Women who fake orgasms have no one to blame but themselves. If they think they're doing some kind of charity work by moaning for their boy, they're deluded.

I'll do anything to please my wife in bed, but that begins with her telling what she needs, not me reading her mind.

Frankly, I have no sympathy for "fakers". I'll come hard every time even if the house is burning down.

On the other hand, a guy who needs a tweezers and a magnifying glass isn't going to provide all that much in the way of satisfaction. o_O

Women who are "shy" about telling men can say stuff as minimal as, "harder, softer, slower, faster," and "a little higher," or "it feels better on the right."

I have to agree with Snoop. I never understood why any woman would fake it. How the hell is the guy supposed to know what you need if you can't discuss it? Guys are up front (at least in my experience and no pun intended) about what they need/want. How are they supposed to know what we need/want if we're not just as up front? Besides, it seems to go against a woman's self-interest to make a guy think he's good when he's not. He's gonna think he's doing everything right and keep doing everything wrong. A woman's got only herself to blame if she's faking it and going unsatisfied.

Strange, I think, that evolution hasn't taken care of this by moving the clit somewhere more obviously accessible. Common sense suggests that more orgasmic women like to fuck more often than their big-distance sisters, and so will have reproductive advantage.

I never understood why any woman would fake it.

I agree that women who fake it all the time, or even most of the time, are only hurting themselves. That having been said...sometimes everything's going along great, and your partner's doing everything right, and you're contributing enthusiastically...and suddenly the moment passes and you know that it's just not going to happen. At all. At that point, you can either be honest and run the risk of convincing your partner that he was doing something wrong - when you know that he wasn't and what he was doing will work again in the future - or you can fake it, clean up/cuddle and get some sleep before your meeting the next morning. I'm perfectly willing to give feedback and encourage a partner to try various things...but I'm not sure that feedback of the nature of, "You did everything right, but it's just not going to happen, so let's just write this one off, mmmkay?" is helpful. It may be a quirk of female physiology, but sometimes the system just says, "Yeah, this is fun, but no fireworks tonight for you!"

Also...some women just don't, ahem, reach the endpoint all that easily, and can enjoy a sexual encounter with an enthusiastic, reasonably skilled partner without reaching that endpoint. Yes, I think there are probably more women faking it and writing off their chances of orgasm unnecessarily than there are women who genuinely just won't have one all that often...but the latter do exist. Theoretically, these women should be able to say to their partners, "Look, sometimes it's just not going to happen for me, but that doesn't mean you did anything wrong," and have them understand, but...that's not always something that guys can accept, at least not easily.

"Common sense suggests that more orgasmic women like to fuck more often than their big-distance sisters, and so will have reproductive advantage." It's also possible the lesser orgasmic females will likely be more selective about partners. The greater selectivity would likely result in more offspring surviving to reproduce. If sex isn't that much fun and your doing it for the baby maker purposes then you'd be more selective would be my assumption.

On a personal note I can more touch the tip of my nose with my tongue. So as far as I know my wife has no complaints, I've asked.

> The greater selectivity would likely result in more offspring surviving to reproduce.

Ouch, a highly dangerous argument. Playing right into the hands of those savages who think clitoridectomy is good fun. Also, if that were true, evolution would have got rid of the clit altogether in pretty short order... say, in about a million years?

"You did everything right, but it's just not going to happen, so let's just write this one off, mmmkay?" is helpful. It may be a quirk of female physiology, but sometimes the system just says, "Yeah, this is fun, but no fireworks tonight for you!"
***
At lease it's an honest statement. A reasonable man should be able to understand.

I always wonder about the women who can't reach out & rub their own love button, with their man watching. I mean, if you can't do it in front of him, what are you waiting for.

Some men are threatened by sexually experienced women, or a very horny woman, because they think she'll be unfaithful. They also think that porn is reality, so if a woman doesn't come in 2 seconds the way the actresses do, then they think there's something wrong with her. I think those are 2 reasons why women fake it. Another one is that some women want a relationship and will exchange sex for one.

The easiest way for a woman to come from intercourse alone is with the woman on top, and then she has to get the angle exactly right, so that her clit is grinding on the guy's pubic bone at the right intensity. The distance factor mentioned in the article wouldn't make any difference if you did it that way.

