The Larva Of The Party
I love to dress up and go socialize with people. My boyfriend, however, can only smile friendly and chitchat for about 20 minutes before he seats himself in some corner and starts reading the host's books. Last time we went to a dinner party, I found him alone in a room petting the owner's dog! I do introduce him around and encourage him to be more outgoing. I think if he'd just make more of an effort to talk to people, he'd have a better time. He says he's not miserable but just can't do this social stuff for long. I love having him with me, even though he's kind of not actually with me. So, can it work with a self-proclaimed introvert and a party girl?
--Social Butterfly
It's a party! You're in your element, making the rounds, meeting tons of new people, racking up invites to parties after the party, and your boyfriend's, well, probably in that little crawl space under the host's stairs.
Sartre once said, "Hell is other people at breakfast." An introvert sees no reason to narrow it down to a particular time of day. My own introvert boyfriend is charming and fun one on one, but his favorite kind of party is one that's canceled, and his preferred RSVP would be something Ving Rhames said on the set of "Out of Sight": "I don't want to talk to anybody I don't already know."
Ever since Freud decided (sans evidence) that introverts were repressed, narcissistic trolls under the bridge, extraversion has been considered the ideal and introverts have been seen as socially stunted. Introversion is also wrongly conflated with shyness, but shyness is fear- and shame-based -- quite different from seeing no reason to say anything to strangers unless you or they are on fire.
More and more, research points to a strong biological basis for personality. Brain imaging shows distinct differences in introverts and extraverts. Studies by neuroscientist Debra L. Johnson and others found that extraverts, who get energized from external stimulation like meeting new people, have increased blood flow to rear areas of the brain for sensory processing (like listening, touching, watching). Introverts, who tend to be more pensive and introspective, and are easily overwhelmed by too much external stimulation, showed more blood flow altogether (indicating more internal stimulation), over more complicated pathways, with more activity in frontal regions for inward tasks like problem-solving, reasoning, and remembering. Put that together with a Chinese study adding evidence that introverts get socked with a higher level of cortical arousal from stimuli, and you get the idea that urging introverts to be more outgoing is a bit like urging scissors to be more like a stapler.
So, can it work between you and a boyfriend who probably researches the host's wallpaper so he can dress to blend into the background? Well, maybe -- if you're independent enough to show up to most events without him as Your Date™. There will, of course, be times when it means something to you to have him there, and the compromise then is his to make. Be sensitive to his feelings, try to get there early (when the houseplant-to-guest ratio is greatest), and be okay with him eventually slinking off to read "The Life History of the Dung Beetle" or talking to the dog (who's sometimes the most interesting person at the party).
There will, of course, be times when it means something to you to have him there
Absolutely. Pick your battles, LW. Don't make the guy suffer because you need to be seen with him. I'm an introvert with extravert tendencies (because I'm Southern and get the talk-to-anyone-about-anything gene from both sides) and I can attest that, no matter how interesting and enjoyable those couple of people out of the whole crowd are, it's not always worth having to socialize with the rest of the uninterested and the sinfully boring.
The LW buys back her seemingly selfish POV here:
I think if he'd just make more of an effort to talk to people, he'd have a better time.
I think this is a case of good intentions gone wrong because she thinks her boyfriend's brain is like hers and she really does want him to be happy. He'd probably be happiest hearing about the party-- with you telling him, in your funny and charming way, about how what's-her-name got sloshed and took a header into the dessert table.
NumberSix at August 24, 2010 9:23 PM
Extroverts and introverts - two types of people who can have a lot of trouble understanding one another. If a young introvert can "smile friendly and chitchat for about 20 minutes" he's actually doing incredibly well. I mean, who really cares about the film some random acquaintance saw last week? If chitchat doesn't come naturally, it takes incredible amounts of mental energy.
The tough issue for the introvert is: what does he do with himself after 20 minutes? These things can go on for hours, and it really is a bit impolite to sit down in a corner and start reading, or to disappear into the back room to pet the dog.
