremist views, and that had they known, the Republican presidential candidates would have denounced him and rejected the invitation: '[T]he presidential candidates who attended this rally (Bobby Jindal, Mike Huckabee, and Ted Cruz) were there to identify with the cause of religious liberty, and they too would categorically reject some of the words spoken at the conference (as well as reject some of the positions advocated by at least one of the speakers outside of the conference).'

"It’s not as if Swanson’s views weren’t very easy to find..."

(snip)

I'm not about to defend Islam as a whole, but in the meantime, I don't think it's safe to ignore non-Muslim Americans like this:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/people/kevin-swanson

"Sam Rohrer Ties Orlando Massacre To Gay Rights Victories: God Has 'Removed His Hand Of Protection'"
Submitted by Miranda Blue on Thursday, 6/16/2016 11:19 am

"Far-Right Pundit (Timothy Buchanan): Gays Provoked Orlando Massacre, Should Go Back In The Closet"
Submitted by Brian Tashman on Wednesday, 6/15/2016 10:50 am

"Glenn Beck Conveniently Forgets To Mention That Ted Cruz Cozied Up To 'Kill The Gays' Preacher" (Kevin Swanson)
SUBMITTED BY: Kyle Mantyla, Wednesday 06/15/2016, 2:46pm

"Pat Robertson: Gays & Islamists Are Allies So 'Let Them Kill Themselves'"
6/14/16 @ 11:40am

"Ted Cruz, Who Attended Event Calling For Gays To Be Put To Death, Delivers Characteristically Smug Response To Orlando Attack"
SUBMITTED BY: Brian Tashman, Monday 06/13/2016, 2:00pm

"Anti-LGBT Pastor Steven Anderson Applauds Orlando Massacre: 'There's Fifty Less Pedophiles In The World'"
6/13/16 @ 11:45am

And, from 2015:

"Religious Right Pundit Regrets GOP Candidates Appeared At 'Kill-The-Gays' Rally"
Submitted by Brian Tashman on Thursday, 11/12/2015 12:20 pm

First half:

"If only somebody had warned them!

"Or so writes Michael Brown, the Religious Right radio host who, in a BarbWire column today, says that Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee and Bobby Jindal should not have appeared at a conference last week that was organized by radical activist Kevin Swanson, who advocates that the government execute gay people.

"Swanson closed his National Religious Liberties Conference, which was attended by the three Republican presidential candidates, by explaining that the government should only execute gay people once they have enough time to repent. The summit also included two other speakers who want the government to treat homosexuality as a capital crime, one of whom distributed a pamphlet at the conference justifying such executions.

"Responding to Rachel Maddow’s coverage of the event, Brown writes that the candidates must have been in the dark about Swanson’s extremist views, and that had they known, the Republican presidential candidates would have denounced him and rejected the invitation: '[T]he presidential candidates who attended this rally (Bobby Jindal, Mike Huckabee, and Ted Cruz) were there to identify with the cause of religious liberty, and they too would categorically reject some of the words spoken at the conference (as well as reject some of the positions advocated by at least one of the speakers outside of the conference).'

"It’s not as if Swanson’s views weren’t very easy to find..."

(snip)

I'm not about to defend Islam as a whole, but in the meantime, I don't think it's safe to ignore non-Muslim Americans like this:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/people/kevin-swanson

"Sam Rohrer Ties Orlando Massacre To Gay Rights Victories: God Has 'Removed His Hand Of Protection'"
Submitted by Miranda Blue on Thursday, 6/16/2016 11:19 am

"Far-Right Pundit (Timothy Buchanan): Gays Provoked Orlando Massacre, Should Go Back In The Closet"
Submitted by Brian Tashman on Wednesday, 6/15/2016 10:50 am

"Glenn Beck Conveniently Forgets To Mention That Ted Cruz Cozied Up To 'Kill The Gays' Preacher" (Kevin Swanson)
SUBMITTED BY: Kyle Mantyla, Wednesday 06/15/2016, 2:46pm

