Shoulda been us. Instead we're taking, um, others.

Golly, I just so badly wish Raddy was here to spend this special day with us!

1:40 AM. he may have had his last Diet Coke in the Rose Garden.

Still- if he pardons Assange and Snowden, I'll be grateful.

According to MSNBC's Eddie Glaude, Biden is like God:

"I'm reminded of the Psalmist, you know, 'He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds'"

Pander much, Eddie?

I would like it if he pardoned Snowden. I go back and forth on Assange. Husband and I were talking about this last night. I think Assange is a scumbag and his goal is to primarily to hurt the US, so f- him. He thinks Assange would be a thorn in the side of the Biden administration.

I would worry that a fair amount of those visas issued to people from Hong Kong are actually going to Chinese spies.

Pander much, Eddie? ~ Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at January 20, 2021 12:41 AM

We're going to have several weeks of that.

The Federalist had a pretty interesting podcast the other day that featured an interview with the mayor of Aurora. He spent a week "being homeless." The main thing I got from the interview is sorta what I expected: People don't live in homeless encampments because of a lack or resources or shelter space. They CHOOSE to live in encampments because they can smoke meth and shoot up and drink all day.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-seven-nights-homeless-made-this-colorado-mayor/id983782306?i=1000505719989

There's more; he talks about the types of people he met, resources, and the mentally ill. Definitely worth a listen if you're driving around or folding laundry today.

An hour and a half to go, no pardons.

Fun Drudge headlines:

DISGRACED DONALD FLEES TO FLORIDA...

The Don Revokes Lobbying Ban After Promising to 'Drain the Swamp'...

And of course, that doesn't explain the pathos of those who sincerely admired the man or his administration, who perhaps imagined that their lifetimes of butthurt, no matter how tragic, had given them darling new insight into how they might find improvement through a game show baboon… Types who now prattle witlessly about 'War!' through the safety of their afternoon Ipads.

For the rest of their lives, I'm going to be asking the people who were so pornographically aroused by Trump: Did you get what you wanted? Walls and drained swamps? New respect from your political adversaries? A change in culture and machinery of politics in the direction of better representation for yourself or anyone else?

Is *your* life better? Or did we merely get:

• Tens of thousands of insulting tweets

• A globally ascendant and miscreant China

• Shattered respect from peers with centuries of trade and mutual support

• $8 trillion of new debt

• Hungry, squealing and infectious hoards at our borders

•An uninterrupted stream of drone killings

• A dismantled and humiliated conservative wing

• Higher unemployment and greater income disparity

• A half-million dead from unchecked pandemic

• Unchallenged / unperceived capture of the means of expression by a tiniest handful of rapacious technocrats, the super-wealthy of the Silicon Valley

• Fortification & provisioning of a kleptocratic left to manipulate and diminish every human encounter without so much as word of discussion.

Hi, Raddy!

Ifergot-

• Race riots

• Riotous intrusion into the halls of Congress

There's more; he talks about the types of people he met, resources, and the mentally ill. ~ ahw at January 20, 2021 6:37 AM

Way back in the Stone Age, the local paper in North Florida interviewed a homeless guy who frequented a corner I passed regularly. So, when I read the article, I had seen the guy.

He admitted he was not interested in working, despite his "Will Work for Food" sign. He wanted money to buy alcohol and drugs. He told the interviewer he had no interest in moving on, that this was his choice.

He said he made roughly $24,000 a year panhandling and was usually finished by noon. Once finished for the day, he would join his buddies in a park by the river with a burger, a bottle of cheap hooch, and drugs.

This was when minimum wage paid roughly $10,000 per year and one could live reasonably comfortably in North Florida on that.

Now, not every homeless person is homeless by choice, so blowing off the issue with that as the reason would be the wrong approach.

However, the Aurora mayor's experience is illustrative. Shelters can provide hard-working people who have fallen on hard times a path to getting back on their feet, but building more shelters or housing cannot, by itself, solve the problem. Mental illness and dependency issues conflict with the narrative of advocates for the homeless.

Grifter is two little syllables. Trump voters have been had.

"I'm reminded of the Psalmist, you know, 'He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds'"

Blech, If you want to tell me you voted for Biden because he was the lesser of two evils, go for it, but please spare me this nonsense.

We need to get the blog's 25th Amendment office pool going. Who wants to take charge of that?

Busy here with the wagers for the start date of the Harris administration.

Oldest President Evar, right? Has anyone looked up the actuarials?

Everything's under control:

Still, the system isn’t wholly immune to human error or presidential forgetfulness. Bill Clinton, in his haste to leave a 1999 NATO summit, left the event without the military aide in the motorcade — a relatively small matter, given that the event was within walking distance of the White House. A second incident unfolded for months in secret, when Clinton actually lost “the biscuit” — the card that contains the codes required to authenticate any order that comes from the president.

“The codes were actually missing for months,” retired Army Gen. Hugh Shelton, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in Clinton’s second term, wrote in a 2010 memoir. "We called upstairs, we started a search around the White House for the codes, and he finally confessed that he in fact misplaced them. He couldn't recall when he had last seen them.”

How it came to pass.

You're gonna get screwed, and you don't believe it because Orange Man Bad is who you are.

Look back at the election. Trump "might be mean to gays", so you voted for the candidate that took money from regimes that killed them, because Orange Man Bad.

Look back in this blog, and view the effusive praise for that beacon of Vice Presidential purity, Joe Biden. Uhh, nope. But... Orange Man Bad!

So we get to the elections, where late votes appear with a ratio of over 10000:1 for... not Orange Man Bad, so it's perfectly OK.

Look a the wonderful character of Sarah Pa... I mean, Kamala Harris, who defended the use of coerced statements while California AG and kept more black men in chains than the South. Oh, wait. California.... But Orange Man Bad.

Do you remember Inauguration Day 2016, where the Orange Man was such a Nazi and paranoid that it was held behind razor wire while he was surrounded by 25 THOUSAND soldiers - whose loyalty was questioned? Oh, wait. That wasn't him.

Now. I'm telling you that what has resulted is a Very Bad Thing. Now, go back through the blog and count the times I was right. This is another one of those times.

No matter how times the rich kid took your lunch money or stole the cute girl from your pudgy self back in... well, from elementary school to today, smug satisfaction at seeing Orange Man leave blanks out everything else. It means you cannot see that the political class has removed your voice and ensured that no one from outside the political class will ever be elected again. It was a close thing in 2016. Did you really not know why so many Republicans looked exactly the same?

Do you really not know how you got played?

Read Biden's record. Read Harris' record - the part they haven't hidden already (yes, they had to) - and, if you're Crid, get a better cell phone, because the Orange Man will now return to a life of luxury and commercial influence while the criminal political class steals more of your freedoms (that's right here in this blog, too).

"We need to get the blog's 25th Amendment office pool going."
I'll go 1.5 years. Even if he were to Alzheimer out next month, He will be propped up for over a year. The press is used to covering for him being "in the basement" and not saying a coherent sentence no one will notice. And it's too useful to have a ready made scapegoat/puppet, for when the problems you cause are massive and you've already used the blame it on Trump 1,000 times .
It will also be tough to cover up for him in the 22 election primaries stumping for Dem governors and a major sympathy push right then will do wonders for the 22 election polls.

Jimmy Kimmel last night:

Biden announced his ethics plan today.
Apparently his plan is to have ethics.

> You're gonna get screwed, and
> you don't believe it because
> Orange Man Bad is who you are.

That's inane (but nice boldface). You've chosen a game show host as the subject of religious devotion, and you presume he's a central figure in the hearts of others.

> count the times I was right

Raddy… "Oh, wait."

> the Orange Man will now return
> to a life of luxury and
> commercial influence

Unlikely: read. You think his tawdry & ill-gotten material pleasures enhance your decency. You are not well.

According to MSNBC's Eddie Glaude, Biden is like God:

"I'm reminded of the Psalmist, you know, 'He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds'"

There are undoubtedly other people on the left who share Eddie’s view of Biden.

On the other hand, the right hand, you had conservative Mike Lindell (Mr. MyPillow) saying this about Trump: “As I stand before you today, I see the greatest president in history. Of course he is. He was chosen by God,"

And there were undoubtedly many people on the right — particularly, although not exclusively, evangelicals — who shared that view of Trump.

There are undoubtedly other people on the left who share Eddie’s view of Biden. [...] And there were undoubtedly many people on the right — particularly, although not exclusively, evangelicals — who shared that view of Trump. ~ JD at January 20, 2021 11:39 AM

A pious adoration of any politician is misplaced. At best, they're public servants hired to do a job. At worst, they're career embezzlers living off the public teat while doing something a large voting bloc finds beneficial and the other voting blocs can tolerate. Neither merits god-like adoration.

This is what happens when you expose an animal to the phytoestrogens found in soy bean: NSFW

https://mobile.twitter.com/Thegoryend/status/1351705504553177088

Biden is a dope... but Trump was malignant.

The best thing about Biden is that regardless of whatever praise he receives in mass media he will not generate a ravenous horde of devoted conspiracy theory nutcases that are ready and willing to commit murder for him.

In other words... the best part about Biden is that is base is not bat shit crazy.

Dopey leader with a sane base of support is vastly superior to a malignant leader with a base composed largely of racists, lunatics, and racist lunatics.

It's impossible care how foreigners who've never visited and who don't speak the language feel about these matters.

But as it happens, saying weird things about politics in *our* country is perfectly okay with the powers-that-be in Orionland!

> At best, they're public servants
> hired to do a job.

✔ Exactly. Exactly. Exactly...

Growing up in the late 60s and early 70s turns out to have been an enormous advantage. I would read the shit going on in Vietnam and our own cities and in our nation's capital in the newspapers, and then go into civics class in school and be told exactly how suspicious our founding fathers were about the worthlessness of personalities and leadership in political machinery. And it all jelled perfectly.

Conan, about that, here's what I said in 2019:

Admiring individuals in private is one thing, but I learned long ago not to speak in praise, even to close friends, of any politician, for starters. Sooner or later politicians will disappoint you in a very bad way, and you don't want anyone to remember what you said. The same applies to most entertainers. I would have been happy to see Cat Stevens in concert 30-plus years ago, but I would never spend money on him after 1989 - hint, hint. In the same vein, I don't like to go to any campaign rallies for people running for office, per se. (Attending a lecture by a politician is another matter - sometimes.)

