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I thought that stuff was 30 years behind her. Nearly wept this morning.
Crid
at May 5, 2020 10:38 PM
Y'know, there's nothing wrong with a silly-but-modest celebrity who doesn't think it's his place to march into the cancer ward and try to bring cheer to the life of some child who might not even grow old enough to learn the difference between real life and make-believe.
But when a celebrity does make that effort, he deserves a better headline than this.
Crid
at May 5, 2020 10:43 PM
Flanagan writes engaging, settle-into-a-chair essays, the kind that often gleam with re-reading hours or years later. (Last week her twitter feed linked a fine 2009 piece about fathers and daughters sparked by Alec Baldwin's idiocies.)
But a few days into the lockdown, as many of us were still coming to grips with what it was going to be like, this quip really hit the spot.
Crid
at May 5, 2020 10:59 PM
Sorry, I know this is a repeat, but with Justice Ginsburg with failing health, I nominate Justice Rebecca Bradley.
“Where in the Constitution did the people of Wisconsin confer authority on a single, un-elected cabinet secretary to compel almost 6 mil people to stay at home, close their businesses & face imprisonment if they don’t comply… Isn’t it the very definition of tyranny?”
I feel for Flanagan, I really do. But at this point, we need to get back to work. When there was a question of resources and scale we made this devastating choice, lives or the economy. We chose lives. Unemployment is at 20% and rising. We now know the scale of the disease and what we can handle. Not even NYC was overwhelmed. To write a hysterical piece about how Trump is looking to kill ppl to save the economy is gross and very insensitive to those whose livelihoods have been destroyed to keep the death rate low. To deny those ppl the opportunity to go back to, or to find work bc as she sits in economic safety is selfish and narcissistic. And to do it so that you can score points against the Bad Orange Man is even worse. She should be ashamed to have written such a melodramatic, insensitive piece of drivel.
The amount of insensitivity people have been showing to one another during this time has been shocking and makes me despair for the future. To not care that ppl are suffering bc they are in red states and might vote Trump, wow...it speaks volumes of what ppl on the left are made of. And for those who were willing to throw grandma under the bus when we had no idea what was coming are just as bad. This should have brought us together, but the divide may just be too deep. When you can no longer appreciate another person’s suffering bc you don’t even see them as human, your society has bigger problems on its hands. I’m afraid that’s where we are now.
> She should be ashamed to have
> written such a melodramatic,
> insensitive piece of drivel.
That's depraved.
Adoration of Trump at such a level — the abject certainty that not a whisper of criticism should find this game-changing figure — isn't even childlike: Trump enthusiasts at that tier are barely human, let alone thoughtful.
Civilization might be profoundly reconfigured this year; most of our American strengths and blessings are under siege. As they settle into new patterns, it's a least consoling that the monomaniacal Trumpistas are unlikely to find themselves in positions of meaningful influence.
And they'll be wondering how their moment was squandered.
In a press conference, the Bakersfield duo, who run an urgent care clinic, "argue that the death rate and prevalence rate of COVID-19 are comparable to that of the seasonal flu. Moreover, it is already so prevalent in the community that contact with it should not be feared. They are essentially suggesting, without saying it outright, that due to undiagnosed cases at large, (the American) population is pretty close to herd immunity."
Excerpts:
Dr Erickson states that Kern county (where they are located) has conducted 5,213 tests which revealed 340 cases. I will take his numbers as truth without looking them up. He then states –wait for it– “Well that’s 6.5% of the population. [...] This is important: If you divide 340 positives by 5,213 tests you do not get “6.5% of the population.” You get a test-positive rate of 6.5%.
But Erickson doubles down on this error. He then states that in California, there have been 33,865 cases out of 285,900 tests (again, I will take those numbers on faith), and says that this means that 12% of Californians are infected. [...] Hopefully you can see what’s going on here. If not, let me break it down. Erickson is conflating the test-positive rate with the prevalence rate. They are distinctly different concepts. To misuse them in this manner is a statistical crime akin to the Lindbergh kidnapping or putting anchovies on pizza. [...] If I asked 100 of Donald Trump’s best friends if they loved him, and 95 said yes (i.e., 95%), could I then conclude that 95% of the American population also loves Donald Trump? Of course not, because those 100 were not a representative sample of the American population.
