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Now, my only revenge is to never patronize female-owned businesses.

Pathetic and unimaginative. Why not try cross-dressing and teaching women how to behave by example?

For example:

http://www.chicladies.org/

The ladies of CHIC always present themselves in a lady like manner and project a positive image of crossdressing to the general public.

Oh my god! "Unbridled hostility" is being kind. As a teacher, I meet about 180 new people every term. I read their papers, conversate with them regularly, and often they share their personal lives. It is amazing how many people live on auto-pilot mode. People like this guy do not know they are the pathetic, arrogant fucks that they are. People like this feastering wound scoff at advice like Amy's, quick to find oversights in her evaluation. He is probably some average looking, slightly overweight dude who refuses to recognize that his extra-regular conversation and worn out views are, at best, boring, but mostly just annoying. House and no bills...decent job....big fucking deal. I have the same thing, except I love my job and giggle at the fact I get paid (pretty well) to be there. Actually, I have two jobs I love. Tell the little douche bag to hang out at the local health department. There he will find a slew of people, both male and female, interested in what he has. Then, if he still can't find a willing woman, maybe he should try-on the other gender.

"Tell the little douche bag to hang out at the local health department. There he will find a slew of people, both male and female, interested in what he has."

You are hilarious. I should deputize you for when I have a hard day in the humor mines.

And congrats on loving your jobs...me, too. Couldn't imagine it any other way.

"Women have never asked me out, offered to buy me a drink, or even opened a door for me."

Cripes...doesn't that overblown sense of entitlement get heavy after a while? Seriously, if you want to attract women, your financial portfolio doesn't really help much if you're presenting yourself as an angry, bitter, vagina hater.

1) I'm pretty sure this guy has written in this same letter to you before, Amy. Including the "she won't hold doors" or "she won't pay for dinner" thing.

I don't know where you're looking, Mr. LW, but I hold the door for my man and I also buy him dinner. He has significantly more money than I do so he'll treat me most of the time b/c he can afford it and enjoys "spoiling" me. Not because I inherently deserve it because I'm a woman.

2) For every man who has experienced a miserable bitch with some sense of entitlement and a warped sense of what true equality is ("I want my dinner paid for AND xyz") there is a woman who has met a guy who won't call back; refuses to establish monogamy after 3 months (uh, ok, fuck buddy); won't introduce her to his friends; is unwilling to self-analyze enough to realize that a little communication won't cause his balls to be absorbed into his body, never to be seen again and rendering him infertile.

We've ALL dealt with the horrors of dating. We've all been on horrible dates with people who suck. The difference is that most people realize "maybe I'm doing something wrong." The common link is YOU, pal. Not all women suck, and not all men suck.

Look harder, look somewhere else and for fuckssake do a little inward searching... maybe you look at women's breasts instead of her face? Maybe, for the sake of conversation you talk too much about yourself and, accidentally, come off as conceited. Who knows... but don't group us all into one category b/c you know perfectly well that that is messed up.

doesn't that overblown sense of entitlement get heavy after a while? Seriously, if you want to attract women, your financial portfolio doesn't really help much if you're presenting yourself as an angry, bitter, vagina hater

People who suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder rarely recognize it for what it is. He just might need some therapy/counseling to get over his bitterness.

Actually -- and unfortunately -- I'm pretty sure this guy is a lost cause.

Those of us who are in our thirties, single, and a little disappointed about it will agree: if we wanted to, we could ALL opt to be bitter and angry about it. But, as Amy already said, that's unattractive.

...and besides that, it's hard f-ing work to keep that much vitriol at a rolling boil! Most people who get mad at the whole wide world can't keep it up forever, because it's exhausting and it cuts into the rest of their lives.

But that's just most people. Other people, like this guy, get so good at maintaining their rage and do it for so long that it's probably just part of who they are now. He's a GRINCH. An envious, bilious, covetous, selfish little man who expects everybody to respect, appreciate and even fear him exactly the way he is, even though the way he is happens to be just plain disgusting. Then, of course, when the world reacts with predictable disgust, it's the world's loss and the world's problem and the world who needs to be taught a lesson.