On the other hand, it can help to retreat to a place by yourself, and take a few minutes to recover. As long as you do go back, everyone just assumes you were talking to someone else.
I'm not so sure about showing up early - it will just make the event last all the longer, unless you then also leave early.
bradley13 at August 25, 2010 12:38 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/08/the-larva-of-th.html#comment-1746359">comment from bradley13At a friend's recent party, she asked my introverted boyfriend to go over and "rescue" her introverted husband who she thought had been waylaid by a little old lady who (I believe) crashed the party. Her husband came back to her and said, "I didn't need rescuing! She was Maurice Stans' secretary during the Nixon administration!"
She actually turned out to be pretty interesting. I sat with her and Gregg a while, and listened to her talk about her rather interesting life, and Gregg ended up talking her for the rest of the party, and actually had a good time!
At the end of the party, the little old lady said she was going to the grocery store (about four blocks away). We offered to drive her there or drive her home, but she said, "No, thank you; I'm walking there," and went off into the night pulling a tiny rollaboard, like the granny carts they take to the market in Paris, where she'd (I think) lived at one point.
The point: Being introverted doesn't mean you live in a cave and shun all human contact; you probably just can't take a whole lot of it at once. If there's Hollywood chitchat or too many people there, that's when Gregg goes off and looks for the dog.
Amy Alkon at August 25, 2010 2:15 AM
Her boyfriend sounds just like me :-)
crella at August 25, 2010 4:01 AM
It's so unfortunate that "introvert" is equated with "wierd," as introverts are clearly far superior... kidding. Sort of.
The social chit chat issue for an introvert, in a nut shell, boils down to the fact that in terms of interaction, introverts go for QUALITY, not quantity. A one-on-one interaction that is actually interesting, like Amy and Gregg's chat with the little old lady - in which it sounds like they made an actual, meaningful connection with another human, is a million times more rewarding than hours of shallow chit-chatty drivel about shallow, stupid stuff.
Hear, hear Amy: the dog indeed is typically the most interesting person at the party.
Good (albeit old) article about introversion:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200303/rauch
Also, cover story of the current issue of Psych Today: "Revenge of the Introvert."
Thank you for this one, Amy!
trina at August 25, 2010 7:03 AM
It could be because of a couple things.
A. He doesn't actually like her friends. But is polite enough to not say so ,and ruin the evening.
B. As said, 20 min is about all the conv he wants to do.
C. The Dog is more interesting than the others.
D. Topic of conversations may be stuff he couldn't care less about. Which I know I've found in several parties.
Joe at August 25, 2010 1:03 PM
Really, since sex and drinking too much at parties is now frowned upon, there is not much reason to go. The conversation is terrible, unless you get very lucky.
I once went to a party where there nude entertainers having sex with other. Things got more interesting from there.
Now, that was a party.
But you weenies, go ahead and keep talking to the dog. Live it up, pussies.
BOTU at August 25, 2010 1:29 PM
Well said. Often the dog is the most interesting person at a party. :) I'm just not a people person, wish I was, but I'm not. I find that most of the things people talk about in social situations are just vacuous. Although, that impression may be due to the fact that I don't go to a lot of parties, maybe I just haven't found the interesting ones. Mostly I'd rather sit on back porch, light up the grill and hang out with a couple people. That's what a party should be like.
There's nothing wrong with being either an introvert or an extrovert. We're just different.
Scott at August 25, 2010 3:32 PM
Per the LW: "I think if he'd just make more of an effort to talk to people, he'd have a better time."
Translates to: "I think if he'd just make more of an effort to do what I wanted him to, I'd have a better time.
NumberSix's comment above suggests it's a case of good intentions gone wrong. Maybe so, and maybe I'm feeling a little pissy this morning, but I suspect the boyfriend just doesn't like parties or crowds, and encouraging (nagging, depending on your point of view) him to mix won't change that.
