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European Court of Human Rights rules that defaming the Prophet Muhammed “goes beyond the permissible limits of an objective debate" and "could stir up prejudice" and thus exceeds permissible limits of freedom of expression.
"At a moment of great anxiety about the state of modern liberal democracy, AI in China appears to be an incredibly powerful enabler of authoritarian rule. Is the arc of the digital revolution bending toward tyranny, and is there any way to stop it?"
Snoopy, on your Chineese AI thing (which Sixclaws joined in on) I wasn't aware that China is a liberal democracy. England would seem to be a much better choice for this concern. As for 'how do you stop it' the same way we've had to for centuries. An armed educated populace.
Even with an unarmed populace the number of officers and soldiers is far far less than the number of citizens. The economics fall apart as you increase the police. They just aren't affordable. Even with the latest technological improvements governments are still heavily dependent on the voluntary cooperation of their citizens. And as technology is increasing this dependence is also increasing. To produce, operate, and pay for that technology requires an educated and willing workforce. The risk of sabotage and even just plain laziness is too great. Chattel slavery only works on a simple agrarian level. Once you go that route the best you can do is North Korea.
As for why China is getting more oppressive and authoritarian, that is pretty easy to see. China has just about hit the limits of economic growth. As an exporting mercantilist economy they require a larger foreign economy to maintain their recent growth rates of around 15% annual GDP. But they've grown too big for that. The difference between them and the US has continued to shrink for decades. Now they are falling down to the same level as everyone else, ~3% or less. This is causing significant unrest. The leaders can no longer afford to throw money at people to calm them down so they are turning to other options. One is the increasing domestic oppression. Trying to separate out dissidents and get rid of them. But historically this is only a short term solution. Oppression breeds dissidents. In the end they create more than they eliminate. The second option China is using is also a traditional one, war. Which is also only a short term solution. As for long term answers, China is still looking.
Ben
at October 26, 2018 7:16 AM
Even with an unarmed populace the number of officers and soldiers is far far less than the number of citizens.
Ah, there's the rub. But not as you suspect. Remember, if you see something, say something. You know who else did that? East Germany, an informant state.
We're angling the same way, and with the SJW mindset of the heretics must be burned it isn't looking so good. If we become an informant state, the police/military just need to be competent.
Some people will learn to inform on their neighbors for personal gain, revenge, or just shits and giggles. Some will become dissidents (welcome to the gulag, comrade) but the vast majority will be busy keeping their heads down.
And China has another way of distracting people from being oppressed, or not making as much money as before: foreign adventures. Also known as "war".
I R A Darth Aggie
at October 26, 2018 7:45 AM
But one advantage to China for war is that it will cull some segment of their over-male population. I suspect they have a serious incel problem. Maybe their cultural norms will help keep a lid on that, but they have serious male-to-female imbalance.
I R A Darth Aggie
at October 26, 2018 7:48 AM
"Put differently, it is the individual who creates the collective, not the other way around. The Man makes the country what it is.
South Africa ceased being great once enough good people were expunged from state and civil society.
The tipping point is coming. A sufficient number of bad people admitted into the Unites States of America will make America great no more."
Is that the rub IRA. In those cases you have the consent of the people. As you point out the people are actively participating. I also mentioned the war option. Though I didn't comment much on it. I figure most people understand most of that.
But even for the dissent thing, East Germany didn't do well. Neither did Soviet Russia. As I said they headed in the North Korea direction. And they didn't last long. North Korea is probably the longest lasting slave state in the modern era. And it is mostly propped up by external powers. No one is big enough to prop up China anymore.
Anyhow the fact that increasing technology and industrialization wipes out forced labor is still true. You can't put a slave in charge of your machines. He will break them. We don't have the technology to make you think. So slaves don't. Which is why if you want to live in an industrialized society you can't overly oppress your people. Or it all falls apart, like East Germany and Soviet Russia.
NBC News deliberately hid vital information that would have helped clear Brett Kavanaugh of the serial rape allegations Julie Swetnick and her attorney, Michael Avenatti, leveled against him.
In those cases you have the consent of the people. As you point out the people are actively participating.
And they're here. For instance, here's some badthink:
“It is a terrifying testament to the decay of our faith and our university that, throughout the approval process for this event and the six years for which it has now continued, not a single person in a position of authority stood up (or at least stood with sufficient strength) to suggest that perhaps such a flagrant celebration of sexual perversity might just be wrong,” Leary wrote.
