I've turned around on this in recent decades. And maybe it's silly oldguy worry-warting… My only hesitation to going whole-hog for nuclear is a blossoming possibility of social collapse from an irrational fascination with 'diversity'… Specifically, runaway immigration and diminished reliability of accreditation in science & academe.

We really, really want the people who operate these things, no matter how sturdy the new designs, to be extremely bright and loyal to conventional American models of lawful authority and national security.

These are not the values of our present public servants, who harvest political support by inflaming division and by disparaging individual achievement, especially the intellectual kind.

Social turmoil at a dock or a freeway intersection is bad; social turmoil at a nuclear facility is likely to be consequential indeed.

France generates about 70% of its electricity via nuclear, and has done so safely for a long time.

Maybe PR programs for the US nuclear industry could draw on the belief of some many American liberals and progs that things European are better than things American...

The religion of *safetyism* may take the world into a new dark ages.

No risk too small to be unmitigated, no trade offs ever considered to be worth it unless the risky dirty tasks are being performed in some far away county using slave labor (like rare earth mining and the production of electric car batteries)

> France generates about 70% of its
> electricity via nuclear

How's the future of their industry looking? Last week someone said Germany(?)'s in full retreat from nuclear.

Via Ellis— Climate change has consumed journalistic standards.

Is nuclear a good idea in an area where earthquakes are frequent ?

Is nuclear a good idea in an area where earthquakes are frequent ?

Nick at August 10, 2021 8:19 AM

It took the largest earthquake in recorded history to take down the Fukushima plant. Even then, if the generators in the basement hadn’t been swamped by the Tsunami, there would have been no meltdown.
This was old technology.

Fukushima number 2 about eight miles south was successfully shut down.

I think it depends on the tech. IIRC, San Onofre, on the beach in Southern California, was not considered to be at risk from quakes despite sitting within sight of the Channel Islands, themselves in motion astride the San Andreas fault. (The plant was closed due to wear & maintenance considerations.) A lot of concerns about such things can be dealt with through design. Our understanding of physics & materials is much improved since San Onofre was drawn up.

My concern is civil comity… Our culture may not be moving toward the requisite sophistication for nuclear. Just for example— a substantial percentage of Americans are afraid of vaccines.

Perhaps it's not a population to be trusted with 'matches.'

I always got a kick from the protestors at the San Onofre nuke plant in southern California. It was just up the coast from San Diego, and most of the protestors were from there. Never mind the 15 to 20 reactors sitting in the middle of San Diego harbor, depending on how many subs were in port at any given time!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/oregon-students-would-no-longer-have-to-prove-they-can-do-basic-reading-writing-and-math-to-graduate-under-a-new-bill/ar-AAKufLx
Nuclear power plants particularly on the West Coast are not going to be an option given that the pool of future plant operators is going to be illiterate and innumerate.
Since the creeping Progressive mandate will make everyone be equals, and not everyone is equal enough to be a nuclear engineer, then everybody has to be equally credentialed at the lowest possible common denominator at which a person can function.
In the future, engineers, neurosurgeons, airplane pilots, statisticians, etc. be credentialed by lottery, since the old fashioned way of education and competitive sorting leads to inequalities, and technological and societal collapse is preferable to a working but unequal meritocracy. The US of the future will be an idiocracy.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/oregon-students-would-no-longer-have-to-prove-they-can-do-basic-reading-writing-and-math-to-graduate-under-a-new-bill/ar-AAKufLx
Nuclear power plants particularly on the West Coast are not going to be an option given that the pool of future plant operators is going to be illiterate and innumerate.
Since the creeping Progressive mandate will make everyone be equals, and not everyone is equal enough to be a nuclear engineer, then everybody has to be equally credentialed at the lowest possible common denominator at which a person can function.
In the future, engineers, neurosurgeons, airplane pilots, statisticians, etc. be credentialed by lottery, since the old fashioned way of education and competitive sorting leads to inequalities, and technological and societal collapse is preferable to a working but unequal meritocracy. The US of the future will be an idiocracy.

Odds that the two preceding comments came from the same keyboard in the same sitting approach metaphysical certitude.

…And maybe a threefer.

Isab Says:

"It took the largest earthquake in recorded history to take down the Fukushima plant."

It was not the largest earthquake in recorded history.

The earthquake involved in the Fukushima nuclear disaster was measured to be magnitude 8.9.

The largest recorded earthquake was the Valdivia Earthquake, which came in at magnitude 9.5.

Nick is correct that seismic activity is a cause of concern when selecting sites to construct nuclear power plants.

It is not a great idea to build nuclear facilities on the ring of fire... on stable ground such as the nuclear facilities in the Midwestern United States things are different.

Japan elected to go with nuclear because land is at a premium and their population density is quite high... still not a great choice given their location.

We can solve the energy and pollution problems and the unemployment problem by putting people to work running in giant hamster wheels attached to alternators.

