Often, You Can Choose Not To Be A Victim Simply By Acting Like The Antithesis Of A Victim
Laura Kipnis echoes something I wrote about in my piece for Quillette. A bit from my piece:
This doesn't require you to be fearless. You just need to shove your fears aside and do what needs to be done--say, getting up on your hind legs and telling some co-worker, "Stop saying that thing to me" or "...treating me this way."Now, if they persist after you've told them to stop a few times, that's harassment and you can seek support to get them to stop. But consider that it's less likely to get to that point if you simply act like men's equal--act as if you're powerful--instead of acting like you're a feminist.
Here's Kipnis in NYRB:
Are there vestigial aspects of femininity too that are similarly maladaptive for the modern workplace? The question came to mind as I read Carlson's account of an experience at one of her early jobs: she was riding alone in a car through rural Virginia with a cameraman who suddenly launched into a discussion about how much he'd enjoyed touching her breasts when he put a microphone under her blouse, and kept talking about it, in a "graphic monologue," for the entire trip back to the office. Carlson's response was "sheer terror," she writes. Shaking, she pressed herself against the passenger door, praying she wouldn't have to jump out of the moving vehicle. Once back at the office she was trembling so badly her boss noticed and asked what had happened; feeling sick to her stomach, she told him. (The cameraman was eventually fired over something else.)It may not win me any popularity contests to ask this next question, but what stopped Carlson from just telling the cameraman to shut up? True, she was a young woman in her early twenties, and recently hired. And he was out of line. But he wasn't her boss. He hadn't threatened her, unless talking grossly about her body is threatening in and of itself. He hadn't groped or fondled or kissed her against her will (all of which I firmly believe should sever a man from his paycheck).
One answer to the question may be that Carlson was socialized female, and a certain delicacy about sexual matters is a long-standing attribute of traditional femininity. (Which makes raunchy jokes by female comedians funnier than those of their male counterparts: more social taboos to violate.) But if we're demanding that men overcome their gender socialization, are there aspects of femininity we might wish to ditch too? Cowering when a man mentions sex transforms it into the equivalent of the master's stick: he merely has to wave it to keep you in line. It's the internalized submission of a colonial mentality--and in fact, left-wing feminists, a dying breed in these Lean In times, used to propose regarding women as "the last colony," including those of us residing in the advanced metropoles.
Perhaps if women unlearned this response we'd fare better--just in case men don't cease waving their sticks immediately. Worse, do we participate in propping up male power--or the aura of power the wielders wish to create--by helpfully trembling on command?
If you're a woman, I suggest something I advised in "Good Manners for Nice People Who Sometimes Say F*ck": to preplan for a situation like this so you know how you want to react -- and be ready to act that way.
The French have a term, l'esprit de l'escalier, basically "the spirit of the staircase" or "staircase wisdom," describing that remark you think to make in that quarrel with your lover...as you're dashing down the stairs afterward in a huff.
This preplanning thing is like having somebody write the dialogue before the quarrel. If you're somebody who tends to take the timid approach, this is your best bet for meeting an unpleasantly sexual surprise with more than freezing like an animal about to be eaten.
I've been there -- and done that -- but I did it only once, and vowed never to do it again. I haven't. But it took some preparatory thought about what to do the next time.
In other words, you're not wrong or bad or "not much of a woman" if you responded timidly at some point. Just do your best to see that you don't respond timidly again.
Oh, and this doesn't just go for situations with men. It goes for those with ornery lesbians or anybody who's doing something or saying something that really isn't working for you.
Boundaries, baby. They're yours for the setting.
via @BariWeiss
It's different for men, who are in general raised to be more assertive, but some of the same principles apply.
When I was 14 and an older man tried to give me a shoulder rubdown (totally unexpected; we were just standing next to each other), I told him to stop. He said, "I'm just trying to be friendly," and I replied, "No, you're not. Just stop." He stopped.
My aunt, who is nobody's fool and has a tartness reminiscent of the actress Eve Arden, tells the story of a night she was asked to stay late by her then-boss, who then put a move on her. She told him, "Jesus Christ, Dick, I've been on my feet all day, I'm tired, and I have two kids at home. Are you really going to do this?" He stopped, too.
Obviously this wouldn't work when actual danger is involved, as you point out. But I wonder about the young woman in this story and what would have happened if she said, "Talk about my tits one more time, and I'll punch your lights out and tell everyone why."
Would he have gotten forceful? Or would he have made some excuse about "just joking," sulked all the way back, and left her alone after that? Because every moment she doesn't object — and forcefully — he'll take it farther.
Should she have to do that? Of course not. But this is the real world, and bad situations arise; it's better to be prepared emotionally when you can.
Kevin at November 30, 2017 10:50 PM
This Bari Weiss kid is growing on me, and quickly.
Har! That is a thing I wrote just now, about a new New York Times columnist. And I meant it!
Whoodathunk
Crid at November 30, 2017 11:25 PM
Just read about a guy who impersonated a female Lt. From the Coast Guard and somehow, convinced a woman the she had to send nude photos for her app to be considered. Who the fuck would fall for this??? No wonder people get victimized by douchebags like this. Don't be so fucking stupid to go along with something like this!!!
Stormy at December 1, 2017 8:09 AM
That post sounds like advice half my daughter's schoolmates up at the college could use.
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at December 1, 2017 10:14 AM
If grown women can't say "stop it" because they're "frozen with terror", then they don't belong out in the world unchaperoned; they're not really adults with agency. With adults, silence can reasonably be construed as consent. And how is a man to know if he's dealing with one of the new-fangled proud-to-be-a-slut types, or a denizen of a Victorian fainting couch, unless he "goes there"?
It appears that women think they're getting one up on men with the current sexual hysteria, but they are not. Pathetic weaklings undeserving of respect and needing paternalistic protection and/or poisonous tattle-tales years after the fact is the ultimate message to men.
It really is sad what women have allowed feminism to do to themselves. They are losing the value they had all in an effort to become in effect second-rate men serving the corporate state as obedient, docile little cogs.
Jay R at December 1, 2017 11:42 AM
"And how is a man to know if he's dealing with one of the new-fangled proud-to-be-a-slut types, or a denizen of a Victorian fainting couch, unless he 'goes there'?"
Exactly. In the new non-morality of "yes means yes except when it means no", how is one to know? Better not to take the risk. A few hours of fun is not worth having your career and reputation destroyed.
Cousin Dave at December 1, 2017 11:50 AM
If grown women can't say "stop it" because they're "frozen with terror", then they don't belong out in the world unchaperoned; they're not really adults with agency.
So...measure them for burkas, revisit suffrage, forbid them from owning property or a drivers license, and not letting them out in public without a male chaperone?
Sounds about right.
I R A Darth Aggie at December 1, 2017 12:21 PM
Love this, Kevin: "No, you're not. Just stop." He stopped.
And also your aunt's response.
Amy Alkon at December 1, 2017 1:03 PM
Cridster, I'm really liking Bari Weiss.
Amy Alkon at December 1, 2017 1:03 PM
Read a few of her columns and I like her.
If Glenn Greenwald hates her, she can't be all bad.
Conan the Grammarian at December 1, 2017 1:55 PM
Hello Dipshit!
I've had three sexual harassment incidents that I've had to go to management about. Prevailed all three times.
Yes, I told them no. Reminded them they had wives/girlfriends. Avoided them. Avoided eye contact. Acted strictly professional. Did all the right things because when you kick things up to management they ask you what you've tried because there are laws to follow. Because contrary to what you and your few sycophants think, women can't just get men fired just because.
In all cases, the men got hostile. Some of my other co workers, including women, got hostile and thought I was just being a bitch and should be flattered. These men, and their ilk are the very ones that will gossip like women and take revenge at the very hint of rejection.
Dipshit McGee, since you like male attention so very, very, very much, and since you seem to have zero people skills to boot, and since you are not in a position where you need to play office politics to, you know, live, I think there is a strong possibility that you are not capable of playing that awful mental chess game of whether or not to speak up. How strongly? Joking? Mom voice? Rhonda Rousey? How is he going to take it? Who is he buds with? How far will this go? Will I get a reputation as a bitch who can't work with people? A man hater? What if this alienates the men I really like?
Do you get it? Do you get that a female hermit who craves make attention so much she thinks other women should lay back and take it has NO business writing on this subject? Do you get that you are loonier than a goddamn fucking toon?
Anonymousie at December 1, 2017 9:24 PM
> Do you get it?
You're beautiful when you're angry.
Kidding!
You're incomprehensible.
Have you met Raddy?
Crid at December 1, 2017 10:51 PM
So everybody responded with hostility, Anonymousie? I'm flabbergasted since you seem so nice.
causticf at December 2, 2017 6:31 AM
Amy has never advised that women should "lay back and take it." And, if she ever did, she would have correctly advised them to "lie back and take it."
Conan the Grammarian at December 2, 2017 6:44 AM
Anonymousie, not content with simply offering an alternative viewpoint, descends again into its patented spittle-flinging twatwafflerie.
Amusing the first time, but by now off-putting - and boring.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at December 2, 2017 9:33 AM
"You're incomprehensible."
Don't take that personally. Crid says that about everybody who posts but himself.
Crid, sweetheart, that person has a point: that there are some environments where speaking up has a price too steep to bear. I further suggest that in many cases, the aggrieved will not discover this until it is too late. Collusion is a real thing, as you should have noticed in the decades of silence about Harvey while he could still deliver fame and fortune.
Maybe you met some of those people. Did you offer them your support?
Radwaste at December 2, 2017 9:55 AM
Nice of you, Rad.
If anyone likes, here's another good discussion we had in May 2016 on the pros and cons of speaking up:
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2016/05/26/tattling_to_dad.html
lenona at December 2, 2017 10:10 AM
There are some great examples in the #metoo cases. There is the woman who Matt Lauer told to take off her blouse, and she did. What? How about saying no? She was in a big corporate office. Or the two women in the comedian's hotel room when he asked if he could get naked. They could have left. Women want to have it both ways. Too timid to say no in an atmosphere of "anything goes" and "everyone is f*cking everyone" just leads to regrets.
cc at December 2, 2017 12:57 PM
> that person has a point: that
> there are some environments where
> speaking up has a price too
> steep to bear.
That person coulda said so.
Crid at December 2, 2017 10:35 PM
That person could also realize the same holds true for men and get off the misandrist high horse
lujlp at December 3, 2017 11:15 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2017/12/sometimes-you-c.html#comment-6633344">comment from AnonymousieAnonymousie is the same disturbed woman who left a comment on this post under the name "Bitchlasagna."
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2017/12/04/man-bashing_dis.html
Amy Alkon
at December 4, 2017 6:43 PM
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