Can You See Me Now?
We've moved to a new host company, and it apparently takes a buttload of time for the DNS (Domain Name Server) propagation to take place. Rich Smith explains:
When any outside source wants to know how to find your website, they first go to the registration database to find out who the DNS authority is for your website. Then they visit your hosting provider's DNS servers to find out what the IP Address is for your domain name, and from there your audience can now view your website.The problem with this whole scheme is that in order to speed up the rate at which their customers can view the internet, each Internet Server Provider caches their DNS records. This means that they make their own copy of the master records, and read from them locally instead of looking them up on the Internet each time someone wants view a website. This actually speeds up web surfing quite a bit, by (1) speeding up the return time it takes for a web browser to request a domain lookup and get an answer, and (2) actually reducing the amount of traffic on the web therefore giving it the ability to work faster.
The downside to this caching scenario and what makes it take so long for your website to be visible to everyone, is that each company or ISP that caches DNS records only updates them every few days. This is not any kind of standard, and they can set this time anywhere from a few hours to several days. The slow updating of the servers cache is called propagation, since your websites DNS information is now being propagated across all DNS servers on the web. When this is finally complete, everyone can now visit your new website. Being that the cache time is different for all servers, as mentioned above, it can take anywhere from 36 to 72 hours for DNS changes to be totally in effect.
The current result? I can't see my own site on my Time-Warner cable connection, but I can see it on my Verizon mobile broadband. If you're getting through, please leave a comment here.
Also, some comments have disappeared (from the L. Ron entry from and a couple others). Very sorry about this. I think I can retrieve them from the old host company, but Gregg has been working day and night, night and day, for two days, to make this move, so we've been focused just on having the site up. Will try to get those and paste them back into the entries as soon as possible.
Also, if you're getting a weird link or a link that doesn't work, please let me know here. Or e-mail me at adviceamy (at) A O L dot com if, for some reason, you can't leave a comment here. (But, let's hope it doesn't come to that!)
P.S. We moved because of all the problems with people's comments getting kicked to spam. The old server company wouldn't allot the processor time to ameliorate that.
P.P.S. Gregg = my hero. (You have no idea what he's been through these past two days!)
UPDATE: Due to a "permissions error," some comments are not showing up on columns. They are saved in my database...they are not lost...it's just another thing Gregg has to figure out. Sigh!
1st viewing from new server at 135am 6jan07...
A man shows great love for a woman by accepting her computer problems as his own!
Crid at January 6, 2008 1:36 AM
I can see your site!
And I think technology is kind of a love/hate kind of thing. When it works, it works well, and we love it, and it saves us time... but when it doesn't work, we are crippled, reduced to crying and cursing and screaming.
Bad Kitty at January 6, 2008 1:45 AM
PS Vendor: Sprint DSL
Crid at January 6, 2008 1:47 AM
Thanks for letting me know you can see it. It was getting lonely here!
A man shows great love for a woman by accepting her computer problems as his own!
You got that right! We used to joke about how, in the old days, a man would build a woman a homestead, and these days, he builds her a homepage.
And actually, I love technology, and I think it's just extraordinary how easy it is for me to, say, take a picture of the little sleeping doggie in my lap and post that picture to my site with ease within two minutes. In the early days, I was on Dreamweaver and had to write all the html. Movable Type software is a snap.
As for why the move was so rough, I have a huge database, and I think it was kind of like moving a whale on a little red wagon.
Ooh, and I just realized -- I can "trust" you guys as commenters...which means you shouldn't get kicked into my spam folder ever again (from the IP you're posting from). If you post from another IP, I'll have to trust you from there, too. Probably TMI, but there you have it!
Amy Alkon at January 6, 2008 1:51 AM
Thanks, Crid, and you are officially the first "trusted commenter" on my blog. Not sure if this means you can post 46 links in one comment, but let's hope!
Amy Alkon at January 6, 2008 1:52 AM
I remember making webpages entirely in notepad. That was rough.
And Amy, I love technology too, but I'd never ever heard my sister swear before she got a computer. When she's using that thing sometimes it sounds like her long lost drunken sailor twin kidnapped her and took her place.
