Pamper-Resistent
After six years with a lazy and ambitionless boyfriend, I found a funny, loyal, caring boyfriend I love, with a solid career and a good work ethic. He pays his share of our bills and even does our laundry! The problem is, at 28, he is SO incredibly spoiled by his parents. They are well-off and pay for his car insurance, randomly deposit $200 in his bank account (about once monthly), and even bought him new snow tires! He has made headway on small issues I've brought up, like cooking more than bachelor-type foods and playing video games less, but he says, "I'm not calling my parents and demanding they stop paying for my insurance, if that's something they want to do." Well, I can't feel we're in a marriage-potential relationship while he isn't fully self-sufficient. I worry that we'll have kids and he'll still be getting assistance from mommy and daddy. As an independent person who pays all her own bills, I want my man to do the same and to want to be independent from his parents, as well.
--Mama's Boy's Girlfriend
I get where you're coming from. When I was in my late teens, I was hot to be completely independent from my parents. Now that I'm in my late 40s, I wish my parents would get high on LSD and start paying my bills.
Just because your boyfriend's parents give him cash and snow tires (and don't even make him do tricks like a seal for every penny) doesn't mean he's spoiled. Pediatrician Bruce J. McIntosh, who coined the term "spoiled child syndrome," explains that what makes a kid "spoiled" -- sets him on a path to becoming a nasty and irresponsible adult brat -- is not parental indulgence but parental overindulgence, meaning parents' failure to set clear limits and expectations. McIntosh writes in the journal Pediatrics that overindulgent parents attempt "to meet the child's complex developmental needs with material gifts and uncritical acceptance while failing to provide essential guidelines for acceptable behavior." Their spoiled kids grow up into spoiled adults -- self-absorbed manipulators who lack consideration for others, have difficulty delaying gratification, and throw tantrums to get their way -- not the guy you describe: loyal, loving, and laundry-doing, with a good work ethic, and now compliantly expanding his culinary horizons beyond frozen pizza, Hot Pockets, and pasta that comes with a packet of crack-like powdered "cheese."
The fact that his parents pay for his car insurance is unlikely to cause a good guy, apparently raised with appropriate boundaries, to snap -- to start banging his boss over the head with his G.I. Joe to try to get a better parking space. What his parents are doing actually seems smart: giving him his inheritance while they're still around to see him enjoying it. Your asking him to demand they stop is like asking him to walk past a $20 bill he spots on the sidewalk just because he didn't earn it. Also, because kids and unforeseen expenses go together like peanut butter and anaphylactic shock, consider that having generous in-laws wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. (Kids say the darndest things: "Mommy, I might need the doctor to find my Lego again" and "I wanna go to grad school!")
You might also consider why you're so determined to swat the money fairy with a rolled-up newspaper. Unfortunately, we humans have a self-image-protecting need to justify our thinking as right, so once we've decided The Way Things Are, we tend to lock up our minds and refuse to let in any opposing viewpoints to argue their case. One possible way to remedy this is to start from the premise that you're human and therefore fallible. It also helps to consider whether your reasoning on a particular issue would more accurately be described as "emotioning." For example, could you be acting out of envy that your boyfriend has had advantages you haven't? Is it possible you have a fear hangover from your relationship with the slacker who started every day by getting a head start on napping?
Ultimately, the fairest, most sensible way to assess whether you have anything to worry about is to coolly examine the evidence. In the words of F. Scott Fitzgerald, "Action is character." Look at the kind of guy your boyfriend has shown himself to be, and then project that guy into scenarios in your future together. If you can just crank down the dimmer switch on your emotions, I suspect you'll find your way to a conclusion along these lines: that this loyal, loving, hardworking guy will continue to be all of those things and that you can rest assured that his plan for paying the kiddies' private-school tuition won't involve a truckload of lottery scratchers or a ski mask and a shotgun.
As a parent who "spoils" all her sons, my reasoning is that if I can make their life a tiny bit better, why not? I also plan to divest my extra cash toward down payments of their first homes, give them my old car when I trade up, and help fund their Roth IRAs. I do it because I can, and what else am I going to do with the extra?