Here, have a pellet. You've earned it!

Raddy's wrong (anticipatory).

"Just for example— a substantial percentage of Americans are afraid of vaccines."

Are we talking vaccines generally, or what is being touted as a vaccine, i.e., the experimental mRNA COVID injections? They really need to be differentiated.

And most other vaccines provide a real degree of protection against those who are unvaccinated. The concern there is generally that those who are unable to be vaccinated are not protected.

That ain't what's happening now with covid. The hysteria is coming from the vaccinated.

"The anger of the anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers is fully circuitous and autoerotic." ` crid

My observation is that you have that completely assbackward.

> They really need to be differentiated.

Learned sociologist, show us your wares. Or blow a giraffe.

ruralcounsel,

Most of what you are saying is not accurate or rational.

To start, the mRNA platform for vaccination is not "experimental"... it is new from the perspective of a widely distributed vaccine... but it is not "experimental".

This is a vaccination platform that has been in development for a couple of decades now and there were already applications in the pipeline when the pandemic hit. Given what was going on there was a shift in what the first application would be since there was a global need... but it wasn't something a scientist just cooked up in the lab a few weeks prior that they then wanted to distribute to the masses.

There is a reason we aren't using something like CRISPR to combat the viral pandemic... that would be experimental and hence in my view unethical.

Either way, if you or anyone else objects to or is nervous about the mRNA platform they always have access to the more traditional J&J vaccine.

There really aren't any credible excuses based on the argument you are trying to make.

Furthermore, the vaccines do provide protection against infected unvaccinated folks... but like all things that protection is not 100% and it also diminishes in relation to viral mutants.

This is very normal... it is the reason why we have yearly flu vaccinations. The strains change from year to year and hence the shot you received last year does not necessarily protect you against the variants that evolved since then.

One way or another this will work itself out... it just depends how much pain, suffering, and death people want to tolerate.

I wish things were different as this is the first time in human history we have the capability to mount a real defense against a plague... but millions of folks are instead choosing to run into battle naked because they've decided that bullet proof vests are "experimental".

. but millions of folks are instead choosing to run into battle naked because they've decided that bullet proof vests are "experimental".

Artemis at August 11, 2021 12:50 PM

You’ve never touched a gun have you? Or ever worn a Kevlar vest. Bullet proof vests don’t really exist except in the movies.

Perry Says:

"Bullet proof vests don’t really exist except in the movies."

Bullet proof vests are also known as ballistic vests or bullet resistant vests.

As a matter of fact, the term "kevlar vest" that you seem to prefer is just a subset of the class.

Many forms of ballistic vest aren't even based on fiber based technology... for example ceramic body armor which is based off of plates composed of extremely hard materials including oxides, carbides, or borides.

Let me guess... you bought a kevlar vest and now you think you are an "expert" in how this terminology is used.

Let's ask the following question... what exactly do you call the entire class of products that includes both fiber based and ceramic based armors intended to protect the wearer from bullets?

I can assure you that one of the accepted names for this class of products is in fact bullet proof vest.

The fact that no vest provides complete protection against all possible forms of ammunition isn't a credible objection here as it changes nothing about usage. The English language is chock full of imprecise terminology... especially as it pertains to marketed products.

I've got shocking new for you... red bull won't really give you wings and the alternative to so-called "organic produce" is also organic.

Perry,

You also might want to consider contacting the Florida state government to inform them that they have a law on the books that only applies to the movies:

www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2018/775.0846

"No person may possess a bulletproof vest while, acting alone or with one or more other persons, he or she commits or attempts to commit any murder, sexual battery, robbery, burglary, arson, aggravated assault, aggravated battery, kidnapping, escape, breaking and entering with intent to commit a felony, criminal gang-related offense under chapter 874, controlled substance offense under chapter 893, or aircraft piracy and such possession is in the course of and in furtherance of any such crime."

Needless to say, I assure you that it would be a pitiful legal defense to argue that it wasn't possible to violate this statute because you believe the term bullet proof vest refers only to something that is imaginary.

Artemis,
Virtually everything you wrote is either irrelevant to these mRNA vaccines, or deliberate misinformation. There is a reason these vaccines are only available under EUAs.

Worse Than the Disease? Reviewing Some Possible Unintended Consequences of the mRNA Vaccines Against COVID-19

https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/23/51

You're in denial because your fear of the virus has overwhelmed you.

People were talked into these vaccines under the impression that they would not have to keep getting them. That isn't turning out to be true. If they are going to be a annual or semi-annual event, it's a rational decision to wait until the real long-term consequences of these vaccines are known. Especially for a virus with such a low IFR.

https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/11/18/covid-infection-fatality-rates-sex-and-age-15163

P.S. Artemis,

For someone so willing to play semantics with what is and is not "experimental" you sure do accept the puffery and commercial language about "bulletproof vests" and Red Bull "wings."

