Back in the day I remember that I was astounded to find out most of the buyers in Germany got a ten year loan in order to afford their Mercedes. Not a big deal because most of them planned on driving it for twenty years, and the Mercedes was up to that. It was also a safe car which keep the insurance rates down.
This was the early 1980’s.
I keep my cars for 15 or twenty years. Most of these loans have no pre payment penalties. So be disciplined and pay on the back side.
Also look at your interest rate and even bigger issues, Taxes, license and insurance.
Take a guess why it is much cheaper to insure a 60k truck than a 40k sports car

It isn’t just the payments.

I think the issue is there are a lot of people who would be perfectly happy with the types of cars they sold in the 80s, and would love to pay less money for a car with less features... they just are not available any more.

We buy all our cars used, cash.

think the issue is there are a lot of people who would be perfectly happy with the types of cars they sold in the 80s, and would love to pay less money for a car with less features... they just are not available any more.

We buy all our cars used, cash.

NicoleK at October 2, 2019 11:44 PM

Cars have never been cheaper or safer in adjusted dollars Nicole. You might want to go back to the 80’s but having been there and driven those cars, and well as cars built in the fifties and sixties, I sure as hell don’t.

Which features don’t you like? Power steering? Air conditioning? Automatic transmissions? Airbags?shoulder belts? Catalytic converters? quick crumple bumpers so you don’t end up with the engine in your lap?

That's nice that you don't, but some poorer person than you might be willing to do without AC and automatic transmissions, and it isn't an option.

I don't mind driving stick myself, and actually prefer it.

I don't mind driving stick myself, and actually prefer it.

NicoleK at October 3, 2019 2:00 AM

Neither do I but they are tricky for older people and those with leg injuries. Yours is a very self centered perspective

I remember having to go out before school to feed the livestock most of the winter when I was 16 because my father broke his ankle and couldn’t drive the old international scout.

Stick shifts in newer vehicles also reduce your gas mileage. Thought you were environmentally conscious?

80’s vehicles are pollution spewing piece of shit death traps with or without standard transmissions.,

What are the sweetest three little words you can utter when someone asks why you drive an older car? "It's paid for."

There used to be cars for people who were either starting out or didn't want to spend a lot on automobiles. They were smaller, boxier, and didn't come with a load of "standard" features. Or, you bought a used Jeep CJ.

Today, no one wants to be seen in those vehicles. Hyundai became the Korean Honda - bigger and more advanced cars are where the money is. Everybody wants a BMW as their starter car. So, they put themselves into financial prison just to avoid being seen in a dented Kia Rondo.

Why not? They're already in debt for life for the student loans to pay for that puppetry degree, so what's more debt. "Fake it 'til you make it," right?

No wonder so manny sensible Millennials (is there such a thing?) are opting for city living with no car.

take this with the post a few earlier on enlightenmt chic... Is it not the same thing? That is, if we stretch and finance and insist everyone must have something (be it a car or a 4-year degree) and we make it 'so easy' with all sorts of financial wrangling... We perpetuate the need for other methods of showing off. That is, per The Incredibles, if everyone is special, no one is special... So people find new ways of being special.

You only walk out with a seven year loan if you want one. No one says you have to buy that car. You can buy used or buy cheaper.

Conan, there are a lot of sensible millennials. They don't end up in the media.

There are sensible millennials. Our daughter is getting married soon and one of the things that most impressed me about her fiance is that he drives an old paid-off car that he parks a half-hour+ walk away so as to avoid any cost for parking (they live downtown). He was making almost 6 figures a few years out of college and I wonder how many young men would avoid the temptation to look at that salary and happily sign up for a new car payment.

I really like the new Expeditions, but I'm not going to spend $70,000 on a vehicle. I prefer to buy a loaded SUV that's a few years old rather that a brand new Kia or small domestic crossover. I have three kids,and two are still in car seats/boosters. Safety matters, and I want something heavy. I can control the way I drive, but I can't control what anyone else does.
I have a very long (over 50-mile) commute, so I do appreciate creature comforts like good AC and sound and heated seats and lumbar support and Bluetooth so I can listen to books and podcasts.
When we were still in the 'burbs I think there was a lot more pressure to buy a nicer car. I still work in Austin and see kids just of of college driving $60,000 cars on $40,000 salaries. Now that I'm on the backside of my 30's, I really don't care about impressing people. I want something comfortable and reliable and paid off.

Sometimes things happen. I had it planned that I would pay off my car the month my oldest child entered college. Then I had an accident and totaled my car. My daughter is going to have to drive a lot this winter. Safety is very much on my mind.

A $45,000 Volvo with the best safety features (would probably have prevented my accident) is very attractive right now and the only way I can afford it is with a long term loan. I am driving to work in an 86 Civic but I need to buy something soon. A Subaru is cheaper but the Volvo is safer.

"New technological and safety features, such as larger and more sophisticated multimedia displays, have made even the most basic cars more expensive."

'Sophisticated multimedia displays' are in basic cars? The average college kid is driving a $60k car? This sounds like a coastie thing. You can get a decent car for $20k. Going much under that is hard. But hitting about $20k isn't.

People spend as much as they can. It has been that way for thousands of years.

Curtis:
I was very interested in the XC90, but my friend talked me out of it. She had a brand new one a couple years ago, and never had as many electrical problems with any other car as she did with that one. She traded it for a new Outback, which she loves (so far). I had an older Volvo years ago and it was also problematic. My commuter car is a Subaru Crosstreck, which is OK except for the road noise. I also can't take all the kids in it, but that would not matter for your daughter.
I like to window shop for used cars on Carvana. Using the filters on there and reviewing safety ratings has given me new ideas about what I might want next.

'Sophisticated multimedia displays' are in basic cars?

They're not that expensive. Think Amazon 7" tablet permanently mounted in your car, which you can buy for $50. I wonder what the discount would be when you order in lots of 100,000 units?

If you don't mind being a few years from new but get a nice discount in price on a car in good condition, ask for a particular vehicle coming in at the end of a lease.

How is it self-centered to say options should be available for people? No one's saying everyone has to buy them.

How is my favorite tranny today?

How is it self-centered to say options should be available for people? No one's saying everyone has to buy them.

NicoleK at October 3, 2019 11:07 AM

The market drives the options. Ones that aren’t popular like manual transmissions now cost more because the manufacturer has very little demand.

Cars are considerably less expensive in adjusted dollars than they were in 1980 and they are much safer. Most of the additional real cost has gone into crash worthiness, not fifty buck tablet electronics and two dollar USB ports.

What you were being self centered about was your wrong and snobbish argument that somehow a manual transmission is a more bare bones and economical option than an automatic one. Implied in that, which I have heard many times before is that “any real driver”can operate a manual transmission vehicle. Anyone that can’t has no business behind the wheel? AmIrite?

Yes, I can drive a manual transmission, Probably better than you can, because I have at least two decades more experience doing it. but they are no longer the cheaper more reliable option. They are now a boutique item. Pricy and more gas guzzling than a good automatic transmission, because, with the exception of high end pricy sports cars, the demand has gone away.

There are some great comments in here.

This guy John Jacobs is in here too. I think he's secretly in love with Amy.

I'll have to look around IRA but I don't recall the basic cars coming with anything fancy as far as multimedia is concerned. Yes the radio has a touch screen and a USB port. But that isn't what I would call a 'sophisticated multimedia display'. It isn't $50 like you say. More like $100 to $200. But that is the same as a radio from years ago. Hardly what is driving prices up.

As Isab points out the cost of a basic car is actually less in inflation adjusted dollars. If people are buying $60k cars instead of the very available $20k cars the consequences of that choice is on them. For good or for ill.

> Which features

Don't forget ABS, digital media and fuel injection.

Been in a lot of rentals in recent years, but never one without a rear-view camera. Are those required of every model nowadays?

I have a rear-view camera. I don’t use it. I still turn around and look when I back out. I think that if I relied on the camera I would aim the car the wrong direction. I also physically turn my head to check my blind spot when I switch lanes.

A car that was $60k new is under 30k when it’s five years old.For my 30-ish budget, I would rather have five-year-old nice car than than a new $30kcar.

My boss’s kid is two years out of college and drives a new 4Runner. My boss is a VP at a major power company and drives a 7-year-old Wrangler. Before that he drove a twelve year old suburban. Only one of them has something to prove... either he’ll grow out of it, or he’ll age out of his parent’s car insurance.

"Safety matters, and I want something heavy."

Take a look on YouTube at "car crash videos".

• The margin afforded by weight is illusory
• EVERYTHING flips over.

The number 1, undisputed, guaranteed determinant of accident severity is driver skill.

Don't be fooled by the average driver's lack of actual training, and don't mistake a clear accident history for a skill test.

"How is my favorite tranny today?"

That 8-speed in the Ram V-6 half-ton is pretty sweet, isn't it?

"Been in a lot of rentals in recent years, but never one without a rear-view camera. Are those required of every model nowadays?"

Yes. Every model since 2018 I think.

ahw:
Thanks for the advice. The Subaru Crosstrek is the cheap car and XC40 is the expensive. I know I would probably be happy with Crosstrek but having teenager drivers and causing an accident because I was tired makes me much more safety conscious.