Now pair that with "see something, say something" and the TSA's groping of your parts and were are we heading? to a high tech Big Brother surveillance state where no one thinks to resist because they've been taught that's wrong.
I R A Darth Aggie
at October 26, 2018 11:34 AM
P16 said he reported being physically and sexually abused by a resident at his children's home to staff, but they "swept it under the carpet".
He began long distance running to get away from the abuse but ended up being paid to perform sex acts on older men in toilets, which he did not see as abuse at the time because of what he had already suffered.
When arrested by police he again disclosed the abuse from the resident, but pleaded guilty to charges because social workers told him it would mean "I could go home sooner".
In a statement read to the inquiry, P16 said: "I was prosecuted when older men paid for me to have sex with them in a public toilet. I was only 15 or 16.
He's:
-an ethnic minority
-lives in New York City and Miami
-has a violent criminal record
-is a stripper
Not exactly the demographics that voted for Trump.
Snoopy
at October 26, 2018 4:11 PM
Before Victoria Bissell Brown there was Shalom Auslander.
This guy is pure gold:
And so the first reason the comparison of Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler bothers me is not because it belittles the deaths of millions of innocents, but because, frankly, it belittles Adolf Hitler.
Darth, I'm not quite sure whether you were criticizing the columnist Leary's enemies - or him.
I also don't understand why there's still so much confusion among adults as to how to teach young people the difference between tattling and whistle-blowing, when we're talking about reporting crimes - or even reporting unethical behavior. (Hint: The right to be openly LGBTQ is not unethical. But walking around naked if you're NOT on stage is generally illegal and that's how most people like it.)
One GOOD parental response, regarding tattling on siblings, that I once heard of was: "Thank you for bringing that to my attention, but it is not important enough for me to get involved in." That way, the mother said, the kids would learn when not to bother her - and would ALSO not hesitate to tell her when, say, a child was putting a garden hose into a neighbor's basement window and was about to turn the water on.)
But in the meantime, one link led me to a commentator that quoted Bishop Fulton J. Sheen. He wrote the following essay in 1931:
He was apparently talking only about religious "tolerance" and how we need more "intolerance."
Quote:
...The giggling giddiness of novelty, the sentimental restlessness of a mind unhinged, and the unnatural fear of a good dose of hard thinking, all conjoin to produce a group of sophomoric latitudinarians who think there is no difference between God as Cause and God as a ʺmental projectionʺ; who equate Christ and Buddha, St. Paul and John Dewey, and then enlarge their broad‐mindedness into a sweeping synthesis that says not only that one Christian sect is just as good as another, but even that one world‐religion is just as good as another. The great god ʺProgressʺ is then enthroned on the altars of fashion, and as the hectic worshipers are asked, ʺProgress towards what?ʺ The tolerant answer comes back, ʺMore progress.ʺ All the while sane men are wondering how there can be progress without direction and how there can be direction without a fixed point. And because they speak of a ʺfixed point,ʺ they are said to be behind the times, when really they are beyond the times mentally and spiritually.
In the face of this false broad‐mindedness, what the world needs is intolerance...
...What is tolerance? Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience towards evil, and a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. But what is more important than the definition is the field of its application. The important point here is this: Tolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons. Tolerance applies to the erring; intolerance to the error….
Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles...
(snip)
So, one might easily conclude, he considered anyone who isn't Catholic to be on an evil path - to hell, I suppose?
lenona
at October 27, 2018 12:29 PM
I think you can safely conclude he thought many Catholics were on a path to hell as well, Lenona. The main thing I got out of that was he disliked progressivism and the attached refusal to accept objective reality.
For most of us the concept that a mail box down the street exists seems uncomplicated. And it doesn't matter if anyone is looking at it, the mail box is still there. Doesn't matter how you feel about the mail box. Don't matter who the mail box's friends are (assuming for some nutty reason mail boxes have friends). The mail box exists independent of any observer. But two out of the four main philosophies in sociology disagree with that. They affirmatively reject the concept of objective reality. And a third one isn't comfortable with the concept. They just aren't inherently opposed to it.
Quite frankly this is educated insanity. If we can't agree we inhabit the same reality, if we don't share the same truths, then there isn't any reason to communicate. What you call red I may call blue. Without that minimum of common ground there is no purpose to talking. After all, what you said and what I heard are not related to each other. Why waste the time? Or the effort?
