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King Cody And Princess Dakota And Their Peasants, Uh, Parents
The latest children-ruling-parents insanity is over who sleeps in the parents' bed, and the need to hire high-priced "sleep consultants" to figure it out. Seriously. Even the "celebrities" are doing it...and how desperate do they have be for a good night's sleep to whore for these sleep consultants by (I'm guessing, but I'm probably right) agreeing to be mentioned in the article?

Come on...for the second time in about a week, I have to ask: Is it really too much to ask parents to parent? It's really not that difficult. Here's how it works in this case: You don't let the kids engage in what's called "co-sleeping," meaning they get in mommy and daddy's bed every night, meaning mommy and daddy get even less sex than they were getting already, being married and parents and, the little darlings learn that all they have to do is scream, yell, or whine and their every need will be met.

The alternative? Two letters. N-O. Use them repeatedly until the little monster you've created gets the message. By the way, you might consider sending them to military school or Outward Bound to undo all the damage you've likely done by raising them to think their every want and need will be immediately indulged.

From a New York Times article by Penelope Green:

More than a decade after the infant sleep expert Dr. Richard Ferber horrified parents by warning against co-sleeping and advocating a cry-it-out approach, and four years after the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development published a survey in which 12 percent of respondents reported sleeping with their babies anyway, never mind Ferber, it would seem that those babies have grown into children, and those children are not at all tempted by the princess and airplane beds their parents have so hopefully prepared for them. Child-sleep consultants say their practices are swelling, and that they are treating the parents of “ambulatory” children just as much as the parents of infants.

Jill Spivack and Jennifer Waldburger, the child-sleep gurus behind Sleepy Planet in Los Angeles, are seeing about 50 clients a month, including Ben Stiller, Greg Kinnear and other Hollywood notables, and have a two-week waiting list. As a result, they are expanding their staff of four sleep specialists to six, they said. Meanwhile, their first book, “The Sleepeasy Solution: The Exhausted Parent’s Guide to Getting Your Child to Sleep — From Birth to Age 5” (HCI), will be out next month, joining a veritable canon of child-sleep self-help books. “Since we started in 1999,” said Ms. Spivack, who charges $395 for a two-hour sleep session, “we have seen thousands of families.”

Jean Kunhardt, a therapist and a director of Soho Parenting in Manhattan, a 19-year-old counseling service, said she and her partner, Lisa Spiegel, never intended to be sleep specialists. “But that is what we’ve become known for,” she said. “The vast majority of new people coming to us are coming for sleep.” (Ms. Kunhardt has some serious child-sleep credentials: she is a granddaughter of Dorothy Kunhardt, the author of “Pat the Bunny,” the bedtime story so many were reared on.)

“Everyone I know has been to some sort of sleep center,” said Liz Lange, the maternity wear designer, who “went the sleep consultant route” for help with her son Gus’s peripatetic nighttime ways. “It seems like most of my friends have seen Jean. With Gus, we tried the reward system, the stickers and the charts and the trip to the toy store. At Soho Parenting, they gave us a whole routine, with me in the chair moving farther away from the bed. At one point, putting him to bed was consuming our entire night. Now we have my son out of our bed, and my daughter, who has always been a brilliant sleeper, has taken his place.”

Hint, Liz, it doesn't take stickers or charts or trips to the toy store. You just have care enough about your children to be a bitch. To not be liked. To behave like a grownup instead of a needy premenopausal kid who'll do anything to just be liked.

And, hey, by the way, a big pre-fuck you -- from all of us to you, in case we happen to encounter the extraordinary asshole you're surely raising by acting like your kid's friend instead of his mother.

Posted by aalkon at March 4, 2007 11:57 AM


Our son has never slept in our bed for more than a few minutes. Maybe two times a year he'll have a bad dream in the night and come and get in our bed, but always wants to go back to his own after a short period. I was warned by other parents "if you let your baby sleep in bed with you, you'll never get them out." There's a whole "co-sleeping" movement out there where people advocate a single family bed; the first thought in my head was "how do these people ever have sex???"

Posted by: deja pseu at March 4, 2007 6:03 AM

Well, Deja, I'm sure that the "co sleeping" advocates just strip down and do the deed right there in front of their kids. After all, isn't it about being a closer family?? Why not just take it to the next level and teach them about where babies come from in the first place?? That's what they must have done back in the old days of one room cabins...