As a wise man said (and he definitely had flaws as well):

"...but never be seen tagging along at the tail end of a demonstration; never be found hopping up and down on the fringe of a pop group; and above all never, never strike...There is danger in numbers. They may nudge you into performing an action which is beyond the limits of your chosen style. And in public! The striker makes demands on the dreary grounds that he is one of many, all of whom are alike. But the stylist asks for what he wants in the name of the fact that he is unique. And everything in the world is subject to the law of scarcity value, because deep down, there is only one of each of you. When the time for serious bargaining comes, you will win."
____________________________________________

Or, to put it another way, demonstrations and such became tiresome, sophomoric cliches half a century ago and more, so, if you want to be respected as an intelligent adult, "less is more." The "Silent Majority," years ago, had a ton of power and even managed to use it efficiently, just by voting - as discreet individuals.

Not to mention that even though the majority(?) of the people at the Capitol did not try to get in, had that majority simply stayed home and written icy, formal emails to their representatives and such, instead, the VIOLENT minority would likely have thought twice about becoming violent...and five more people would likely be alive today.

Plus, of course, many highly professional members of that mob were too devoted to behaving like Trump, in cult fashion, to wear masks.

The result? The FBI now has thousands of leads on them from viewers who recognized them.

So, how's that going to look on your resume? For the rest of your life?

As I said at the beginning of my last post...

Lenona, I loved Cat Stevens’ songs when I was growing up (and still do.) I regret never seeing him perform.

Not to mention that even though the majority(?) of the people at the Capitol did not try to get in, had that majority simply stayed home and written icy, formal emails to their representatives and such, instead, the VIOLENT minority would likely have thought twice about becoming violent...and five more people would likely be alive today. ~ Lenona at January 20, 2021 12:58 PM

Interesting that you say that.

After listening to the Federalist podcast on the homeless and the Aurora, CO mayor linked earlier by ahw, I saw another one below it featuring an interview with a person who had attended the president's rally, but not the violent invasion of the Capitol and gave it a listen.

The rally attendee said that admitting he'd attended the rally got him lumped in with the folks who stormed the Capitol and generated calls for his expulsion from Georgetown - this, even though he had neither gone inside the Capitol nor cheered on the people who did.

Luckily, he said he was able to have a few calm discussions with people and tame some of the vitriol aimed his way; not all of it, however. We live in a mean age.

Lenona, I get the Yusuf Islam (nee Cat Stevens) reference. His support for the death fatwa against Salman Rushdie was beyond the pale. He did later walk most of his comments back as bad jokes and attempts to explain Islamic law.

10,000 Maniacs removed "Peace Train" from the In My Tribe album after he voiced support for Rushdie's murder, although the song was included in the later compilation, Campfire Songs - perhaps due to his walk back of his harsher Rushdie comments.

I guess his religious convictions took a back seat to commercial ones.

A pious adoration...

I’m a little fuzzy on my Roman emperor history but I believe that Pious Adoration was the successor to Copious Verbatim, after Copious killed his only son Odious Animo in a fit of rage.

Be cuter

Crid,

You're really going to lose it when they start pushing for DC statehood.

I'll get the popcorn started.

Cat Stevens was always so much less melodic than James Taylor (who actually *knew* the Beatles) that when he went weird & violent, I was totally like good riddance, because wgaf.

> the popcorn

Across oceans distance from America, with your girl-dick in your hand and reading (feebly) through translation software, it's not possible that you could know my feelings about statehood for DC or growing the number of states generally.

Which is okay, because since you don't live here, have never visited, and don't know the language, it's none of your motherfucking concern anyway.

Crid,

You're not special or complicated... and yet you seem convinced that you are.

Apparently no one can discern your feelings about political issues... but you claim with certainty to know not only the location but the full life history of strangers on the internet.

I think you are just cranky because someone put a Biden/Harris bumper sticker on your hover round and you can't bend down to try and peel it off.

> the same applies to most entertainers.

After about 1971 or so (12), I'm proud of my choices. My sister had a Stevens album, but I never borrowed it.

Nonetheless — I regret thinking, for twenty minutes of 1974, that Aerosmith had talented guitar players… But it was only because they'd hired Steve Hunter to play lead on the first two minutes and ten seconds of their breakthrough tune.

He'd played lead here a year earlier.

I met him years later (there as a woman involved) and was able to do him a small courtesy… He was pleasant and warm, and it meant more to me than to him.

> you seem convinced that you are.

No, I'm just certain that you're not from here, don't know the language or the culture, so your opinion carries no weight.

Crid,

All this demonstrates is that you are a very stupid man that is incapable of drawing reasonable conclusions.

Did they also put an "I'm with her" bumper sticker on your hoveround in 2016 and this is now a running gag?

WooHoo! Just has a FANTASITIC overflight of the international space station! Like a shiny piece of gold, flying overhead.

If you live in a place which often has clear skies around dusk and dawn, you should download this software for your Android. (If you have Iphone, may God have mercy upon your immortal soul.)

It's usually best around dawn and dusk when the viewer on the ground (you) has just entered nighttime but the sky above is still in sunshine (or vicey-versy). You can set it up to give you five minutes of warning before a sighting is expected, and you can select the preferred/tolerable brightness. I usually set threshold magnitude to -3. (Mine's set to play Bach as a notification, because I'm a dignified man, and not some animal savage.) Tonight it was really screaming and directly overhead, and then I watched it fall into the Earth's shadow and wink out.

You should do this especially if you have children in your life, because budgets are tightening, and it might be pulled down sometime soon. (And of course, it's vulnerable to debris, though it might still be apparent for some time if uninhabited.) The kids might want to tell *their* kids that they saw it.

> All this demonstrates

You mean 'who is…'

English is tough for beginners, even with good software!

Crid,

This is from the United States government:

https://www.eeoc.gov/sites/default/files/migrated_files/eeoc/litigation/briefs/machmining3.html

"All this demonstrates..."

Are you now contending that the United States government itself isn't from here?

The only thing you are demonstrating is your own massive egocentrism. Anyone who isn't sufficiently like you is apparently foreign.

Since I have demonstrated that the United States government speaks in the same manner I do... perhaps you are the one who isn't from around here.

I don't care how "the United States government speaks." It's amusing, typical, and telling that you think the government has special authenticity in such matters. That's how it works in China, right?

You're not American, you've never been here, you don't know the language.

Your opinion about our topics is irrelevant.

Crid,

Sure... why on earth would you care how people who are definitely from the United States write in a professional capacity.

The point is that you sound astoundingly stupid when you pretend that in a country of close to 330 million people each and every one of them writes and sounds like you do.

If you knew anything about this country at all you would understand how profoundly ignorant that position is.

I'm starting to think everything you say is just projection... you've never really been anywhere have you?

Since I have demonstrated that the United States government speaks in the same manner I do... perhaps you are the one who isn't from around here. ~ Artemis at January 20, 2021 4:32 PM

The reference he's making, Artie, is to the word "that" when referring to a person.

When referring to a person, "who" is used. So, to be proper, your sentence should be "All this demonstrate is that you are a very stupid man who is incapable...."

And, Artie, you might be the only person in the world, certainly on this blog, who thinks the US government is the exemplar of good written English, or good written communications at all.

Conan,

When I was referring to Crid I used the word "you"... when I referred to his specific statement I used the word "that".

Why is this going over your head?

It's blindingly obvious you're not from America, and your desperation to pretend otherwise is tragic (and childlike). But the freedom of our lives would be invisble to you. You don't know what you're missing.

Conan Says:

"All this demonstrates is that you are a very stupid man that is incapable of drawing reasonable conclusions."

There is nowhere in this particular sentence that the word "who" would be appropriate.

"And, Artie, you might be the only person in the world, certainly on this blog, who thinks the US government is the exemplar of good written English, or good written communications at all."

The fundamental issue at hand is not my grasp of English... it is that neither you nor Crid have even a simple grasp of logic or reason.

Let's flesh this out since you don't get it.

Crid insisted that a particular phrase was in some sense proof of national origin outside of the US.

I quoted a legal document from the US government written by people who are guaranteed to be US citizens.

This demonstrates that beyond a shadow of a doubt that US residents and citizens write in the same fashion as I do.

Hence his conclusion was/is unreasonable.

Can you follow this reasoning Conan... or need I go slower?

Crid,

What is blindingly obvious is how very dense you and Conan are.

The logic here is not difficult to grasp, but all you guys can manage to latch onto is your own home brew conspiracy theories.

This is why conservativism is dead... it's adherents cannot think straight even on simple matters of how to draw reasonable conclusions and how to look at evidence.

Are you lonely?

When I was referring to Crid I used the word "you"... when I referred to his specific statement I used the word "that".Artemis at January 20, 2021 5:07 PM

No, Artie. Crid's reference was to your use of the word, "that." His correction of you was "You mean 'who is…'"

In the phrase "All this demonstrates is that you are a very stupid man that is incapable...." it should read "All this demonstrates is that you are a very stupid man who is incapable...." since the second "that" refers to the very stupid man and not to the statement.

There is nowhere in this particular sentence that the word "who" would be appropriate. ~ Artemis at January 20, 2021 5:12 PM

There is one place in that statement in which "who" is very appropriate since it is the correct word to use - the place I demonstrated to you.

Why does English grammar alway seem to go over your head?

Here, Artie. Perhaps this will help.

Conan,

My mistake... because Crid only quoted the first portion of my statement I thought he was referring to that specific portion.

We've been through this before where you haven't recognized that in English there are style choices people can make.

English is not like a mathematical equation.

For example, both of the following statements are correct English:

1 - I am happy that you bought a new car.

2 - I am happy you bought a new car.

This is the "that" I erroneously thought you were referring to in this case.

As for the second "that"... you are correct, it should have been "who".

Conan,

Also, this statement is not exactly fair or reasonable:

"Why does English grammar alway seem to go over your head?"

This is actually the first time you've managed to capture a real error as opposed to some style choice difference we've had or a typo.

This was one I missed and I own my mistakes.

Maybe you could take that as an example to learn from in the future instead of drawing circles on weather maps.

> I thought he was referring
> to that specific portion.

Easy mistake to make when you don't know the language, but you should probably stay away and practice elsewhere for a few more years. It's gotta be embarrassing for you.