The test-positive rate, on the other hand, just tells us that among those in California who were tested, 12% were infected. Who gets tested? The symptomatic and those who are likely to have the disease. That is literally the rule for who gets tested.
So imagine if you now loosen the criteria for who gets tested. [...] Would you expect the test-positive rate to go up or down? Once again, down. [...] But Erickson literally states, “the more you test, the prevalence estimate goes up.” [...] The more you test, you will find more cases, but the denominator will rise faster, so the rate will either go down or stay the same. And if it’s a true prevalence measure with proper sampling, the number should stay roughly the same. If it goes up, you’ve detected a major outbreak.
Conan the Grammarian
at May 6, 2020 8:58 AM
Anyone with kids here, what would you do to them if they acted like one in this post?
Even though the state government asked thousands of people to come to New York from out of state to help fight coronavirus, they will have to pay New York state taxes, even on income they might make from their home states that they're paid while in New York.
Well Sixclaws, if you've hit that point you've been way too permissive for quite a while. Also I need more context. How old is this kid? Is it actually your kid or are you stepping in later in life? Is the mother around and are the two of you willing to work together?
If the kid is 5 and mom won't support you, maybe divorce is the good answer. If the kid is 20 how about evicting him. Lots of other options too.
Ben
at May 6, 2020 9:34 AM
"Nice phone company you have there, Chairman Xi. Be a terrible shame if something happened to it."
More importantly, its tactics of intimidation and its attempts to silence critics could backfire in Europe and other democracies.
“China is shooting itself in the foot,” said Reinhard Bütikofer, a leading German Greens party member of the European Parliament. “All the kind of goodwill it tried to build up over the past thirty years since Tiananmen Square has gone down the drain in the past three months,” he told Carnegie Europe.
Huawei, China’s giant electronics company, may be the first casualty.
Israeli defense officials are now reported as saying that, under the pressure of repeated Israeli airstrikes, Iran—which has been involved in the fighting in Syria since 2011—is starting to pack up and leave.
Its forces, the anonymous officials say, are “pulling out of Syria and closing military bases there.” That news comes on the heels of two more reported strikes on Monday night—and no less than 14 since April 10.
Updated: After the publication of this article, it was reported that one inmate at the Trousdale prison in Tennessee has died of COVID-19. Six others have been hospitalized, and one of them is in serious condition. 1 out of 1,300 is a remarkably low fatality rate. The inmate who died was reportedly 67 years old.
Ben, I trust you're not really assuming that Sixclaws is the parent in question, when you say "you." (After all, most people here are too smart to risk revealing their identities.)
At any rate, if you'd looked up the HuffPost article, some of your questions would have been answered.
I'd say the kid is over ten, given the homework he's supposed to be doing. But maybe not in high school yet.
And I'd say the dad handled it very well. Calmly and firmly, while at the same time reaching out to the kid's intellect.
But yes, it's possible the dad started loosening his rules for the boy at too early an age. Of course, to take a different example, one can't take it literally when one's preschooler yells "I hate you!" But, one can't allow that behavior to continue past that age either. One has to impose the type of penalty that will make a kid think "I'll never do that again!"
How do I know all this? Because, despite my decent long-term memory, if I ever screamed "I hate you" at my mother, I have no memory of it. She was VERY good at nipping bad behavior in the bud. (I also never tried to sneak off to a neighbor's house to watch forbidden extra hours of TV in the basement with a friend; there would have been hell to pay if I had.)
Lenona
at May 6, 2020 12:03 PM
UV-C strikes again. And if it allows you to reuse an N95 mask, so much the better.
The LightStrike robot was also shown to be 99.99% effective in eliminating the coronavirus from N95 masks, which would reduce the risk of reusing this vital protective equipment amid an acute global shortage.
