I have no problems paying reparations so long as those asking me to do so first do four things

1. Ask for and receive reparations from the descendants of Africans who sold their ancestors into slavery

2. Ask for and receive reparations from the descendants of Arabs who started the African slave trade and introduced it to the Europeans

3. Ask for and receive reparations from the Catholic Church for making slavery a primarily racial thing in the west

4. Surrender their American citizenship and move back to Africa as the US is apparently to racist a country to live in.

After they do this I am more than willing to give them some of my money

If $25 million won't absolve your "guilt", how will my paltry few hundred/thousand dollars? What he is really saying is that once you agree to pay anything at all, you are agreeing to pay forever. This will include your children and their children and so on. It's like paying a blackmailer, once they know you will pay, you will never be free. This goes back to the concept of unearned power Amy has blogged about in the past. It's not about the money, it's about the power.

Something something about a "danegeld"?

Didn't know the term:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danegeld

The Danegeld (/ˈdeɪn.ɡɛld/; "Danish tax", literally "Dane tribute") was a tax raised to pay tribute to the Viking raiders to save a land from being ravaged. It was called the geld or gafol in eleventh-century sources.

The problem with paying danegeld is that the Dane comes back and asks for more. Tho I suspect that more than one princeling paid the danegeld and then encouraged the Dane to attack his rivals.

Oh, and I would add one more condition to lujlp's excellent list: the recipient of reparations would have to deposit their money into a bank in the sub-Saharan west African nation of choice and leave it there for a period of no less than 10 years. So they can see what actual corruption looks like, as the local government taxes the bat snot out of their reparations.

Also, keeps them from taking their new found citizenship and moving to a more...cosmopolitan location.

A basic principle of modern Western law is that children are not responsible for crimes committed by their parents. Historically this has not been true. I was just reading last week about the English practice of "attainder", wherein legislation is enacted that declares an unwanted citizen to be "corrupt of blood." Not only does that person's life, liberty and property become forfeit, because it is a "blood" corruption, it passes up and down the line; that person's parents and children can also be stripped of their savings, their freedom, and their lives. I knew that the U.S. Constitution contains a provision that prohibits "bills of attainder", but until I read that, I never really realized the impact.

http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/dane_geld.html

Once you've paid the Danegeld, you'll never be rid of the Dane. But Kipling says it so much better.

Everyone beat me to the Kipling poem, but it is spot-on.

But it gives the opportunity for the second-oldest poetry joke there is.

Young man to you lady - Do you like Kipling?

Young lady to young man - I don't know. I've never Kippled.

llater,

llamas

I'll see your Kipling and raise you Robert Goodloe Harper:

Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute.

Teach a man to fish and he eats everyday.

Give a man a fish and he knows where to go for free fish.

So an issue that is not completely black white is turned black/white.
I'd add a few questions to llamas.
What about an African American who never had any ancestors who were slaves, we have African refugees that arrived yesterday, how much reparations should they receive?
What about those who have both slave and slave owner ancestry? What % of each before you "break even" and don't pay out/receive any reparations.

The hell of it is Dyson thinks he's being rational. That helps him sell this idea to more people. Then when it doesn't happen they think they have another grievance.
He shouldn't get their hopes up this way.

@Joe J - not quite sure why you are pointing the question at me, but no matter, because my answer is simple - nobody should get any 'reparations', that has not suffered a direct and quantifiable loss. Allegations of some sort of debt owed by one group to another group, which cannot be quantified to the acts of individuals, are by definition inequitable.

Besides, claims for 'reparations' are always based on economic arguments, as though those doing the claiming would not be in the generally-less-fortunate position they are had their long-ago ancestors not suffered the various harms for which they now claim redresses. But after almost 200 years, the correlations are more and more tenuous - as Ben Shapiro sometimes observes, how does the fact that your great, great, great-grandfather was held in bondage explain the fact that you flunked out of high school, then got your GF pregnant and bailed on her? There comes a time when your situation is the result of what you did, not what was done to your forebears.

llater,

llamas

@Joe J - not quite sure why you are pointing the question at me, but no matter, because my answer is simple - nobody should get any 'reparations', that has not suffered a direct and quantifiable loss. Allegations of some sort of debt owed by one group to another group, which cannot be quantified to the acts of individuals, are by definition inequitable.