If "independent" girlfriend can't see generosity for what it is and be happy for it, and later, as the largesse will extend, grateful for it, she needs to move along and save herself a life of feeling resentful that another person can show tangible love toward someone she loves. Find another "independent" person who doesn't have car insurance…hey, then she could be resentful that his parents don't pay for it when they could. Get a life!
pbjammin at March 11, 2014 5:43 PM
I'm with pbjammin - this is classic poor person thinking. She needs to check her motives and stop trying to train her boyfriend.
milo at March 11, 2014 7:55 PM
I'm starting to think the dominant figure in this scenario is not his mommy or daddy but her. The things she has gotten him to change seem like minor things and are self-improvements, such as learning to cook more diverse food and spending less time with video games. But her not wanting to accept money from his parents?
I sense the control issues in this picture are hers.
Yes, there are concerns about in-laws who exert too much control. Eleanor Roosevelt had a mother-in-law that you couldn't make up. She gave them a house, next to hers, and got hallways built between the two homes on every floor, so she could drop in any time she wanted. She made all decisions on the raising of the children and thought nothing of overruling any orders set down by poor Eleanor.
But she hasn't said anything that suggests that the parents are exerting any kind of control, or using their gifts for leverage.
Until that happens, if it does happen, I wouldn't worry about this. I'd be more worried about her.
Patrick at March 11, 2014 8:38 PM
Oi. Patrick's got a bead on this one. I hope she decides to MOA. That way the guy can move on to someone that doesn"t see him as a PROJECT to be FIXED.
you know damn well that once she changes him into what she wants, she won"t be interested anymore.
She's already planned the marriage, I wonder if she's thought about the end of it.
Y"know, it's possible to learn too much from a previous failure.
Rather than treating Mr Right Now, like the individual he is, she is taking all she learned about worthless slackers, and applying it to him.
Run the other way, man. When you smile and say nothing, it convinces her, she in not only right, but also correct.
Have you had the argument about folding the towels, yet?
SwissArmyD at March 11, 2014 9:05 PM
I just want to slap this woman across the room.
No! That's not what I meant!
I meant to say, maybe this poor thing just needs a little perspective. Maybe she just needs to talk to a few other women who would love to take this man off her hands, even with those pesky rich parents.
Plus I think she's projecting her former loser boyfriend's flaws onto this poor man.
Pricklypear at March 11, 2014 9:50 PM
So she's with a kind and loyal man who puts up with her nitpicking and she's griping about how he likes to play video games? She thinks he's "made headway" on "little issues" like...his hobbies? Girl, grow up. Video games aren't just for kids anymore. (p.s. they haven't been for a long time.) If you start dating a man who likes to play video games, your first act shouldn't be to try to get him to stop playing video games. If you don't like a man who plays video games (or does [x], where "x" equals "any hobby I don't enjoy myself"), then get yourself another man. I doubt you'd be any happier if he took the time he now spends on video games and used it for solo hiking, or studying Mandarin, or anything else that didn't involve hanging around with you.
If he played obsessively, you would have already moved on. Why begrudge him a little fun? You don't really need to take him to the mall so he can hold your purse while you shop. You don't need to spend every waking minute together. Why don't you look inward, perhaps, and get yourself a hobby so you don't spend all your time on man-improvement.
Jennifer at March 11, 2014 10:01 PM
Run the other way, man. When you smile and say nothing, it convinces her, she in not only right, but also correct.
Have you had the argument about folding the towels, yet?
Posted by: SwissArmyD at March 11, 2014 9:05 PM
You are so right. Perhaps she stayed with the worthless slacker for so long because he was resistant to change. The project was never finished so it remained interesting.
Also car insurance, very expensive for young men. Cheaper on the parents plan, and also cheaper with your multi vehicle discount.
This is a nice thing to do for your kids, that costs you less, than it would cost them.
Perhaps this woman is threated by close familiy relationships?
Her values are clearly not the same as his. I hope he escapes this relationship before it is too late.
She sounds like a nightmare.
Great column Amy.
Isab at March 11, 2014 10:24 PM
I've had the Clingy & Intrusive Future-MIL(TM) twice now. I wish either one of them would have come included with Financial Aid given how many things about my life and household they felt they were entitled to control. But LW that doesn't sound like what you have here. The clingy and intrusive one is YOU. As others have said: you don't love this man, you love having a project. My father recently gave me some money to help after a fire, does that make me spoiled? Even though I have been working since 14 and paid my own bills since 16?