Bad Kitty at January 6, 2008 1:59 AM
As a 'trusted commenter'ââ??¢, let me take this opportunity to let you know that you too can enjoy tremendous discounts on V!@gR@! Also I can help you cut your your m0rtg@ge in half! Also, teenage sex sluts in college dorm rooms want your body! Send email for details!
BK's right about coding html... life's too short. My favorites are in a version of this page, which ubergeek Dvorak offered as a template for people who wanna publish their usual treats for access anywhere. It's still kind of a pain. But I hate how it's become the convention of the internet to post blogs in narrow little strips in the center of a page. If you paid good money for and LCD, you oughta be able to use it all. With aging eyes I have to bang up the font size to where each sentence on a blog like this is only forty characters wide or something, which is ridiculous.... The software can wordwrap nicely, if only these designers would let it. (I hate Apple for 10,000 little things like this.)
Crid at January 6, 2008 2:14 AM
It's now working for me again. I'm using some crap-ass Ukrainian ISP, but I manually set my DNS server to one at GTE because the ISP's doesn't find half the addresses I use.
Shawn at January 6, 2008 2:22 AM
Greg has clearly become the Exalted Exemplar of Introverted Techies With Hot Love Interests!
He's the one who should be touring high schools! Protogeeks already know the jocks / cheerleaders are going to be selling them cars / bras in the future, but the news that the mating ranking system is going be reshuffled in a direction favorable to smart interesting people needs to get out more.
--
phunctor
phunctor at January 6, 2008 5:34 AM
"I see you , Kirk. Can you see me?"
And I know precisely what Gregg's going through - I've done it before, and I have to do it again next month.
Good work, Gregg.
brian at January 6, 2008 6:28 AM
I can see you on my newly-acquired Verizon wireless (cool Christmas gift from my step-father).
Dennis at January 6, 2008 6:44 AM
One thing I noticed, that you may already know about - the "Previous" and "Next" links at the top of individual articles don't have their little arrows any longer. They've been replaced with a little question mark icon.
brian at January 6, 2008 6:45 AM
See you loud and clear, using Pacbell DSL.
deja pseu at January 6, 2008 7:16 AM
Woohoo! Working now from my Sprint Cellphone -- don't bother trusting me, first I'm probably not trustworthy, but really every time I dial in through my cellphone Sprint gives me a different IP address.
For future reference, my understanding is that Rich Smith's explanation is not completely accurate.
Every DNS record has a Time To Live or TTL. When a computer makes a DNS query for advicegoddess.com, it is handed the IP address along with the TTL. Until the TTL expires, the information can be cached, but it has to be reloaded if the TTL has expired.
Typical TTLs are 24 hours, but some websites that operate out of dial-up accounts actually will have TTLS as low as a few minutes. The shorter the TTL, the more queries the DNS server will have to answer, so there is a performance and cost involved.
If the TTL is something like 24 hours, than 24 hours PRIOR to switching IP addresses, it's a good and reasonable practice to change the TTL to something like 10 minutes or so, and then to wait until the 24 hour period has expired and then to switch IP addresses.
If that is done, than DNS servers that are operating correctly should pick up your new address within 10 minutes of your chance.
If you notify your web hosting service that you are changing IPs, I would think that any company of any competence should be happy to change your DNS TTL for you 24 or more hours before you switch.
jerry at January 6, 2008 8:30 AM
Testing, in the hope that this server actually pays attention to the 'Remember Me?' option. This has always been one of two blogs that forgets me every time....
Cheers, Stu
Stu "El Ingl�©s" Harris at January 6, 2008 9:06 AM
Amy, I get you loud and clear over here in Germany. (I even could read your blog last night, only the comments were disabled)
@Gregg: I know what you've been going through. Congratulations!
Rainer
P.S.: Today, I showed love for my woman by accepting her fathers' computer problems as my own. Hope that counts, too...
P.P.S., off topic: Where is Lena? I just noticed that I haven't read her witty comments for some time.
