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Stopwatch In The Name Of Love

I met a guy a little over seven weeks ago. Days later, we were hanging out constantly, sharing life stories, and sleeping together. I began to “fall” but didn’t say anything about love because he didn't. Finally, on a trip, we had a talk about how we felt. I explained that I wouldn’t have slept with him more than once if I didn’t see a future for us. He said he couldn’t BEGIN to think of “love” for many months and isn’t very verbally demonstrative anyway. He basically wants to see where this goes, and thinks I'm kinda nuts for “moving so fast.” Yet, every boyfriend I’ve had said he loved me within a couple weeks of sleeping together. I feel sleazy for sleeping with a man five days a week and never saying more than “Have a nice day” afterward. Am I headed for disaster?

--Put Off

There’s falling in love and there’s trying to have yourself shot out of a cannon into it.

Too bad human emotion doesn’t run on a bus schedule: “Let’s see…two weeks, you love me, seven weeks, you let me measure you for your cage.” Out here in the confines of the real world, loving somebody takes actually knowing them, otherwise, what are you actually loving? Hmmm…perhaps how well they fit into your plan to retire from dating and settle down with that special anybody?

The way you put it -- “I wouldn’t have slept with him more than once if I didn’t see a future for us” -- that thing down there must only look like a vagina; it’s really a crystal ball. Seven weeks in, you know him, really, really well -- just not well enough to have even an inkling of his approach to relationships: waiting until he develops some depth of feeling for a woman before committing to more than dinner plans for week eight. In other words, the guy seems to be looking for something real, as opposed to something real fast. Jeez, what a jerk!

Midway through a seven-week sex marathon, it’s a little late to inform a guy of the house rule: Only the first bagging is free. If sex that may turn out to be, well, casual, rather than formal, leaves you feeling gypped, you should end dates with a long, steamy handshake. Since you’re a bit beyond that now, the thing that should be giving you pause is not what’s probably a sincere “Have a nice day,” but how you bought into all those week two “I love you’s” from boyfriends past. After all, if saying “I love you” means two people have a future together, how come you and all those other guys seem to be having a future apart?

This guy doesn’t sound like he’s cold, withholding, or scampering off to the bar to “Have a nice day” with your replacement. Why push him in that direction? It’s understandable that you feel a need for “security,” but you can’t contract out for it; it has to come from within. Also, lobbying to hear those “three little words” may cause you to miss those other three little words, “Are you cold?” Or, those fourteen little words, “How about I come over this weekend and sand and refinish your hardwood floors?” (You say tomato, he shows you a tomahto…and who’s to say the talkier way is right?) It’s okay to be looking for love, but for best results, remember to actually look, and not like you would for a suitcase nuke that’s about to take out Cleveland.

Posted by aalkon at November 14, 2007 12:36 AM

Comments

I was hoping there would be a new letter tonight. Nice work once again, Amy. I also take exception to the LW's assertion that she's got the place all men find love between her legs. Sounds to me like there is a memo out in her community about what it takes to get her to pull out her freakier bag of tricks. She should investigate.

Posted by: Deion at November 13, 2007 10:01 PM

Man every time I get a little down on my life and my problem I come here and read the letters. As it turns out I am leading a reasonably well adjusted life. Thank you for all the help Amy!

Posted by: GregA at November 14, 2007 6:24 AM

When will people learn? It's actions not words that matter. Does he treat you with kindness and tenderness? Is he there for you when you need him to be?

Great advice Amy. All in all I completely agree with the man she's dating. It takes me a very long time to get around to saying "those little words" because, shockingly, I actually want to mean it when I say it.

Posted by: flighty at November 14, 2007 7:12 AM

Heh heh...you're welcome.

Posted by: Amy Alkon [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 14, 2007 7:33 AM

Another great response! I don't understand why the word future has to be spelled with a capital "F" to make some people feel complete. The fact is, from the time she first slept with him, they have had a future. From then to now. Sounds like he is seeing some additional future for them in that he wants to see where things go. From now to some undetermined time in the future. And if she's sleeping with him 5 nights a week, I don't imagine he's off prospecting the other two. Unless maybe he's 19....

The definition of "sleazy" must have changed while I wasn't looking. I thought it was something akin to multiple one-night stands in an effort to make oneself popular or fulfill some other emotional need. Apparently, monogamous, hot, frequent sex is sleazy. Woohoo, I'm an honest to goodness slut! It's not just talking dirty anymore.

Posted by: moreta [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 14, 2007 7:45 AM

Thanks, and now a commercial: Please feel free to request my column in a paper near you...if you're so inclined. Write to the features editor at a daily and the editor and/or publisher or an alt. weekly. Thank you. --The Advice Goddess

Posted by: Amy Alkon [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 14, 2007 7:47 AM

The way I see my own relationship -- it was great yesterday and last week, so we keep seeing each other today, and this week, and one would assume it'll probably continue next week. No promises to be together forever. But, we're having a hell of a lot of fun, and seem to mean a lot to each other...so why would we want to break up?