Old RPM Daddy at August 26, 2010 5:53 AM
Reminds me of a terribly introverted acquaintance who one day decided he wanted to be the life of the party. His approach was to walk up to anybody and everybody and talk incessantly. Unfortunately, although he now talked a lot, he still didn't have anything to say, and people soon started avoiding him. You can't change a leopards spots ... even if he wants to. Or as Mark Twain said: "Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think your a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
AllenS at August 26, 2010 1:53 PM
" urging scissors to be more like a stapler."
Love that line, Amy!
I will try and remember this when trying to get my introverted new husband to be more like me and be extroverted. I do forget sometimes how different we are and put my own ideas onto him. If he was exactly like me, I probably wouldn't have fallen in love with him but often find that I wish he were more outgoing because I am. I guess we don't both have to be the life of the party!
linny at August 26, 2010 2:38 PM
Does anybody notice that most of the introvert/extrovert pairs seem to be male/female.
Same with me and my gf I am usually the introvert watching or reading my PMP. I go to the bar to read and smoke a cigar, rarely to socialize.
I think many men once they reeled in that woman they go back to be their normal introvert selves.
John Paulson at August 27, 2010 6:58 AM
I was once part of a team that was all introverts, except for one extroverted woman who used to basically think out loud. She wasn't stupid, that was just her method of processing information and coming to conclusions. Once you got past the fact that she talked a lot, she was a real asset to the team. We just needed to let her think her way.
Like Scott said, people are different. Use it to your advantage, or let it drive you crazy, the choice is yours. They can't change. It's who they are.
MarkD at August 27, 2010 4:38 PM
The trouble here may be that the parties you are going to are just lame parties.
I have a suggestion. Throw a small dinner party yourself and invite stimulating people with a mind toward what combinations of people might make for interesting conversation. I'll bet your boyfriend would enjoy socializing more if it was a diverse group of people with complimentary interests.
For example, a conductor of a symphony and a high school baseball coach. There are some similarities there, but your boyfriend won't be subjected to "shop talk". That sort of thing. A little specific, I know, but it's just an example.
In other words, don't just indiscriminately invite everyone you know. Think of yourself as a booking agent on a talk show. Once a truly good conversation sprouts up, it draws everyone in -- including introverts. I would bet your boyfriend would enjoy such a party and might heel to your tyrannical will. (just kidding)
Oh, and by the way, if you know a funeral home director, invite him at all costs. They are always, without exception, hilarious at parties! (I'm absolutely not kidding about that.)
jonQPublic at August 28, 2010 5:47 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/08/the-larva-of-th.html#comment-1747437">comment from jonQPublicThe trouble here may be that the parties you are going to are just lame parties.
Please read my column before commenting!
Do you understand that introverts and extraverts have different responses within their BRAINS to stimulus? That introverts seem to have more sensitivity to it than extraverts? That they are easily overloaded by it? It's not about "lame parties."
Last night, we went to the LAObserved party at Formosa. My boyfriend didn't want me to drive there myself so he took me. As soon as we got there, he looked at the packed-in crowd in horror and said "Sit down on the couch with me, then you can get up and go talk to people. I'll just sit here and I'll be fine." I told him we could leave relatively soon. He said, no, he'd be fine on the couch. He ended up being fine in general: finding a corner to stand in and having conversations with three people for lengths of time: our friend Ross, our friend Tibby and a friend of hers, and then, for about an hour and a half, some guy who was in a sort of well-known band back in the day who knew about as much about music as he did. He met that guy because the guy passed him when he was talking with Tibby, when he was mentioning some (probably surf) band nobody else but he and Tibby would have known, and the guy was impressed. The last thing my boyfriend is going to do, unless you're somebody he needs to talk to for his work (in which case, he's amazing at approaching people) is approach you and introduce himself. That's because...he's an introvert! And as I wrote in the column, asking an introvert to be more outgoing is like asking a scissors to be more like a stapler!