[b][i]He has made headway on small issues I've brought up, like cooking more than bachelor-type foods and playing video games less..[/i][/b]
And now I want to punch you...
Guess what: my guys' cooking levels range from "ramen noodles" to "crockpot". I'm a cooking fiend. So we make it fair: I handle the cooking, mending and garden and they divy up the rest. Even one on one that theory works. He does laundry, you cook, how hard is that?
As far as video games: maybe I'm just defensive because I've a gamer and so are all my guys. The difference is that I don't feel threatened by my man having a hobby that doesn't involve me. I love my guys to the end of the Earth but I'm still me and like to do my own thing too. There is NOTHING wrong with it. Get a hobby. Buy your bf a video game. Order a pizza and loosen up. These small things mean nothing in the grander scheme and you are wrecking something that could be wonderful with your micromanagement.
bellflower at March 12, 2014 2:00 AM
Intergenerational help is common in my family. My parents helped us with our down payment for our house. Their parents helped them with their down payment for their house. Their parents... etc. etc.
Find out if your boyfriend intends to pay it forward.
NicoleK at March 12, 2014 2:40 AM
I hope your letter-writer reads these comments, because when you're 0 for 9 on your behavior, it might be time to reconsider what you're doing.
Oops, forget to include me: 0 for 10.
Ashirogi at March 12, 2014 4:23 AM
LW has not idea how good she has it! I wish my ex-in-laws had been as generous. They might not have ended up as ex-in-laws!
Flynne at March 12, 2014 4:58 AM
I pay car insurance for one of my daughters. Meh, she was on the policy already and it doesn't cost me anything I can't afford. It would be more of a pain in my ass to adjust the policy than to continue the painless bill.
My son always feels really bad when he needs to come to me for help, just as I did when I used to get help from my father. My son will understand better when he has children of his own. We parents really, really, really, don't mind helping. In fact, we enjoy it.
My father helped me out, I help my children out, they'll help their children out. It's what you do when you have more money than you need. It doesn't mean you're spoiling anybody. You're doing it for already productive kids after all. If you're giving money to support some slacker lifestyle, then you're spoiling. If you're just making life a little easier for your hard-working children, you're Dad.
whistleDick at March 12, 2014 5:10 AM
I almost wonder if she's projecting issues with her own parents, not so much the problems she had with her ex. If her own parents attached strings to everything they ever gave her, she's afraid they're going to use the money to manipulate him.
It doesn't sound like his parents are that way, and she just needs to learn that it's not like that in everyone's family.
If you wait until you die to pass your money on to your kids, the government will take a huge chunk of it. It's better to share it now, in smaller increments, while it's still tax-free.
Pirate Jo at March 12, 2014 5:16 AM
" spoiled adults -- self-absorbed manipulators who lack consideration for others,"
Sounds like the LW to me.
Joe j at March 12, 2014 7:01 AM
How did BF's parents know he needed snow tires or when his insurance payment was due and how much it was? BF is either asking for money or his parents are minding his business. LW doesn't sound like she's going to be comfortable with in-laws up her butt or a man who isn't financially a grown-up. If the parents feel generous, they can give money to charity or set up a trust for their children to protect it from taxes.
Back in the 90s, a couple of researchers wrote a book called The Millionaire Next Door, where they covered the topic of economic outpatient care:
"We found that the giving of such gifts is the single most significant factor that explains lack of productivity among the adult children of the affluent."
Parental gifts such as buying a house in a neighborhood their child couldn't afford or sending the grandkids to a private school can send their child on a treadmill of overspending to keep up with the Joneses.
Lori at March 12, 2014 9:24 AM
"How did BF's parents know he needed snow tires or when his insurance payment was due and how much it was? BF is either asking for money or his parents are minding his business. LW doesn't sound like she's going to be comfortable with in-laws up her butt or a man who isn't financially a grown-up. If the parents feel generous, they can give money to charity or set up a trust for their children to protect it from taxes."
Maybe he has been on their policy since he got his driver's license?
I think snow tires are a very practical gift.
The type of gifting you want to watch out for is gifting that undermines an adult individuals ability to keep a job, like enough money to develop a first class drug habit.