Crid,

It is an easy mistake to make because I don't take you seriously.

If the standard around here is one grammar error and you're out then I guess Conan is going with me:

"Why does English grammar alway seem to go over your head?"

The word is spelled "always".

The point being Crid is that you are monumentally deranged if you think native English speakers never... not even once in a blue moon... have an error when writing something without editing.

No one meets the standard you are setting for me.

Not here and not anywhere else.

Artie, I pointed out that your second "that" was the mistake in my 5:04 post. I even italicized the "you" to emphasize it for you. However, you were so convinced you had a way to show me up that you jumped to conclusions and started screeching about something going over my head.

And the comment about the government's English was a joke about the government's English. You really don't have much of a sense of humor, Artie. In the spirit of congeniality, I will concede that sarcasm is sometimes difficult to recognize in writing.

As for Crid's suggestions that you are not American, that's between you and him. You could always tell him where you were born to settle that issue. You won't, but you could.

I even italicized the "you"....

Sorry. That should be "I even italicized the 'who'...."

I even italicized the 'who'...." ~ Conan the Grammarian at January 20, 2021 6:01 PM

Well now, that makes me sound like a weird '60s groupie. "I even italicized The Who."

FTR, origin is not important. Not being American when offering idiotic & hypercritical comments about a nation you've never even visited is the problem. It befouls the forum. Orion's not the first, but is especially shameless.

You can't explain?

Conan,

I'm not convinced I need to show you up.

The fundamental problem here is that you and I are not on good terms.

You very frequently lie, distort, and/or manipulate information and then refuse to acknowledge when you've clearly been in error.

Many times these lies, distortions, and/or manipulations are not simple mistakes but paths you specifically choose for your own ends.

Each and every previous time you've even brought up some style choice I've made it's always been in bad faith and it ended up being nonsense on your part.

This just happened the other day with your capitalization of "affirmative action" issue that you suddenly pretended you never were criticizing me over after I showed you ample evidence including your own previous posts... you couldn't even bring yourself to acknowledge that you jumped the gun and were wrong.

Perhaps if you were more honest I would take what you say more seriously and give you the benefit of the doubt.

As it stands in this instance you were correct and I made a mistake... which for normal adults is not actually a source of embarrassment (as Crid seems to be insisting it should be). Mistakes happen... then we move on, no big deal.

"You really don't have much of a sense of humor, Artie. In the spirit of congeniality, I will concede that sarcasm is sometimes difficult to recognize in writing."

I have a fine sense of humor Conan.

However, one needs to understand the context of the relationship.

Despite how often we chat we are not friends nor are we on friendly terms.

You should joke accordingly and expect an associated response.

If you want to be congenial then be congenial... that means always, not just when you feel like it.

"As for Crid's suggestions that you are not American, that's between you and him. You could always tell him where you were born to settle that issue. You won't, but you could."

Nonsense... I've already made it clear that I've voted in elections in the US.

That by necessity means I am a citizen or at the very least live or have lived in the US legally.

His contention's are not bounded by reason or facts... and you are being dishonest if you insist otherwise.

If you want to be honest and congenial then start by acknowledging that this whole schtick is just stupid and baseless.

If you cannot do that, then you are neither honest nor congenial.

C'mon, people, these are the JOKES!

Tough room....

But the crickets loved it!

You haven't made anything clear, just a bunch of vague posturing. And we love Coney whether or not he's honest or congenial, though he happens to be both. It's an integrity thing.

Crid,

Out of curiosity, since breathing in your own waste products appears to be a habit for you... when you are sniffing your own farts do you waft it gently toward your nose... or have you set up some apparatus composed of flexible tubes that directly connects your sphincter to your nostrils?

I'm really on the fence here because on the one hand I suspect you are too lazy and infirm to waft all day long... but I also don't believe you are bright enough to innovate an engineering solution to your problem.

If you were American, we'd know. If you weren't ashamed of your actual background, we'd know that, too.

Crid,

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it hasn't been made clear.

There are times in life when someone of your limited capacity will not simply not understand what is being explained to them.

Crid,

Nonsense... this is the internet. Anonymity is the fun part.

If you cannot do that, then you are neither honest nor congenial. ~ Artemis at January 20, 2021 6:17 PM

Artie, I tried once to be civil to you and you slapped it down because it wasn't done on your terms.

You just don't do congenial. You've made it abundantly clear you consider yourself morally and intellectually superior to everyone here; that your self-appointed role is to enlighten the benighted ignorati on this blog and that you could learn nothing from anyone here.

As such, you dismiss what others say as lies and distortions, all in an effort to maintain, in your own mind, that superiority.

So, you and I are never going to have a congenial relationship, even a civil one. I'm okay with that. I'm not seeking your approval.

I'd psychoanalyze you as a narcissist who can't stand not being the top student and getting the gold star, the one who drives people away rather than accept them as equals, but I just don't care.

I've also notice that you're spending a lot more time on this blog lately, so i gotta surmise that whatever else was taking up your time is no longer doing so - job, family, hobby, etc. Your attempts to find camaraderie with JD have been pretty obvious, too.

Best of luck to you, Artie. And I hope whatever is going on in your life turns out okay for you.

When you really know the language it's like whatever.

I just watched Springsteen sing “Land of Hope and Dreams” as part of the inauguration celebration.

It was much better than the song performed at Trump’s inauguration: “White House of Insults and Lies.”

Crid,

No American would be under the delusion that the rest of the country speaks or writes with perfect diction at all times.

If you lived here you'd know that.

JD,

My favorite part of the day was the professional press conference complete with facts, evidence, respectful discourse, and documentation for the reporters.

I didn’t see it but that’s a nice change from the previous four years.

Conan Says:

"Artie, I tried once to be civil to you and you slapped it down because it wasn't done on your terms."

My "terms" were actual civility... you don't do civil Conan.

You're problem is two fold. First is that you do not know how to have civil disagreements on substantive issues. Second is that you seem to be incapable of actually acknowledging when you've made an error.

You make them all the time... but because you are constantly obsessed with some imagined pecking order you cannot seem to acknowledge that they have occurred.

Just the other day you insisted that a sizable portion of Democrats believed that Biden won the election through nefarious means... even after I directly quoted the poll you were talking about showing that it made no comment about the direction of fraud you didn't even acknowledge that you had misrepresented the findings entirely.

You could have said that it was a mistake and thanked me for pointing it out... but you simply don't have that in you... and it is a shame because that is the path for personal growth.

The more you insist on drawing circles on weather maps the less you will even take corrective actions on the mistakes you make in life.

Conan Says:

"I've also notice that you're spending a lot more time on this blog lately, so i gotta surmise that whatever else was taking up your time is no longer doing so - job, family, hobby, etc. Your attempts to find camaraderie with JD have been pretty obvious, too."

Everything is still the same on my end. Job is good, family is good with the eldest members slowly getting COVID vaccinations, haven't really had time for a hobby in a long while because things are so busy.

I've been commenting more because there has been a lot going on in the news lately that gets misrepresented here so I like to inject facts and information into this space to fill the void.

As for finding camaraderie with JD... I don't think it is so much an "attempt" on my end as I find that JD seems to be a clear headed thinker who has a reasonable grasp on reality. He also seems interested in honest discussions.

I can get along well with anyone who operates that way.

You get along well with people like Crid... who isn't interested in facts, evidence, or honesty.

There is a phrase that comes to mind in that regard:

"Be wary of the company you keep for they are a reflection of who you are, or who you want to be."

You know fully well that Crid isn't really a person of integrity.

Even if you take him at his word for why he's constantly stirring up trouble it boils down to his belief that he doesn't think that the thoughts and ideas of people outside of America count for anything.

Forget for a moment that I am actually a US citizen... that idea that Crid is putting forth is really xenophobic and disgusting.

Despite that you don't have it in you to tell him to shove it with that nonsense and stick to the relevant facts of the discussion.

I can tell you this much... if JD ever pulled that kind of shit on you I'd tell him to put a sock in it immediately even if it meant that I ended up on his bad side.

I don't need online friends... my integrity is not for sale at any price.

It is a shame that yours seems to be.

Trump: the first president to refuse to go to an inauguration in around 160 years (according to the news.)

What a sore loser. What a big baby.

I don’t like Mike Pence’s religious conservatism but at least he’s a decent human being with some ethics and principles.
No wonder the Magats wanted to hang him.

Anarchist thugs are smashing stuff in downtown Seattle tonight. Apparently some are chanting “Abolish Everything!”

... as I find that JD seems to be a clear headed thinker who has a reasonable grasp on reality. He also seems interested in honest discussions.

Thanks, Artemis. In return, that’s how you appear to me as well.

I like Amy’s blog because it’s a refreshing change from all the ranting progressives on other blogs I frequent. But then I like your “voice” because it’s an alternative to all the ranting conservative-libertarians here.

"JD,
My favorite part of the day was the professional press conference complete with facts, evidence, respectful discourse, and documentation for the reporters."

Leftist press sycophants, barricades, 25,000 troops, and no citizens. I guess Biden/Harris fans couldn't be there because they were too busy:

"Anarchist thugs are smashing stuff in downtown Seattle tonight."

"28 arrests, 11 officers hurt in MLK day protest in Brooklyn, Manhattan"
(ABC7)

"8 arrested after windows smashed at Democratic Party of Oregon building in Northeast Portland" See J20 Protest.

And then Artemis does this, ". . . if JD ever pulled that kind of shit on you I'd tell him to put a sock in it immediately."
So Art's got his propaganda machine in the White House, his enforcers on the street, and his own delusions of importance.
We too will make popcorn; for the disaster movie that is Biden/Harris.

JD,

If there is one thing I detest it is an echo chamber.

It is amazing to me how many folks seek to generate echo chambers for themselves... actively seeking to drive off everyone and anyone who is insufficiently pure in their ideological outlook.

The folks here readily recognize that this happens on left wing sites without seeming to notice what has happened here and what many are actively trying to create.

Spiderfall Says:

"Leftist press sycophants, barricades, 25,000 troops, and no citizens."

Are you seriously wondering why DC was covered with troops during Biden's inauguration?

Do you not remember the howling masses of conservative orcs trying to murder members of Congress just two weeks ago?

You don't get to have a movement that encourages a seditious mob to attack democracy and then have credibility when you complain why there was a lock down for the inauguration.