Amy Alkon at August 28, 2010 7:56 AM
Hi Amy.
I did read your column before commenting and clearly understood the points you made.
The reason for my post was to express an opinion of my own rather than to parrot the points that you made in your column.
Your story about the party you attended the other night seems to help make my point. I'm glad your boyfriend enjoyed his evening.
jonQPublic at August 28, 2010 2:25 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/08/the-larva-of-th.html#comment-1747520">comment from jonQPublicIt doesn't make your point in the slightest. He made the best of it by ducking into a corner and avoiding overstimulation. I felt bad about him being there at all, but he didn't want me parking in a dicey area by myself, and insisted on going with me.
Introverts seem to be fueled by acetylcholine while extraverts seem to get a dopamine surge from external stimuli. In other words, I probably get a chemical buzz from a crowd of strangers to talk to -- my boyfriend feels discomfort. Again, it's not about "lame" parties. Life is short; I don't go to them.
Amy Alkon at August 28, 2010 2:59 PM
Thank you, Amy! And I do appreciate the fact that you pointed out that Freud, merely by virtue of being Freud, was the one who got to decided what is right and what is wrong.
When I point out to people that I'm an introvert myself, my more outgoing friends often give me a pitying look and say something like, "But it doesn't have to be that way."
Well, it does have to be that way. Also, since the underlying suggestion with such comments is there is something wrong with being introverted, I also feel the need to point out that introversion is simply an orientation, not a disorder.
This might stir up some interesting conversation among my friends on Facebook.
Patrick at August 29, 2010 12:51 PM
bradley writes:
This is incorrect. Extraverts have a lot of trouble understanding introverts. Introverts have never had any trouble at all understanding extraverts.
Patrick at August 29, 2010 3:40 PM
test
Gregg Sutter at August 29, 2010 5:16 PM
"I think if he'd just make more of an effort to talk to people, he'd have a better time."
LW, your boyfriend LIKES petting dogs and reading books - that IS his idea of a 'better time' - that's why he naturally seeks that out. He'll be happiest if he realises that it's perfectly acceptable to be like that, and the more you realise that that is just who he is and what he prefers, and stop pushing him to do stuff that doesn't interest him. Just because you think people are endlessly fun, doesn't mean everyone does. I think computer programming is fun, but I don't think everyone around me would be better off "learning" to find it fun too. I'm also an introvert, and frankly, people literally just aren't that interesting to be with to me. It's not that I don't care about them, and it's not that I don't have the "social skills" to engage with people, it's just that engaging with people is mostly boring to me. Most people are boring most of the time. They talk about inane things. Their conversations and jokes are mostly basically "repeats" of the same conversations and jokes we've all heard a bazillion times before. I'd MUCH rather pet a dog or read books at a party, and for some odd reason I spent the first 30 years of my life thinking there was something "wrong" with that, and that I was supposed to "learn" to be "more sociable". I've heard it all before from people like you, many times, the unsolicited advice and 'encouragement'. Eventually I realised that's just not my thing, and "that's OK".
"... talking to the dog (who's sometimes the most interesting person at the party)"
Lol - I love that.
Lobster at August 29, 2010 5:49 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/08/the-larva-of-th.html#comment-1747819">comment from Lobster"that's OK". "... talking to the dog (who's sometimes the most interesting person at the party)" Lol - I love that.
Heh, heh...got the most amazing hate mail on that: "Dogs are stupid and lick their poo, fuck off and die!"
Um, it's a joke.
But, sometimes may be true.
Gregg has been coming with me to Starbucks on Sunday, and he talked at length with my friends Richard and Charlie, who are really great guys from Detroit. Earlier, some guy I know a little came over to ask about my book, and Gregg never looked up from what he was reading, but I knew exactly what was going through his head: "Go away, don't talk to me, I'm not here, etc."