And this refusal of objective reality is a key component of the progressive movement. Much of the philosophy is based on feelings. But feelings change. In the end with no real way to communicate or resolve differences things fall down to the least common denominator, violence. And that is what you see often these days. Leftwing groups acting violently.
Ben
at October 28, 2018 11:56 AM
I think you can safely conclude he thought many Catholics were on a path to hell as well, Lenona.
And that's supposed to make up for what he implied?
Besides, would "objective reality" really go well with religion in the first place?
Also, as I understand Buddhism, one of its edicts is that you shouldn't just blindly follow the teachings; you should test them first, just as you would test goods before buying them. (Or, in the modern world, make sure they've been tested by the right people.)
If there's any other major religion that is humble enough to care about the truth to that extent, I'd love to hear the name. (Not that Buddhism can't be horrible in certain ways, as Richard Dawkins pointed out.)
The Tahrs.
Crid at October 25, 2018 11:12 PM
The cawfee.
Crid at October 25, 2018 11:13 PM
The kitchen, the child's plaything.
Crid at October 25, 2018 11:18 PM
The medication, the achievement.
Crid at October 25, 2018 11:19 PM
I'm like Amy when it comes to fathers of my nation —I like 'em tall— but there is that....
Crid at October 25, 2018 11:21 PM
This can also be stated like that.
Crid at October 25, 2018 11:23 PM
Can you fall in love with someone you've never met?
Yes, yes you can
https://imgur.com/gallery/pUxtDwz
lujlp at October 26, 2018 1:13 AM
Kegs for Kavanaugh -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyQfd5HO5xk
Snoopy at October 26, 2018 3:40 AM
European Court of Human Rights rules that defaming the Prophet Muhammed “goes beyond the permissible limits of an objective debate" and "could stir up prejudice" and thus exceeds permissible limits of freedom of expression.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/defaming-prophet-muhammed-not-free-expression-echr/1292823
Snoopy at October 26, 2018 3:46 AM
"At a moment of great anxiety about the state of modern liberal democracy, AI in China appears to be an incredibly powerful enabler of authoritarian rule. Is the arc of the digital revolution bending toward tyranny, and is there any way to stop it?"
https://www.wired.com/story/ai-cold-war-china-could-doom-us-all/
Snoopy at October 26, 2018 3:48 AM
Mother & 13-Year Old Daughter Left On Side of Road at Night Because She Supports Trump
http://whiskeypolitics.net/mother-13-year-old-daughter-left-on-side-of-road-at-night-because-she-supports-trump/
Snoopy at October 26, 2018 3:51 AM
Shamelessly stolen from another blog:
I R A Darth Aggie at October 26, 2018 6:08 AM
Good thing CNN didn't get a hold of this, or they'd title it as "White racist makes black men cry".
https://twitter.com/kwilli1046/status/1055528063906267138
I R A Darth Aggie at October 26, 2018 6:12 AM
Aside from hookers and blow, what else do bureaucrats all over the world want? Click on the link to find out
https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1055534625953644544
Sixclaws at October 26, 2018 6:25 AM
Snoopy, on your Chineese AI thing (which Sixclaws joined in on) I wasn't aware that China is a liberal democracy. England would seem to be a much better choice for this concern. As for 'how do you stop it' the same way we've had to for centuries. An armed educated populace.
Even with an unarmed populace the number of officers and soldiers is far far less than the number of citizens. The economics fall apart as you increase the police. They just aren't affordable. Even with the latest technological improvements governments are still heavily dependent on the voluntary cooperation of their citizens. And as technology is increasing this dependence is also increasing. To produce, operate, and pay for that technology requires an educated and willing workforce. The risk of sabotage and even just plain laziness is too great. Chattel slavery only works on a simple agrarian level. Once you go that route the best you can do is North Korea.
As for why China is getting more oppressive and authoritarian, that is pretty easy to see. China has just about hit the limits of economic growth. As an exporting mercantilist economy they require a larger foreign economy to maintain their recent growth rates of around 15% annual GDP. But they've grown too big for that. The difference between them and the US has continued to shrink for decades. Now they are falling down to the same level as everyone else, ~3% or less. This is causing significant unrest. The leaders can no longer afford to throw money at people to calm them down so they are turning to other options. One is the increasing domestic oppression. Trying to separate out dissidents and get rid of them. But historically this is only a short term solution. Oppression breeds dissidents. In the end they create more than they eliminate. The second option China is using is also a traditional one, war. Which is also only a short term solution. As for long term answers, China is still looking.