Besides, claims for 'reparations' are always based on economic arguments, as though those doing the claiming would not be in the generally-less-fortunate position they are had their long-ago ancestors not suffered the various harms for which they now claim redresses. But after almost 200 years, the correlations are more and more tenuous - as Ben Shapiro sometimes observes, how does the fact that your great, great, great-grandfather was held in bondage explain the fact that you flunked out of high school, then got your GF pregnant and bailed on her? There comes a time when your situation is the result of what you did, not what was done to your forebears.

llater,

llamas

llamas:

From "International House" (1933)

(not verbatim, I think)

Franklin Pangborn: Have you read Kipling?

Gracie Allen: No...I like his herring, though!

I find it amazing just how blatantly racist the proposal is and neither the interviewer or interviewee seem to have noted that. After all Dyson is simply proposing a (voluntary) tax based purely on skin color. Too pale you pay x amount. Too dark you get y amount.

I also note that Cox believes the government should handle things like this. She doesn't want to pay herself. Instead she wants 'somebody else' to take care of it. Someone should tell her that she is the type of person the government will go to in order to get the money to pay this benefit. While also taking a small cut for administrative purposes at the same time.

In the same spirit I would like to propose a tax to support engineers. After all I think engineers are wonderful people (I even became one). So everyone should pay a small 0.5% tax to the government and they can send it out to all engineers in the US. I and my fellow degree holders will thank the rest of your for your generous contribution. And by no means will we call you suckers to your face.

"@Joe J - not quite sure why you are pointing the question at me"

Sorry, I meant add to the list by lujlp.
Not targeted at you.

If we are going to inherit guilt, it should be kept in mind that every single person has ancestors who owned slaves (yes, even in Africa people had slaves) or were slaves (the Irish enslaved the English and vice-versa, whenever they could back in pre-modern times), who were part of a pillaging army or who stole or murdered or raped. No one is free of stigma if this concept is embraced.
AND the US has paid trillions in reparations: affirmative action, preferential hiring, welfare, fighting the Civil War (no points for that?). Even if I were guilty I would say the debt is paid now.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world continues to move forward apace.

reparations?

How about we start with the "black" community and all those race hustlers pay reparations to that white guy and his family in Chicago who was tortured by BLACKS because he was white?

How about that?

Yea, crickets. just as I thought.

These [are] for white guilt assuagement. Yes, he's looking for white people to set up "individual reparations accounts."

Leave aside all the many practical and moral objections.

Dyson has a far worse problem on his hands. Assume some reparations amount, and that it is paid in full.

Anyone think that will solve the problems in the black community? Is that a big NO I'm hearing? Why, yes, and no surprise.

In early 21st century America, virtually all whites feel badly for the way blacks have been done down until very recently. That nagging guilt can be counted upon for all kinds of compensatory favors -- as well it should.

Having paid the reparation, though, whites will have instantly completely run out of fucks to give.

Making this a perfect example of it being best to be careful what you ask for, in case you get it.

On slavery...

...and "reparations".

Apparently, I owe somebody for something I never did, but other people don't owe me anything for things they have done.

And are doing.

I have a better idea, since I've now seen what Dyson looks like on Twitter. Why doesn't he set up an individual reparations account on behalf of all of us who maintain a normal body weight?

Why should the rest of us have to pay more for health insurance because his fat ass wants to eat everything he wants?

"In early 21st century America, virtually all whites feel badly for the way blacks have been done down until very recently. That nagging guilt can be counted upon for all kinds of compensatory favors -- as well it should.

Having paid the reparation, though, whites will have instantly completely run out of fucks to give."

I'd say the election of Obama paid down most of those fucks. When the president of the US who is often called the most powerful man in the world, the head of the DOJ, the head of blah blah blah are all considered 'oppressed' and 'lacking privilege' but some white hillbilly getting high on meth out in bumfarkastan is 'privileged' the cognitive dissonance gets too loud to be ignored.

I've actually seen this in my personal life. A number of my black friends complained about how white people changed after Obama got elected.

Maybe if we elected a black President he'd get 'er done.

Ben: "I'd say the election of Obama paid down most of those fucks."

I agree! with Obama's election (twice!) we have paid that promissory note and owe not one dime more. not one!

In fact, some blacks owe ME for every time they have accused me of being a bigot with no evidence of it.

"Anyone think that will solve the problems in the black community? Is that a big NO I'm hearing? Why, yes, and no surprise."

Two decades ago, the state of Alabama decided, in its infinite wisdom, that it needed to give special grants to its historically black colleges, after activists sufficiently badgered the Legislature about it. What did our local historically black college do with that money? Did they use it to do needed facility upgrades? Did they set up scholarships for disadvantaged students? Did they buy more textbooks and lab supplies?

Why, no. They used the money to build a new football stadium.