Also, the words "I love you" are too often used as a form of extortion. If somebody loves you they act like it. Look for that. As I noted above.

Posted by: Amy Alkon [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 14, 2007 7:50 AM

Amy
Right On! The more I read ya, the more I love ya!

Posted by: Clem [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 14, 2007 10:29 AM

Amy, you are putting all these little "love advice nuggets" together for your next book, right? Because I will want to give it to both of my daughters, and all of their friends (and I'm thinking of one of #1's friends who desperately needs your wise words right about now!) when they turn 18 (or sooner) and scorn advice about "love" from their mom! o_O

Posted by: Flynne [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 14, 2007 1:25 PM

Thanks so much, Flynne...collecting all of it!

Posted by: Amy Alkon at November 14, 2007 2:22 PM

“Finally, on a trip, we had a talk about how we felt.”
Am I the only guy who felt a shiver at reading that part? I'm guessing it was more of a lecture about how he should be feeling at this point in the relationship(shudder.) I wonder if the "talk" took place with him wearing only a hotel towel and pleading that she not hurl the keys to the rental car off a romantic pier somewhere thousands of frequent flier points from home.

She fully expects to be in and out of relationships for the foreseeable future and expects that those relationships will be on her terms. They guy will always spout those 3 little words on queue. Only this guy had the audacity to shoot straight with her. Bet he won't make that mistake again.

Posted by: martin at November 14, 2007 6:44 PM

"'Finally, on a trip, we had a talk about how we felt.' Am I the only guy who felt a shiver at reading that part?"

Bad memories of a good camping trip spoiled.

Posted by: snakeman99 at November 14, 2007 8:58 PM

I'm very careful to avoid all discussions about 'emotions' with my guy, mostly out of empathy for what he has probably already been subjected to by previous women. I watch for how he shows love, which he does by doing things which he knows makes me happy. I do the same for him.

Women have to get some control over their emotions, or risk destroying every relationship they have with these little 'talks'.

Posted by: Chrissy [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 15, 2007 7:14 AM

This is just anecdotal "evidence," but, with my friends, the length of time that passes before a couple starts using those "three little words" is proportional to the length of the relationship overall. Maybe it's just that a willingness to wait to say those words that have come to hold such a magical significance in our culture reflects a maturity that would have a positive effect on other aspects of the relationship.

Chrissy wrote "Women have to get some control over their emotions, or risk destroying every relationship they have with these little 'talks'."

That's true. Sometimes, when I walk into a room and say my boyfriend's name with an upward, inquisitive inflection (indicating that a question is forthcoming), he freezes up in absolute panic. And then the relief is comically visible on his face, when it turns out my question is, "I'm going to McDonald's. Want anything?"


Posted by: sofar [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 15, 2007 8:45 AM

Sometimes, when I walk into a room and say my boyfriend's name with an upward, inquisitive inflection (indicating that a question is forthcoming), he freezes up in absolute panic.

Yeah, funny how they cringe like that, isn't it? I've seen some women do it, too, though, so it isn't just the guys. Although with some women, I think they do that because husband or boyfriend found a bill they weren't supposed to! o_O

Posted by: Flynne [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 15, 2007 11:18 AM

It *is* heart-wrenching to see a fellow cringe at a simple statement or neutral query. Makes me want to comfort them. I spent my own years cringing at simple questions or hearing my name spoken with a threatening interrogative...Renee?...it takes time to heal from controlling relationnships.

Posted by: Renee at November 15, 2007 9:11 PM

Granted, not all my questions are that mundane. Like the other day, Amy posted a blog item about whether or not men should, like women, have choices about raising/paying for a child that resulted from an unplanned pregnancy.

I read it and wanted to get an educated male's opinion. So I walked into the living room, where my BF was watching tv and asked point-blank with no lead-in, "Hey, uh, so if a woman has an unplanned pregancy, should the guy who got her pregnant automatically be on the hook if she decides to keep it? Or should he have a choice?... OMIGOD, BREATHE!!!!"

Poor guy. Looking back, I maybe should have prefaced that question with, "So, I was reading this blog, and there's an interesting discussion going on..."

After convincing him I was NOT pregnant and was not playing the "So let's say, hypothetically..." game with him, we had a good discussion.

The wide-eyed look of sheer terror on his face still makes me laugh.

Posted by: sofar [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 16, 2007 8:51 AM

You ladies need to take it easier with the guys in your lines of discussion. (Especially the straight ones, who are presumably the ones you are most interested in discussing your feelings with.) Try to at least not catch them by total surprise. Ambushing isn't nice. Although it admittedly can be amusing, sort of like Halloween freak-o-rama time.

By all means talk to him - just offer a bit of warning and an escape hatch, not to mention the explicit permission to use it as long as you can revisit the topic a bit later when he's better-prepared. You might be pleasantly surprised at how few men use said escape hatch if they aren't caught unprepared.