Ben at October 26, 2018 7:16 AM
Even with an unarmed populace the number of officers and soldiers is far far less than the number of citizens.
Ah, there's the rub. But not as you suspect. Remember, if you see something, say something. You know who else did that? East Germany, an informant state.
We're angling the same way, and with the SJW mindset of the heretics must be burned it isn't looking so good. If we become an informant state, the police/military just need to be competent.
Some people will learn to inform on their neighbors for personal gain, revenge, or just shits and giggles. Some will become dissidents (welcome to the gulag, comrade) but the vast majority will be busy keeping their heads down.
And China has another way of distracting people from being oppressed, or not making as much money as before: foreign adventures. Also known as "war".
I R A Darth Aggie at October 26, 2018 7:45 AM
But one advantage to China for war is that it will cull some segment of their over-male population. I suspect they have a serious incel problem. Maybe their cultural norms will help keep a lid on that, but they have serious male-to-female imbalance.
I R A Darth Aggie at October 26, 2018 7:48 AM
"Put differently, it is the individual who creates the collective, not the other way around. The Man makes the country what it is.
South Africa ceased being great once enough good people were expunged from state and civil society.
The tipping point is coming. A sufficient number of bad people admitted into the Unites States of America will make America great no more."
http://www.unz.com/imercer/the-caravans-cometh-making-america-great-no-more/
Snoopy at October 26, 2018 8:45 AM
Is that the rub IRA. In those cases you have the consent of the people. As you point out the people are actively participating. I also mentioned the war option. Though I didn't comment much on it. I figure most people understand most of that.
But even for the dissent thing, East Germany didn't do well. Neither did Soviet Russia. As I said they headed in the North Korea direction. And they didn't last long. North Korea is probably the longest lasting slave state in the modern era. And it is mostly propped up by external powers. No one is big enough to prop up China anymore.
Anyhow the fact that increasing technology and industrialization wipes out forced labor is still true. You can't put a slave in charge of your machines. He will break them. We don't have the technology to make you think. So slaves don't. Which is why if you want to live in an industrialized society you can't overly oppress your people. Or it all falls apart, like East Germany and Soviet Russia.
Ben at October 26, 2018 10:12 AM
Live long and drink.
https://birdjaguar.blogspot.com/2018/10/spocktoberfest.html
Stinky the Clown at October 26, 2018 11:03 AM
The MFM strikes again!
https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2018/10/26/nolte-nbc-news-hid-info-wouldve-cleared-kavanaugh-avenatti-rape-allegations/?dg
I R A Darth Aggie at October 26, 2018 11:24 AM
In those cases you have the consent of the people. As you point out the people are actively participating.
And they're here. For instance, here's some badthink:
https://www.thecollegefix.com/student-at-catholic-college-called-into-title-ix-meeting-after-he-criticized-lgbtq-drag-show/
So far, they're mostly on campus. But they're coming out into the Real World and seeking out targets infiltrate or bully, such as the tech world
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/22/sqlite_code_of_conduct/
Now pair that with "see something, say something" and the TSA's groping of your parts and were are we heading? to a high tech Big Brother surveillance state where no one thinks to resist because they've been taught that's wrong.
I R A Darth Aggie at October 26, 2018 11:34 AM
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1055885220782727175
Sixclaws at October 26, 2018 12:09 PM
Your buddy Snoopy?
https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/26/suspected-maga-bomber-identified-as-native-american-trump-supporter-cesar-sayoc-8079040/
Abersouth at October 26, 2018 12:55 PM
Stunning image of a UFO caught on tape. Cannot be disputed.
https://twitter.com/AntonioParis/status/1055823751810637829
Snoopy at October 26, 2018 1:53 PM
Here kitty kitty kitty
https://twitter.com/CursedAds/status/1055912416322772998
Sixclaws at October 26, 2018 1:56 PM
Talks to dessicated monkey paw: I wish for the dull, flat coloured, overly simplistic web design to go out of fashion
https://twitter.com/rivatez/status/1052207767400865792
Sixclaws at October 26, 2018 2:28 PM
Elizabeth Warren is the gift that keeps on giving
https://twitter.com/GrrrGraphics/status/1055902958821330945
Sixclaws at October 26, 2018 2:30 PM
> Your buddy Snoopy?
He's:
-an ethnic minority
-lives in New York City and Miami
-has a violent criminal record
-is a stripper
Not exactly the demographics that voted for Trump.