There is nothing natural or beneficial, as far as I can tell, to have your married love life put on indefinite hiatus because your kids are sleeping with you. It's not teaching them anything except that their parents don't care about their marriage.

Posted by: Gretchen at March 4, 2007 7:06 AM

Parents who have a healthy sex life are contributing to having a healthy marriage.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at March 4, 2007 7:29 AM

My youngest daughter slept in our bed until she was about three years old, then happily became a "big kid" like her siblings and went to her own. She still slept with us often, but gradually it tapered off. We had a spare room elsewhere in the house for our "dates." She is now a happy, mature, well-adjusted, secure teenager - I daresay moreso than her siblings. None of my children was coddled or indulged like so many children today are, and it's because we didn't replace real love and comfort with toys, uber-scheduled activities or overindulgence. It's not about the bed or the crib, those things are just details. It's about keeping your kids secure and providing a safe home while teaching them resilience, self-respect and self-reliance.

The more parenting books you read, the more confused and angst-ridden you get. Throw them out and just enjoy your children, they don't stay little very long.

Posted by: spinmistress at March 4, 2007 7:46 AM

When my kids were little and had a bad dream, I came to their room. They were not allowed in our bed to sleep. Now that they are adults, we are "friendly" but not "friends". I'm still the mom. I just hate hearing, "oh, Hunter is not just my 8 year old son.. he's my BEST FRIEND!". So where's Hunter's PARENT? Morons....

Posted by: GirlAtheist at March 4, 2007 7:47 AM

Spinmistress has her head on straight, I think. Best not to take advice on rearing children from someone without children. I find myself adapting to situations every day, and they are all much different than when I was growing up. More than half of what I knew about raising kids before I adopted one has gone out the window.

Posted by: eric at March 4, 2007 8:11 AM

I love hearing "before I adopted one."

Pregnancy sounds really awful, and if there are already kids on the shelf in need of parents, why not pick one up?

Posted by: Amy Alkon at March 4, 2007 8:45 AM

I can see the keeping the kid in the bed thing for awhile when they are younger (but, NOT every night). I am sorry, but the communal bed thing is just a little bloody weird. We are in the 21st century. There is no longer a need due to central-heating and increased income levels for whole families to sleep in the same bed. Plain and simple, children are children and parents are adults. There is a time and a place for being "buddies", but it is not in bed. Take your kid out and throw a ball around, bake some cookies, etc.

On the kids on a shelf thing: My wife and I were watching that thing last night about Oprah's new school in Africa. We are definitely not those mushy Oprah-lovers out there, but we were rather impressed (despite the over the top emotional production) with what she has done with those kids. The greatest part is that she didn't just drop a billion bucks on the UN (Ted Turner, if I recall). She actually created an environment for those kids to think beyond the limited confines of their shabby villages/townships to their eventual place in the world and is providing these kids with a vehicle to own their future. We were laughing at what a difference there is. Oprah who does not have children, starts this great institution to enable these children to excel in life, compared to Madonna (who is fading fast in the relevancy area), who flies to Africa in her private jet and snags a kid as if it is a pocket dog. When is Paris Hilton going to do that?

Posted by: André-Tascha at March 4, 2007 9:38 AM

Amy, would love to know if you are familiar with the somewhat controversial, conservative parenting columnist John Rosemond.

While you and Rosemond couldn't be further apart in terms of politics or religion (he's very much an evangelistic, pro-Bush rightwinger--and it doesn't help that he's a doppelganger for L. Ron Hubbard if you look at his website pic), it appears you both share the same beliefs and recommend the same approaches to rearing children. One of his central ideas is that when a couple brings kids into their family, the couple should remain the central concern and focus of the family--NOT the kids, no matter how needy/clingy they may be or become. Needless to say, this idea is unsettling to many, myself included. He advocates spanking (albeit to a very limited degree), absolutely NO (or extremely curtailed) TV viewing for kids, and like you can also be very rough on parents who allow their darlings to behave like lil' terrorists in public.

Rosemond's been carried in the Long Beach Press-Telegram for years, among other papers. I would read his column and be enraged when I was a teenager; now I read it and nod thinking, "how true". Anyway, was wondering if you were familiar with him.