The machines have been introduced in about 500 health care facilities worldwide.
I'm hoping and praying that Biden picks Hillary for VP.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers
at May 6, 2020 3:22 PM
Yes Lenona that was an impersonal you. Six implied with his question that he doesn't have kids.
Even after reading the huffpo piece I still say you don't really have enough information. Going off on a rambling tangent about bumblebees doesn't really say much to me.
There is another one of these stories bumbling around twitter where the abercrombie wearing 'dad' comes in with a baseball bat and starts yelling at the kid and banging on the TV in his room. Personally I give that one a 50/50 chance it is fake. Assuming it is true where you screwed up was way before any of that happened. As for fixing things you need a lot more information than is presented.
Ben
at May 6, 2020 4:26 PM
It would only be a "rambling tangent" if the kid were under a certain age - AND was a different type of kid. I take it he wasn't. Naturally, the younger the kid, the fewer words should be used.
My only quibble with it is that from what I once heard, the theory that "bumblebees can't fly" would only make sense if they used their wings in the same way that helicopters fly. Obviously, they don't. (But, they can't fly past a certain distance; when a certain Continental bumblebee arrived in England, the scientists said "it certainly didn't fly here." Many assumed it hitched a ride on a ferry.)
Lenona
at May 7, 2020 12:05 AM
The whole 'bumblebees can't fly' story was originally about scientific ignorance and arrogance. There are a lot of people who go 'My idea of how the world works doesn't conform with reality. Well, reality must be wrong!' Life doesn't work that way. If your ideas and reality conflict then you are wrong.
Ben
at May 7, 2020 10:58 AM
According to Snopes, the SCIENTISTS never said that about bumblebees in the first place.
"So, no one 'proved' that a bumblebee can’t fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn’t adequate or appropriate for describing the flight of a bumblebee."
Lenona
at May 7, 2020 4:09 PM
Btw, Sheep Mom, besides people like Flanagan, who are middle aged (and often younger) but not in good health, plus grandparents who have to raise their grandchildren, there are also children with cancer or other serious illnesses. How can anyone justify threatening the lives of any of those people?
Lenona
at May 7, 2020 4:29 PM
It's not the rest of us who are threatening those lives: It's a viral illness that threatens those lives. That virus found it's way into the world without our help.
Crid
at May 7, 2020 9:52 PM
Lenona, the bumblebee story has always been more of an allegory than some factual retelling. Even scientists use it. We've all run into people who would rather deny reality than give up their preconceived notions.
In a similar vein it is unlikely that Jesus ever actually ran into a 'good Samaritan'.
Ben
at May 8, 2020 7:55 AM
In a similar vein it is unlikely that Jesus ever actually ran into a 'good Samaritan'. ~ Ben at May 8, 2020 7:55 AM
I don't think the parable is that Jesus ran into him.
The Israelites and the Samaritans despised each other at the time, akin to the English and the Dutch in the 17th century. Witness the English expressions meant to denigrate the Dutch: Dutch treat = cheap, in Dutch = in trouble, Dutch courage = drunk cojones, etc. Israelites viewed Samaritans the same way, and vice-versa.
Jesus used the parable to answer a question posed to him, "who is my neighbor?" when he told his followers to love their neighbors and to show that the Kingdom of Heaven was open to all.
Conan the Grammarian
at May 9, 2020 10:26 AM
As I said Conan it is an allegory. A story ment to tell a wider truth. The bumblebee story is also an allegory. That there was or wasn't a real 'good Samaritan' or was or wasn't a real 'bumblebees can't fly' guy doesn't really matter. It isn't a historical account.
Caitlin Flanagan and cancer: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/surviving-cancer-coronavirus-pandemic/610594/
Amy Alkon at May 5, 2020 10:34 PM
I thought that stuff was 30 years behind her. Nearly wept this morning.