Sad...very sad...

When I was single (and looking), a lot of friends and coworkers would tell me, "you need to stop looking, you'll only find someone when you're not looking for someone." Kinda a dating version of "a watched pot never boils," I guess. It's trite, but kinda has a point. Not that someone should stop looking, but stop acting like you're looking. Nothing drives people away more than desperately acting like you need a relationship, or angrily expect one.

Until you go out, have some fun, meet some people, and stop putting expectations on everything, will you actually meet someone compatible. Keep carrying that chip on the shoulder, and the only dates you'll get are the ones you are the ones you rent with your (currently) debt-free credit cards.

Flynne's right...therapy isn't a bad idea, either.

Is this the guy who wrote on Teddy Bear paper, that you posted on your blog a month or so ago?

That would explain a lot, I think.

ARGH! Amy, this is your fault! You got me started on grammar and spelling errors.

Can you imagine my thoughts as I read this passage you quoted, "The ladies of CHIC always present themselves in a lady..."?

What??? Crossdressers presenting themselves in ladies? Well, why not? Since the "H" stands for "heterosexual," I guess they would.

Then as I followed the sentence, I realized perhaps he meant that "The ladies of CHIC always present themselves in a lady-like manner," or "ladylike manner."

Amy, you know I find you ravishing and delightful but wouldn’t this letter have served better as an A**hole of the day post? He doesn’t really even ask for advice; his only question is more of a sarcastic sneer. He might do well to sit down and do some introspection (the list of 10 questions from your book “Free Advice” for example.) But your analogy of a fisherman angrily waving a frying pan is apt. A fisherman wants to catch fish and KILL them. Why is someone who hates women complaining about not having more social interactions with them? If the advice goddess ER has a triage system, this guy maybe goes in the “too far gone” category.

My "bargain-at-twice-the-price" advice to this guy is to forget about dating, take some time off and go try to repair that gaping wound in your soul (or whatever you like to call it.) Maybe it will be building houses for poor people or teaching kids jai alai or pestering grizzly bears. Do something interesting and come back with the t-shirt and you can stop resenting the fact that your best feature is your credit report. You have to like yourself before anyone else can.

"Not that someone should stop looking, but stop acting like you're looking."

Excellent point, Jamie. You shouldn't actually stop looking, or you're not going to get out and go places where you will meet new people. Your radar should always be on. But desperation and bitterness must be the two biggest turn-offs in existence. People respond positively to you when you act like a person who has a life going on.

The LW should start looking at women as buddies or just friends and get to know them as people. View each woman he meets as a potential sister. Hang out with groups of people, do fun things, and just concentrate on building a network of friends.

Something about this letter smells like a joke to me :P

It's no joke. Average people are self-absorbed morons. Just had a student wonder (aloud!) about what she's gonna do about her damned boyfriend who won't quit running to his children every time they call needing something because she wants to have a kid with him asap and he better not think this shit's gonna keep up!!!!

This letter surprised me too and I thought "asshole of the day". But re-reading it, I did find the question in there...."What could possibly be the problem?" I think Advice Goddess Amy (Is that an appropriate address?) was overly generous to put so many words together. The short answer is "You are, dumbass!" But I guess that's why she's the writer and I'm the reader.

"Something about this letter smells like a joke to me :P"

Joke letters are never this unintentionally funny.

Here's a copy of the original...and something I didn't mention in the column. It came in on TEDDY BEAR STATIONERY...from a grown man:

http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2007/07/sometimes_you_d_1.html

And FYI, I answered this because of the issue, which interests me -- which is men saying "it's not fair!" that they have to do the asking. Of course, part of the problem is many women don't do their part, which is flirting to let a guy know they'd be interested if he asked. Well, life's rough, and either you ask women out and realize rejection is just a sign to go on to the next, or stay home wanking off and quit whining.