Posted by: qdpsteve at March 4, 2007 9:56 AM

I think a lot of parents actually like having the kids sleep with them, because it's emotionally satisfying. The kids will cuddle with you long after your spouse has lost interest. I guess some parents think that the emotional payoff is worth the risk of getting pissed on by their adorable little bedwetter.

Posted by: Lena at March 4, 2007 9:57 AM

I love hearing "before I adopted one."

Pregnancy sounds really awful, and if there are already kids on the shelf in need of parents, why not pick one up?

My sister and her husband did that, then got pregnant around pickup time. Couldn't happen to better "advisors" as she could come up with the stupidest parenting advice that one could imagine. They were both over 40 before their adoption was approved. I told her to make note in a diary of all of those naps she *used* to take.

For a while when I was living in a small apartment and my sone was visiting, about 9 years old I think, we shared my big bed, but only until I could get a room fixed up for him.

He just got promoted at work and at last count was accepted to two decent law schools. Waiting on the others to respond to see where he will solidify his ticket to hell :)

Posted by: Guy Montag at March 4, 2007 10:01 AM

Heard of Rosemond, haven't read him. But, this stuff isn't rocket science. It's just ordinary parenting -- or what used to pass for it, unless I'm crazy or not remembering properly. I'm 42, and when I was growing up, parents were authority figures. The idea that I'd "negotiate" with my mom after she said no? Wild.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at March 4, 2007 10:25 AM

Amy, I couldn't agree more. I'm in my mid 30s, and when I was a kid, there was no doubt in my mind that my parents were the boss. I couldn't have dreamed of throwing a tantrum after hearing "no." I knew doing so would mean "no is still no, and now you're in trouble for throwing a tantrum." It makes me sick as I see my friends who have kids negotiating with their kids, trying to persuade them to behave, offering up more toys and candy if only they will obey. It scares me about how the world is going to turn out when these kids "grow up."

Posted by: Jaylyn at March 4, 2007 12:23 PM

Jaylyn/Amy: d'accord!

Posted by: André-Tascha at March 4, 2007 1:26 PM

Lena - They usually crawl in with you AFTER they wet their own bed. lol

Lots of opinions here from barren spinsters, lol. All things are possible for the man who doesn't have to do them.

Posted by: Casca at March 5, 2007 6:55 AM

People have children by accident. I'm barren by choice. That fact will never cause you to lose sleep on a place or have your conversation interrupted in a restaurant.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at March 5, 2007 7:01 AM

Amy - you may be barren by choice, but you ought to be nice to Casca and her children, since they are the ones that are going to have to wipe your ass when you're too old to do it for yourself.

Posted by: brian at March 5, 2007 8:32 AM

Brian, it's just nuts to think Amy should "be nice" to anyone and their children because they'll "have to wipe your ass when you're too old...."

Amy treats other people with respect and dignity, until they prove they don't deserve it. To her credit she does this regardless their age, gender, color, political beliefs, childbearing status, etc. And Amy no doubt has a financial plan in place to provide for her own care in the future.

The real issue here is not beds, or sex, or people's perfectly supportable choices to have or not have children. The real issue is parenting as opposed to pacifying children.

Sometimes co-sleeping makes sense and sometimes it is a disaster. Smart, tough parents can figure out what is best for them and their child at any given time. What the rest of us can do is politely but firmly refuse to accept child terrorists on our streets. And reward, by compliments and smiles, the parents whose children are a credit to them.

Simple, really, although as a mother of six I understand how far from easy it is!

Posted by: askmom at March 5, 2007 11:00 AM

My wife and I happen to enjoy sleeping with our child. It is indeed very emotionally satisfying. I sleep better with him near me and I enjoy waking up with my little "tick" attached to my side. My wife feels the same, and the only conflict is good natured jealously between us as to who "stole" the tick last night. I feel that it makes up for the eight hours a day I have to be away from him while I am at work. And we have worked out a compromise: he goes to sleep in his own bed and we scoop up his sleeping bundle and bring him to bed a few hours later. Our son is a very happy, secure, and well-adjusted kid, not to mention quite obedient for a three-year-old. No monsters here.