"So Art's got his propaganda machine in the White House, his enforcers on the street, and his own delusions of importance."

So now they all work for me?

How can I have delusions of importance if your so-called propaganda machine and enforcers on the street are all under my control.

If that were true I'd be pretty damn important.

The sad reality is that people like you don't know how to tell the difference between fiction and fact.

Your head is filled with nonsense conspiracy theories.

"We too will make popcorn; for the disaster movie that is Biden/Harris."

We're already in a disaster movie Spiderfall... the covid pandemic didn't suddenly disappear once Biden and Harris showed up.

We're still likely to see thousands and thousands of deaths because of the mess that already exists.

Furthermore, there is an economic bubble that is likely to pop that was generated by massive tax cuts and zero interest rates.

Trump's mess didn't just disappear the moment he was gone.

What we are currently looking at is a house that has been completely trashed by an irresponsible child... the adults just got home and need to do a massive clean up.

It's not going to get better for a while.

Spiderfall, you’re operating under the delusion that anarchists are Biden/Harris fans.

Do you listen to Infowars?

Artemis, I don’t like echo chambers either.

“The folks here readily recognize that this happens on left wing sites without seeming to notice what has happened here and what many are actively trying to create.”

Well, you know, echo chambers are only bad when they exist in left-wing spaces. When they exist in right-wing/libertarian spaces, they are noble and righteous.

JD,

I don't really understand what Spiderfall is trying to say with their quotes either.

I tried to look them up to get a better understanding but take the MLK protest for example:

Apparently what started off as a peaceful demonstration turned ugly and 28 folks were arrested.

Who are the enforcers they are talking about?... the police?... the demonstrators that turned violent?

None of it makes any rational sense.

I'm not against perpetrators of violence being charged with crimes.

What I am against is police brutality and excessive force being used on citizens.

If citizens commit a crime then subdue and arrest with the minimum force needed to get the job done.

That seems like a pretty reasonable position to me.

barricades, 25,000 troops

Why do you think those barricades and troops are there, Spiderfall?

Do you believe Trump actually won and that the election was stolen from him?

Artemis, I’m sure if one could peer into Spiderfall’s mind, one would see these equations:

Biden/Harris supporters = rampaging violent thugs

Trump supporters = true American patriots, noble and heroic

JD,

I must admit to being amused that Spiderfall apparently thinks I have a propaganda machine in the White House and that I enforcers on the street.

Do you think it would make Spiderfall feel any better if I told them that these imaginary forces have been instructed to stand back and stand by?

Do you two kiss sometimes?

Do you two kiss sometimes? ~ Crid at January 21, 2021 5:57 AM

Nah. They get together when Artie's spouse is away. They swap facts and truth, telling each other that they're so much smarter and more ethical than the right-wing rubes and yokels on this blog. Then they participate in the US tax system together. It's all very bro-mantic.

Conan,

Hey there... would you look at that.

For such a "civil" guy of such "integrity"... when you watch Crid badger people about things like national origin... that is a matter you keep your mouth shut for because it is between Crid and the other poster.

However, when Crid identifies a dangling participle... then you simply must get involved.

You also must get involved when he's busy badgering people on this blog who apparently don't share your political views.

It's almost like you're just the uncivil partisan hack I've been saying you are.

I suppose now that your mask is off and you can't actually convince JD you are a nice guy that he's on your shit list too.

Go figure.

Needless to say, I'm starting to understand why I still have a job at the moment and you don't.

Not possible. Who on this planet would cut you a check?

Artie, when you post forty-plus comments on multiple threads bro-mancing each other, ya gotta expect some ribbing for it.

Whassa matter, you can dish it out but you can't take it?

Yes, Crid's questioning of your national origin is between you and him. As I said, you could settle it easily, but you choose not to. You could also ignore it, but again, you choose not to. That tells him that he's getting to you.

It's not a matter of tolerating xenophobia. It's a matter of social Darwinism. You write at a fourth-grade level and communication in unnecessarily complicated phrases. Instead of "I pay taxes" you say "I participate in the tax system." Instead of "husband" or "wife" you have a "spouse" and insist that's the way people refer to them. Um, no, that's the way wokies refer to them. Most people reserve "spouse" for instances when gender cannot be specified, such as an open invite to an event where spouses may accompany the invitees, but significant others or casual acquaintances may not.

However, when Crid identifies a dangling participle... then you simply must get involved. ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 6:33 AM

No, Artie. What Crid identified in that sentence was not a dangling participle. A participle is a conjugated verb that acts as an adjective - e.g., filtered water. "Filtered" is a verb that modifies the noun, "water."

A dangling participle is one in which the subject being modified is unclear, leaving the reader or listener confused - e.g., "Walking through the kitchen, the smoke alarm was beeping."

Your "that is incapable..." was a subordinate clause describing Crid, the man. You used the wrong relative pronoun. That was the error he identified.

Good grammar lesson.

I suppose now that your mask is off and you can't actually convince JD you are a nice guy that he's on your shit list too. ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 6:33 AM

JD's not on my shit list. I don't really have a shit list for blog posters, since posting here is something I do to pass the time. To have a shit list of blog posters would indicate I'm taking this way too seriously.

Needless to say, I'm starting to understand why I still have a job at the moment and you don't. ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 6:33 AM

No, Artie, you're not.

I left my last job and moved across the country -- to a city in which I'd not lived since I was two years old -- when my father died. I was not let go or fired, as you seem to be implying.

I moved here to handle his estate and spent a year out of work since it was a complex estate. Dad's probate planning was a DIY affair that was not updated after Mom died. There were myriad complications.

Almost one year to the day after Dad died, my brother died. I had to handle his estate, set up a trust for his son, deal with his ex-wife, and learn the complexities of a new county's probate process. With almost two years out of work and no professional network here, I found myself not well-positioned for a job hunt.

I did later find a contract position with an aerospace company, but COVID killed that. The department head to whom I reported immediately offered to give me a glowing recommendation. So, your implication of incompetence misses the mark entirely.

Nice try there, Artie. Notice how even your attempts at insults land with a thud?

Hmm. Of course by "your propoganda machine," I refer to the leftist/media coalition. By "your enforcers" I mean the intimidating mobs, both in the streets and online, the left is using to seize power. As I mention above, your delusions of importance are your own. Showing us JD's leash in your hand confirms that you are not a live-and-let-live kind of guy. Ick.

"anarchists are Biden/Harris fans." If the Vice-President helped post my bail, I'd be a fan too.

"the adults just got home and need to do a massive clean up." They should start with the cities their free-shit armies have ruined.

[Coney- Similar sitch, though with different numbers. These are adult considerations, fulfillment of responsibilities, which Amy's visitor from another land & culture would not comprehend.]

Conan, I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your father and then your brother not long after. That must have been real tough. Was this a brother you were close to?

I lost my father back in 2004 (and my mother in 2010) but, fortunately, none of my four siblings. Yet. Eventually the Grim Reaper will be tapping one of us on the shoulder.

As someone who loves wordplay, I love that term "bromance." Very clever, whoever thought of that. I believe, however, that it's conventionally written without a hyphen.

Fun fact: True Romance was Quentin Tarantino's first movie, although not by directing. He wrote it. And it was probably the start of his bromance with Samuel L. Jackson.

Artemis, I see the narcissist and Conan as analogous to Trump and Pence. As with Pence, I don't agree with Conan's political views (many of them anyway) but I think he's basically a decent person.

The narcissist, on the other hand, is like Trump: overly-inflated sense of self, need for attention, frequent ad hominem attacks on others, an obsession with where someone was born and a near-constant presence on Twitter. In fact a good portmanteau of both names would be this.

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your father and then your brother not long after. That must have been real tough. Was this a brother you were close to? ~ JD at January 21, 2021 9:03 AM

Thank you, JD. We were close enough. There were 9 years separating us, so we connected more as adults than we had as children.

I believe, however, that it's conventionally written without a hyphen. ~ JD at January 21, 2021 9:03 AM

True. I hyphenated it because the autocorrect on my computer would not accept "bromantic" in the earlier post and I was preempting any rejection of "bromance," which it apparently accepts.

[Coney- Similar sitch, though with different numbers. These are adult considerations, fulfillment of responsibilities, which Amy's visitor from another land & culture would not comprehend.] ~ Crid at January 21, 2021 8:59 AM

Condolences.

I'm getting to that age when dealing with death and its aftermath is something to which I'd best become accustomed. The family is getting smaller as both siblings had only one child. As my sister pointed out a few days ago, "There's only two of us. We're all we have left."

Well, at least you connected as adults. I have an older brother that I've never connected with (but then he doesn't connect with any of us siblings.)

Your mention of autocorrect reminds me...

I've been using the dictation feature a lot more when texting because I frequently hit the wrong key on the tiny keypad when typing and it's very annoying. I find that that the text usually comes out very accurate but, when it doesn't, I often crack up at the interpretation. On Monday, for example, I was texting with a friend about Cinque Terre (in Liguria, Italy) and said "Vernazza" (one of the five villages.) It came out as "Menashe", which looks like the name of a rabbi.

Spiderfall, I understand that, in your likely narrow view of the world, where everyone who doesn't think like you must all be in lock-step with each other, you believe that everyone on the left loves Biden but that is definitely not the case.

Crid Says:

"Not possible. Who on this planet would cut you a check?"

Didn't you get the memo Crid... people get paid by direct deposit these days.

An American citizen would know that.

Imagine Biden, losing his wife (after only six years of marriage) and daughter in a horrible car accident. And then losing one of his two sons to brain cancer at only 46.

Contrast that with Trump, who hasn't lost any of his children and only "lost" two wives because he dumped both of them for newer hotter models.

It's no wonder Biden has empathy for others while Trump probably doesn't even know what it is.

Well, unfortunately, the horrible virus rages on around the country but at least we've managed to finally remove it from the White House.

Conan Says:

"Artie, when you post forty-plus comments on multiple threads bro-mancing each other, ya gotta expect some ribbing for it.

Whassa matter, you can dish it out but you can't take it?"

Don't be dense Conan... I've never just at random started "ribbing" you for the bizarre dom/sub relationship you and Crid have going.

It isn't a matter of me dishing it out and not taking it... I haven't dished it out before.

However, since we are on that subject... does Crid let you have a safe word... or did he have you sign some kind of a contract?