Yes, mRNA technology has been in the works for years. Which is rather irrelevant to the issue about what is known about these specific vaccines.

You remind me of Fauci responding to questions about funding Gain of Function research in Wuhan with a denial that he funded anything about this particular virus. Ducking the real question.

Needless to say, I assure you that it would be a pitiful legal defense to argue that it wasn't possible to violate this statute because you believe the term bullet proof vest refers only to something that is imaginary.

Artemis at August 12, 2021 2:50 AM

Not my fault Florida code is as stupid as your analogy. The proper term is ballistic vest, which provides some protection against penetration from certain types of light handgun and rifle rounds but basically none at all against others. The bruising from the impact alone can be fatal.

Winding you up on semantics is entirely worth the effort.

Perry Says:

"Not my fault Florida code is as stupid as your analogy."

I suppose the dictionary is "stupid" as well then:

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bulletproof

"Examples of bulletproof in a Sentence:
The car has bulletproof windows.
The police officer was wearing a bulletproof vest."

Not my fault you are at war with the English language.

You prefer the term "ballistic vest"... more power to you... but bulletproof vest is a perfectly fine usage as well.

Take it up with the dictionary if it's gotten your panties in a wad.

ruralcounsel Says:

"There is a reason these vaccines are only available under EUAs."

It isn't because it is "experimental".

They are available under emergency authorization because we are presently dealing with an emergency.

That doesn't mean that this is some fly by night operation where scientific and medical professionals are treating the public like a bunch of lab rats.

"You're in denial because your fear of the virus has overwhelmed you."

Fuck off with this fear nonsense.

Those of us who recognize that there is a viral pandemic going on are acting rationally.

I don't wash my hands after I go to the bathroom out of fear either... it is just a rational understanding of hygiene.

What is it with folks like you and these playground rhetorical tactics?... "what are you scared..."

That is what you sound like to other adults.

I didn't vaccinate my kids with MMR because I'm afraid of measles, mumps, or rubella either... I vaccinate them because it is the rational thing to do for their health and wellbeing.

"People were talked into these vaccines under the impression that they would not have to keep getting them."

Nonsense.

From the get go folks were informed that the efficacy for the mRNA vaccines was on the order of 95%... only an idiot would think that yielded them complete protection.

Furthermore, since folks such as yourself have decided for the rest of us that you want COVID to become endemic we will likely have to vaccinate each year like we do with the flu.

Booster doses are the fault of the unvaccinated morons who insist they can do whatever they want because they have no responsibility to anyone else in society at all.

"If they are going to be a annual or semi-annual event, it's a rational decision to wait until the real long-term consequences of these vaccines are known."

Not really because "long-term" is a completely nebulous and arbitrary term.

You could very well decide that you want to wait decades to see what the "long-term" consequences are.

You would be more honest to simply say you have no intention of ever getting vaccinated and the rest of society will have to deal with your ignorance and irresponsibility.

We've had over 600,000 people die in this country and you apparently think this is all a game.

Do whatever you want, but don't whine and cry when it bites you in the ass.

Not from this culture. Not from this country. Knows nothing about guns, ballistic vests, epidemiology or vaccines.

Just an Internet blow hard trying to convince his betters that he has some sort of special expertise as he parrots VOX.

ruralcounsel Says:

"You remind me of Fauci responding to questions about funding Gain of Function research in Wuhan with a denial that he funded anything about this particular virus. Ducking the real question."

Maybe the way I talk reminds you of Fauci because I am also a scientist.

Maybe the reason you don't actually understand what is being communicated is because you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

No one is ducking questions... your inability to understand the answers is due to your own ignorance.

If a toddler were to ask me why the sun shines and I were to explain the ins and outs of nuclear fusion and how it relies upon quantum tunneling and the interaction of long range electrostatic repulsion and the short range strong nuclear force they won't understand what I am talking about... if instead I make an attempt to describe in an age appropriate manner one could accuse me of glossing over details and "dodging" the question.

You don't have the foggiest clue what Gain of Function research entails... why would you presume that Fauci is in denial as opposed to you simply not understanding the subject material?

How arrogant do you have to be to think that you know better what constitutes Gain of Function research than an expert?

Get over yourself.

I hope you don't get sick, but if you do I expect you to stick to your guns and avoid using any hospital resources since apparently no one in the medical profession understands infectious disease as well as you do... just stay home and take care of yourself with your vast medical expertise.

Didums Says,

"Just an Internet blow hard trying to convince his betters..."

For goodness sakes... we are taking about anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists... these aren't exactly Nobel laureates.

An inability to convince anti-vaxxers that vaccines are in fact useful as a health measure isn't evidence of how intelligent they are... it is evidence of how monumentally ignorant they are.

This blog used to have reasonably intelligent and rational people here. It has since devolved into an echo chamber of drooling morons.