This guy is how Trump enthusiasts will be typified in history books.

Fine by me, @Crid. It's about time men, no matter how straight they are, start to call out crybullies and blueanons.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2021/03/05/colorado-oil-gas-the-north-face-award/

Yeah, that's fine. A colorful goofball. Not really scary. 10 years ago he would have been beating a drum in Zuccotti Park.

But he won an Emmy:

https://twitter.com/bungarsargon/status/1369299830141509639

French schoolgirl, 13, admits MAKING UP story that sparked a teenage Jihadi to behead teacher Samuel Paty

https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1369266758796910594

Jesus Christ, they might as well make them play poker and make the winner keep her job:

https://twitter.com/LEBassett/status/1369349911620292610

Wondering if this will be repeated, as the President and Congress conspire to violate 8 USC 1132.

> It's about time men, no matter
> how straight they are, start to
> call out crybullies and blueanons.

I can't imagine what point you're trying to make.

> Yeah, that's fine. A
> colorful goofball.

If "not really scary" affirms/defends your school of thought, that's fine.

> It's about time men, no matter
> how straight they are, start to
> call out crybullies and blueanons.

I mean, who (in particular) is straight, and who's the "crybully," and what's a "blueanon"?

> French schoolgirl, 13, admits
> MAKING UP story that sparked a
> teenage Jihadi to behead
> teacher Samuel Paty

You've already read it, so tell us, because I seriously trust you—

(1.) What was going on in that kid's home?

(2.) What could anyone ever say to convince you or me to decapitate someone?

(3.) Did the schoolgirl and the 'teenage Jihadi' share a heritage?

I heart the little skootchy guys at :14.

Who am I kidding? The 'chefs' truck at :28 has the wine.

Has anyone noticed that day-by-day, our President's plastic surgeries are as apparent, as howlingly obvious, as those of anyone from Hollywood or any figure in public life? If he and Madonna had lunch, you'd want medicos and makeup artists at hand, just beyond camera view, at both ends of the table.

This Delaware teddy bear has been loved for a very long time, and it seems like his stuffing is likely to spill out at any moment.

Seriously! As some forgotten columnist asked, what are the first hundred days of the Biden administration even trying to be remembered for?

Other than 'The Chief Executive is still continent!… No, really!'

There's a particular Twitter feed based in Britain, and so I ask of you:
What is the quintessence of European sophistication?

"our President's plastic surgeries "

Trump's comb-around/over vs. Biden's hair plugs.

Kamala Harris' screw-the-accused record vs. Pence's "don't leave me in a room alone with a heathen harlot".

Pelosi's decades of enriching herself through Congressional insider information vs. Mitch McConnell's decades of enriching himself through Congressional insider information.

The choice is clear.

A little harsh on Pence, who's merely sensible enough to know that if he dines with a woman not his wife, he'll be accused of abject rape… These "choices" aren't clear, they're torpid.

" These "choices" aren't clear"

I beg to differ. I'm choosing the good side and no one can convince me otherwise.

Meanwhile in Buckingham Palace: gin.

You think you're kidding, but they say Liz can really hold her liquor… Her Mom drank like a fish and yet lived to be 104 or something.

As I mentioned two years ago, chances are that male politicians really do have it worse than other men. That is, it's not that any individual woman is going to start a false rumor (or false accusation) if the two of them meet alone, it's the enemies on the OUTSIDE who will look for any chance to start a false rumor.

But, I still think Pence should have tried harder to keep his rule secret, if he didn't try. There was no reason not to keep it secret - chances are, other male politicians do something like that too, but they don't get criticized or laughed at, since they don't advertise it. Besides, as columnist Gail Collins, I think, pointed out some time ago, it just wouldn't look right if Pence refused to have a private dinner with some REALLY famous politician. In other words, a female politician who is not his employee.

Crid, historian Richard Shenkman said Victoria liked drinking and partying too.

You live in a make believe world Lenona.