"It's not a matter of tolerating xenophobia."

Sure it is Conan.

Let's be very clear about something. You have a penchant for stupid logic and baseless assertions.

For example this whole "You write at a fourth-grade level and communication in unnecessarily complicated phrases." stupidity.

You keep repeating this nonsensical subjective assessment and then use your own opinion as a justification to then assert that clearly I can't possibly hold an advanced degree. You erroneously argue that in some sense "muscle memory" exists that precludes the existence of typographical errors amongst advanced degree holders... then you bitch and moan that Jill Biden has an advanced degree and her thesis doesn't pass muster in terms of typos.

You don't do this because an of it is rational or logical... you do this because you are deeply insecure.

That being said if we want to talk about things like "muscle memory" then if you've even worked in corporate America then you should have a "muscle memory" that should give you a knee jerk response to reject the kind of discourse Crid engages in.

Based on your own type of argument I should conclude that you've never held down a job in the US.

You couldn't possibly have done so because you'd be a massive legal liability to any corporation that hired you.

You see xenophobia and turn a blind eye... but at the same time you wouldn't hesitate to interrupt a meeting to point out the typo in the presenting executives power point presentation.

You cannot argue that a blog is different than the professional environment either... because I've argued that for years and you've never accepted it as a reasonable counter argument.

By your own logic I must conclude you've never actually been employed in the US.

If you can't take it then don't dish it out.

Conan Says:

"No, Artie. What Crid identified in that sentence was not a dangling participle. A participle is a conjugated verb that acts as an adjective - e.g., filtered water."

Dear god you are dense... I wasn't saying that is what occurred in this specific situation. Whenever it suits you, you take everything literally... and then you say other folks don't have a sense of humor.

It was a hypothetical situation where I was using a "dangling participle" as a more humorous sounding example.

The term "dangling participle" is simply more funny than what actually occurred here.

Contrast that with Trump, who hasn't lost any of his children and only "lost" two wives because he dumped both of them for newer hotter models. ~ JD at January 21, 2021 9:49 AM

While not the loss of a child or a spouse, Trump lost his older brother to addiction. The older brother was only 46. He lost a younger brother in August 2020. Distancing himself from sadness and death may be his way of coping.

The Bidens seem to be playing that sympathy card with Beau an awful lot lately.

While we're throwing shade on creepy relationships in presidential families, let's not forget how creepy Hunter's affair with Beau's wife was. Both Joe and Jill approved.

Speaking of Joe and Jill, Jill's first husband maintains that the affair between them started while Jill was still married to him.

Don't be dense Conan... ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 10:03 AM

"Dense" is your new favorite insult, isn't it? Did you get a new calendar for 2021? Turn the page. There will be a new word for you to use on the next page.

Speaking of Joe and Jill, Jill's first husband maintains that the affair between them started while Jill was still married to him. ~ Conan the Grammarian at January 21, 2021 10:17 AM

Sorry, that was bad pronoun usage -- but not a dangling participle. I wouldn't want Artie to call me "dense" yet again.

Let's try this: "Speaking of Joe and Jill, Jill's first husband, Bill Stevenson, maintains that the affair with Joe started while Jill and he were still married." Not perfect, but clearer.

Conan,

I'm sorry to hear about your father and brother... and I'm also sorry to hear about your additional difficulties in the job market afterward.

Here is the part that you don't seem to want to comprehend though.

You've presented no proof of any of this... so if I were like Crid I could simply say I don't believe you and then harangue you for it nonstop for years.

This is something you have aided and abetted.

If you want me to take you seriously on your life stories then you need to be better.

Remember... don't dish it out if you can't take it.

Conan Says:

""Dense" is your new favorite insult, isn't it? Did you get a new calendar for 2021? Turn the page. There will be a new word for you to use on the next page."

Well I mean... "tedious" was already taken since you use it all the time... so I laid claim to "dense".

Seems fair to me.

Spiderfall Says,

"left is using to seize power"

The left doesn't need to "seize" power Spiderfall.

They were elected into power.

They were elected to control the executive branch and both houses of Congress.

The political right on the other hand actually did try to seize power when they violently breached the Capitol building in an effort to subvert democracy.

I'm sorry to hear about your father and brother.... | Here is the part that you don't seem to want to comprehend though. ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 10:33 AM

There's always a "but" to everything you say, Artie. You're not sincere. You don't know how to be.

JD Says:

"Artemis, I see the narcissist and Conan as analogous to Trump and Pence. As with Pence, I don't agree with Conan's political views (many of them anyway) but I think he's basically a decent person."

It is funny that you mention this comparison as this analogy occurred to me earlier as well.

Conan's issue isn't that he isn't "basically a decent person"... it is that he is a moral coward.

If you align yourself with a narcissistic bully because you see social advantage in doing so then you aren't a nice person.

Pence quietly went along with all of Trump's shenanigans for years. Even if I believe that were he President instead of Vice President that he would have operated with greater respect for our institutions and been a better administrator it doesn't change the fact that he basically went along with everything until Trump sent an angry mob to murder him.

Whatever moral compass Conan might have is subordinated to whatever nonsense Crid wants to get up to.

It is therefore in some sense irrelevant to speak about what a decent person Conan might be in the absence of his narcissistic superior... Conan understands where he resides in the pecking order and he doesn't have the moral fortitude to shake the boat.

He operates from a place of fear.

I've tried to encourage him to be his own person, but he doesn't have it in him.

Conan Says:

"There's always a "but" to everything you say, Artie. You're not sincere. You don't know how to be."

It's always the same "but" Conan.

You should treat people the way you want to be treated.

What bothers you most about all of this is that on some level you recognize that I am completely genuine despite not sharing loads of personal details.

Conan Says:

"I hyphenated it because the autocorrect on my computer would not accept "bromantic" in the earlier post and I was preempting any rejection of "bromance," which it apparently accepts."

Well hold the phone here Conan.

I just type what I write directly into Amy's comment box.

You're busy using autocorrect software for your posts?

It seems to me you shouldn't need any of that.

Do you suppose that it is at all possible that one might accumulate typographical errors in the absence of any software assistance?... color me shocked...

No (employed) American could be so gassy.

Crid,

Human beings have demonstrated a capacity for empathy are chatting here.

Sociopaths like you can see yourself out.

What bothers you most about all of this is that on some level you recognize that I am completely genuine despite not sharing loads of personal details. ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 10:50 AM

Artie, the very last word I would use to describe you is "genuine." I don't even think you could fake being genuine.

==========

Well hold the phone here Conan. | I just type what I write directly into Amy's comment box. | You're busy using autocorrect software for your posts? ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 10:56 AM

I'm not "busy" using it. I'm actually quite passive about it.

Safari has built-in autocorrect. It changes any word it doesn't recognize into one it recognizes, without consulting you. So, you have to go back and change the word back to what you originally typed. It's more annoying than helpful.

It doesn't catch everything. If you're more than one letter off the correct spelling it doesn't know what to do and does nothing. And it often mis-guesses what you want to say. So, typing "donst" gets auto-corrected to "honest" instead of "doesn't."

That's why I don't rely on it. I type the comment directly into Amy's Amy's comment box and use her site's {PREVIEW} button to edit both format and content. And yes, Artie, even with that, I sometimes miss typos (see "You write at a fourth-grade level and communication in unnecessarily complicated phrases." in my earlier post).

And it didn't like "bromantic." Still doesn't.

Google Chrome merely highlights with a squiggly line what it thinks are errors, without changing them. I'm sure Microsoft's browsers have similar "assistance" features as well.

Orion's using software in another language, and doesn't recognize our linguistic details and idioms. Imagine the loneliness that would compel one to power through such filtering just to offer bitter criticisms of a culture in which one has no experience.

68% chance Orion is institutionalized; 77% chance unemployed; 92% chance doesn't know *any* American English, even after a (perhaps) short visit; 97.9% is dialing in from a foreign nation, probably Confucian.

Gender 100% indeterminate.

Let's take a moment to imagine China's 'preferred' web browser.

“If you align yourself with a narcissistic bully because you see social advantage in doing so then you aren't a nice person.

Fair point.

Pence finally standing up to Trump doesn’t erase or make up for four years of browning his very white nose but at least he did finally demonstrate that he had some decency and was capable of some ethical behavior.

Conan Says:

"Artie, the very last word I would use to describe you is "genuine.""

Let's be realistic here... you voted for Trump twice.

You obviously cannot identify genuine people from lying con-artists.

That guy is fake as they come and you thought he was "presidential" about a year ago.

JD Says:

"Pence finally standing up to Trump doesn’t erase or make up for four years of browning his very white nose but at least he did finally demonstrate that he had some decency and was capable of some ethical behavior."

And to think... all it took was Trump sending a murderous horde after him chanting "hang Mike Pence".

I have no doubt that if Crid were to hire a hit man to break into Conan's residence and kill him and his family that Conan would offer a strong rebuke and wag his digital finger at him on this forum.

Decent people don't sign onto the kind of toxicity that Crid brings to the table.

I've said for years that Conan is smart enough to know what Crid is doing is wrong... but he is okay with it so long as he feels he is getting something that is aligned with his own goals.

This is actually the fundamental difference between the political left and the political right at this moment in time... it all boils down to how they answer the following question:

"Do the ends justify the means?"

People like you and I typically answer no... people like Pence and Conan typically answer yes.

They will tolerate the Trumps and Crids of this world provided they aren't the target and they feel like they are getting something out of it.

You say the most insulting thing your tepid little software can translate rather than answer the points others raise. It's been going on for years, and you're about to do it again: There's no sting to your words, and your opinions are meaningless, because you have no personal experience with American culture, language or character… so your judgment doesn't matter.

I'll say that again when the time comes. I've been thinking of putting it into a macro to save time— No matter how distant you are from our country which tantalizes you so desperately, you must be capable of comprehension on some animal level… Otherwise, how do you draw nutrients from your environment? Keep reading us, Orion! READ EVERY WORD. There *will* be a test!

Crid,

What points of yours am I supposed to respond to exactly?

This is the quality of your questions:

"Do you two kiss sometimes?" - Crid at January 21, 2021 5:57 AM

You are never on topic or putting forth points of true intellectual merit.

Ask a real question and you'll likely get a real response.

You are an empty vessel and always have been.

And to think... all it took was Trump sending a murderous horde after him chanting "hang Mike Pence".

Well, the murderous horde didn’t prompt Pence’s sudden discovery of ethics (and his backbone.) The horde was after him because of that.

This is actually the fundamental difference between the political left and the political right at this moment in time.

I have to disagree with you there. I think both sides have their extremists, people who can be violent and believe that the ends justify the means. I would agree with you the right probably has more people like that — it certainly seems to have far more conspiracy nuts (“stolen” election, QAnon, Infowars, etc.) — but it doesn’t have an exclusive lock on people like that.

Also, from my experience on various message boards and blogs, people on the left can be very uncivil. They can hurl invectives and belittle people who disagree with them just like those on the right do. Again, I don’t see it as much as I do from the right but, on the other hand, sometimes it can even be worse.

For example, one blog I’m on has about 90% lefties and the rest non-lefties, and many (not all) of the lefties always attack, insult and belittle anyone who has a different opinion. It’s much worse than here. It’s like a large snarling pack of Crump clones, only on the left.

JD,

FYI... I think I've tracked down the source for Conan's nonsense about assessing writing level.

You'll be pleased to discover that based on the recent posts the results are as follows:

JD = 9th grade level based on post at January 21, 2021 12:10 PM
Crid = 9th grade level based on post at January 21, 2021 1:06 PM
Artemis = 7th grade level based on post at January 21, 2021 12:28 PM
Conan = 6th grade level based on post at January 21, 2021 11:54 AM

Needless to say is appears as if Conan is the bottom of the bunch.

Then again the entire claim is deeply flawed because all the readability analyzer does is it determines the grade level where the average student would likely understand what was written.

If you identify a passage short enough you are likely to generate any number of responses.

I'd love it if Conan could produce a block of text I've ever written that is at least 30 sentences in length that generates a SMOG Grade output of 4.

As I've told you before... nothing he ever claims is ever as it seems. There is always a catch, or a qualification, or a technicality, or some half truth involved.

I mean Conan's post at January 21, 2021 10:22 AM produces an output of 1st grade level.

I suppose I am justified now to claim that Conan writes at a 1st grade level.

JD Says:

"I have to disagree with you there. I think both sides have their extremists, people who can be violent and believe that the ends justify the means. I would agree with you the right probably has more people like that — it certainly seems to have far more conspiracy nuts (“stolen” election, QAnon, Infowars, etc.) — but it doesn’t have an exclusive lock on people like that."

This isn't a point of disagreement actually.

I am speaking from a probabilistic standpoint only.

I simply mean that taking representative population from the left and the right I suspect you would get a higher percentage of responses aligned with the proposition that the ends justify the means from folks on the right.

Almost nothing in life is exclusive to one group of people.

That's why I added the words "typically" here:

"People like you and I typically answer no... people like Pence and Conan typically answer yes."

"Do the ends justify the means?" ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 12:28 PM

Artie, you presume too much. I have never advocated that the ends justify the means.

This is why I say you're not genuine and why I say your thinking is rigid. You don't have political beliefs or a core philosophy. You have the talking points of whatever side you've aligned yourself with, holding those talking points as absolute truth.

A genuine person could have a disagreement about politics without impugning the ethics of the other person. You cannot. To you, anyone who disagrees with the side you've chosen is immoral, by default. You cannot imagine a world in which you are not on the side of the moral authority on every issue.

God help you if the Democrats do use the Capitol riot as a pretext for a power grab. You'll go along with it and defend it as morally justified. You'll be down at the rail yard helping to load the freight cars for the re-education camps, cattle prod sizzling as you drive this immoral Republicans forward.

Life has few absolutes, Artie. Republicans are right about some things, as are Democrats. And sometimes, they're both right, even if they're on opposite sides of the same issue.

As Master Po asked, "Where is the evil, in the cat who kills the rat, or in the rat who steals the grain?"

Yours, Artie, is a child's absolutist viewpoint. It's a sign of your immaturity. I hope you grow up some day.

==========

Artie, read Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. In it, the antichrist is a twelve-year-old boy so frustrated that the world does not conform to his view of what it should be that he thinks the only way to fix it is to destroy the world and start over. That's you, Artie, a twelve-year-old boy demanding the world be what he wants it to be, unable to accept it for what it is; unable to accept that the people who are not on your side might be good people.

The Amazon series was pretty good, but it didn't quite capture the subtleties of the book.

Conan Says:

"I have never advocated that the ends justify the means."

What you have advocated for was a Trump presidency despite his authoritarian tendencies, lack of ability and willingness to do the job, and lack of ethics to uphold out democratic institutions.

You supported his nonsense because you wanted certain policies and conservative judges installed.

That is the ends justifying the means.

"This is why I say you're not genuine and why I say your thinking is rigid. You don't have political beliefs or a core philosophy."

My core philosophy is adherence to the truth.

You should try it some time.

Conan,

FYI... your post at January 21, 2021 2:40 PM was apparently written at 7th grade level.

I just checked mine at January 21, 2021 2:47 PM and it turns out it is written at 9th grade level.

It seems to me that on average you consistently write with the least sophistication based on your own evaluation methodology.

Now you know as well as I do that this entire exercise is dishonest... but honestly just isn't your thing.

Conan Says:

"A genuine person could have a disagreement about politics without impugning the ethics of the other person."

Followed almost immediately by:

"God help you if the Democrats do use the Capitol riot as a pretext for a power grab. You'll go along with it and defend it as morally justified. You'll be down at the rail yard helping to load the freight cars for the re-education camps, cattle prod sizzling as you drive this immoral Republicans forward."

You're one sick puppy Conan.

No one is going after conservatives in the manner you suggest.

The white nationalists, white supremacists, and neo-nazi's pretty much all wave Trump flags... they are on your side of the political spectrum.

Also... what's with deeply partisan conservatives calling democratically won elections a "power grab"?

Democrats won the Presidency and the legislature in a democratic election.

Right wing Trump supporters attempted to murder members of Congress to subvert the democratic process and overthrow the government.

Then we've got folks like Conan theorizing about a "power grab" by the Democrats.

They don't need to "grab" power... they were elected into power.

It's always so (not) interesting to watch the boys on the short bus compare dick size.

None of you are as bright as you think you are.

I guess that's what goes for witty banter among grammar-nazis these days. Perhaps y'all could take it offline?

Joe Anon,

I've been asking these folks to quit it for years... it's not happening.

Artemis, by “power grab”, I believe Conan is referring to his man Mitch preventing Obama from putting Merrick Garland on the Supreme Court during his final (almost) year in the White House.

JD,

Yeah... it basically translates into... "Democrats better not do what Republicans would do if they controlled the Presidency and both houses of Congress!!!"

All he can do is complain at this point and then talk about conservatives being hauled onto trains for execution.

That isn't something on the Democrats political agenda... statehood for DC and Puerto Rico might be though.

Perhaps that is what he means by a "power grab"... enfranchising US citizens who would like full representation.

Who knows.

> It's always so (not) interesting

Don't read it… no one will care.

Crid,

There you go again... telling potentially new posters to get lost.

It seems to me that on average you consistently write with the least sophistication based on your own evaluation methodology. ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 2:53 PM

Artie, one test does not make a widely-applicable average.

I tested four of your posts all from different threads and dates when I got the fourth grade level results back.

As for my evaluation methodology, did you use the same testing service? Did you exclude the parts where others were quoted? I thought not.

As for "the least sophistication," compared to what? This is like you saying that I'm "regarded as the most dishonest interlocutor on this forum" and providing only one quote to back that up. "Most" dishonest with only one quote? Weak sauce, Artie.

...what's with deeply partisan conservatives calling democratically won elections a "power grab"? ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 3:05 PM

Nice misdirection there, Artie.

No one called democratically won elections a "power grab." A power grab would be using the Capitol riot as a pretext to "unseat" or purge the opposing party, thus increasing one's own party's representation and diminish the other party's influence - e.g., what the NSDAP did after the Reichstag Fire in 1934. And the conjecture was "...if the Democrats use...."

No one is going after conservatives in the manner you suggest. ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 2:58 PM

Not yet, but prominent Democrats and supporters have advocated actions very close to a political purge - e.g., "We should not allow the following groups of people to profit from their experience: Those who elected him. Those who staffed his government. Those who funded him."

So, the 63 million people who voted for him in 2016 should be punished, their political choices nullified, their voices silenced?

Democrat Bill Pascrell (D-N.J.) urged Nancy Pelosi not to seat 126 Republicans who filed an amicus brief in a Texas lawsuit.

How soon until those re-education camps are up and running?

Artie, I'll be happy if the Democrats govern like Democrats past, to the left of center. But these are not the Democrats past. Too many of them have vengeance on their minds and very little idea that they could go too far.

Careless rhetoric, Artie, leads to careless actions. Look at what happened on January 6th.

...down at the rail yard helping to load the freight cars for the re-education camps, cattle prod sizzling as you drive this immoral Republicans forward.

Yee-haw! I can’t wait. I just ordered my cattle prod from Amazon.

Hot Shot DX36 Duraprod Livestock Prod with RH36. Only $115 and Made in the U.S.A. (U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.!)

The finest livestock prod on the market today, the DuraProd is designed for user comfort and safety. Features include patented technology to reduce feedback shock, sealed circuitry, rubber handle grip to reduce fatigue, oversized trigger, hand guard, built-in safety switch to reduce accidental use, and snap-on battery pack (included) for fast battery changes without tools.

Note: The actual length of the shaft is 27.75" (which is nowhere near as big as the shaft that Conan’s man Mitch gave to President Obama and liberals.)

I’m thinking a branding iron might be nice too.

Artemis, by “power grab”, I believe Conan is referring to his man Mitch preventing Obama from putting Merrick Garland on the Supreme Court during his final (almost) year in the White House. ~ JD at January 21, 2021 3:13 PM

Nope, JD. That was a lesson in power politics.

Obama never took the time to learn how the game was played. He'd only served a partial term in the Senate so he had no power base there.

As president, he had relied too much on Democrats in the House and their short-lived Senate majority to get his agenda through Congress. With no power base, he had no leverage and so could only sit back and watch as McConnell denied him.

LBJ was a master at power politics, both in the Senate and in the White House and would never have allowed himself to be in that position.

It will be interesting to see what kind of power base Biden's 38 years in the Senate have given him there. Of course, we won't know unless the Republicans take the Senate back and he has to wield that power.