My mother has a philosophy about this. She says generous and affectionate people tend to raise generous and affectionate people.
People who are raised by stingy and cold people, generally become stingy and cold adults.
You might have a point if the man in question was running up huge credit card bills, and his parents were bailing him out all the time, but this clearly isn't the case.
Trusts are expensive. Costs of maintaining one will eat up a lot of the assets unless you are super wealthy.
One thing we seem to agree on, this woman should turn this guy loose. Their fundamental values are in conflict.
Isab at March 12, 2014 10:24 AM
Oh, and BF's parents "deposit [money] into his bank account"? They don't send checks or give him cash, but actually deposit money into his account? For them to do that, their names are on his account, or they have power of attorney, or they have all the account information and passwords to access his online accounts. In any case, his parents can see every transaction he makes.
Before forming a household, LW needs to know why the parents have so much access. The only reasons I can think of are that his parents are meddlers or they're managing his money for him.
Lori at March 12, 2014 10:32 AM
Isab already covered most of what I was going to say Lori but since you asked the second question: I can paypal money into the account of anyone I've transacted with. There are banks that offer this sort of transfer service as well. Also, in most places you can DEPOSIT into the account of anyone as long as you know certain relevant facts about them (and it would be pretty hard for his parent's NOT to know his name/address/dob/ssn). There's also a chance that he DOES have a parent on his account in the event of his death. He and the LW aren't married so who else would he have on there? I don't think the facts outlined in any way indicate that he's not "financially grown up". I think he comes from a loving and close-knit family and LW needs to calm down. Besides, he can't be have too much "lack of productivity" since in the LW's own words he has a solid career and a good work ethic. He pays his share of our bills and even does our laundry!
bellflower at March 12, 2014 10:46 AM
Lori, his account could be some old, shared savings account from his youth. We have one of those with our 30 yo daughter. We occasionally use the account to move money to/from one another.
I did find your post about The Millionaire Next Door interesting. I can't say it applies to our situation because our daughter has become successful in her field and financially self supportive. But she's in grad school and we do help when we can in ways that we enjoy. She lives in a house that we own, and she pays rent, but now and then we'll "rebate" her rent back to her because we can afford it and we like to help her. It's no different, in my mind, to giving a check or a bag of canned food to the food bank in town. Why shouldn't we help our daughter when we're willing to make donations to strangers?
I have worried over the years if giving to her sets her up to expect our generosity, or in some other way to be flawed by it. But looking at her, seeing her professionalism, her devotion to her clients, and her social conscience, I really don't see it.
Laurie at March 12, 2014 10:59 AM
Yes, I confess. My name is on both my daughter's and my son's bank account. The car my daughter drives is registered in my name.
My son's name is also on all our accounts.
Neither of my kids are married.
I do everyone's taxes, because I buy the software, and get five free efiles. How financially stupid would it be for me to make everyone buy their own?
My name is also on all my mother's accounts. I pay her bills. She is getting too old to do it herself. I hope my son does the same for me in thirty years.
My mother also has an apartment in our home, that she, my husband, and I own jointly.
Do the math. Nursing home, 90k a year. Us living together, a third of the bills or about $1200 a month.
She doesn't drive anymore so I recently transferred her vehicle into my name, and pay the insurance on it. Much lower rates than remaining in her name.
You would be amazed at how many multi generational families pool their assets, and liabilities for the common good.
The answer is: Most of the ones who can do the math, and have honest and trustworthy children.
The thing that stuns me, is how many people think it is terrible if a family supports each other, but then they vote for the socialists and all their gimme programs to forcibly redistribute the money to complete strangers, with no motive at all for any kind of responsibility or reciprocity.
Isab at March 12, 2014 11:50 AM
"It's no different, in my mind, to giving a check or a bag of canned food to the food bank in town. Why shouldn't we help our daughter when we're willing to make donations to strangers?"
In my family, we give gifts to children's and youth charities for Christmas instead of each other because we don't need anything. It's not necessarily a better way of doing things, that's just the way we look at it.
As for the expense of a trust, my aunt and uncle set one up for their daughters to inherit their house because of the taxes in California. IIRC, it cost them about $1,000.