Rainer at January 6, 2008 9:10 AM
You're coming through here at the edge of a Wisconsin soybean field. The new version loads quicker on dial-up than the old one did. It may go slower, though, when you put up pics. I never bother trying to download videos, but that's just a problem on my end, not yours.
Axman at January 6, 2008 10:35 AM
Thanks so much, everybody. Gregg's trying to solve a bunch of the remaining problems, visible and not visible, from the weird question mark characters on. And Stu, I hate that, too -- my own site sometimes doesn't recognize me. Let's hope that changes!
Those little talking human icons are "trusted commenter" thingies. If you're on a floating IP, it may not stick to you. I'm trying to "trust" people as soon as possible...just going through comments one by one as I have time. It's random...so don't be offended if you aren't "trusted" yet!
Amy Alkon at January 6, 2008 11:15 AM
> Every DNS record has a Time
> To Live
Jerry- Thanks for taking the time to write that. It sometimes feels like any computer problem in the world can be fixed as long as you care enough to learn how, and most of us have other things we'd like to be doing with our time.
I was mistaken earlier, my DSL is Verizon, it's the cell phone that's Sprint. (They're all hateful anyway)
Also, regarding "buttloads of time," isn't buttload a great word? It's vulgar and expressive and what's not to like? Everyone has an intimate understanding of how much a buttload is, because it always feels like a lot.
Guy - "How much did you lose on that real estate deal?"
Friend - "A buttload!"
Guy - "Aw shit, dude...."
Crid at January 6, 2008 11:44 AM
I love it. I try not to use it too often. The same goes with "hating on."
FYI, I still can't access my advicegoddess.com/goddessblog.html on Camino (I get this -- "Unable to read database or username"), but it works fine on Safari. Weird. (Time-Warner.)
Amy Alkon at January 6, 2008 12:07 PM
Camino probably caches IP addresses. Tell it to forget everything it knows (history, cookies) and see what happens.
brian at January 6, 2008 12:08 PM
Sigh...then I'll lose my saved bugmenot.com passwords to Washington Post and all the other idiots who think they're data hosing us in exchange for access.
Amy Alkon at January 6, 2008 12:16 PM
You could always just wait for Camino to flush its own cache.
brian at January 6, 2008 1:56 PM
The site's working fine for me here on the East coast from a couple
of different DNS paths.
Ron at January 6, 2008 1:57 PM
I could see the site late last night with Verizon broadband, though the formatting was still off. Looks great now though.
Kimberly at January 6, 2008 2:14 PM
Ron - How can you see the path?
Crid at January 6, 2008 2:21 PM
All good over here in Australia.....
Vickie at January 6, 2008 3:49 PM
I just now was able to view.
doombuggy at January 6, 2008 6:25 PM
Crid asks:
>Ron - How can you see the path?
Well, one way is to do an IPCONFIG /ALL and note your
DNS entries. Access the page. Connect to a different
service, check that the DNS entries shown in IPCONFIG
are different, and try the page again.
Another way is to do
NSLOOKUP
SERVER serverID
www.advicegoddess.com
(check that the result is 208.69.127.15)
SERVER AdifferentServerID
www.advicegoddess.com
(check that the result is 208.69.127.15)
EXIT
EG:
nslookup
Default Server: dialcache110.ns.uu.
Address: 198.6.1.70
> server dialcache100.ns.uu.net
Default Server: dialcache100.ns.uu.
Address: 198.6.1.60
> www.advicegoddess.com
Server: dialcache100.ns.uu.net
Address: 198.6.1.60
Non-authoritative answer:
Name: www.advicegoddess.com
Address: 208.69.127.15
> server ns1.earthlink.net
Default Server: ns1.earthlink.net
Address: 207.217.126.41
> www.advicegoddess.com
Server: ns1.earthlink.net
Address: 207.217.126.41
Non-authoritative answer:
Name: www.advicegoddess.com
Address: 208.69.127.15
>exit
Ron at January 6, 2008 7:26 PM
Amy, I know this is off topic. but isn't it nice to get a rain storm once in a blue moon? I love it. I have seen it go over a year here without any rain. I kick the windows open and turn the lights down and put on an old movie, make a bacardi and kick back in my easy chair. There is something cathartic about listening to a good hard rain. The wind is kicking like hell too. All the palms in fromt of my window are bent over. COOL.