Harris has a similar issue to Obama's. She wasn't in the Senate long enough to collect a book of favors owed to her.

> telling potentially new
> posters to get lost.

Dishonest idiots from overseas are unwelcome indeed.

"Potentially new posters...."

Yee-haw! I can’t wait. I just ordered my cattle prod from Amazon. ~ JD at January 21, 2021 3:53 PM

Don't get me wrong, JD. It would take a lot to get the US to that point. In truth, I don't think we could get there - driven by either party or even both if they decided to cooperate.

If we did, however, Artie's just the kind of true believer who would be only to happy to punish the wicked.

The rhetoric on both sides of the aisle is getting sloppy and extreme lately. And the party leadership of both parties is not acting to moderate the heated emotions. Pelosi called the Republicans "enemies of the state." McConnell, McCarthy, and Pence have at least stepped back from the precipice.

Conan Says:

"Artie, one test does not make a widely-applicable average.

I tested four of your posts all from different threads and dates when I got the fourth grade level results back.

As for my evaluation methodology, did you use the same testing service? Did you exclude the parts where others were quoted? I thought not."

Coney... none of what you did was legitimate.

Either you understand this and are dishonest... or you do not understand this and should refrain from trying to do studies of anything on your own when you clearly do not understand how to interpret the findings.

Let's be clear on what the tests in question actually show... they show that the writing sample in question would be understandable if placed in front of an average reader from a particular grade level.

It doesn't mean that the author writes at that grade level... or that the chosen writing sample is in some sense indicative of their writing abilities overall.

People write at varying levels of sophistication depending upon the audience, what the subject matter entails, if they are writing casually or professionally, etc...

If I for example were to compose a birthday card for an 8 year old... it would be monumentally stupid of me to write in the same style and with the same kind of vocabulary as I might choose for a professional publication. I would write the birthday card in a manner suitable for that 8 year old to understand.

Taking that writing sample and then saying it is evidence that I write at 3rd grade level would be utterly dishonest.

All it means is that I am capable of composing a written work that a 3rd grader could read and understand.

Typically people do not write or speak at the very apex of their language abilities in all situations... and for anyone that does do this and cannot do otherwise... something is probably wrong with them.

If you are the least bit interested in actually getting an understanding of someone's writing proficiency the logical thing to do would take a sample of their best writing... not just random samples.

Let me give you an example of what I mean (and yes Conan... in the examples where your writing level was the lowest in the group here I excluded quotes from other authors... that was not some difficult thing to observe).

http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2021/01/what-me-due-pro.html#comments

At the end of this discussion, which we just had a few days ago I took some time to compose a thought out explanation for the kinds of things we might do to address election security concerns in this country.

If we take this writing sample and analyze it the SMOG Grade (which requires 30 sentences or more) comes out to 14.44 and the Fry Readability Grade Level (which requires a text length of at least 100 words) comes out to 14.

In other words... according to the readability analyzer it would take someone with the education of at least the average sophomore or junior in college to have a reasonable chance of understanding what I wrote.

I do not typically write this way because I want people without college educations to understand what I am saying.

That writing sample still isn't the kind of writing I would publish. My published work would essentially be indecipherable to someone outside of my field of expertise... the jargon, acronyms, and technical background necessary to understand requires very specialized knowledge.

Now if I take your writing sample from that same thread posted at January 15, 2021 6:49 PM and perform the same analysis I get the following results:

SMOG Grade (which requires 30 sentences or more) comes out to 11.59 and the Fry Readability Grade Level (which requires a text length of at least 100 words) comes out to 10.

Meaning that you were writing at a level that a typical high school graduate could understand.

In that conversation I was writing 4 full grade levels above you... well into college graduate level.

Yet I wouldn't presume that you were incapable of writing in a more sophisticated way.

All that tells me is your lower limit.

You can always write more casually or limit the complexity of your sentence structure or chose more easily understood vocabulary.

I do that all the time when chatting with people.

Only a pompous ass would constantly talk to everyone they run into at a level only college graduates are likely to comprehend.

In that conversation I was writing 4 full grade levels above you... well into college graduate level. ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 4:22 PM

Wow. I'm living rent-free in your head with that fourth-grade writing thing.

Don't you have work to do? Didn't you just try to insult me with "...I still have a job at the moment and you don't." earlier in this very thread? not much of a job if you've got all day to spend arguing on this thread.

Oh, and Artie, your writing still sucks, no matter what an Internet test tells you.

Conan Says:

"A power grab would be using the Capitol riot as a pretext to "unseat" or purge the opposing party, thus increasing one's own party's representation and diminish the other party's influence"

No one should just be randomly "purging" anyone.

The problem Conan is that it appears as if some Republican members of Congress were involved in the crimes that took place.

Members of Congress are not and should not be immune to criminal prosecution if they were involved in this seditious conspiracy.

Furthermore, removal of any members that were criminally involved doesn't necessarily boost Democrat representation.

Those members are replaced either by gubernatorial appointment or special run-off elections.

The Democrats don't select who fills the vacant seats.

You are standing on very shaky ground when your argument really boils down to the following nonsensical construction:

You propose that it is a "power grab" to remove members of Congress who criminally participated in an illegal attempt to overthrow the US government.

All you are basically saying is that you are okay with violent power grabs by Republican members of Congress... but removing them afterward is in some sense the real "power grab".

They should just be able to commit crimes without consequences apparently.

Conan,

See that... you made a mistake and you cannot acknowledge it.

You screwed up Conan.

It would be nice if for once in your life you could just say "oops... I was wrong".

Conan Says:

"Oh, and Artie, your writing still sucks, no matter what an Internet test tells you."

So now the internet test doesn't count anymore... go figure.

Something tells me you checked and I was correct... so now you reject the test you've been ranting about.

This is just like that time you jumped in to correct me on my word usage and when I showed you a usage guidance from the dictionary you rejected the dictionary as not being authoritative when it comes to how the English language is used.

JD,

Isn't it wonderful when we have "reasonable" folks like Conan insisting that holding criminals accountable is in some sense a "power grab"... but stone walling SC appointments for about a year is just a "lesson in power politics."

Conan Says:

"The rhetoric on both sides of the aisle is getting sloppy and extreme lately. And the party leadership of both parties is not acting to moderate the heated emotions. Pelosi called the Republicans "enemies of the state." McConnell, McCarthy, and Pence have at least stepped back from the precipice."

Let's not forget when you were busy concocting excuses for Trump Conan:

""Declaring the free press an 'enemy of the people'..."

Is that worse than a VP declaring the press to be "nattering nabobs of negativism" or a president claiming the press to be so hostile that if he walked across the Potomac the headline would read, "President Can't Swim?"

"...and shutting them out of press briefings?"

Is that worse than a past president declaring a hostile network "not a legitimate news network" and freezing its reporters out, even at one point trying to have them removed from the press pool?

"Publicly questioning the legitimacy of a "so-called judge" for ruling against him?"

That was done by candidate Trump, not President Trump. And the judge has not faced any subsequent pressure from the Trump administration." - Conan the Grammarian at September 11, 2017 1:02 PM

For someone who didn't seem to care at all that Trump was busy calling the press the "enemy of the people" for years... which resulted in the press being physically intimidated and attacked at multiple campaign events... and this kind of toxic rhetoric ultimately turning into a full blown seditious assault on our democracy... you don't get to clutch your pearls and catch the vapors because Pelosi called the Republicans "enemies of the state.".

I get to say that this kind of rhetoric isn't particularly helpful... you get to sit down and keep your mouth shut while you think carefully about what you did.

Crid,

Do us all a favor and don't write it. No one will miss it.

In fact, most posters will be grateful not to have to weed through it and scroll past it.

This site needs a way to block comments by selected posters, as a way to take out the trash and keep the comments readable.

Joe, kitten, if you don't want to read it, or 'weed through it,' or are too timid to offer even pseudonymous critique, go away. If you prefer processed, comforting opinions, you'll find them elsewhere.

...you get to sit down and keep your mouth shut while you think carefully about what you did. ~ Artemis at January 22, 2021 2:09 AM

You get to bite my shiny metal ass, Artie. The presumption that you, of all people, can tell anyone here what to do is delusional on a grand scale.

==========

So now the internet test doesn't count anymore... go figure. ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 4:53 PM

It still counts. You write at a fourth grade level.

==========

The problem Conan is that it appears as if some Republican members of Congress were involved in the crimes that took place. ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 4:48 PM

The prove it in a court of law. If convicted, those members can be removed in accordance with laws and rules.

"Appears" is a power grab, Artie. Convicted is not. Why is the concept of the "rule of law" so difficult for you to grasp?

==========

...stone walling SC appointments for about a year is just a "lesson in power politics. ~ Artemis at January 21, 2021 4:59 PM

Because that was not a power grab, Artie. That was the legislative body assigned the task of reviewing an appointment declining to do so and a president having no power or leverage to compel a hearing.

Arbitrary rejection of presidential appointments has a long history in this country, Artie.

• George Washington nominated Benjamin Fishbourn of Georgia to a federal position. His nomination was arbitrarily rejected by the Senate because Fishbourn has once offended James Gunn, one of Georgia's two senators.
• South Carolina's John Rutledge was given a recess appointment as Supreme Court Chief Justice in 1795. He took his seat in August and was immediately rejected by the Senate several months later.
• James Madison proposed Albert Gallatin for Secretary of State. The Senate immediately informed Madison that Gallatin would be rejected. Maryland's Senator Samuel Smith wanted his brother to have that position. Gallatin refused to go along with a back room deal and Smith was appointed instead. JQA later observed that, had Gallatin gotten the job, the War of 1812 likely would not have occurred.

The rejection of presidential nominees is often based on little more than individual senators' personal preferences. That's how the game is played, Artie. Always has been.

So yes, the Garland rejection was power politics. Had Obama built enough skin in the game over time, he might have had leverage over McConnell, but he didn't and so could not compel a hearing.

The arbitrary rejection of Garland did not in any way move one party into power over the other without an election. Congressional leaders and presidents of different parties have always been at odds, and always will be.

Nothing in the constitution guarantees the a presidential appointment has to be accepted by the Senate, nor does anything preclude arbitrary rejection of a nomination by the Senate.

Conan,

Do you have anything at all to say about Crid's habit of telling anyone and everyone who doesn't like the way he operates to go elsewhere?