Amy Alkon at August 29, 2010 6:29 PM
These are people who do not deserve to be in the presence of a dog.
When you talk to a dog, they hang on your every word. Never mind that they're waiting for you to say something like "cookie" or "walk". They PAY ATTENTION.
And no matter what you say to them, they still love you.
Your cat, on the other hand, could give a fuck.
brian at August 30, 2010 7:56 AM
"Your cat, on the other hand, could give a fuck."
You haven't met my cat, she's the sweetest cat ever ... she's like a cat with a dog-like personality ... very well-mannered, loves being with people, listens when I talk, comes when I call her, and actually 'converses' and understands some basic conversation.
Lobster at August 30, 2010 9:23 AM
I am a very strong introvert (woman) with a very strongly extraverted man. What JonQPublic says and what Amy says both resonate with me: it does matter what type of party it is. As an introvert I perhaps just have a different definition of what makes a "lame party" than the average extravert's definition.
It doesn't matter much to me whether the party is loud and crowded as long as there is a place to go to that is out of the way where I can have longer conversations with interesting people (like Amy's boyfriend did in the corner with the music guy). Perhaps it's my internally focused introvert brain but I have no problem whatsoever blocking out all the chaos and noise and what I perceive to be boring and superficial conversations going on. I can do that ONLY IF I find someone to talk to that I find interesting, and generally that means talking about something of depth and substance. This can go on for a few minutes or a few hours, and as long as the conversation is interesting and it doesn't take too long to wade through the superficialities to get to the interesting conversation, I am a happy girl. If I can't find interesting people to talk to or the circumstances of the party don't let me go off exploring on my own, then I get wonky and tired. Of course talking to the dog is always a perfectly good option. Dogs are perfect :-)
So to me, a lame party is a party where it is set up only to cater to extraverts - where there aren't places to go to get into in-depth conversations with people or where the host has taken it upon him or herself to make the social engagement a one-size-fits-all event: e.g. I often get bored and tired at parties where the music is too loud for conversation of any kind, where everyone is seated at a big table and conversations are shifting from small groups to big groups but I cannot get away, and ESPECIALLY where someone - the host, my date, other guests, etc., are pressuring me to be part of the group because they think I should be. I often do dip in and out of groups and have a good time doing it, but pressuring me to do that is a good way to get me grumpy and stubborn very fast. And then I just want a nap.
Interestingly, my partner seems to be MUCH more influenced by his surroundings because of his extraversion than I am. He goes with the flow or the mood of the room in a way that is almost uncontrollable to him. If he wants to party and be social, he wants a loud and crowded room with alcohol flowing and a lot of laughter and talking/shouting. If he wants to focus and be calm, he wants to be in a sparse room with just him and his project. As an introvert, I am much more able to go into my head to indulge in/ create the mood I am in or want to be in.
That might be why the extraverts are always pressuring the introverts to do whatever they are doing.
My partner and I have been together for over 5 years and we have really learned to respect each other for what we are in that respect and be complementary, rather than competitive. Often that does mean me leaving parties or bars earlier if I get tired. But I appreciate him taking the reins on these new experiences (and I love seeing him in his element!) and he appreciates me bringing him into a rich internal worldview.
CL at August 30, 2010 3:02 PM
Thanks CL. That's exactly what I was talking about, only you said it better. I don't think Amy and I were disagreeing as much as she thought we were, we just have a different definition of a "lame" party.
I'm with you. As long as the party doesn't have really loud music that prevents conversation, a good conversationalist and a good corner can be found to please everyone.
There is one thing on which I do disagree with Amy's original position. That is that introverts experience an over-stimulation in a large, loud, party situation. I've never checked on what my brain waves are doing in such a situation, but, as an introvert, it sure as hell FEELS like an almost unbearable level of under-stimulation. I'll bet CL would agree.
jonQPublic at August 30, 2010 9:14 PM
Prob late in the comment thread but...