Bikerken at January 7, 2008 12:06 AM
Glad I can see you - Mondays are bad enough w/o being able to check up on things around here!
P.S: I think I'm on Verizon (I'm at work and therefore not sure/don't care...there's prob a way to check but I'm totally inept computer-wise)
Gretchen at January 7, 2008 5:32 AM
All good here on Verizon DSL from SF.
justin case at January 7, 2008 6:20 AM
Good here from work in Calgary. We're a T1 line, so don't know what that means in tech terms for an ISP. I'll check Shaw cable from home tonight.
moreta at January 7, 2008 7:27 AM
I tried to comment on this earlier, but it may have cracked at my end. I am having issues with my anti-virus software slowing down everything and even not completing actions, when it is updating, which seems to happen two to three times a day. Looking forward to getting new memory, which my computer lifesupport guy claims will end this and many other problems I have with my ancient IBM Thinkpad. Hopefully it will also help me get baby pictures out to the rest of my family - their like crack, family needs a steady supply of pictures or they start getting nasty about it.
Anyhow, I have not had a problem loading the blog in Firefox at all, not so much luck loading individual posts until after this one showed up.
DuWayne at January 7, 2008 8:15 AM
Gregg says the site may still be propagating for some people. Until 72 hours -- tomorrow morning -- we won't be sure whether it's a problem with the site or propagation. He's fixed a bunch of stuff...comments that didn't show up on columns (Norm's and a few others) are now showing up. I went out to a Reason magazine party last night and Gregg stayed home with the wrenches and Superglue and worked on my site!
Amy Alkon at January 7, 2008 8:21 AM
I am able to see you using Shaw cable in Winnipeg and also from work.
Steamer at January 7, 2008 8:56 AM
Thanks so much for letting me know.
PS I wish some of you Canadians would request my column in your locals papers. I do a "special for Canada" column -- I know you're a really huge supplemental state of the US!
Amy Alkon at January 7, 2008 8:59 AM
This is me looking at your site from work!
Bad Kitty at January 7, 2008 9:02 AM
Amy,
You had issues with DNS because you did two moves at the same time. Not only did you change the IP addresses for the web/email servers, (TTL currently 1 day) you also changed the NIC records for your domain's DNS servers. (NIC TTL is usually 48 hours, but your ISP is extending that to 3 days)
Changing the A & MX record TTL to lower numbers (like 5 mins) during server migrations ( you lower the TTL 24 hours in advance of your scheduled cut over) will allow you to control the switch to the new servers. You move the servers to the new ISP, but leave the DNS at the old one, for a week or so.
Once every thing is stable you then put the new DNS at the new ISP, and tell the NIC Registrar to switch their data. With the same DNS data at the old and new ISP's there is no visual impact.
Paul Mossip at January 7, 2008 10:05 AM
Sorry if this is a bit retarded, but this is an active site, with comments...wouldn't this be a problem? We lost a few comments as it is -- hoping to be able to reconstruct them from logs from the old site after my deadline.
Amy Alkon at January 7, 2008 10:14 AM
There are a number of issues with comment synchronization, and active DB sync in general is a tough issue. I know how we do it in business, parallel DB's that are either Active-Active or Active-Passive. Just how you would juggle the transition would depend on exactly how the old and new systems handle comments from an internal point of view (same software? same version? are remote DB's a possibility?)
One use of the low DNS TTL is to make the window where there are potential issues small, and to do the server change over at a low traffic time of day. You just accept there might be a person who gets an error, or the comment script can say "Error, post again?"
A simple way is to disable the comments 30 mins before to 30 mins after the switch, with a 5 min DNS TTL
Paul Mossip at January 7, 2008 10:58 AM
Believe it or not, this is above my pay grade.
At the moment, Gregg is working to make the weird characters disappear. They did, but then the solution gave birth to new weird characters!
Amy Alkon at January 7, 2008 11:07 AM
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