I have been made well aware by many people the horrible dangers of co-sleeping. But if we have some problems getting him to sleep on his own in a few years, big deal. They won't outweigh the many wonderful moments we've already experienced with him. Frankly, I tend to look askance at people who expressly forbid allowing their kids in bed. It occurs to me that if you don't want your kids around, maybe you shouldn't have kids. But everyone has their limits and degrees.

Posted by: JZ at March 5, 2007 12:36 PM

I doubt the spoiled little brats will be any less selfish when they grow up, so don't bet on them wiping anyone's ass, not even their own. Which means they are totally useless to even us barren spinsters.

They will have a overwhelming sense of entitlement which they will not be talked out of, no matter what life throws at them. I've dated guys that were raised like little princes by their doting mommies and they truly think the world revolves around them. They think everyone exists to serve them, especially women, which I found very funny!

Posted by: Chris at March 5, 2007 12:37 PM

Amy - you may be barren by choice, but you ought to be nice to Casca and her children, since they are the ones that are going to have to wipe your ass when you're too old to do it for yourself.

Ah, the first appearance of the "who will wipe your ass?" comment. It's like the first robin of spring in these arguments, or Whitney Houston cranking up the millionth chorus of "I believe the children are the future...."

The future is fine. But why not live in the now?

Rather than focusing on my fundament 40 years down the line, may I suggest that Casca and her children concentrate on being nice to US, right now, instead? After all, ass-wiping is far down the road, and right now us bitter barren folk are the ones who are paying for family services we don't use.

Hell, with the "they'll toilet-train when they're ready!" situation these days, and the diaper industry responding with leak-proof pillows in ever-increasing sizes, Cody and Dakota are going off to school not even equipped to wipe their own asses, much less mine.

Posted by: GB at March 5, 2007 12:59 PM

You know, in anthropology, we learn that in primitive hunter-gatherer societies, whole families sleep together in small, one-room shelters. Modern surveys also show that most small children like to sleep with their parents.

Since that's our primitive instinct, there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it, we just have to accept that's the way our brains are wired--for children to sleep with their parents.

Posted by: beansworth at March 5, 2007 3:02 PM

GB - because living in the now is what allows us to never think that 9/11 could happen. Living in the now is what allows Japan to be in a demographic decline that they will never recover from.

Living in the now is a convenient way to say "thinking about the future is hard".

Posted by: brian at March 5, 2007 3:04 PM

we just have to accept that's the way our brains are wired--for children to sleep with their parents.

Toddlers' brains are also hardwired to grab the other kid's toy and hit him over the head with it when he tries to take it back, but we train them not to do that. Sorry, but my brain is actually wired to get some sleep (and some sex on occasion), neither of which happen with the munchkin in the bed.

Posted by: deja pseu at March 5, 2007 4:10 PM

I whole-heartedly agree with Amy about parents not parenting - it drives me crazy, and sadly seems to be the rule these days, not the exception.

But I don't agree that co-sleeping necessarily falls into the category of over-indulgence or bad parenting. It works for some people, and it doesn't work for others, and it doesn't have to doom the parents' sex life (having small children tends to do that all on its own, no matter where they sleep). To me, it's like breast-feeding or cloth diapers - I have strong feelings on these subjects, and extremely good reasons for my views, but I understand and acknowledge that my stances may not work for everyone.

I also think that parents can slip into bad habits without meaning to - like letting a kid who has a bad dream come into your bed (which is MUCH easier than waking up enough to settle them in their own room - and sometimes even the best parents take the path of least resistance at 3 a.m.!), and then finding the pattern repeating itself and becoming a problem.

If that happens, you might need some advice to correct the situation effectively and efficiently - but a sleep consultant?? What ever happened to asking your pediatrician, or a friend who has older kids? (Of course, this probably the crowd that hires a child-proofing consultant rather than just buying some electrical outlet covers and toilet seat locks and putting breakables and poisons out of reach.)

Posted by: Melissa at March 5, 2007 4:59 PM

Hmmmm. I guess we were deprived cuz we didn't have the advantage of hiring a 'sleep counselor'.

After a certain very young age, if they weren't sick, they never saw our bed. When my middle boy objected to that, he wound up sleeping at the foot of our closed door for a while. I'd trip over him in the morning. Eventually he got the message.