"it’s us men who have to figure out whether a woman’s married, seeing someone, or is a lesbian."

You mean like, getting to KNOW them first... riiiight... such a hassle....

You can't make this shit up.

"Women have never asked me out, offered to buy me a drink, or even opened a door for me."

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! OMG!!! Dude sounds like a Lady... he needs the gay bar down the street.

I hope I'm able to drill enough of a sense of personal accountability so that you don't get letters like that from my kids when they're older. :p

My step-daughter wouldn't have HIS issue though, since she's presently a very attractive young woman. She's also stupid-flirty. She's much more likely to write in about how all guys that she dates are jerks. She flirts rather indiscriminately, like a gatling-gun of flirty. Working on a song about it (parody of Copacabana in fact), I'll send you a link when it's done.

A book for her -- The Art Of Living Consciously, by Nathaniel Branden:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684838494?ie=UTF8&tag=advicegoddess-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0684838494

Heh...when I wrote you about her boy-crazy ways a while back, you recommended "The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem" instead. Trouble is, she doesn't believe that anything is worth reading unless it's Harry Potter related.

I might even have a hard time getting her to read Harry Potter and Philosophy: If Aristotle Ran Hogwarts which happens to have a good chapter on the dangers of self-delusion and the pros of personal responsibility.

By the same author. I didn't realize you meant she was young. Have to check out that Harry Potter philosophy book!

It's not bad so far. It's no "Nicomachean Ethics," (just like "The Tao of Pooh" is no "Tao Te Ching") but provides a good reference point using the characters of HP to introduce them to western philosophy.

Yeah, she's 13. I can see how my earlier use of "attractive young woman" might have been misleading, my apologies. I'll henceforth use "attractive young bratty jail-bait" to prevent further misunderstandings. :)

"You mean like, getting to KNOW them first... riiiight... such a hassle....

You can't make this shit up."

AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAH....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA.

"Here's a copy of the original...and something I didn't mention in the column. It came in on TEDDY BEAR STATIONERY...from a grown man"

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAH...CHOKECHOKECHOKE....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA...GASPCHOKEGASPCOUGHCOUGHCOUGHBREATHEBREATHEBREATHE......

"You mean like, getting to KNOW them first... riiiight... such a hassle....

You can't make this shit up."

AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAH....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA.

"Here's a copy of the original...and something I didn't mention in the column. It came in on TEDDY BEAR STATIONERY...from a grown man"

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAH...CHOKECHOKECHOKE....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA...GASPCHOKEGASPCOUGHCOUGHCOUGHBREATHEBREATHEBREATHE......

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAH...CHOKECHOKECHOKE....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA...GASPCHOKEGASPCOUGHCOUGHCOUGHBREATHEBREATHEBREATHE......

"Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid." - attributed to John Wayne.

I'd tell this nitwit, "Kill two boids wit one stone: go back to school. You might learn something interesting, and - surprise! - there will be people there with your same interests." Well, more than that, I hope, but you get the idea...

An angry guy with a victim complex. Can't imagine why someone hasn't snapped this prize right up!

I do, however, continue to be amazed at certain people's complete and total resistance to anything approaching self-awareness or insight. I mean, the one unvarying common denominator in all of this guy's interaction with women is, well, this guy. But he doesn't even appear to be considering that his lack of success could be related to his approach, his jokes, his behavior in random encounters, his methods of flirting, his hairstyle, whatever. No, it's all the fault of the bitches unable to appreciate a man who hasn't declared bankruptcy.

And all I have to say to him is that men have never worn makeup for me, turned away dessert to keep fitting into the perfect item of clothing for me, or donned stiletto heels in order to appeal to me. Etc. And yet, I manage to remain non-bitter about the shocking gender disparity even as attending to my toiletries cuts into my sleep time. And I LOVE sleep. (Note: I do hold doors for men, I have bought men drinks, I have sent men flowers and I have asked men out. But none of them were angry guys with a victim complex who were waving their debt-free status as though it were a banner of irresistability.)