Crid at May 5, 2020 10:38 PM
Y'know, there's nothing wrong with a silly-but-modest celebrity who doesn't think it's his place to march into the cancer ward and try to bring cheer to the life of some child who might not even grow old enough to learn the difference between real life and make-believe.
But when a celebrity does make that effort, he deserves a better headline than this.
Crid at May 5, 2020 10:43 PM
Flanagan writes engaging, settle-into-a-chair essays, the kind that often gleam with re-reading hours or years later. (Last week her twitter feed linked a fine 2009 piece about fathers and daughters sparked by Alec Baldwin's idiocies.)
But a few days into the lockdown, as many of us were still coming to grips with what it was going to be like, this quip really hit the spot.
Crid at May 5, 2020 10:59 PM
Sorry, I know this is a repeat, but with Justice Ginsburg with failing health, I nominate Justice Rebecca Bradley.
“Where in the Constitution did the people of Wisconsin confer authority on a single, un-elected cabinet secretary to compel almost 6 mil people to stay at home, close their businesses & face imprisonment if they don’t comply… Isn’t it the very definition of tyranny?”
https://youtu.be/gFf-CMPzwiM
Bill O Rights at May 6, 2020 6:29 AM
I feel for Flanagan, I really do. But at this point, we need to get back to work. When there was a question of resources and scale we made this devastating choice, lives or the economy. We chose lives. Unemployment is at 20% and rising. We now know the scale of the disease and what we can handle. Not even NYC was overwhelmed. To write a hysterical piece about how Trump is looking to kill ppl to save the economy is gross and very insensitive to those whose livelihoods have been destroyed to keep the death rate low. To deny those ppl the opportunity to go back to, or to find work bc as she sits in economic safety is selfish and narcissistic. And to do it so that you can score points against the Bad Orange Man is even worse. She should be ashamed to have written such a melodramatic, insensitive piece of drivel.
The amount of insensitivity people have been showing to one another during this time has been shocking and makes me despair for the future. To not care that ppl are suffering bc they are in red states and might vote Trump, wow...it speaks volumes of what ppl on the left are made of. And for those who were willing to throw grandma under the bus when we had no idea what was coming are just as bad. This should have brought us together, but the divide may just be too deep. When you can no longer appreciate another person’s suffering bc you don’t even see them as human, your society has bigger problems on its hands. I’m afraid that’s where we are now.
Sheep Mom at May 6, 2020 6:35 AM
Sometimes it's the little things that matter:
https://twitter.com/moaisadeadbird/status/1257847749938208768
Sixclaws at May 6, 2020 7:30 AM
> She should be ashamed to have
> written such a melodramatic,
> insensitive piece of drivel.
That's depraved.
Adoration of Trump at such a level — the abject certainty that not a whisper of criticism should find this game-changing figure — isn't even childlike: Trump enthusiasts at that tier are barely human, let alone thoughtful.
Civilization might be profoundly reconfigured this year; most of our American strengths and blessings are under siege. As they settle into new patterns, it's a least consoling that the monomaniacal Trumpistas are unlikely to find themselves in positions of meaningful influence.
And they'll be wondering how their moment was squandered.
Crid at May 6, 2020 7:49 AM
"I feel for Flanagan, I really do."
Crid at May 6, 2020 7:52 AM
Canadian epidemiologist gives Bakersfield duo a lesson in statistics.
In a press conference, the Bakersfield duo, who run an urgent care clinic, "argue that the death rate and prevalence rate of COVID-19 are comparable to that of the seasonal flu. Moreover, it is already so prevalent in the community that contact with it should not be feared. They are essentially suggesting, without saying it outright, that due to undiagnosed cases at large, (the American) population is pretty close to herd immunity."
Excerpts:
Dr Erickson states that Kern county (where they are located) has conducted 5,213 tests which revealed 340 cases. I will take his numbers as truth without looking them up. He then states –wait for it– “Well that’s 6.5% of the population. [...] This is important: If you divide 340 positives by 5,213 tests you do not get “6.5% of the population.” You get a test-positive rate of 6.5%.