The shy aspect definitely dampens the experience. I will stay on the down low until a woman starts shaking from the excitement. Unfortunately, some I have had the pleasure with are often embarrassed by their nether region, limiting full satisfaction, which makes me realize the double negative of a women's sexual enjoyment. They say the mind (imagination) is the most erotic body part, so with a woman who is preoccupied with "I forgot to shave" or wondering if they have that "less than fresh feeling" and all the other thoughts that continually limit their enjoyment, along with the misconception of the Lincoln Tunnel Syndrome, no wonder it gets twisted with fake O's. What a way to screw with your mind - and not in a pleasurable way.

Oh man. I'll probably get flamed again.

First, let me qualify. I'm not a woman. I don't have as much information as women. I don't have a gargantuan penis. As always, I admit the possibility of error. So, here goes.

I think women go crazy over large penises, perhaps more than any single aspect of a man except his financial endowment. I have to conclude that penis size is the most important factor to women for good sex.

Here's why I think so. Remember, before you flame me, I freely admit this is all anecdotal.

Example 1: I worked with a guy who was extremely well-endowed, or so he said. And he did say so. His basic pickup strategy was, "Hello, I have a big dick, want to have sex?" while he gestured to indicate it's size. He had sex with over half-a-dozen women who were married, and scores of women --- all at one workplace. Women literally lined up to give him a try, and then they would laugh about how sore they were the next day.

Example 2: A gym-rat friend of mine is massive to the point of grotesque proportions. Women ask him over all the time, even women he doesn't know. By word of mouth, his endowment is well known. Women literally line up to have sex with him too.

Example 3: The "how Heidi Klum met Seal" story.

Example 4: Black men are assumed to be well-endowed, and sure enough women flock to them. I have a mate who's Black and a little chubby. When we go out sarging, white women proposition him constantly. Even he's freaked out about it because he's not very well-endowed. He says white women are often disappointed. I find this amusing for some perverse reason.

If we look at the actions of women not their words, they seem to place penis size at the top of the list of attributes for sexual partners.

Flame on.

"Playing right into the hands of those savages who think clitoridectomy is good fun." No lack of pleasure is different then making it painful. That's done not for the purpose of reproduction but to prevent infidelity. Making sex painful will prevent the women from doing it at all. She will have intercourse as little as possible not good for evolution either.

"Some men are threatened by sexually experienced women, or a very horny woman, because they think she'll be unfaithful." That would be origins of the virgin whore complex and female curcumsicions. Is this true or not? I can't think of any study that compared sex drive (in an arbitrary way) to infidelity.

"Hello, I have a big dick, want to have sex?" That's exactly what he said to ALL of these women and he never got fired for harassment, your missing something. Also where do you work that there are scores of women ready and willing to share the office cock?

"A gym-rat friend of mine" Don't you think this factor helped. Your friend is a gym rat thus I can only assume he's in good shape.

Jeff - I agree. You're right. Big penises can be great. But so can average ones. And even small ones.

If it were all about size we'd have our men wearing giant purple strap ons. If you get a guy with a big pecker with no skills, compared to a smaller guy with skills, well I'd rather have the one who's going to get my jollies off.

If you find a guy who CAN do it, a large penis is just a perk.

I imagine it is comparable to a small (i.e. tight) vagina. If the girl lays there like a dead fish, it would probably be more satisfying to have someone a little more "roomy" and more sensual.

Further, you must be surrounded by hookers. I would never screw someone just b/c I heard they had a big penis. I have a whole list of things that catch my eye, but if a man dropped trowel to show me his large member, I would run screaming. (or at least laugh and point).

That's exactly what he said to ALL of these women and he never got fired for harassment, your missing something. Also where do you work that there are scores of women ready and willing to share the office cock?

Ah, the flames begin. Use some common sense and drop the universalizations. Office Casanovas aren't that rare.

Don't you think this factor helped. Your friend is a gym rat thus I can only assume he's in good shape.

Yes. But the other in-shape gym-rats don't have women lining up for them. I wouldn't have mentioned it if wasn't exceptional.

I don't mind people setting me straight, but your commentary is rather inane.