I dated a charmer like this once. Problem is that the bitter doesn't turn off, even when he had a girl willing to buy dinners and flowers and treat him like he was special. Mentality seems to be "if she asked, then either she's flawed or else I deserve this from even more people".

Steph said it perfectly. Usually these losers are picky about looks too.

Hilarious parallel, Marion.

"Here's a copy of the original...and something I didn't mention in the column. It came in on TEDDY BEAR STATIONERY...from a grown man:"

Oh man! Even his handwriting looks like a 12-year old's.

Oh well...joke or not, it's a hilarious letter.

Heh. Glad you like...TEDDY BEAR STATIONERY? Oh lord. I'm not sure I'd even know where to buy teddy bear stationery, and I'm a chick who has several beloved small children (who all belong to other people, woo hoo) in my life who would probably love teddy bear stationery. Yoohoo, Angry Debt-Free Dude, where did you pick up that teddy bear stationery? I have a couple of little kids' birthdays coming up for which I need presents...

After reading stuff here I think the letter is a joke. When I read this in my local weekly I thought it was s rant and probably the lead-in was missing. Probably because I have heard similar rants without the nutty parts and a fair bit of lead in material. I probably could have done it at one point. And I think Amy did cover more of what I was thinking in her later comments.



The part I figured was missing was a recount of some nastry rejections (hand in the face, etc.), leading into why are women so nasty and rude about it and make it so difficult. Then a rant like written here less the threatening of women's businesses.



As for myself, I have tried help from a couple of different dating coaches and even a therapist. Each one had little suggestions (some opposite of what others suggested) though all seemed stumped. The big bit was one suggested I move to another part of the country. Recently, I have been travelling for work and see that women in other places give you much more clues that they are interested in you apporaching. Unfortunately it is not pratical for me to move at this point. I have had a few friends that have moved out of the area and all of been married within two years of leaving. When I look around I do not see hardly any people getting together in the over 25 crowd.



I am assuming some of the women are interested in meeting men and I figure none of the fish are interested in getting caught so that is probably a poor comparison.



As to Marion's thoughts. I know lots of guys who pass on desert and want to keep fit for the ladies so that is about equal. Uncomfortable shoes? Yep, guys wear them all the time for women. You win on the makeup though. Of course, you probably don't have to shave daily either.



I like the night club part. I worked as bouncer in college so I know that is tough. Unfortunately the system selects for players rather then for good men.



Sorry, the anger started rile up there.

The letter isn't fake - it's from Ventura County and it came on teddy bear stationery. Nobody could create a letter like this from the imagination. Here's a copy from my blog:

http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2007/07/sometimes_you_d_1.html

No woman wants a man who's angry, acts entitled, and isn't man enough to walk over and ask them out. If you're angry and hiding it, it'll show.

As for...dating coaches...ugh. A lot of guys who don't get girls have something wrong with them. Do the dating coaches tell them that or do they just tell them to move?

I certainly agree that few women want a man who is angry, acts entitled, and isn't man enough to wolk over and ask them out. Those that do are called lesbians anyway.

As far as dating coaches go. I certainly saw two of the ones I worked with let me people know what they thought was wrong with the client. And one was also trained in psychology (or something like that). The one who ended up telling me to move worked with me for a long time before coming to that conclusion.

Another point, is it not a few guys ... it seems like everyone in the over 25 category. I think it is to your point earlier that so many women give no clue - no flirting - no nothing. Hence the guys have to advance blind so get rejected about 100% of the time. The women get more annoyed by the undesired guys approaching and become more closed off and things spiral down hill.

For me personally, I also saw a therapist just in general and she said found nothing particularly wrong with me. The only things she came up with was that I was overly in touch with reality and generally lacking in self delusions. (If you can translate that for me, please do so.)

OK. If the dating coaches are not a good option. What would you recommend a chap do?

I really don't know anything about you, so maybe you want to write me an e-mail and give me details -- about you, your M.O., where you live, what the problem is. Paste a picture of yourself into the e-mail. (I don't download from strangers.)