But Erickson doubles down on this error. He then states that in California, there have been 33,865 cases out of 285,900 tests (again, I will take those numbers on faith), and says that this means that 12% of Californians are infected. [...] Hopefully you can see what’s going on here. If not, let me break it down. Erickson is conflating the test-positive rate with the prevalence rate. They are distinctly different concepts. To misuse them in this manner is a statistical crime akin to the Lindbergh kidnapping or putting anchovies on pizza. [...] If I asked 100 of Donald Trump’s best friends if they loved him, and 95 said yes (i.e., 95%), could I then conclude that 95% of the American population also loves Donald Trump? Of course not, because those 100 were not a representative sample of the American population.
The test-positive rate, on the other hand, just tells us that among those in California who were tested, 12% were infected. Who gets tested? The symptomatic and those who are likely to have the disease. That is literally the rule for who gets tested.
So imagine if you now loosen the criteria for who gets tested. [...] Would you expect the test-positive rate to go up or down? Once again, down. [...] But Erickson literally states, “the more you test, the prevalence estimate goes up.” [...] The more you test, you will find more cases, but the denominator will rise faster, so the rate will either go down or stay the same. And if it’s a true prevalence measure with proper sampling, the number should stay roughly the same. If it goes up, you’ve detected a major outbreak.
Conan the Grammarian at May 6, 2020 8:58 AM
Anyone with kids here, what would you do to them if they acted like one in this post?
https://twitter.com/David_Angelo17/status/1257368531534036994
Sixclaws at May 6, 2020 9:09 AM
https://www.pix11.com/news/coronavirus/health-workers-that-volunteered-to-come-to-ny-during-pandemic-have-to-pay-state-income-tax-cuomo
Sixclaws at May 6, 2020 9:14 AM
Well Sixclaws, if you've hit that point you've been way too permissive for quite a while. Also I need more context. How old is this kid? Is it actually your kid or are you stepping in later in life? Is the mother around and are the two of you willing to work together?
If the kid is 5 and mom won't support you, maybe divorce is the good answer. If the kid is 20 how about evicting him. Lots of other options too.
Ben at May 6, 2020 9:34 AM
"Nice phone company you have there, Chairman Xi. Be a terrible shame if something happened to it."
https://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/81663
I R A Darth Aggie at May 6, 2020 10:04 AM
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/p-david-hornik/2020/05/05/reports-israel-is-finally-driving-iran-out-of-syria-2-n388275
I R A Darth Aggie at May 6, 2020 10:34 AM
https://www.conservativereview.com/news/horowitz-1300-test-positive-tennessee-prison-98-asymptomatic-zero-deaths/
I R A Darth Aggie at May 6, 2020 10:36 AM
Ben, I trust you're not really assuming that Sixclaws is the parent in question, when you say "you." (After all, most people here are too smart to risk revealing their identities.)
At any rate, if you'd looked up the HuffPost article, some of your questions would have been answered.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/my-son-called-me-a-fggot_b_59df92ebe4b0cee7b9549e81
I'd say the kid is over ten, given the homework he's supposed to be doing. But maybe not in high school yet.
And I'd say the dad handled it very well. Calmly and firmly, while at the same time reaching out to the kid's intellect.
But yes, it's possible the dad started loosening his rules for the boy at too early an age. Of course, to take a different example, one can't take it literally when one's preschooler yells "I hate you!" But, one can't allow that behavior to continue past that age either. One has to impose the type of penalty that will make a kid think "I'll never do that again!"
How do I know all this? Because, despite my decent long-term memory, if I ever screamed "I hate you" at my mother, I have no memory of it. She was VERY good at nipping bad behavior in the bud. (I also never tried to sneak off to a neighbor's house to watch forbidden extra hours of TV in the basement with a friend; there would have been hell to pay if I had.)