"Besides, as columnist Gail Collins, I think, pointed out some time ago, it just wouldn't look right if Pence refused to have a private dinner with some REALLY famous politician." ~Lenona

Why?

"That is, it's not that any individual woman is going to start a false rumor (or false accusation) if the two of them meet alone ..." ~Lenona

Provably false.

"chances are that male politicians really do have it worse than other men." ~Lenona

Also provably false.

"But, I still think Pence should have tried harder to keep his rule secret, if he didn't try. There was no reason not to keep it secret" ~Lenona

Why do you prefer lies and misinformation?

Let go of your lies and made up stories Lenona. Come join us in an honest world. It isn't as scary as you seem to think it is.

Ben, would you mind spelling out what you mean by "provably false"?

Everyone knows that the media behave like starving wolves when it comes to attaching politicians to scandals, real or not. So why would the average woman be more likely to be a cold-blooded malicious liar than the average tabloid? Are you seriously suggesting that they are and that THAT's why Pence has his rule?

Besides, if women, on average, WERE more malicious and/or dishonest than the mainstream media, Fox News, at least, would be harping on that idea incessantly. They don't.

And regarding what Collins alluded to...it would just plain look discriminatory, not to mention laughably paranoid, for Pence to refuse to meet alone with, say, some well-known female senator or Army general who's older than he, for a top security meeting. Even his enemies in the media would have a hard time starting any false rumors about such meetings. (But at this point, unless he becomes president in 2024, I'll concede it's a moot point. I haven't even heard much about what he's going to do between now and then.)

I should add that while Fox News got maybe a little hysterical a long time ago over the possibility of false accusations when MeToo went national, the sky still hasn't fallen in the workplace.

I haven't even heard many complaints lately, in the media, if any, from WOMEN about male co-workers refusing to work closely with them. Maybe things actually worked out - and the men most likely to insult and grope their co-workers are getting the message and learning to control themselves?

Lenona stop living in a made up fantasy world. People are terrible to each other. That is just human nature. Plenty of women lie about anything and everything, including sexual harassments and assault. This is nothing new. The Pence rule is a reasonable thing. It isn't even a big deal. Lots of men do that, not just politicians.

Learn how to read statistics instead of reading tabloids.

You're not exactly providing statistical evidence yourself.

And I don't read tabloids, and I don't have cable. I only become aware of what tabloids and other, similar media are saying when those stories get reported over and over by the BIG broadcasters or syndicated columnists, which means I don't get to hear most of those stories.

As I said, it's just as important to notice what the media AREN'T saying or reporting. (Amy agrees with this. The same goes for statistics, as others have said.) The fact that women don't seem to be complaining much about men refusing to work with them suggests, at least, that most men aren't really that afraid of false accusations or false rumors. Unless, of course, they're famous enough that they have to worry about the tabloids all the time. Such as politicians.

You said "plenty of women." What percentage are you talking about?

And, as I thought I made clear, it's one thing when a man who has a lot to lose refuses to be alone with his female employee or any woman he doesn't know well. But when that's not the case with that woman, his behavior could easily be called insulting or discriminatory, just as many a teen boy feels insulted when his girlfriend refuses to be alone with him, because she's been taught that teen boys are never to be trusted. (But, of course, MINORS seldom have a leg to stand on if they complain about discrimination, socially or otherwise.)

Not to mention that I don't get why Pence didn't just keep his rule to himself, in a Civilized Manner, when I don't recall any stories about his making exhaustive efforts to find chaperones for meetings or dinners. Apparently, he could easily have found chaperones without saying anything. Again, spelling it out looks insulting, in the eyes of the media.

Look Lenona getting accused of sexual harassments is more or less a normal thing these days. It isn't even worth mentioning on the news. It happens to everyone. That is why almost no one works one on one outside of the office irrespective of gender. (Same gender is no protection these days.) The Pence rule you ridicule is practiced by almost everyone. Male and female. It is just good policy.