'I certainly agree that few women want a man who is angry, acts entitled, and isn't man enough to wolk over and ask them out. Those that do are called lesbians anyway.'

So lesbians WANT a man who is angry, acts entitled, etc. etc.??

No, lesbians are women that are not sexually interested in men. Just thought I would clear that up.

And it sounds like you are a bit angry, so I'm glad that you are seeing a therapist.

Just Ranting: Clearly the "Expert" who suggested you move was just giving up.

"The only things she came up with was that I was overly in touch with reality and generally lacking in self delusions. (If you can translate that for me, please do so."

Translation: You see yourself the same way the therapist does? "Lacking in self-delusions" could also be translated as a lack of ambition, or lacking aspirations for greatness. I've noted many people who think of themselves as "realistic" who are actually pessimists, or down-right defeatists.

Where do you try to find dates anyway? Clubs and bars are MADE for players; people who can present themselves with dazzle and charm, masters of the 30 second pick-up. If you are a reg. guy, and present yourself as a regular guy, why would a woman notice you amid a bunch of players exuding charm & glitz? Another thought: Perhaps you set your sightes too high. I'm not saying to go for unnattractive, but if you are approaching the "drop-dead gorgeous" females, and you are neither rich, charismatic nor particularly good-looking or yourself, of course you won't succeed.

Everybody is "cool" amid the right crowd, everyone is "hot" to somebody, as long as you are interested in the females that are interested in you. If you aren't interested in chicks more your league, then you're delusional to think yourself realistic.

I got myself rather wound up, sorry about that. I may at some time write in a question. I was more wondering what you thought a person should do to get help - I am saying at a general level and not particular to me - I am thinking an answer like hire a dating coaching though it appears like you do not think much of them.



Morbideus:

The lacking self-delusion is hard to guess at as there was little context to it. You could be right. At the time I took it to mean that I did not think I was better then I was and was thus unlikely to take chances that some others would.



I believe the overly in touch was a bit more then you suggest. She also noted that her attempts to alter my perceptions where greeted with me noting that what she said did not match with experiance.



I try to meet people where ever. I have been taking a class for example. No single women there. I have gone to a number of festivals, etc.



I certainly am not targetting the perfect 10s. I suspect you are still unfortunately correct in saying I am going out of my league. It seems that there is such a dearth of single women that any single women has a high value here.



Oh...yeah, I live a bit out side of Seattle.

"No, lesbians are women that are not sexually interested in men. Just thought I would clear that up."

Thanks. It's too often the answer for people who aren't witty but wish to seem they are.

I met my boyfriend at the Apple computer store. I meet people -- men and women -- everywhere, because I'm social and I talk to people. You can meet dates at a bar. The best time to do it is right after work, not pickup time.

"The lacking self-delusion is hard to guess at as there was little context to it. You could be right. At the time I took it to mean that I did not think I was better then I was and was thus unlikely to take chances that some others would."

O.K., so you do not think you are better than you are. Do you give yourself due credit? "Hi, I'm an average guy," isn't likely to impress anyone. Take some chances, what do you have to lose?

"I believe the overly in touch was a bit more then you suggest. She also noted that her attempts to alter my perceptions where greeted with me noting that what she said did not match with experiance."

There is certain amount of interpretation that goes with each experience, I'm guessing it's attitude towards those exeriences she was attempting to address. FUN, excitement, and a sense of adventure are chick magnets.

Granted, I don't know you, perhaps in person you are more upbeat than what I am reading here.

Hah!! It was amazing how many more women (people?) where willing to talk to me once I learned to be less bitter. Funny how that works!!!

How did you do it, Amax?

Bizzarre thing that. ;)

Sorry, Just Ranting got me confused, so I had to say something to clear it up...

I agree with the "meet men anywhere" thing. You just have to be friendly, open, and open to possibilities. I met the guy I'm currently dating at a swing dance class. He was the best dancer--I was a terrible dancer, but he was kind and patient. And adorable. The flirting came naturally, and we knew we'd see each other once a week, so there was some exciting tension.