Lenona at May 6, 2020 12:03 PM
UV-C strikes again. And if it allows you to reuse an N95 mask, so much the better.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/UV-light-robot-destroys-coronavirus-in-2-minutes
I R A Darth Aggie at May 6, 2020 12:42 PM
That went well.
https://youtu.be/IkL4lVMJqDk
I R A Darth Aggie at May 6, 2020 12:57 PM
Hey, you should show the *checks notes* Governor of Georgia more respect!
https://nypost.com/2020/05/02/the-powerful-female-democrats-angling-for-biden-administration-jobs/
I R A Darth Aggie at May 6, 2020 2:14 PM
I'm hoping and praying that Biden picks Hillary for VP.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at May 6, 2020 3:22 PM
Yes Lenona that was an impersonal you. Six implied with his question that he doesn't have kids.
Even after reading the huffpo piece I still say you don't really have enough information. Going off on a rambling tangent about bumblebees doesn't really say much to me.
There is another one of these stories bumbling around twitter where the abercrombie wearing 'dad' comes in with a baseball bat and starts yelling at the kid and banging on the TV in his room. Personally I give that one a 50/50 chance it is fake. Assuming it is true where you screwed up was way before any of that happened. As for fixing things you need a lot more information than is presented.
Ben at May 6, 2020 4:26 PM
It would only be a "rambling tangent" if the kid were under a certain age - AND was a different type of kid. I take it he wasn't. Naturally, the younger the kid, the fewer words should be used.
My only quibble with it is that from what I once heard, the theory that "bumblebees can't fly" would only make sense if they used their wings in the same way that helicopters fly. Obviously, they don't. (But, they can't fly past a certain distance; when a certain Continental bumblebee arrived in England, the scientists said "it certainly didn't fly here." Many assumed it hitched a ride on a ferry.)
Lenona at May 7, 2020 12:05 AM
The whole 'bumblebees can't fly' story was originally about scientific ignorance and arrogance. There are a lot of people who go 'My idea of how the world works doesn't conform with reality. Well, reality must be wrong!' Life doesn't work that way. If your ideas and reality conflict then you are wrong.
Ben at May 7, 2020 10:58 AM
According to Snopes, the SCIENTISTS never said that about bumblebees in the first place.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bumblebees-cant-fly/
It's longer than I expected.
Near the end:
"So, no one 'proved' that a bumblebee can’t fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn’t adequate or appropriate for describing the flight of a bumblebee."
Lenona at May 7, 2020 4:09 PM
Btw, Sheep Mom, besides people like Flanagan, who are middle aged (and often younger) but not in good health, plus grandparents who have to raise their grandchildren, there are also children with cancer or other serious illnesses. How can anyone justify threatening the lives of any of those people?
Lenona at May 7, 2020 4:29 PM
It's not the rest of us who are threatening those lives: It's a viral illness that threatens those lives. That virus found it's way into the world without our help.
Crid at May 7, 2020 9:52 PM
Lenona, the bumblebee story has always been more of an allegory than some factual retelling. Even scientists use it. We've all run into people who would rather deny reality than give up their preconceived notions.
In a similar vein it is unlikely that Jesus ever actually ran into a 'good Samaritan'.
Ben at May 8, 2020 7:55 AM
I don't think the parable is that Jesus ran into him.
The Israelites and the Samaritans despised each other at the time, akin to the English and the Dutch in the 17th century. Witness the English expressions meant to denigrate the Dutch: Dutch treat = cheap, in Dutch = in trouble, Dutch courage = drunk cojones, etc. Israelites viewed Samaritans the same way, and vice-versa.
Jesus used the parable to answer a question posed to him, "who is my neighbor?" when he told his followers to love their neighbors and to show that the Kingdom of Heaven was open to all.
Conan the Grammarian at May 9, 2020 10:26 AM
As I said Conan it is an allegory. A story ment to tell a wider truth. The bumblebee story is also an allegory. That there was or wasn't a real 'good Samaritan' or was or wasn't a real 'bumblebees can't fly' guy doesn't really matter. It isn't a historical account.
Ben at May 9, 2020 2:37 PM
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