I think women go crazy over large penises,

No, that's just the urban myth. Like "All men love those giant porno breasts." Rational people like whatever you've got, if you're confident enough to pull it out & get down.

As for why your friends get so much play. The women probably think "Hey, worth a shot." Like some kind of super hugh roller coaster.

What kind of clubs are you at, yo!?!?!

we'd have our men wearing giant purple strap ons (dena)

LOL. That'll keep me laughing for the rest of the day.

Further, you must be surrounded by hookers (dena).

Heh. I, too, wonder wonder about this sometimes.

I would never screw someone just b/c I heard they had a big penis (dena).

I gotta' tell you, it seems that many women will. I wish it were otherwise, but judging from what I've seen over the last twenty years of dating -- it isn't.

Back to the point:

"Dr. Eugene Fine, another urologist I interviewed a while back: "Most of the anatomy in a woman that's responsive to sexual pleasure is right at the front door."

Wouldn't that mean the entrance of the vagina? Not the clit? I don't understand how the distance your clit is from your opening effects the stimulation of pelvis' rubbing together.

Chrissy - exactly. I thought the goal of sex was to put your private parts together. ;)

I don't understand how the distance your clit is from your opening effects the stimulation of pelvis' rubbing together (dena).

The theory is that the closer the clitoris is to the vaginal opening the more easily the penis can rub against it. Proximity reduces the angular distance required to actually touch the clitoris. It's a geometry thing.

"Ah, the flames begin. Use some common sense and drop the universalizations. Office Casanovas aren't that rare." Yeah I know office Casanovas are not that rare no argument. However the line "I got a huge cock wanna fuck" doesn't work all that well. I can imagine it would work on some women some of the time. I still think that if he pulled this line with enough women (which with the numbers you are describing he'd have to sue it a lot) he'd try it on the wrong one at some point.

I don't know much about angles jeff, but I do know that if a pecker was to be at an angle that it would be able to touch my clit, that pecker would be aimed the wrong way.

To comment on:
[["Common sense suggests that more orgasmic women like to fuck more often than their big-distance sisters, and so will have reproductive advantage." It's also possible the lesser orgasmic females will likely be more selective about partners. The greater selectivity would likely result in more offspring surviving to reproduce. If sex isn't that much fun and your doing it for the baby maker purposes then you'd be more selective would be my assumption.]]

Where does it say that the clitoris has jackadoodleflippy to do with reproductive health? Where does it say that women who gain more frequent enjoyment of sex are less capable of finding good mates or being good mothers?

If you were to follow that line of thinking, wouldn't it be women who enjoy sex more often who don't just settle with the first guy to get them off?
Just finding the idea of the clitoris deciding who makes a good mother a bit ridiculous. It's a bit like saying people with more agile toes earn higher salaries. With the right anecdotes, you could probably "prove" it (either way), but it seems a bit silly.

"Dr. Eugene Fine, another urologist I interviewed a while back: "Most of the anatomy in a woman that's responsive to sexual pleasure is right at the front door."

Although, I've also read that the same nerves that go to the clit, circle the opening & feed into the G spot. So the more you stimulate all three at the same time, the better it is going to go. That all counts as at the front door, I'd say.

But wouldn't discount a little finger to the back door. ;-)

Women tremble from the tongue technique every time (oral) but not always by going at it straight (intercourse), so how can the Big D fallacy even be true. If she hasn't collapsed from shear pleasure or still trembling after the fact, then you might want to revise your game plan because the "big lineman" isn't scoring the "touch down". Besides, I have never had a dude back up his claims with any corroborating evidence, its usually the typical stories (lies) that get past around the locker room. Yeah dude, uh-hu...you the man.

I don't know much about angles jeff, but I do know that if a pecker was to be at an angle that it would be able to touch my clit, that pecker would be aimed the wrong way (dena).

LOL Maybe that's why large penises are so handy. ;-)

It's the angular distance between the penis and the pelvis, with the vertex being the base of the penis where it joins the torso.

As an aside, it's been conjectured that larger penises cause the vaginal opening to be pressed outward to the sides more, causing the clitoris to pull downward closer or even onto the penis, thus providing for more clitoral stimulation.