"Not to mention that I don't get why Pence didn't just keep his rule to himself, in a Civilized Manner, when I don't recall any stories about his making exhaustive efforts to find chaperones for meetings or dinners." ~Lenona

Why do you think civilization is built on lies? Why does this offend you so? What do you think is protected by lying to people about such a simple and common thing?

"Again, spelling it out looks insulting, in the eyes of the media." ~Lenona

Who the fuck cares?!? He is a Republican. He can burp and it is an insult according to the media.

Pence's rule wasn't a secret ever. The only thing that changed was he got elected VP. Suddenly media partisans thought they had something to smear him with. That he had been doing this for decades didn't matter. That most people male and female do this also didn't matter.

So why the hell do I care? I only care about your view that lies are the best policy. That is my problem. Lies are not the answer to you being uncomfortable with how the world works. Quite frankly politicians lie often enough. We don't need people demanding they lie more often.

I don't get why you seem to be prone to hysteria. (This isn't the first time.)

For starters, discretion - as in, keeping one's mouth shut - isn't lying. (Only whiny, needy kids and teens seem to disagree with this, in my personal experience. The rude individuals who make the news are not necessarily a large percentage of adult society. The press simply gravitates toward rude people.)

But there's still the need for white lies, at certain times and places. As the wise man said: "The lie is the basic building block of good manners." (MM agrees.) For example, when your coworkers ask "how are you," the proper response is "fine, thank you." As in: "I'm feeling rotten in one way or another, but not enough that I won't be able to do my job properly."

People don't need to hear the details. Nor should they have to. Negativity like that pollutes the atmosphere.

You say Pence's rule was never a secret. Was this because HE revealed it decades ago, or did he go to lengths that the media couldn't ignore?

If gender is no longer a factor when it comes to private meetings, then why don't we HEAR more about men refusing to meet with men, unless there's a third male witness?

If most male Republicans tend to avoid women (but not men) the way Pence does, why can't most people recite at least half a dozen names? Likely because those Republicans managed to be discreet about it. Either that or they have more faith in those women they know well. Besides, even during the pandemic, one could still find semi-public places for private meetings.

Lenona, you embrace a culture of dishonesty.

What was your reaction to finding out that no a shadowy cabal of hidden people isn't suppressing male contraception but instead that policy you embrace had a consequence you didn't like?

You wanted people to lie about it to get your way.

What is your reaction to finding out a complete non-issue like Pence's meeting habits?

Lies once again.

"But there's still the need for white lies, at certain times and places." ~Lenona

You live in and embrace a culture of dishonesty. That culture gets people killed.

"You say Pence's rule was never a secret. Was this because HE revealed it decades ago, or did he go to lengths that the media couldn't ignore?" ~Lenona

Pence revealed it. It wasn't and still isn't a big deal. If you wanted a meeting with him it wasn't going to be one on one. Bring a spouse. Bring a friend. Pence didn't care. Just no one on one situations that could lead to a he said-she said issue. This only made the news after he became VP.

"If gender is no longer a factor when it comes to private meetings, then why don't we HEAR more about men refusing to meet with men, unless there's a third male witness?" ~Lenona

I guess you just don't keep informed. If you work for a large company it is standard practice to have no closed door two person meetings irrespective of gender. I guess firings are still two person. But in general such meetings are heavily discouraged. Same with off site meeting (dinner and such).

But since you want politicians named here is one article. Only took 5 min to find.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/14/believe-all-women-makes-the-pence-rule-just-common-sense/

My 'hysteria' is my being fed up with the dishonest culture you promote and the fantasy world you want to live in. Your 'good manners' is why conversations are yelling matches. Why thousands died unnecessarily in New York. Why a dementia patient is now president. You are hardly alone in wanting to lie to get out of every discomfort life offers. But it has lead you to being a very xenophobic and misinformed person.

If you wanted a meeting with him it wasn't going to be one on one. Bring a spouse. Bring a friend. Pence didn't care. Just no one on one situations that could lead to a he said-she said issue. ~ Ben at March 15, 2021 8:18 AM

Folks, Mike Pence does not dine alone with women who are not his wife. It's not that he won't meet with female staffers. It's that he avoids situations that could be deliberately misconstrued, and dinner between one man and one woman is such a situation.

And, as this woman who worked for him says, it didn't hurt her career, not being able to dine alone with Congressman Mike Pence. In fact, she said he rarely went to dinner with staffers, male or female, preferring to go home to spend time with his family after his workday.

Personally, I think Pence's rule is wise -- and beneficial for both parties. For female staffers, it reduces accusations of sleeping one's way to the top. Given that the current vice president is being made into the poster child for sleeping one's way at least partially to the top, isn't this an accusation most women would want to avoid?

==========

I guess firings are still two person. But in general such meetings are heavily discouraged. ~ Ben at March 15, 2021 8:18 AM

Firings usually involve the manager, the employee, and a representative from HR. It's been a while since I've had to fire someone, so it may have changed since then.

Ben, interesting that you still seem to prefer finding tabloid articles to finding statistics.

Also, interesting that you didn't comment on Russell Shorto's non-tabloid article, which I believe in. I take it you didn't think Shorto got many details wrong, if any.

http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2021/03/linkneigh.html#comments
(the link is near the bottom)

If people didn't fight back against those who disapprove of female contraception, how long would it be before the fierce 1960s opposition to voluntary sterilization for singles of EITHER sex returned? Professor/author Karen Lindsey (she's almost 80 by now) had plenty to say about how, back then, even radical lefties like Weathermen supporters were horrified and even hostile to single women like her who wanted to be sterilized. (It was one essay in the 1980 collection Why Children?, by multiple authors.) Naturally, doctors weren't much nicer. Nor were conservatives.

I certainly don't think that, when it comes to new MALE contraception, at least, there's any official liberal or conservative organization (yet) trying to stop it in the U.S. But, there's certainly cause for concern when someone like Rick Santorum makes it as far as he did in 2012, since he makes it pretty clear he doesn't really care about the people's right to family planning - and, presumably, his voters didn't care much either. (Until THEY suddenly need something, as many clinic workers will tell you.) Not to mention the not so gentle influence of conservatives' books like The Empty Cradle and What to Expect When No One's Expecting.

Leaving aside the real economic problems that come with a shrinking birthdate, all children deserve parents who truly want them and can support them. When people lose their jobs in a pandemic, access to contraceptives of all kinds becomes more important than ever.

Finally, there's nothing rude about journalists doing their job properly. So if they failed to do that with Andrew Cuomo early on, when more NY lives could have been saved, that was clearly inexcusable. (I never said anything about him, just so you know - I know better than to praise any politicians before they leave office.)

"Firings usually involve the manager, the employee, and a representative from HR." ~Conan

Often a person from security as well. Depends on the situation.

I will admit I was really grasping trying to find a situation at a medium or larger company where you would see a two person fully closed door meeting. They really aren't common.

Small companies they happen all the time. Heck if you've only got four people in the company they are more or less required. Just a function of numbers.

"Also, interesting that you didn't comment on Russell Shorto's non-tabloid article, which I believe in." ~Lenona

I didn't read it Lenona. The New York Times is a tabloid. Face reality. They have repeatedly reported on events that never happened. Hell, they got a Pulitzer for it once.

My whole point bringing that up was when you were confronted with an unintended consequence of policy you've personally supported your response was to lie. You are a dishonest person.

"And Ben, it seems to me that, regarding a man who was already planning to get a vasectomy, getting one clearly IS essential, during an economic crisis." ~Lenona

This is a transparent lie Lenona.

"The lie is the basic building block of good manners." ~Lenona

You have a culture of dishonesty. That is why you are so xenophobic. It is also why you go nutty when confronted with insignificant things you don't expect. Like the Pence Rule.

You want to have 1001 rules for everything. And then you want to break those rules the moment they become inconvenient.