"Pat Robertson: Gays & Islamists Are Allies So 'Let Them Kill Themselves'"
6/14/16 @ 11:40am

"Ted Cruz, Who Attended Event Calling For Gays To Be Put To Death, Delivers Characteristically Smug Response To Orlando Attack"
SUBMITTED BY: Brian Tashman, Monday 06/13/2016, 2:00pm

"Anti-LGBT Pastor Steven Anderson Applauds Orlando Massacre: 'There's Fifty Less Pedophiles In The World'"
6/13/16 @ 11:45am

And, from 2015:

"Religious Right Pundit Regrets GOP Candidates Appeared At 'Kill-The-Gays' Rally"
Submitted by Brian Tashman on Thursday, 11/12/2015 12:20 pm

First half:

"If only somebody had warned them!

"Or so writes Michael Brown, the Religious Right radio host who, in a BarbWire column today, says that Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee and Bobby Jindal should not have appeared at a conference last week that was organized by radical activist Kevin Swanson, who advocates that the government execute gay people.

"Swanson closed his National Religious Liberties Conference, which was attended by the three Republican presidential candidates, by explaining that the government should only execute gay people once they have enough time to repent. The summit also included two other speakers who want the government to treat homosexuality as a capital crime, one of whom distributed a pamphlet at the conference justifying such executions.

"Responding to Rachel Maddow’s coverage of the event, Brown writes that the candidates must have been in the dark about Swanson’s extremist views, and that had they known, the Republican presidential candidates would have denounced him and rejected the invitation: '[T]he presidential candidates who attended this rally (Bobby Jindal, Mike Huckabee, and Ted Cruz) were there to identify with the cause of religious liberty, and they too would categorically reject some of the words spoken at the conference (as well as reject some of the positions advocated by at least one of the speakers outside of the conference).'

"It’s not as if Swanson’s views weren’t very easy to find..."

(snip)

My apologies for the multiple posts.

> And they are very theological,
> not ideological. (Point against
> you, Crid)

When did I ever say their theology wasn't theological? Seriously. This is fucking illiteracy. Point against your anus, Muffin.

It's very difficult to share courtesy with squirtwad whinybots who don't know how to read.

'Cause look, if you're going to disagree with someone here, why not go that extra mile and disagree with what they actually say, instead of disagreeing with all the inarticulate emotions that flood your dear, dear heart in the minutes after you've read it?

That would be great. If would give people the sense of actually participating.

> And they are very theological,
> not ideological. (Point against
> you, Crid)

When did I ever say their theology wasn't theological? Seriously. This is fucking illiteracy. Point against your anus, Muffin.

Crid at June 18, 2016 11:07 AM

Let me see if I can explain this Canvasback.

Myself, Crid, Conan, and other thinking individuals have time, and time again, conceded that all or most of the terrorists attacks reported in the news media have been committed by indivuals who represent themselves as Muslim.

This is a given.

The question has always been: so what is the connection between Islam and terrorism?

Is it the driver and the motivator, or is it just a common factor, or an excuse to do violence, like a religious version of soccer hooligans?

We have pointed out, that Islam, as primative as it may be, as it practiced by illiterate people from violent shame/honor cultures, is not the driver here.

Culture is. Religion is downstream from culture. I.e. It is culture that drives both values, and religious interpretations, including the interpretation of the Koran (Amy's root of all evil)

Christians, not so long ago were burning witches at the stake.
Because their values and culture approved of violent punishment for violation of cultural norms, which made them believe that death was an appropriate punishment for witchcraft. The fact the the bible said "thou shal not suffer a witch to live " was just gravy.

It is important that the religious texts agree with the sentiments of the people. If not, guess what gets changed? Hint: it isn't the *values* of the people.

We pointed, unconvincingly it seems, (to the rabid anti Muslim screening hordes who seem to have all been born yesterday) to another Asian religion, Shinto, which was practiced by a culture that literally killed millions, in its pursuit of a global empire, only to be stomped completely out in 20 years as a threat.... NOT by burning books, OR banning the religion, OR waving protest banners OR by encouraging non violent Shinto practioners to stand up to people who were willing and able to cut their heads off, OR by blaming the religion for the actions of evil and mentally ill individuals.