Snoopy at October 26, 2018 4:11 PM
Before Victoria Bissell Brown there was Shalom Auslander.
This guy is pure gold:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/09/13/dont-compare-donald-trump-to-adolf-hitler-it-belittles-hitler/?utm_term=.3d53fcdd0add
Sixclaws at October 26, 2018 7:02 PM
Darth, I'm not quite sure whether you were criticizing the columnist Leary's enemies - or him.
I also don't understand why there's still so much confusion among adults as to how to teach young people the difference between tattling and whistle-blowing, when we're talking about reporting crimes - or even reporting unethical behavior. (Hint: The right to be openly LGBTQ is not unethical. But walking around naked if you're NOT on stage is generally illegal and that's how most people like it.)
One GOOD parental response, regarding tattling on siblings, that I once heard of was: "Thank you for bringing that to my attention, but it is not important enough for me to get involved in." That way, the mother said, the kids would learn when not to bother her - and would ALSO not hesitate to tell her when, say, a child was putting a garden hose into a neighbor's basement window and was about to turn the water on.)
But in the meantime, one link led me to a commentator that quoted Bishop Fulton J. Sheen. He wrote the following essay in 1931:
https://brandonvogt.com/fulton-sheen-need-intolerance/
You have to scroll about 1/3.
He was apparently talking only about religious "tolerance" and how we need more "intolerance."
Quote:
...The giggling giddiness of novelty, the sentimental restlessness of a mind unhinged, and the unnatural fear of a good dose of hard thinking, all conjoin to produce a group of sophomoric latitudinarians who think there is no difference between God as Cause and God as a ʺmental projectionʺ; who equate Christ and Buddha, St. Paul and John Dewey, and then enlarge their broad‐mindedness into a sweeping synthesis that says not only that one Christian sect is just as good as another, but even that one world‐religion is just as good as another. The great god ʺProgressʺ is then enthroned on the altars of fashion, and as the hectic worshipers are asked, ʺProgress towards what?ʺ The tolerant answer comes back, ʺMore progress.ʺ All the while sane men are wondering how there can be progress without direction and how there can be direction without a fixed point. And because they speak of a ʺfixed point,ʺ they are said to be behind the times, when really they are beyond the times mentally and spiritually.
In the face of this false broad‐mindedness, what the world needs is intolerance...
...What is tolerance? Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience towards evil, and a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. But what is more important than the definition is the field of its application. The important point here is this: Tolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons. Tolerance applies to the erring; intolerance to the error….
Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles...
(snip)
So, one might easily conclude, he considered anyone who isn't Catholic to be on an evil path - to hell, I suppose?
lenona at October 27, 2018 12:29 PM
I think you can safely conclude he thought many Catholics were on a path to hell as well, Lenona. The main thing I got out of that was he disliked progressivism and the attached refusal to accept objective reality.
For most of us the concept that a mail box down the street exists seems uncomplicated. And it doesn't matter if anyone is looking at it, the mail box is still there. Doesn't matter how you feel about the mail box. Don't matter who the mail box's friends are (assuming for some nutty reason mail boxes have friends). The mail box exists independent of any observer. But two out of the four main philosophies in sociology disagree with that. They affirmatively reject the concept of objective reality. And a third one isn't comfortable with the concept. They just aren't inherently opposed to it.
Quite frankly this is educated insanity. If we can't agree we inhabit the same reality, if we don't share the same truths, then there isn't any reason to communicate. What you call red I may call blue. Without that minimum of common ground there is no purpose to talking. After all, what you said and what I heard are not related to each other. Why waste the time? Or the effort?
And this refusal of objective reality is a key component of the progressive movement. Much of the philosophy is based on feelings. But feelings change. In the end with no real way to communicate or resolve differences things fall down to the least common denominator, violence. And that is what you see often these days. Leftwing groups acting violently.
Ben at October 28, 2018 11:56 AM
I think you can safely conclude he thought many Catholics were on a path to hell as well, Lenona.
And that's supposed to make up for what he implied?
Besides, would "objective reality" really go well with religion in the first place?
Also, as I understand Buddhism, one of its edicts is that you shouldn't just blindly follow the teachings; you should test them first, just as you would test goods before buying them. (Or, in the modern world, make sure they've been tested by the right people.)
If there's any other major religion that is humble enough to care about the truth to that extent, I'd love to hear the name. (Not that Buddhism can't be horrible in certain ways, as Richard Dawkins pointed out.)
lenona at October 29, 2018 5:31 PM
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