Jeff - Thank you for that explanation! I do love BIG words ;)

"Where does it say that women who gain more frequent enjoyment of sex are less capable of finding good mates or being good mothers?" In the modern day? Nothing. However if something is more fun you'll do it more. Thus it would be safe to assume that she would have more sex. Now as far as how many partners she will have? Shit fair enough there is no way to tell. This will have no bearing on her being a good mother so long as she can control her drive. These two actions balance out evolutionarily and could explain why all happy nubs are not straddling the opining like your uvula.

Well, ya know, sometimes big is TOO big. And sometimes small is TOO small. I've had both; I prefer bigger to smaller, but not TOO big, because TOO big hurts after a while.

"It's the angular distance between the penis and the pelvis, with the vertex being the base of the penis where it joins the torso." Now your predictions of flaming will come true. Stop abusing science terms, it's wrong especially if your trying to be serious.
Angular distance is the perceived distance between two points. The measurement would be in radians or degrees. If you are using the term correctly then the angular distance between the penis (approximated as a point?) and the pelvis would be smallest for a small and highly curved member. The term you are looking for is distance (point p to point c).

The happy nub (sorry for the 4th grade words I'm at work) would be rubbed by the area above the member. So if you angle forward while the guy is on top you should have no problem hitting the happy place. So to use the word properly you want to reduce the angular distance between your faces with the p to c interface being the vertex to improve stimulation. To put it simple lean forward and grind.

A thick penis would cause the vaginal opening to be pressed to sides more, not a longer one. And that still wouldn't move the clit a full 2.5 cm so it was right on top of the penis. The clit still has to rub on the pelvic bone of the guy.

I can come on top when I've got the angle right, and the width of the penis will make it more pleasurable, but only because of the being-filled feeling. It's way to much work, takes too long, and needs too much concentration. It's like expecting a guy to come by just touching his balls and ignoring his dick.

What I do now is have my guy gives me some nice oral till I've come once or twice, and then while I'm all tingly, we have intercourse with the pressure off me to perform. (He gets very very good reciprocal oral, because I'm so happy!)

I think a woman who enjoys sex would be very selective in her choice of partner. You would ideally want a guy who would take the time to make sure you come. A lot of guys just want to get their rocks off as quickly as possible, so what's in it for a woman to bother with them?

Flynne, I agree. There is a just-right size for me, not too big, not too small, because either it hurts or you can't feel anything.

vlad - To put it simple lean forward and grind.

Wouldn't the clit just be grinding on the pelvic bone?

And about this:

only about 7% of women always have orgasms with sex alone, he says, while 27% say they never do.

Does that mean, never have orgasms? Or never have orgasms from sex alone?

"Wouldn't the clit just be grinding on the pelvic bone?" Yes but I should have put a caveate. You are not making flour down there don't grind like you think you are.

Also I believe there are quite a few studies out that say most of these issues are between the person's ears and have nothing to do with physiology. That's where stupid remedies like tiger penis soup come from. I'm guessing it works for both genders.

"Wouldn't the clit just be grinding on the pelvic bone?" I think women on top works for this cause she can control the rate and pressure.

Not that I should be so curious. Apparently I am one of the lucky 7! I should keep my mouth shut and count my blessings.

Personally to the reader who said girls like big penises. Well, after having relationships with a few men, the men who had the biggest penises were the best lovers. I do not know why.

As far as clit stimulation to orgasm, which is the best in my opinion, I have no problem doing myself if my boyfriend couldn't. Which is not to say having intercourse with him isn't wonderful, it is.

Not all men can make all women orgasm. Whomever created us made it easy for the guys and less so for us girls. Obviously he was a sexist. haha

So what about guys who fake it? Surely I'm not the only one.

Guys cannot fake orgasm. There is always a discharge ...somewhere.

If penises size or breast size didn’t matter, there wouldn’t be a market for penises/breast enhancement.

justagirl@ "Guys cannot fake orgasm. There is always a discharge ...somewhere."

Girl, you have a thing or two to learn. Do you have eyes in your vagina?

BTW, who gives a CRAP about how hard it is for a woman to orgasm. They just need to take things in hand ... .

rusty wilson,

I think you have a thing or two to learn about the vagina. