I am missing something, shouldn't the whole country be a good behavior zone? Are their bad behavior zones where we can break laws and beat people up?

Is this for real?

Even as a law-abiding citizen, this makes me want to go into a "good behavior zone" and engage in "bad behavior" just to thumb my nose at the idiots who thought up such an idea.

I am missing something, shouldn't the whole country be a good behavior zone?

The rest of the country is becoming as asshole zone. Someone should write a book about all the rude people out there.

That sounds very Orwellian.

NicoleK, I think the key line is "Police Officers & PCSOs have additional powers ...". I don't know what those additional powers are and the concept is worrisome.

Yeah, creepy

I'm anti-social by nature. Why must you persecute me, England? Good thing we kicked your ass out of the Colonies, or we'd be in the same boat.

No free speech. No weapons of any sort. Can't even defend yourself in your own home without blowback. My normal kit would cause the Brits to have a case of the vapors.

Yes, that's right, I carry a knife. I believe the mayor of London just fainted.

Having given up on religion as a source of imparting civilized behavior, the UK wants to force people to be nice by micro-managing their behavior with the cops. But you cannot make people nice that way you just create a reign of terror. They have made it illegal to defend yourself so thugs just knock on doors and when you answer they barge in, beat you, and steal stuff, knowing that no one will try to harm them. Even when you are about to be killed you can't defend yourself. Thank God the US hasn't gone down that rabbit hole and more states have actually passed self-defense laws. That is why home invasions are actually a pretty rare crime here: too many homeowners with guns.

Wondering if this is any different than, "drug free school zones", or "gun free zones" or free speech zones that we have in the states for years.

NicoleK, I think the key line is "Police Officers & PCSOs have additional powers ...". I don't know what those additional powers are and the concept is worrisome. ~ Ben at July 6, 2018 6:43 AM

Section 4 of the Anti-Social Behaviour Act of 2003 is "get off my lawn!" with police power.

From Wikipedia:

Part IV ("Dispersal of groups etc.") gives the police powers to disperse groups of two or more persons in any public place if their presence "has resulted, or is likely to result, in any members of the public being intimidated, harassed, alarmed or distressed." There is also a power for a police officer (or PCSO) to accompany any unaccompanied person of under 16 to their home between the hours of 9 pm and 6 am.

One of my kids interned in Manchester last summer. From what she told me, and from what I saw of the place myself, I'm really not all that surprised.

I.e. this is England's way of targeting the Muslim gangs without admitting to it.

Having given up on religion as a source of imparting civilized behavior, the UK wants to force people to be nice by micro-managing their behavior with the cops.
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Somehow, I doubt that the UK's long reputation for being more a polite and self-disciplined society than the US had to do with being more religious than the US...

But I often wonder just how the British MEDIA managed to develop such an awful reputation, for the last 50 years or so. You'd think they'd take more pride in themselves than that.

Somehow, I doubt that the UK's long reputation for being more a polite and self-disciplined society than the US had to do with being more religious than the US... ~ lenona at July 6, 2018 11:13 AM

Probably not so much religious as church-going. Regular church attendance and membership provided a way for the community to socialize, to build networks and friendships. It was a unifying experience.

There can be other experiences that do this, but church attendance brought together people of differing interests and backgrounds, who all had one thing in common, they lived near each other.

With the changes in work structure, distances commuted, and prevalence of social media, we build cocoons around ourselves these days and have fewer of those unifying experiences. The person you snap at in the market or blast on Twitter today is a person you'll probably never see again, not the person you'll see next Sunday in the pew next to yours.

As this article points out, few Americans (and Britons) know their neighbors; even fewer regularly interact with them.

There was even a book about it, Bowling Alone.

Are their bad behavior zones where we can break laws and beat people up? ~ NicoleK at July 6, 2018 2:47 AM

Yes. We call it Twitter.

"Somehow, I doubt that the UK's long reputation for being more a polite and self-disciplined society than the US had to do with being more religious than the US..."

That was always a false reputation. Most of the people from the UK that people in the US saw were the upper crust. Traditionally they were the only ones who could afford the trip. You don't have to dig too deep to see that people in England were on the whole more crass and less disciplined than Americans. After all the US was founded by the English upper crust who didn't have many opportunities back home.

"Having given up on religion as a source of imparting civilized behavior"

As well they should, given the bloody history of religious violence in the UK.

Most of the people from the UK that people in the US saw were the upper crust. Traditionally they were the only ones who could afford the trip. You don't have to dig too deep to see that people in England were on the whole more crass and less disciplined than Americans. After all the US was founded by the English upper crust who didn't have many opportunities back home. ~ Ben at July 6, 2018 1:56 PM

I spoke with a woman from England, educated at Oxford, about the poor perceptions of the English abroad and she echoed your statements about only the upper crust being able to travel for a long time. And once the costs dropped to where the lower classes could afford it, the reputation of the English abroad went into he crapper.

She went on to say the most of the new lower-class English travelers were people who'd rarely if ever left their villages or ventured beyond the few blocks around where they lived. Going to a foreign country was, to them, an excuse to get roaring drunk ... and they did.

Watch an older English movie (the original Get Carter from 1971, perhaps). You'll see a lower-class England without indoor plumbing and, in many cases, sans electricity. Say what you want about FDR's New Deal and the REA and TVA being communistic, but it did move American civilization leaps and bounds ahead of that of other countries.

I was watching a documentary a few years back about the children and families moved to the countryside during the Blitz in 1940. One interviewee talked about the poorer city folks coming to live in the manor house in which she lived. She said one little transplanted girl was about to squat and pee in the middle of the dining room (on the priceless rug, no less) when her mother admonished her not to do it there, but to go and pee in the corner of the room.

I honestly don't have a poor view of the English. I just don't have an overly rosy one either. On the whole they are very similar to people from most anywhere. The perception of the English as overly stuffy and polite is the same as people in the US have a perception of foreigners and immigrants as intelligent and hardworking. The reality is that people in the US are only seeing the top 1% or less. They just aren't seeing the common folk.

And this applies to people's views about Americans as well. We already talked about Europeans and their confusion about American's needing cars being some sort of rich people arrogance. I remember French and German people being amazed how many poor black people lived in America after Katrina in New Orleans. Many of them thought that New York as average for the US since that is all they had ever seen.

And this applies even within nations. I really ticked off Amy when I commented how provincial I found the youths of LA and San Francisco. Seems to be a religious taboo to call them anything but cosmopolitan. But the truth is they are provincial. They've never been far from home (just like most everyone else). But unlike most others they have the arrogant and erroneous belief they know how other places are. That belief keeps them from learning how wrong they are.

...the UK's long reputation for being more a polite and self-disciplined society than the US.... ~ lenona at July 6, 2018 11:13 AM

Tell me again how much more civilized the UK is.

The phrase "soccer hooligan" does not have an American counterpart ... yet, although "Laker fan" comes close.

We have flash mobs Conan. But we also have guns. The guns tend to put a limit on such behavior.

Tell me again how much more civilized the UK is.

The phrase "soccer hooligan" does not have an American counterpart ... yet, although "Laker fan" comes close.
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I have no doubt they're just as badly behaved NOW. I was thinking more of the pre-1970 age, I guess.