How did we do it?
By almost totally Americanizing and transforming a warrior culture. Into a quaint toothless relic of its former self. (And killing off more than half of the warrior caste and most of their leadership)

What we needed to do, as a country, to keep a lid on Isis and discourage terrorism, was to maintain enough of a military presence in the Middle East to stop them from organizing and gaining access to resources, and recruits, and international media which portrays them as *winning*

We failed to do that, and now you hyperventilating fools want to sit there with your thumbs up your asses, and scream about Islam.

Why Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s Criticism of Islam Angers Western Liberals

Yeah, but people like crid whant to know what Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s credentials are for criticizing muslims

Boy, you offer a mild critique of a think piece and Isab calls you a hyperventilating fool and Crid wants to point things at your anus.
They sound like true believers in that Islam is not the problem. It’s history, geography, culture, tribalism, primitivism, feng shui or bad sushi; anything but the pure religion of Islam.
These few bad actors are apparently just illiterate factionalists, much like our own inner city youth. Of course our gangsters don’t shout allegiance to Adam Smith before they open fire.

Try this one:
In the Islamic World, from Algeria to Indonesia, especially in those places where Islam is hard-wired into the law, a lot of them take it as competition and virtue-signalling to display their bona-fides. It's a short path from there to extremism.

"Mild" except you were the one who first talked about "points," and you did so inanely. On this topic for this blog, there's no reason not to get pissy when those who demonstrate so little knowledge of the topic (or much of anything) make it so piddling and personal with such reflexes.

> They sound like

Yesyesyes, it's always some smoky corruption of what I've actually said, or the emotional reaction to it, and never a direct quote (and certainly never actually data about the enormous number of people in the religion).

> In the Islamic World, from Algeria
> to Indonesia, especially in those
> places....

No. You are not that worldly. You've made no survey of the faith worth describing. To imagine that your casually fearful daydreams describe something novel about the faith isn't learnedness about "the pure religion of Islam," it's just bad dancing.

And whaddya know, another example: Lookipiddledick pretends that at some point I've asked for AHA's "credentials are for criticizing muslims."

You'll notice there is no quotation. What I've said is, paraphrasing: Her power as a celebrity outpaces her worth to me as an authority. Piddle can't tell the difference. Almost no one else takes the time, either.

You guys are on autopilot.

Listen, no serious student of religion —certainly none discussing the violently devout— cooks up a passage like:

> a lot of them take it as competition
> and virtue-signalling to display their
> bona-fides. It's a short path from
> there to extremism.

I wonder what apologists tend to say whenever it's pointed out that "honor killings" (one recent one was committed by the MOTHER of the young Pakistani woman, who was pregnant), cannot be blamed on, say, any non-Muslim country's foreign policies. Not to mention that it's pretty hard to think of any other religion that more or less allows/encourages its leaders to look the other way when such murders happen.

In the same vein, while FGM predates Islam and is not encouraged in the Koran - it's barely even mentioned, IIRC - and some Jews and Christians practice it as well (most FGM is committed in Saharan and western Africa), the Koran makes it pretty easy to justify keeping it legal.

More on the geography:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/oct/02/reza-aslan/fact-checking-reza-aslans-retort-bill-maher/

[Crid:] Amy, I know more about Islam than you do.

From what I have read, Crid, you know approximately the square root of fox alpha. You don't understand the religion, its precepts, or why Islamic countries are so much different than the rest of the world.

This should help.

How's the Ramadan Bombathon going?

Terror in the name of Islam: 122 attacks for 938 kills.

All other religions combined: 0 for 0.

Islamophobes: 0 for 0.

BTW, a half dozen "refugees" were arrested a couple weeks ago for planning to detonate some bombs in Düsseldorf's Altstadt, then start shooting people in the ensuing confusion.

That's a 15 minute walk from where I live.

Yeah, Islam is just peachy.