I suspect LW has a concern that her BF can't stand on his own two feet, good job or not. I work at a CPA firm and some of our high-income clients can't make ends meet. The way to show you can do something is to do it, and BF hasn't shown he can pay his own way. Does BF run up credit card bills he couldn't pay without parental help? Who knows?
Maybe LW could suggest an experiment: for six months, all parental gifts will go to an account just for that purpose, not to be touched during that time. They can do something special with the money at the end. The parents don't need to know about it, LW will have a sense of independence, and BF and LW can enjoy a splurge.
Lori at March 12, 2014 12:12 PM
"Maybe LW could suggest an experiment..."
I have an experiment I'd like to suggest for LW. Let this poor guy go, and find someone who meets her exacting standards.
It's not her job to teach him how to stand on his own two feet or instill in him a sense of independence (irony!) or teach him how to cook or have proper grownup hobbies or any of that.
kf at March 12, 2014 1:26 PM
"As for the expense of a trust, my aunt and uncle set one up for their daughters to inherit their house because of the taxes in California. IIRC, it cost them about $1,000."
Yes, a simple trust like that can be cheap, but if you put a lot of assets in one, there are management fees, which is why Lawyers love them.
As a parent you would also, in most cases be denying yourself the use of that money during your lifetime, in order for your kids to inherit.
Medicare/medicaid also has a five year look back, and if you put your assets into one too late, the government can break the trust.
In states that don't have estate taxes, they are generally unnecessary.
In my experience nothing is worse than being stingy with a kid all of their life, and then handing them a big pile of money when you die. I have seen several examples of it being gone in less than a year.
If a trust doles the money out, again, there are the large management fees.
.
"Maybe LW could suggest an experiment: for six months, all parental gifts will go to an account just for that purpose, not to be touched during that time. They can do something special with the money at the end. The parents don't need to know about it, LW will have a sense of independence, and BF and LW can enjoy a splurge.
Posted by: Lori at March 12, 2014 12:12 PM
Ahem... It isn't "their" money. It isn't "her" money. It is "his" money. They aren't married. If she tries to make this her business, it will be a big mistake.
Shorly after we got married, my husband found out that his mother had emptied a savings account that had substantial money in it, all contributed by him.
I said nothing, because it wasn't any of my fucking business.
Isab at March 12, 2014 1:31 PM
Assuming you are not taking food off the parents table, there is nothing wrong with receiving gifts from them. You just do not want your partner to RELY on handouts from Mom and Dad. But you also do not want to deny your partner, or his parents, all the good things that come from selfless giving.
There is nothing wrong with a guy, or girl, receiving money or gifts from their folks, regardless of age. It's a healthy, normal thing. A good thing. As long as they don't depend or rely on it to support themselves.
Not to mention, like it or not, communication often fails, and this is a way that parents can show love to their kids. No, you cannot buy love. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it can often have a deeper meaning to them, than to you.
I am not Tim at March 12, 2014 3:09 PM
There's a big difference in not being able to do stuff on your own and accepting help from those who love you.
I'm still on my parents' family cellphone plan. It's cheaper than each of us having our own plans, and they just pay for it as a Christmas present to me every year. I also have a bank account connected to my dad's. That way he can easily transfer money to me so I can buy plane tickets home (which are usually $500 and up) more often than I can afford.
I get Lori's concerns, too, though because my boyfriend's family is more *interconnected* than I am with my parents, and sometimes that bugs me. But we're not married, so I keep my mouth shut, and even if we were married, I'd probably keep my mouth shut about most stuff unless it affected my life in a major way.
There's no indication in the published letter that the LW's boyfriend is being enabled or stunted by his parents' help.
sofar at March 12, 2014 3:19 PM
How about the reverse scenario? Kids giving parents expensive gifts or money.
A good friend's wife complained bitterly when he gave his Dad 20K to help him pay off his house. It was not a loan. It was a gift. As far as my friend was concerned, it was the least he could do for his dad. He was just happy to be in the position to help his Dad. He still had a nice nest egg for his wifey. It did not change anything about the way they lived, or planned to live in the future. But she was pissed. Spiteful. Hateful.
My first reaction to him was... wow, what a bitch, it's your Dad, what the hell is her problem?
I did not say that to him, or to anybody, but it's exactly what I was thinking in my head.