I have no clue how we got two engineers and an historian out of that circus. Must have been luck.

Posted by: trainer at March 5, 2007 11:03 PM

Ah, the outpatients are out in force. I'm neither a woman, nor a defender of any kind of boorishness, but some of it is just part of life. Selfishness is one of the dangers of life. Children make us understand who we are. How one does it without watching the mistakes of mini-me, I do not know. Good luck to those of you on that track. There will certainly be an undocumented alien available to wipe your tender parts during your last days. I plan to drop in harness, and spare all the chore.

Posted by: Casca at March 5, 2007 11:07 PM

I think one can manage to have self-knowledge without wiping baby ass.

I have six friends who are kids, all of them smart and well-raised. Best of all, I get to have fun with them occasionally, then I leave and somebody else does the parenting and pays for their college education.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at March 5, 2007 11:14 PM

When I was a kid, my mom was always a hardass about never letting me sleep in her bed.

Unfortunately, almost every other woman since then has been exactly the same way.

Posted by: LYT at March 6, 2007 2:33 AM


Posted by: Amy Alkon at March 6, 2007 4:17 AM

Raising a child is more than wiping baby ass, but the reductio absurdum seems to be the only tool you own. So, I'll see your baby ass wiping, and raise you a, "Life without raising children is unfulfilled." It is where we truly learn to love. One may cast off wives, lovers, business partners and friends, but a child remains a part of oneself until you die, and without children of your own, you'll never know this.

Posted by: Casca at March 6, 2007 7:18 AM

Am I the only one who thinks it CREEPY to have some little kid grasping you while you're sleeping? And do you have "big people" conversation in bed with a little tyke? And what is everyone wearing, muumuus? Cuz I'm usually wearing significantly less than would be appropriate for a child. Plus, even my husband and I don't even share blankets because we both toss and turn so much. Then again, maybe I just don't get it because I don't even want a kid to begin with. People keep telling me I'll change my mind, and I just nod, because it just seems easier.

Posted by: Stacy at March 6, 2007 10:23 AM

"Life without raising children is unfulfilled." It is where we truly learn to love.

This is especially cute on a day when TWO different sets of "parents" are on trial for making their toddlers smoke pot, a dad loaded his 8-year-old into a private plane and crashed it to "get back at his ex-wife," and a dad stabbed his wife repeatedly before handing the knife to his 2-year-old and commanded "Now you stab Mommy."

Yes, indeed, parenthood automatically makes you a better, more selfless person.

Posted by: GB at March 6, 2007 12:41 PM

Shh, GB, you'll wake Casca out of his/her little dreamy dream land, where unicorns frolic and Peter Pan and Tinkerbell live.

Like Amy always says, any idiot can get pregnant, and many do.

But Casca is right about the illegal alien/legal immigrant who will be the one wiping your ancient ass. That's what I've seen on my very few visits to nursing homes.

I guess it's only with respect to ** the children ** where he/she has the rose colored glasses on-which is the whole point of this discussion thread.

Posted by: Chris at March 6, 2007 3:05 PM

I'm just sitting back watching western civilization birth-control itself out of existence.

Teach your children (if you have any) Arabic. They'll need it when the Muslims outnumber us Kuffir sometime 50 years from now.

Posted by: brian at March 6, 2007 4:53 PM

Note, I'm saying this as someone who hates children, and hates the fact that all the wrong people are reproducing.

But that's the trouble with a liberal post-industrial nation. It all goes straight to hell when the smart people stop mating because they've made it too difficult to do on account of trying to protect the offspring of stupids.

Posted by: brian at March 6, 2007 4:55 PM

My daughter, 5, is not normally allowed to sleep in our bed. Note "normally" - as we are the parents, we can, and sometimes do, allow her to sleep in the Big Bed, and I will usually let her sleep with me when her dad is out of town. One of her favorite rewards is watching TV in our bed at night, if she's been good or she's sick or something.

So the "no baby bear in mom and dad's bed" is a general, not a rigid, rule in our house (and we never slept with her when she was an infact). She sleeps in her own bed and she does not throw fits at bedtime. We are the parents - if we say yes, it's yes and if we say no, it's no, and she knows that the more she fights the "no's", the less she stands to gain. But because I'm the parent, and I'm the one in charge, I don't think I have to be particularly consistent about absolutely everything - she understands that a treat is just that, a treat, and not something to be expected whenever you want it.

