Lack Of Space, The Final Frontier
I need about three nights a week to myself or I feel smothered. Last night, my sweet new boyfriend wanted to hang out for the fifth night in a row. I told him I needed some down-time, and he said okay, but sounded hurt.
--Independent Woman
For many people, love is finding somebody, then doing whatever they can to see that they never leave that person's side. That did work for Romeo and Juliet. Then again, they were fictional. And dead. Explain to your boyfriend that you need down-time because you need down-time; you've always been that way, and it has nothing to do with him. Set aside certain nights as date nights so he won't be standing there staring up at the tower wondering when you'll let down your hair. We all know that endless togetherness can start to feel rather, well, endless; we just hate to admit it. Help him see that what's truly romantic is having the chance to miss each other, and he just might be the guy who inspires you to blurt out, "You had me at 'Goodbye, see ya in a coupla days.'"
Let me translate:
Letterwriter: "Ms. Alkon, please tell me that I can tell my boyfriend to bug off once in a while."
Ms. Alkon: "You may."
Spartee at November 24, 2010 7:47 AM
Set aside certain nights as date nights so he won't be standing there staring up at the tower wondering when you'll let down your hair.
This is good advice LW. Whether you make it a regular 'certain nights' thing or just tell him when you *will* see him when you say you can't that night, leave him with some certainty as to when you'll next be together and he'll find it much easier to bear. It's the wondering that drives people nuts.
Ltw at November 24, 2010 9:28 AM
Actually, Romeo and Juliet DID leave each others' side, he went out of town, in fact, which is how the mix-up in messages happened. If he had stayed by her side, they'd still be alive today.
That is, if "today" were several hundred years ago...
NicoleK at November 24, 2010 9:42 AM
My Dearly Beloved is much the same as the letter writer - for every hour he spends with someone, he needs 2x that amount of time alone to decompress. We did live together (temporarily) and probably spend more time with each other now that we're in separate houses than we did before. I understood that being around other people made him antsy and so I spent a lot of time out of the house doing other stuff without him.
Of course, I could have whined and shrieked and demanded he spend all his time with me me me! but then I would probably be single now.
Choika at November 24, 2010 10:58 AM
I totally get the LW. She needs to explain to him just how freaked out (and possibly unpleasant) she gets when she doesn't have enough down time. It's do-able. I've had to have this talk with quite a number of men in my life. Some get it, some don't.
ie at November 24, 2010 12:42 PM
When we went on vacation, I had a little panic at first. Oh no, 7 days, 24 hours, of togetherness! I miss him when' he's not here, but had gotten used to my 2 days/1 night of aloneness.
It worked out in the end, because we both value alone time. He'd go fish, I'd go for a bike ride, we'd meet up later & fish, or just sit around. Even his parents visiting didn't crimp anyone's style. They did their own things part of the time too.
Now if only I could solve the feeling of always eating, on vacations. Like most of the day is focused on food. When should we eat, where should we eat, should we eat now, should we eat again, eat eat eat! LOL
MeganNJ at November 24, 2010 12:44 PM
LW – Your “new boyfriend” doesn’t sound like has had enough time to get over his infatuation with you, and start to enjoy what a great relationship he’s landed. I think Amy’s advice is great. Not only do you need to set things straight by letting him know you are not available every single time he desires to go out with you, but he needs to respect your space more.
I just want to say this is the first blog I have ever participated. I’m not even sure how I found Amy’s columns, but I couldn’t help myself from reading past advice. I read all the way back to June 8th! Number Six, LtW, ie, (and many others!!) I love your comments. Amy, your advice is terrific and I am now a weekly reader.
Miranda at November 24, 2010 12:51 PM
Set aside certain nights as date nights so he won't be standing there staring up at the tower wondering when you'll let down your hair.
Yes! I bet this is where the LW's running into trouble. She asks him to give her some space, but leaves it open-ended on when he can next invade that space. I'm not saying she's doing it on purpose, but that's classic stringing-along behavior. I'll add that she needs to explain calmly, which means not in a fit of frustration with him when he doesn't want to leave her by herself. LW, lay out your need for more time to yourself with reasons for it and do as Amy suggests and make fixed plans, or at least fixed days for plans. If it goes right, you'll get your space and he gets the certainty that he will actually see you again.
