How To Talk To A Fanatic
As an author of books on manners -- most recently the science-based "Good Manners for Nice People Who Sometimes Say F*ck" -- I've gone on a number of radio shows to give advice on how to talk at dinner with people with whom you have political differences.
My answer, in short, is don't. You will not change one person's mind.
I should mention that I'm usually asked this about people having Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner with people who are, um, politically eeeevil -- which is to say those who have a different political orientation than the person asking the question.
David Brooks also answered this question in The New York Times -- with the words of Stephen Carter:
You're not going to change these people's minds anyway. If you give them an opening, you're just going to give them room to destroy the decent etiquette of society. Civility is not a suicide pact. As Benjamin DeMott put it in a famous 1996 essay for the Nation, "When you're in an argument with a thug, there are things much more important than civility."And yet the more I think about it, the more I agree with the argument Yale Law professor Stephen L. Carter made in his 1998 book "Civility." The only way to confront fanaticism is with love, he said. Ask the fanatics genuine questions. Paraphrase what they say so they know they've been heard. Show some ultimate care for their destiny and soul even if you detest the words that come out of their mouths.
You engage fanaticism with love, first, for your own sake. If you succumb to the natural temptation to greet this anger with your own anger, you'll just spend your days consumed by bitterness and revenge. You'll be a worse person in all ways.
If, on the other hand, you fight your natural fight instinct, your natural tendency to use the rhetoric of silencing, and instead regard this person as one who is, in his twisted way, bringing you gifts, then you'll defeat a dark passion and replace it with a better passion. You'll teach the world something about you by the way you listen. You may even learn something; a person doesn't have to be right to teach you some of the ways you are wrong.
via @TerryTeachout








Okay, I'm confused: Is laughter still okay?
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at October 24, 2017 4:18 AM
Keep your humor off my uterus, you racist!
I R A Darth Aggie at October 24, 2017 5:58 AM
As late as only a few years ago my friends and coworkers and I used to debate politics all the time. We were civil to each other, respected each other's difference of opinion, and enjoyed the give-and-take.
With people I've met lately, I've noticed that anyone with whom I disagree politically, takes my disagreement as a personal insult. As if, my not agreeing with them is equivalent to insulting their children. My more recent friends and I don't debate politics or much of anything. I keep everything on an even keel. Politics is personal to them.
The intolerance really seemed to gain traction with the McCain-Obama election cycle. Liberal coworkers expressed surprise that anyone could support a ticket with "that woman" on it. When I explained that, of the four candidates in that race, only "that woman" had ever run anything, private or public, they countered with sputtering condescension. The Chosen One was in the race and any who did not support him was unworthy.
Then the Right joined in and instead of a defense of tradition and arguments against identity politics and PC, we got Richard Spencer and the Klan.
And it's only getting worse.
Everyone is a fanatic these days.
Conan the Grammarian at October 24, 2017 6:14 AM
By the way, I hate paywalls. And linking to articles hidden behind them is annoying. Not the linking, the paywall itself.
Still, you did provide a long quote, so we do get the gist of the article. However, to read it all myself is not possible, unless I subscribe.
With paper, I can buy one edition at any newsstand. Why can't someone come up with a digital model for that?
The companies do it themselves on social media. I'll get a notification about an article in the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal, from the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal, click the link and be greeted by a paywall. It's your own goddamned link. At least let the people following you on Twitter or Facebook read the article you're promoting.
It seems everything is going behind a pay wall or subscription model these days. I wanted to catch Season 7 of GoT but I don't have HBO. No problem. After all, I caught the first 6 seasons on Amazon Prime by buying/renting the entire season and watching while on the treadmill. One episode per each one hour workout. No longer. Now, to watch an HBO show on Amazon Prime, I have to subscribe to an HBO package through Amazon. Same with the BBC if I want to watch programs from PBS on Amazon. So, I'll have to pay $8 a month for Amazon, $14 a month for HBO, and $14 a month for the Beeb.
Or I could buy the DVDs, but the DVD doesn't play on my iPad while I'm on the treadmill. Maddeningly inconvenient.
/rant
Conan the Grammarian at October 24, 2017 6:39 AM
Or you can go to the dark, dusty corners of the interwebs with a trusty VPN and find freshly ripped copies of those shows.
Not that I've ever done anything like that, no sir, I know nothink!
I R A Darth Aggie at October 24, 2017 8:08 AM
Let them rant a bit about whatever 'issue' is bugging them and then ask the forbidden question:
"What are you doing to change that?".
Good times. Good times!!
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at October 24, 2017 10:09 AM
You can read paywalled articles from the WSJ by using the archive.is website.
Sixclaws at October 24, 2017 10:11 AM
Counter any offensive joke someone tells with a joke about a group THEY identify with. If they get huffy, you say, "It's just a joke! I thought we were all sharing jokes!"
The family my SIL married into loves to tell racist jokes. They do not appreciate Catholic/priest/nun jokes, however.
sofar at October 24, 2017 11:03 AM
Thanks, Six. That worked.
Conan the Grammarian at October 24, 2017 11:22 AM
I used to know a monsignor who told Irish jokes, Catholic jokes, and Jesus jokes - sometimes all at once and often during his sermon.
None of them were offensive and his congregation loved him.
Conan the Grammarian at October 24, 2017 11:27 AM
@conan I learned my arsenal from my Irish-Catholic family. All are offensive and the arsenal grew significantly during the priest scandal. If I told an offensive Catholic joke, my dad and uncles would enter a fierce competition to top it.
SIL's family's is, shall we say, a bit more devout and has a priest and several nuns in the family. They do very much like jokes about others, but not at their own expense, it seems, making it all the more fun.
sofar at October 24, 2017 11:59 AM
I remember trading Jesus jokes back and forth with a pastor we had once, in between services. They were the mild kind, with punchlines like:
- Did you come here to play golf or just show off?
- Who does he think he is, Jesus Christ? No, He thinks He's Arnold Palmer.
I don't think the really sacrilegious kind would have gone over all that well, though.
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at October 24, 2017 12:42 PM
Since we are off-topic with "offensive" jokes I'll share a joke that one of my Irish (as in Ireland-born and raised; NOT Irish American) friends told me.
It take place back in the days of "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland. Two men see a stranger in their neighborhood and want to know who he is and what he is doing in their neighborhood (surely looking for trouble or trying to avoid trouble). So, they start by asking him if he is Protestant or Catholic. He looks at them and states that he is Jewish.
The two men look at each other with a quizzical look not sure what to make of this stranger until one of them then asks the man: "well, okay. But are you a Catholic Jew or a Protestant Jew?"
So, I guess the joke isn't off topic after all; fanatics of any sort can't see reason.
charles at October 24, 2017 2:10 PM
That's a good lesson for the two feuding politicians @SenBobCorker and @realDonaldTrump. They should knock it off and get to work on tax reform.
My tweet to that effect.
(I'm sure Crid will come along and tell me there is no hope for Trump being more civil, but as a bonus, I did properly finger the two of them as morons in my tweet, in this case.)
mpetrie98 at October 24, 2017 2:50 PM
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