What are your thoughts?

Does he have some kind of incriminating photos on you that prevent you from offering an opinion?

Post a link to a "signal for help" if you need us to get you out of this abusive relationship.

JD is convinced that you're just a decent guy whose fallen in with a bad crowd... but your silence doesn't suggest you are decent at all... it suggests you are a moral coward.

If your stance is that you just don't want to get involved it makes it all the more suspicious why you would chose to sometimes get involved to provide support for his antisocial antics when it suits you.

That doesn't make you a neutral party.

Conan Says:

"You get to bite my shiny metal ass, Artie. The presumption that you, of all people, can tell anyone here what to do is delusional on a grand scale."

I'll talk to you as I please Conan... you certainly do not feel limited in how you talk to people.

You feel at liberty to liken people to Nazi's and autocrats at the proverbial drop of a hat.

This is always the problem with you... you toss out terms like "presumption" as if you are sitting on a throne somewhere and taking great umbrage at the gall of some member of the unwashed masses talking back to you.

You're a nobody Conan. It isn't the least bit presumptuous for me to point out that you are a hypocrite of outrageous proportions to defend Trump's corrosive rhetoric for ~5 years... only to instantly clutch your pearls at the state of political discourse once he is out of office... only to lay the blame at the feet of the Democrats and exonerate the Republicans in the same breath.

You simply cannot be that obtuse... no one can be that profoundly stupid... I must therefore conclude you know what you are saying is fundamentally dishonest and you do not care.

So yes... you can sit down and shut up... your going to be wearing Trump's stink for years Conan. That was your choice, now you get to live with it.

Conan Says:

"It still counts. You write at a fourth grade level."

No Conan... let me explain this for you once again so that it gets through your thick skull.

There is a difference between saying someone writes at a fourth grade level... and saying this program indicates that this particular writing sample would be understandable by someone who reads at a 4th grade level.

That you cannot understand this distinction only underscores how limited your data analysis skills are.

You do realize that one the the principle functions of the tools you are using is to help authors make their writing more accessible, right?

In other words, those tools exist to aid authors in writing at a level their audience would likely understand.

It helps them tone down difficult vocabulary and simplify complex sentence structure to reach a wider readership.

Based on your way of thinking these tools exist to make authors appear unintelligent.

Simply put... you never seem to understand anything in the world around you. To be honest I kind of feel sorry for you... but you are kind of an asshole so I don't feel sorry for very long.

You took three swings at one ball: That's not how the American game is played, even by fourth-graders.

“Do us all a favor and don't write it. No one will miss it.

Joe, you’re whistling into the wind there.

You’re addressing a narcissist. A narcissist cares only about themself. They’re not interested in doing a favor for you or anyone else.

A narcissist craves attention and believes that everyone is — or should be — captivated by what they write or say or do.

Conan,

Democrats attempting to admit D.C. and Puerto Rico as states: power grab or power politics?

Democrats attempting to add more justices to the Supreme Court: power grab or power politics?

Conan Says:

"Because that was not a power grab, Artie. That was the legislative body assigned the task of reviewing an appointment declining to do so and a president having no power or leverage to compel a hearing."

It is a perverse reading of the "advice and consent" clause to suggest that it's intended meaning was for the Senate to refuse a hearing altogether.

They have a right to provide advice and consent. That simply is not possible without having a hearing upon which to base that advice or consent.

It is nothing less than a complete abrogation of their constitutional duty to just cross their arms and refuse to hold a hearing at all.

They could have had a hearing and rejected the appointment... that would have been the proper exercise of their authority.

"Had Obama built enough skin in the game over time, he might have had leverage over McConnell, but he didn't and so could not compel a hearing."

This is a profoundly stupid argument in light of your previous statement here:

"It will be interesting to see what kind of power base Biden's 38 years in the Senate have given him there."

It's almost like you have no idea that Biden was Obama's VP.

You keep throwing Obama under the bus for some lack of Senate experience that would have enabled him to negotiate the process with a seasoned veteran like McConnell... that the problem wasn't that McConnell engaged in a type of obstructionist legislative process never seen before in American politics.

And no... McConnell didn't invent the filibuster... he didn't invent all of his obstructionist tactics.

He simply used them in a fashion and to a degree that made the government completely dysfunctional as a body where compromise is possible.

As you point out, Biden was in the Senate for decades... he was Obama's VP and the President of the Senate during the time all of this was going on.

The issue was not a lack of experience on Obama's part... the issue was that he was a dupe.

He could have put Garland up as a recess appointment and there was nothing McConnell or anyone else could have done to stop him.

In other words... he opted not to play power politics so as to give the Republican party an opportunity to provide substantive "advice and consent" as per the Constitution... and McConnell essentially informed him that he was a fool for even giving him a chance to be involved at all.

Nothing in the constitution guarantees that Congress gets an immediate say in an appointment made during recess for a presidential appointment.

The pathetic thing about all of this is had Obama put in Garland as a recess appointment you would have been bitching up a storm about how it was a "power grab" and how he was an authoritarian... but when he doesn't and tried to goes through the full congressional process you regard him as a sucker who can't play "power politics".

That event should be instructive for Democrats moving forward... to people like you they are damned if they do and suckers if they don't.

Crid Says:

"You took three swings at one ball"

Conan never just throws one ball... that is what the Gish Gallop is all about.

Conan sees the batter at the plate and just keeps throwing.

Metaphor is lost on foreigners

“He could have put Garland up as a recess appointment and there was nothing McConnell or anyone else could have done to stop him.”

Artemis, I wasn’t aware of that so I looked it up.

What you said appears to be correct. However it also looks like Garland’s appointment under that method would’ve only been temporary, through the end of Obama‘s term. And since Trump beat Clinton, we would’ve ended up with a conservative on the Supreme Court anyway.

JD,

Yes, the recess appointment is not permanent... but it would have put Obamas justice on the court for some key decisions that would have set binding precedent.

Because Obama tried to play it straight those decisions were split 4-4 and hence were not binding.

That is what is so gross about Conan's "power politics" nonsense.

Obama could have played power politics... it wasn't even that difficult and as a constitutional law professor he was well aware of that option.

He was a better man that Conan would ever give him credit.

And when he played it straight and tried to get Congress involved Conan is sitting here laughing at him for not understanding how the game is played.

At the same time he is worried about "power grabs" now that Republicans are essentially powerless.

None of this is serious for him... he doesn't actually care about constitutional procedure or our institutions.

I'm sure he'll whine and complain if the legislative filibuster is done away with as well... but that isn't guaranteed in the Constitution either.

JD,

I'll go one step further... some Republican Senators even went on record stating that if Clinton had won in 2016 they had every intention of not filling that SC seat for her entire 4 years in office:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/clinton-wins-gop-say-no-9-supreme-court

"But several Republicans have said if the voters elect Clinton, they’ll block her nominees, effectively abandoning their advice and consent role for her entire term.

“If Hillary Clinton becomes president, I am going to do everything I can do to make sure four years from now, we still got an opening on the Supreme Court,” North Carolina Sen. Richard Burr said in an audio recording of his meeting with GOP volunteers on Saturday. CNN obtained a copy of the audio."

But now they want to whine and complain about the potential for adding more justices.

To Conan none of this is a "power grab"... it's just smart Republican politics.

What Conan insists on is one set of rules for the people he supports and an entirely difference set of rules for the people he does not support.

He loves power grabs and slimy maneuvers... but only in one direction.

He waxes poetic about political intrigue and the behind the scenes power brokering when Republicans pull a fast one... but when Democrats get elected into power he quickly wants baseless investigations to dominate the political discourse and downplays a seditious and murderous mob as analogous to a bunch of folks on a zany adventure.

Even when it is clear that Republicans have been voted into the minority by the will of the people he then focuses his attention on so-called "power grabs" by the people who were rightfully elected into power.

He's simply not a serious, thoughtful, or philosophically consistent person when it comes to political conversations. Never has been and never will be.

“Yes, the recess appointment is not permanent... but it would have put Obamas justice on the court for some key decisions that would have set binding precedent.“

Good point.

After seven years of dealing with him and knowing how he operates, I do have to admit that it seems like Obama was quite naive to think that McConnell would show any decency and respect.

JD,

I agree with you completely Obama was extremely naive in thinking that McConnell would ever "play fair" as it were.

This is why it is so very disingenuous when folks like Conan (but he is not alone in doing this... not by a long shot) simultaneously tar Obama as an "authoritarian" for issuing executive orders in areas where he felt he could reasonably get around the complete legislative blockade set in front of him... and then later as a political neophyte that lacked the sophistication and knowledge to really play "power politics" with the big boys.

This kind of rhetoric is straight out of the fascist playbook where "a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak".

Conan is aware that Obama could have put Garland on the court without McConnell... and if Obama had done it he would call it an example of how authoritarian the left is... and when Obama didn't do it and McConnell pulled a stunt never seen before in our legislature... he then calls it a "lesson in power politics".

Yet at the same time he is constantly nervous that maybe... just maybe the Democrats learned their lesson... and if they have actually learned anything he is prepared to call it a "power grab".

It's all a game to him... there is no actual adherence to truth or guiding principles.

JD,

Now that I think about it... what Obama should have probably done is a recess appointment for the most left wing justice he could possibly find.

Then when the Republicans lost their minds over the whole thing he could have nominated Merrick Garland for immediate consideration as a permanent replacement.

Then the Republicans would have had to choose between confirming a center-right justice... and a super left wing recess appointment already on the court.

I am not entirely sure if the recess appointment would get replaced immediately or not, but that would have been one way to apply immense political pressure to the Senate.

But instead he tried to play it fair and now folks like Conan are laughing at him for it.

“Conan is aware that Obama could have put Garland on the court without McConnell... and if Obama had done it he would call it an example of how authoritarian the left is...

I suspect you’re right, that Conan would’ve bitched about that.

In other unsurprising news... I really should have known better than to think that Crid or Conan are ever correct about anything.

https://grammarist.com/usage/that-who/

"Most writers use that and whichas the relative pronouns for inanimate objects, and who as the relative pronoun for humans. This widespread habit has led to the mistaken belief that using that in reference to humans is an error. In fact, while most editors prefer who for people, there is no rule saying we can’t use that, and that has been widely used in reference to people for many centuries."