Welcome, Miranda! You did know that the Advice Goddess Policy Handbook states that new posters must send delicious chocolaty desserts to the older ones, right?
NumberSix at November 24, 2010 4:21 PM
I like the part about letting him know when you can see him again. I think most of the time people aren't sure if "I need some space" means "go away and don't come back."
KrisL at November 24, 2010 6:58 PM
Set up certain nights as date nights so he won't be standing there . . . really? Maybe you are just two different people with different needs his no less important than your own. It is not right for everyone but some couples like to spend almost all their time together. The sooner you are straight with him, the sooner you both will figure out if this tower is worth climbing. I certainly did not jump to the conclusion that he was not respecting her space. Her feeling smothered may have nothing to do with him and everything to do with her withholding her true feelings. There is always the risk that if she does, her "sweet new boyfriend" may take his chances at finding someone who would appreciate his attention.
Eileen at November 24, 2010 7:26 PM
She asks him to give her some space, but leaves it open-ended on when he can next invade that space. I'm not saying she's doing it on purpose, but that's classic stringing-along behavior.
Exactly NumberSix. For this one I was speaking from personal experience - I like my space myself and need a lot of alone time, so I understand it in others. But I always want to know *when* I'll see someone again, I hate "talk soon". I don't care if it's a week as long as I know when. Of course, for some people that makes them feel trapped and so I'm trying to break that compulsion. I don't think she's doing it on purpose either - she just doesn't realise that all she has to say is "I can't tonight but let's do something Sunday" and he'll probably wait patiently.
Thanks Miranda! And welcome from me also. I'll have a beer rather than chocolate, just to prove that NumberSix and I really are different people...
Ltw at November 24, 2010 10:57 PM
Although Ms. Alkon offered generally good advice, I gently disagree with the idea of setting aside certain nights to spend time together.
You never know when the mood will hit you. If Monday night is your "together night", and Monday happens to be the night that you just aren't feeling it, that'll hurt his feelings and this particular Monday will make you feel guilty as well as making him feel rejected.
When you broached (is that the right word?) the subject with him, you may have put it in-artfully. After all, it's a hard subject to put to someone. That subject being, "back the fuck off already, I'm quite comfortable keeping my own company and would just like a booty call once in a while."
jonQpublic at November 24, 2010 11:11 PM
I agree with you, jonQ. While I do think in this case it may be best to start out with at least fixed plans of when you'll talk about making further plans, addressing the issue is going to be awkward no matter how you slice it. Especially if boyfriend is quick to jump to the conclusion that she's about to dump him and/or LW is quick to push him away. Who knows, maybe he's not always like that to that degree and is being extra-clingy because he thinks she wants to be rid of him. Or maybe he's thinking she can take or leave him, so his plan of action is to be right in her line of sight so she won't lean to the leaving him side.
I think this is going to require some uncomfortableness from both parties at first. Yes, he needs to be able to realize that just because she wants some space she's not dumping him. But, if she wants this to be something other than sex three nights a week, she needs to get with the idea that it can't always be about what she wants. So I think maybe she should occasionally do something with him when she may not be feeling it. Eventually, they'll both get more comfortable in figuring out what their specific balance is rather than him clinging and her retreating.
Ltw: to complete our mind meld, we should both partake of this product. It's delicious.
NumberSix at November 24, 2010 11:28 PM
My now husband and I had a similar issue while we were dating, with him being the one in need of space. That stung for me because I was so emamored with him that I wanted to be together all the time. We made an arrangement where every Wednesday was "away night". That helped both of us. He had some breathing room, and it put and end to the awkward "can we not see each other today?" conversations.
Lindsayloowho at November 25, 2010 3:20 AM
Mmmmm, chocolate stout...how the hell do I get it shipped to Australia?
Ltw at November 25, 2010 3:56 AM
@NumberSix: I don't think these conversations always have to be fraught with difficulty. I'm the sort of person who is obviously introverted, which is probably why some of these men are attracted to me in the first place.
Bubbly extroverts aren't for everyone (although I love being around them because they take the social pressure off me!). So, it's kind of a given that I'm not a social tornado and I actually get distressed, headachy or anxious when I don't have enough down time.
My suffering is obvious, so when I start to feel that way, it's not hard to segue into a discussion about how I need alone time to feel normal or to recharge. If the guy is understanding--and amazingly a lot are--it's not hard to make them see that it's not about them.