My prior relationship started at Burning Man, with a fellow volunteer. We were working graveyard shifts in a two-person office, monitoring an emergency radio that almost never went off. Just the two of us, alone and bored for 8 hours at a stretch. I had brought a book, snacks, and some sewing because I thought it would be incredibly tedious. And there was this adorable man . . . I shared my snacks with him. Never got to the book or the sewing . . .

Since you asked; most of my friends are women and they just simply told me; you want to date another one of our kind before you die, right? Yeah, bitterness is a real turn off!! (just paraphrasing of course) That of course, got me thinking so I simply had to deal. Everyone goes through heartbreak, I'm not the only one who ever has or ever will. You live, you learn, period!!

One more thing; I sounded EXACTLY like the LW before my revelation. Guess how many women I dated during those years. Here's a hint, it's less than the number 1!!

That LW sounds like a real prince. How much do you want to bet that he 1) isn't exactly Brad Pitt in the looks department, most probably balding with a spare tire; and 2) thinks he deserves a Heidi Klum lookalike?

Typical of these charmers is if you suggest that he be realistic and date a woman on his general level, he'll respond with shock, horror and outrage, complete with a rant on how women today are selfish, shallow and way too picky.

Another related topic: Why do so many self proclaimed 'nice guys' present themselves as a platonic friend to a woman instead of growing a pair and asking her out, then get mad when the woman treats him like a platonic friends?

Um, I could be wrong, because this doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone else yet, but I think this letter was supposed to be a satire.

Specifically, a satire of the type of woman who complains, "I'm a successful career woman, competent, stable, financially secure and attractive, but still alone later in life than I'd like to be, and I can't seem to find a decent man out there. They're all married, taken, gay or schmucks. Because of this, I have come to the conclusion that men in general are deficient. Jerks." (Think Maureen Dowd.) He has just switched around the genders.

What was the writer's point? Because he asks, "What could possibly be the problem?" and then describes a pattern of behavior that combines passiveness with a sense of entitlement, I'm guessing it was this: Ladies, don't sit there being bitter; if the type of guys you want aren't coming after you, then go after them. Do the work of the hunt yourself.

A secondary point might be an anti-feminist one: Being a woman who is "successful" in 1980s feminist terms (successful career woman) but nevertheless bitter and angry at men might not be the kinds of qualities that attract guys.

A third point might be that many unattached women have unrealistic expectations. (Although I'm not a big fan of "settling," myself; better to be alone than with someone you're not happy with.)

Like most battle-of-the-sexes turnaround "what if men were women and women were men?" satires, though, this piece stumbles over the fact that men and women are in fact different, and not interchangeable. If men were just like women they would no longer be men, and vice versa. As Amy pointed out, humans (like most mammals) have evolved so that males are generally the sexual pursuers and females are generally the pursuees. While it's true we're not mere prisoners of our evolutionary past, if people try to buck this pattern, they often run into a lot of cultural and instinctual resistance. It's not easy.

Still, I'm kinda surprised no one else thought this was an attempt at satire. Ironically, those of you who spoke of cross-dressing and role-reversal almost tumbled to it, but not quite. It seemed obvious to me. (But then again, I used to lurk at FreeRepublic years ago *blushes in shame* and this reads a lot like a Freeper's parody of a bitter feminist.)

Presented only FYI with the intent of illuminating a previously overlooked angle. Y'all did make some good points anway.

Morbideus is probably somewhat correct. I do often come across as -um- unfun when it is not something I am not particular interested. And also in typed and especially over the phone...the curse of the males in my family.


My mentor (in business) was giving me grief and his friend the waitress had some interesting points. To go back to the fishing, I am catching a few rainbow trout and when I need a halibut and failing to notice I am fishing in mountain lake and not the ocean. I have met a number of women recently who I have been interested in years ago and now they have a few kids and are looking at settle in and play house. A couple even asked me out. As the waitress pointed out, the single career women move the heck out of here.