Anyway, they have not been the same couple since it happened and he says they are still trying to get past it. I think it's a bit ridiculous.
I am not Tim at March 12, 2014 3:33 PM
my mom gives me money sometimes. i can afford to pay all my own bills, but my mom likes to give me money. she likes to pay for my clothes when we go shopping together and she likes to give me gas money when i meet her for lunch. for awhile i tried to get her to stop and understand that i could afford to pay for my own stuff - but i realized it made her feel good to do this, and who am i to take that away from her? is it really a big deal that my mom pays for my clothing? when i thought it was about me being self-sufficient, it was. but when i realized it was about my mom feeling needed, that was so much more important than whether or not i paid for my own sweater.
me at March 12, 2014 10:14 PM
To put money in his account, all the parents need is the account number. And if that's all they have, that's all they can do; they can't get any information about account activity. I know this because we used to put money in our son's account when he was living apart from us but not yet financially independent. Now he has our account number and uses it to put money in to pay for the insurance on the car I'm letting him use.
Rex Little at March 13, 2014 12:08 AM
There is nothing wrong with a guy, or girl, receiving money or gifts from their folks, regardless of age. It's a healthy, normal thing. A good thing. As long as they don't depend or rely on it to support themselves.
This is a wonderful way to explain it. I can almost see where LW is coming from.
My parents are not well off, and my mother and (ex)stepfather in particular are vile nasty creatures, the sort who never give gifts, but expect something in return for anything they do give.
My dad is generous when he can be, but that isn't very often.
My husbands parents are well off, and do similar things to LWs BF, i.e. occasionally depositing money into his account, random large gifts, etc.
Because of my experience with my family, it did, and sometimes still does, make me uncomfortable to have hubbys parents help out. However, like LWs boyfriend, he has a good work ethic, a steady job, pays his own bills, and doesn't rely on his parents.
I have learned to be grateful, which is what LW should do, especially if she intends to continue this relationship, and wants to get married. If she can't, she needs to end it for both of their sake.
Jazzhands at March 13, 2014 10:55 AM
"Ahem... It isn't "their" money. It isn't "her" money. It is "his" money. They aren't married. If she tries to make this her business, it will be a big mistake."
Fair enough. This is exactly the way I've felt about my parents' money since I moved out at 18. They earned it, and I wasn't a kid anymore. They helped me out a few times when I was a young adult, but I always paid my own bills, bought my own house and a car. Never thought there was anything remarkable about that. I never thought my parents were stingy, either, but that people grew up, moved out, and made their own way.
I now manage my parents' money. If they'd been giving me a few thousand dollars a year since I turned 18, they'd probably have to move in with me now, a situation none of us would like.
Lori at March 13, 2014 11:49 AM
"Because of my experience with my family, it did, and sometimes still does, make me uncomfortable to have hubbys parents help out. "
Jazz, that's a good perspective. There are people who will give but then always expect something in return: "I did something for you, now you owe me". That doesn't sound like the aituation here. I don't think it's about the money for the LW; it's about the fact that there is an aspect of his life that she doesn't have a way to control. Based on her comments about his cooking and video games, she wants very much to "de-bachelorize" him and turn him into the kind of prim and proper husband she thinks will make her look good to her friends. That never ends well.
(Somewhat in the LW's defense, in her relationship with her ex, who was in fact a spoiled child, she was the one who had to do everything. However, it sounds like she got too comfortable with being the person who was "in charge" in the relationship, and now she can't break out of that.)
Cousin Dave at March 13, 2014 12:39 PM
i think it's weird/telling that so many of you are so quick to defend LW's partner and/or parents. i can understand much of what has been said; yet, all this "omg, she must be a controlling bitch if she has opinions about this" commentary tells me that maybe some people have no idea what it's like to be less than privileged. yes, maybe LW does come from less money than her guy. that doesn't mean she's bad for her concerns.
Rachel Flax at March 13, 2014 8:17 PM
"yes, maybe LW does come from less money than her guy. that doesn't mean she's bad for her concerns."
That doesn't explain her being all hyper about his video games and bachelor cooking skills.
Cousin Dave at March 14, 2014 6:56 AM
"commentary tells me that maybe some people have no idea what it's like to be less than privileged." Grew up outwardly poor* in queens, NY so yes I know damn well how it feels. She's still a controlling bitch. If they were paying his way I might see her point but clearly they aren't. All this enables him to do is buy a few more toys than he normally would.Getting the PS4 or xbox one a few months earlier, Getting a new game on release date as opposed to used months later. PSN to store saves. It sounds like she begrudges him this because she doesn't have the spare cash for shoes and accessorizes.
She also spent SIX years with a self absorbed douche. Six! That speaks volumes about her and none of it good.
"my aunt and uncle set one up for their daughters to inherit their house" So a few hundred bucks a month is spoiling the child but a home mortgage free is cool? The average mortgage payment in the US is $1061 (Realtors dot org) and the most common mortgage length is 30 years or 380K.Plus California ranks #8 in house prices, so the number is much much higher. That's way more than most parents give their kids over a life time INCLUDING a 4 year college degree, which due to sky rocketing prices will soon change.
"That doesn't explain her being all hyper about his video games and bachelor cooking skills." As a former game junkie I can see it if he's glued to the system ever hour he's not working, or blowing her off to go on a raid (WOW was never my cup of tea). The cooking might just be a health thing. Shitty food ages you fast, yes again personal experience. It might also be that she wants the right mix of Tony Stark and Anthony Bordain. Again back to the controlling haradin.
*Parents were saving for a house out of the NY DMZ so we looked poor and had very little money on hand. The locals all had Nikes and new starter jackets. :(
Vlad at March 14, 2014 8:12 AM
"yes, maybe LW does come from less money than her guy. that doesn't mean she's bad for her concerns."
Coming from less money doesn't necessarily make her "good", either.
kf at March 14, 2014 11:30 AM
I now manage my parents' money. If they'd been giving me a few thousand dollars a year since I turned 18, they'd probably have to move in with me now, a situation none of us would like.
Posted by: Lori at March 13, 2014 11:49 AM
I'm glad that they had sense enough to realize they couldn't afford it.
My parents could.
What is your point exactly?
Isab at March 14, 2014 2:33 PM
Somebody said -- "have proper grownup hobbies".
---------
It's been proven and well documented that playing computer games keeps the mind sharp and improves reflexes and hand-eye coordination. You might not consider it a "proper" adult hobby but who are you to say what's proper? Unless the guy is playing all the time and it's interfering with other more important aspects of life, you shouldn't consider gaming a fault or flaw. Instead, you should try playing some games WITH your man. You might have fun. It might even be a turn-on that leads to... other games. :)
I am not Tim at March 14, 2014 6:15 PM
playing computer games keeps the mind sharp and improves reflexes and hand-eye coordination.
Depends on the games. Turn-based strategy games like I play might (hopefully) keep the mind sharp, but they don't do squat for reflexes or coordination.
Rex Little at March 15, 2014 12:40 AM
The LW seems to be confused about a few things.
Being an independent adult does not necessarily imply that you are going it alone without any support structure or safety net in place.
It can mean that... but it doesn't have to.
It really shows through when she says things like this:
"I worry that we'll have kids and he'll still be getting assistance from mommy and daddy."
What a terrible fate it would be to have loving and involved grand parents who try to help out for the benefit of their grand children.
Would it really be so terrible if her "well-off" potential in-laws were to help pay for a family trip to disney world for the benefit of the grand children... or to buy them a new computer for the holidays that their parents can't quite afford on their own.
It seems to me she resents the fact that his parents are well-off and want to help make life better/easier for him rather than her being disturbed that he lacks independence.
It sounds like he can make it on his own just fine financially. After all, an unpredictable deposit of ~200 monthly doesn't generally make or break someone. It would simply modify some specific decisions such as how often he chooses to go out to eat, or how often he shops for discretionary items.
The whole point of it being random is that he cannot possibly depend upon it being there at any given moment to pay for a bill.
You can't count on random presents to keep the lights on or to pay your rent.
It sounds like hes got the basics covered all on his own.
His parents are probably just trying to provide a little extra discretionary money for him to enjoy himself (which probably includes the LW... or does she refuse to have him take her out on his parents money?)
The only way she would have a legitimate gripe here was if the gifts came with strings attached. Yet she mentions no such strings or obligations. So why does she care?
That she doesn't have the same kind of support structure in place that he does is no reason to encourage him burn down the safety net that well-off family members often provide to those they love.
Artemis at March 15, 2014 11:39 AM
Valid point Rex. Valid point.
I am not Tim at March 15, 2014 1:49 PM
I can kind of relate to the LW on the money thing. My parents are pretty broke. They like to give me small gifts when they visit, like a shirt my mom picked out or something. But they have not been in a position to substantially help me out financially since college. No problem. After college (on their dime and a hefty sum of loans for me) I became gainfully employed and paid my own way. I was never rolling in it, but I made just enough to make ends meet and lived extremely modestly. During that time, I dated a guy for almost three years who was a total loser. No ambition at all. A very kind person, but he just couldn't manage to put one foot in front of the other. A lot of this I blamed on his parents, who would deposit money into his account and do things for him like drive 90 minutes to switch cars with him and take his car (their car, really) to get inspected. They were kind people who wanted the best for him, but as a result of their indulgence, he never really stood on his own feet. He went months unemployed, dropped out or failed out of every educational venture or training program he entered, and finally got a job he hated that was not enough to pay his expenses. It was pretty sad. Fast forward to my next boyfriend, who also benefits from his mother's largesse. I was a little queasy about it at first in light of my experience with my ex, and my haughty sense of middle class "I can pay my own way without any help therefore I am more responsible" righteousness, but he is responsible and a fully fledged adult all on his own, without his mother's help. When budgeting, he does not factor in gifts from his mother, and there are no strings attached. She is flush enough and generous enough that giving to her children is something she is able and happy to do. Fast forward 6 years. Now we are married and have a child together. My mother-in-law's generosity now extends to me and our little one. I act graciously, thank her sincerely, and we move about our lives. As someone who spent years on my own two feet, living hand-to-mouth, it can feel a little strange to accept, but I manage to get over it becuse she is doing it becuse it makes her happy, and having more money than I was planning on is nice. So please don't try to stop this kind arrangement. You will only piss off your potential future in-laws if your bf agrees to reverse "cut them off." Try to enjoy it and feel grateful when he picks up the tab instead of snotty, like "he didn't even earn that." Just let it go. If his parents died, he would likely get a lot more money all at once. Would you expect him to give it away? Amy is right, they just want their son benefitting from his inheritance while they are still alive.
The way you talk about changing him is pretty immature. A man is not a puppy to house break, or a project to "make headway" on. If you have in your head a laundry list of unsavory features of your BF that you are going to work on, you are being unfair to the person you are with. If every time you say "I love you," a little voice in your heart says "...the way you are in my imagination once I perfect you," then you either need to drop your expectations, or break up. I'm guessing this is why you stayed with a loser for six years. You were thinking he was so close to the right guy, if only he were different. Love the man you are actually with, or let him go find someone who will.
Loowhoo at March 27, 2014 6:04 AM
@"I get where you're coming from. When I was in my late teens, I was hot to be completely independent from my parents. Now that I'm in my late 40s, I wish my parents would get high on LSD and start paying my bills."
Wow, I've had a similar progression, for nearly 40 years I wouldn't accept a cent from anyone ... approaching 40, and now married with a child, I really realize how stupid this is. I've started accepting the odd small 'handout' from my dad, especially when we're in slightly tight spots; not only can he afford it, I figure, after all the abusive crap he put me through in childhood, it's the least he can do. And from a practical perspective, you know what, I want the best for my child, so I swallowed my stupid pride, it means we have some better home security, we've had a few visits to them we couldn't otherwise afford so my daughter can actually get to meet her terminally ill grandmother a few times before she dies, and we've had slightly less stress.
I can't believe how childish this LW is. Grow up. You have the offer of slightly better quality of life, a bit less stress, better chance of success for your children someday or better chance of health (saving the extra $200/mo might be the difference between your child affording some critical surgery or getting into a better university), you have the chance, you take it. Never become a leech but accept the little bits of help you get in this life, life is hard enough without making it unnecessarily hard.
And PS, stop trying to control him so much.
Lobster at April 22, 2014 9:21 AM
@"He has made headway on small issues I've brought up, like cooking more than bachelor-type foods and playing video games less"
And he puts up with you treating him as a 'project'? I wonder for how long.
Lobster at April 22, 2014 9:27 AM
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