This woman has probably been giving all sorts of cues and signals that define her personality as introverted. My guess is that the guy is too infatuated at this point to see it, which is not a bad thing, just a little roadblock that needs to be overcome.
The hope, however, is that it IS just his infatuation that's getting in the way of his seeing clearly, and NOT a sign of his prediliction for "changing" his partners. I've had that happen too. Some guy who thinks he's going to turn me into a social butterfly and then holds it against me when that doesn't happen. Now THAT'S painful.
She needs to make it clear to him that she is who she is and she's not in need of a social tune up to get up to speed with him. Women are always pegged as wanting to change their partners, but a surprising number of men are into doing that too.
I think that's the crux of the matter here. That the guy sees that this is a profound need of hers and not just a passing phase in her life.
ie at November 25, 2010 4:12 AM
That is, if "today" were several hundred years ago...
Posted by: NicoleK
And if it werent an allegory on the poinlessness of blood feuds, the inherent danger of personal revenge, and the selfish stupidity of spitfulness
lujlp at November 25, 2010 6:47 AM
I don't think these conversations always have to be fraught with difficulty.
I don't think that, either. But I do think that in this case it's going to be awkward for the simple fact that in her very short letter, the LW says she feels smothered and her boyfriend sounded hurt while pretending he was okay. That's why I think a calm explanation of where she's coming from is in order. And I'm with jonQ in that it's hard to say to someone you care about that you need him to back off, even if you have valid reasons for it. And if he's hurt but pretending otherwise, it's going to be a little hard for him to get comfortable with the fact that her needing space doesn't mean she's dumping him. He's going to feel a little bad because it's going to take a bit of time to get over his uncertainty; she's going to feel a little bad because she doesn't want to hurt him even though she's done nothing wrong (provided she calmly lays out her reasons and isn't just getting frustrated and blowing up at him). If it was going to be an easy conversation, she wouldn't have needed to write in to say her boyfriend was hurt even though he didn't want her to see it.
I'm not talking about high drama here. Just a little awkwardness as they figure out what their balance is for spending time together.
NumberSix at November 25, 2010 7:22 AM
If the LW can sincerely get it across, in the first few sentences, that it's HER issue and not his, it won't be a problem. I've done it numerous times myself.
I say, "Listen, all my life I've been unable to be surrounded by people nonstop without getting a little crazy. I have the opposite of cabin fever. If I DON'T get time alone time in a relationship, it won't work. In other words, our relationship will fail if I don't get some nights off. It's not about you, it's about what I'm capable of handling."
And then I emphasize that I've been like this my entire life. And, I provide anecdotes about what I was like when I was a kid--dreamy and off with my books, etc.
It always works, unless of course, you've got a guy who wants to turn you into a project, which is irritating beyond belief and, trust me, becomes obvious pretty quickly.
I had to ask someone for space a couple of years ago--when my mom moved in (I had committed to taking care of her for as long as it took for her to get into a nursing home). He kept turning up unannounced anyway, saying that I needed to get out more, I was "isolating," which he took to mean that I was harming myself. That was his opinion, which he obviously held in very high regard.
I'm just saying that being very direct isn't hard if this is such an important issue. And it is best to get it settled ASAP. There's no greater turn off than a moping partner.
ie at November 25, 2010 7:45 AM
Part of being compatible is being with someone who is ok with you (LW) needing down time. If it's a big ordeal EVERY time you say you're ready for a night off, that's going to make for a stressful relationship. I've had boyfriends who simply couldn't accept this in me, and ultimately those relationships didn't work. It turned my needing a night to myself into an ISSUE, which then made it hard to just relax on my night to myself if I did manage to actually get one, which made me feel smothered and resentful... you get the picture.
I think NOT making a big deal out of it is important. Put it to him like it's nothing big, it's just that you're ready for a night off, and it's nothing more than that. And you can also say that this is one thing that will make your relationship successful, so it's a positive thing in that way.
trina at November 25, 2010 11:41 AM
I think trina and ie definitely have the right approach. This is really the best use of the "It's not you, it's me" line. LW, making it clear that this is about you and not really much to do with him specifically will most likely ease his discomfort, or at least help him get over it faster. And great idea, trina, on framing the issue as a positive: making it "This will help us be better together" rather than "You're smothering me!" Unless he's just super-needy, he'll get over his discomfort with the situation faster and she won't feel as bad about potentially hurting him.
Though I still say she should throw him an extra night every once in a while so he's not the one making all the adjustments on the space front. I think that's another part of being compatible: figuring out how much you can give and take from each other without putting undue strain on the relationship.
That was his opinion, which he obviously held in very high regard.
Hee.
NumberSix at November 25, 2010 7:31 PM
There are a million arguments as to whether introvert-extrovert pairing is better or worse than introvert-introvert or extrovert-extrovert, and obviously each couple will have a unique experience with this. I just want to throw this into the discussion: In my experience, the extroverts I know have treated my introvertedness not merely with disrespect, but as a horrible disease. And I'm not even THAT "bad." As a gregarious introvert, I can do just fine at a social event, even be "the life of the party" as they say, but as a rule, I prefer a one-on-one conversation about something actually meaningful to shallow cocktail chit-chat, and I'll want to leave after a couple of hours and then follow up with some down time.
Amy has mentioned that she doesn't drag Gregg to social events where he won't be comfortable; she respects his introvertedness. It is only with an introverted boyfriend that I've found the magic balance of socializing vs. down time. And it is only with another introvert that I find I can achieve that peaceful, comfortable state of "being alone together," or hanging out at home, both of us reading or computer-ing, happily alongside each other, interacting when one of us comes across something of interest, but mostly just "sharing" quiet time. To me, that is the benefit of introvert-introvert pairing. It works for us, anyway.
trina at November 26, 2010 10:02 AM
OH, and only an introverted boyfriend has been capable of "allowing" me a couple of nights off a week without turning it into some kind of issue.
trina at November 26, 2010 10:05 AM
As a gregarious introvert, I can do just fine at a social event, even be "the life of the party" as they say, but as a rule, I prefer a one-on-one conversation about something actually meaningful to shallow cocktail chit-chat
Love that description "gregarious introvert" Trina. Patrick and I had a very similar discussion about a year ago I think. I do exactly the same - most people think I'm talkative and social, they don't see the two days of quiet it takes me to recover.
And it is only with another introvert that I find I can achieve that peaceful, comfortable state of "being alone together," or hanging out at home, both of us reading or computer-ing, happily alongside each other, interacting when one of us comes across something of interest, but mostly just "sharing" quiet time.
And that's the difference between a "friend" and a really close friend or partner. It's one of the criteria I use to tell the difference anyway.
Ltw at November 26, 2010 4:02 PM
Somehow, I can't think of anything useful to say to this twerpy little woman, or her twerpy little boyfriend.
Great lovers they are not.
BOTU at November 27, 2010 2:54 PM
BOTU, you and THAG need to get together.
IE at November 27, 2010 5:50 PM
Looks like I'm late the party, but I agree with most people on here.
Introverts are constantly told that something is wrong with their "quirks" and that they just need to "relax" and "open up." The LW needs to be clear about her needs, enforce her boundaries, and be very clear about the consequences of her not getting the alone time she needs.
sofar at November 28, 2010 10:44 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2010/11/lack-of-space-t.html#comment-1790116">comment from sofarMy boyfriend is an introvert, and I enjoy being by myself, and he's fine being solitary also, so we're a good match. Because I understand that he hates to go to parties, I try to go alone to a good many of them. He'll go if it's important to me, or if it's in a bad neighborhood (he won't want me to park there by myself), but it makes me happy if he's happy, and if he's happiest home alone reading about mountaintop removal mining and Stalin, I'm happy.
I do laugh at how he's so amazed at how I talk to everyone. We're in France now, and I just had a lengthy conversation with the cashier at Monoprix, where we bought groceries. He's amazed that I can be chatty and friendly with everyone in two languages (below par as my French is...if I can connect with another human, I'll find the words).
The thing is, you have to be together as a person to let another person have their freedom and solitude. If you aren't, this kind of relationship will never work.
Amy Alkon at November 28, 2010 10:56 AM
sometimes this is not resolvable in a reasonable way. my ex was always on my doorstep despite plans to the contrary. I found myself hiding out in my own home. He thought that was normal and desirable to be together always, I need more space.
zapf at December 4, 2010 8:42 AM
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