Guys are taught by society to be dolts where feelings are concerned. It's a pretty brutal process we go through to be stripped of our sensitivity. And no, dudes, you weren't "born that way" and it's not "just who you are" - you were taught. Have you ever seen a three year old boy unable to express his emotions? Witness instead what happens to him if he DOES. A few rounds of sanctioning and indoctrination and mockery for daring to express himself, especially if he is being sensitive or sad or afraid, and he'll learn quick enough to shut them down. This process starts as children ("Big boys don't cry", "Grow up and don't be a sissy" messages, etc.) and accelerates vigorously as he gets older, particularly in certain segments of society. Men and women are both penned into restrictive sets of gender-role expectation. One of the big locks on the men's prison is the "don't ask don't tell" clause.

Meanwhile, you guys need to learn to identify and then talk about your feelings a bit better with the ladies because it is, after all, a critically important way to communicate and therefore understand (and hopefully love) one-another better.

It's not just because she likes and wants to talk - like broccoli, it's actually GOOD for you! Like learning to brush your teeth voluntarily and use the potty properly, eventually you will see actual BENEFITS to learning to think through and vocalize your feelings. Internalizing those values will definitively benefit you. Your woman will deeply appreciate increased communication, but so will you!

We need to dispense with this destructive idea in our culture that "real men don't talk" and that to do so is somehow unmasculine. What a crock of shit!

Let's all move to the center! It'll be a shade crowded but fun!

Posted by: Jon at November 16, 2007 1:08 PM

Reminds me of the list of tips for women who want to have "emotional intercourse" with their men in Jack Kammer's "If Men have all the Power, How Come Women make the Rules?"

1. Don't just snap your fingers and say, "Open up."

2. Though you may feel a strong urge to "do it," men are different. Intercourse does not have to be in and out, back and forth. Men value and enjoy non-verbal intercourse, like being understood and accepted for what they are, not what they say.

3. You can't force intercourse and expect your man to enjoy it. You might force him to fake an understanding to get it over with.

4. Men will not jump into emotional intimacy with just anyone. Men know that women are always ready to get into somebody's head. You must convince him that he is not just another piece of mind.

10. If your thrusting and probing hurts him, stop immediately. Don't assume he'll start to like it just because you do.

11. Allow him to initiate. Don't hit on him with so many requests for intercourse that he never feels the urge to start intercourse at his own pace, according to his own needs.

12. Men are often shy and insecure about their flaws and blemishes, about whether you will find them attractive. Don't expect your man to show you everything right away.

13. Remember that good intercourse is not a wrestling match. There should be no winner and no loser.

14. Respect your lover as an equal partner.You don't own him; he does not exist for the sole purpose of providing your pleasure.

15. If you have ever abused him during intercourse, understand that it may take a long, long time for your man to open up to you again.

20. Don't get hung up on achieving simultaneous understanding. Men's understandings take longer, but they are usually more intense.

21. Respect him in the morning.

(Since I'm lifting his work wholesale, I ought to point out that the whole Ebook is available as a pdf at http://www.rulymob.com/ )

Posted by: Paddybrown at November 17, 2007 6:25 AM

Men value and enjoy non-verbal intercourse, like being understood and accepted for what they are, not what they say.

Licker is quicker.

The whole list reads like something from one of the feminists, calling for "egalitarian sex."

Gross.

Don't lift other people's work wholesale and post it on my site. It's a copyright violation. I'll delete a bunch of these so it won't be. (In the middle.)

Posted by: Amy Alkon [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 17, 2007 8:08 AM

Remember that good intercourse is not a wrestling match.

Says who?

Again, this list grosses me out.

In the effort of avoiding getting into overshare, I'll just post Woody Allen's famous remark, "Sex is only dirty when it's done right."

It's fucking, not rules for not getting thrown out of nursery school.

Posted by: Amy Alkon [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 17, 2007 8:12 AM

'The whole list reads like something from one of the feminists, calling for "egalitarian sex."'

Uh, yeah. It's a parody. I thought it was quite funny.

As a brief passage from a longer work, I thought it'd be okay copyright-wise, but it's your site, you make the rules.

Posted by: Paddybrown at November 17, 2007 9:47 AM

Oops, well don't I feel dumb!

It just read like so much serious stuff from the "movement"s.

Okay, everybody line up for pin the tail on The Advice Goddess!

Posted by: Amy Alkon at November 17, 2007 10:20 AM

As for copyrights, please only post short excerpts of others' work -- like 10 points, not 20. That I'm serious about -- valuing others' copyrights.

Yours, The Advice Goddass

Posted by: Amy Alkon at November 17, 2007 10:21 AM

Gotcha!

(Dances around going na-na na na-na etc)

You wouldn't be the first to take a joke seriously. Done it myself. Fair enough on the copyright though.

Posted by: Paddybrown at November 17, 2007 11:18 AM

Sigh...the high cost of going to the computer without Ristretto (ristrettoroasters.com, get the Sumatra Mandheling, ground fine for espresso, then make it as regular coffee).

Posted by: Amy Alkon at November 17, 2007 11:24 AM

(Dances around going na-na na na-na etc)

okay, now I've got visions of Eric Cartman from South Park in my head. Thanks ever so!

Posted by: Flynne [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 19, 2007 10:32 AM

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