@jonQPublic: yes, that is an interesting way of putting it - feeling as if it is understimulating to be in those groups of loud chaos. I definitely can see that, and I would also use the word bored. I think one thing extraverts may not understand about introverts is that we process things internally all the time. So if I don't find something to take from the external world to process and integrate into my internal system, I will either just go back into my head to find something unrelated to the present moment to think about or I will sift through the external chaos to find something to interest me so I can internally process it. At a "lame party" or a place where Amy might say an introvert is being overstimulated, for me it's just that I am scanning the environment for something to interest me and I am prevented from doing so because of the format of the party. And that is frustrating and boring.
I don't like these constricting party formats where I am forced to interact with a group over a long stretch of time because it puts me in constant scanning mode where I am not interested in anything and I am not making sense of anything; that's tiring.
Thinking about this more I realize the way I sometimes react to this sense of being bored and trapped is to try to inject something interesting into the conversation which means I may say something that ppl think is bizarre or offensive. But it is just a way of trying to move the conversation to a deeper and more substantive level. That's what I mean when I say I get wonky and tired. Better to let us introverts find our own ways to have fun at parties and not make us do everything the group is doing, or we may want to shake things up a bit for the entertainment value of it :-).
CL at August 31, 2010 11:25 AM
Trina linked to Jonathan Rauch's article on introverts, which is the single best thing ever written on the subject:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/03/caring-for-your-introvert/2696/
His definition, which jives well with Amy's more technical one: extraverts gain energy by interacting with others, while introverts lose energy (and therefore need time alone reading books or petting the dog to recover).
His conclusion: 'How can I let the introvert in my life know that I support him and respect his choice? First, recognize that it's not a choice. It's not a lifestyle. It's an orientation. Second, when you see an introvert lost in thought, don't say "What's the matter?" or "Are you all right?" Third, don't say anything else, either.'
Astra at August 31, 2010 11:52 AM
I'm coming late to this party... er, post, but this sitch perfectly describes my wife and I. For me, big, raucous get-togethers are often trying, so I make a point of looking for *other* introverts and talking to them for a bit.
They're easy to find. I look in the kitchen, behind the couch, in the corners. Guaranteed there's some husband who doesn't know anybody else, or a girlfriend who is new and hasn't met these people yet. We often end up having good one-on-one chats for a while, which makes the evening much more tolerable.
Tom Accuosti at September 3, 2010 10:07 AM
My husband has his own circle of friends, that I, as an extrovert, get along with well. At the same time, I have my circle of friends, most of whom I have been friends with since high school or shortly thereafter, whom he can not tolerate. He is very smart and has very little tolerance for people who lack common sense, are self proclaimed airheads, never left high school and college childish attitudes behind, etc. Therefore, if I get an invitation to the party, I sincerely extend the invitation to him, but don't expect him to accept it. If the occasion is something important to my family or me, and I would like him to be there, I let him know how much it would mean to me to have him there, without pressuring him or telling him he HAS to go. That way, usually he will agree to go, with the stipulation that if he at any point in time becomes uncomfortable or irritable, he might get "called into work" or the food didn't agree with him.
erica at October 3, 2010 12:09 PM
Richard Said:
Someone also mentioned the Atlantic article.
I posted a link to that on facebook. A bunch of people were "Yayyy!" "Right on!"
Others were... not so understanding. As in "Elitist crap" "Just an excuse".
What was most hurtful was some of it came from my own family. Trying to explain to them that by their standards, since I liked programming, perhaps they should too, didn't sit well ("but that's BORING!").
Darius at May 17, 2011 6:36 PM
I think, if you want to come to be known as the person who has parties everyone enjoys, you should have a room set aside, out of the way, with a tv and some magazines, maybe the dog. The introverts can go in there to decompress, they can even meet each other and compare notes about how lame the other guests are.
nonegiven at May 17, 2011 9:25 PM
Leave a comment