And she doesn't tell us - we tell her. Why some parents find that so difficult to understand, or practice, just mystifies me.

And I am so sick of the bitching and the snarking and the threatening and the mutual barely concealed envy/insecurity/fear between the procreators and the non-procreators. Who the F cares if a person you've never met, and likely never will, approves or disapproves of your choice to reproduce or not reproduce? Some of my best friends do not want to have kids - they don't give me advice on childrearing, I don't tell them they're missing anything, my daughter has recognized the difference between a Diet Coke and a Bud Light since the age of two and is a cheerful little drinks bunny, we all get along fine.

Posted by: stubby at March 6, 2007 4:59 PM

One may cast off wives, lovers, business partners and friends, but a child remains a part of oneself until you die, and without children of your own, you'll never know this.

Luckily, there's more to me than having some biological attachment. If this is a big deal for you, goody. I have great friends, and they're like family to me, some of them. And if friendships fade, so be it. I enjoy them while I have them. Casting things off and having people and animals die on you is part of life. Why be so upset by it? It just IS.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at March 6, 2007 5:30 PM

Actually, it is true that a child remains a part of you forever, and I think that's probably a good argument AGAINST having kids. It's emotionally draining and terrifying and a sort of lifelong emotional slavery. Your future happiness will forever be dependent on this child, or these children, outliving you. Having your child die before you do is quite simply the worst thing that can happen to a parent - it is simply unthinkable. I don't care if my kid always likes me, I will not be devastated if she doesn't turn out brilliant or successful or rich, I fully intend to puruse my own interests and live my own life apart from her, and I will not (I hope) enable her if she turns out to be a F-up - but if she dies, I'm toast. Is it worth it? I think it is, but I fully understand that lots of people would not agree.

Posted by: stubby at March 6, 2007 6:08 PM

That's a very good point, Stubby. When people write to me asking if they can do this or that (leave the husband, etc.) it's a totally different story if they have kids. If you do, suck it up, make nice and do whatever's best for them. Guess who comes second after parenthood?

As for those who expect their kids to be ego extensions, it's really creepy. Stubby, you remind me of a friend of mine in NYC, very educated, very smart, Ivy blah blah blah, who told his kid, "Not everybody has to go to college."

Posted by: Amy Alkon at March 6, 2007 6:52 PM

"Try Parenting" Yeah, try it. It's not for sissies or bloggers.

Posted by: Hoot at March 8, 2007 8:21 PM

Well, there's a silly comment. Some of my close friends are both parents and bloggers, and successful at both.

There's Cathy Seipp:

Posted by: Amy Alkon at March 9, 2007 7:08 AM

And Nancy Rommelmann:

Posted by: Amy Alkon at March 9, 2007 7:09 AM

And Kate Coe:

To name just a few.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at March 9, 2007 7:10 AM

I see what you mean. Okay.

Posted by: Hoot at March 9, 2007 8:26 AM

I've known well-behaved kids who slept in their parents' beds and brats who slept alone. Co-sleeping in general creeps *me* out, but there are parents who manage to make it work. That having been said, I am rolling my eyes hard at the use of the sleep consultant. There was no one else they could ask?

And, switching the subject a tad, I tend to see the co-sleeping fad as part of this larger movement that I watch in amazement that basically sentences parents to years without consistent sleep. I'm the first to admit that small babies aren't (typically) going to sleep through the night, but if your two-year-old isn't sleeping through the night consistently, then something is wrong. Sleeping well is not natural behavior for everyone...or even, I'd argue, for most children. I am not, not, NOT going to get into the cry-it-out battle here...I'm just going to say that I do think that there are various methods of sleep training that can be tried, and I think parents are doing a disservice to their children by not giving them the tools they need to be good sleepers. I sometimes wonder how big a role this plays in bad behavior and underparenting. There's a reason that sleep deprivation is a form of torture. To be fair, co-sleeping not infrequently starts out by the exhausted mom of a newborn not wanting to trek to another room every two hours at night to feed the kid...but most of the co-sleeping I've known of involving older kids doesn't involve all parties getting a lot of restful sleep.

Posted by: marion at March 11, 2007 2:10 PM

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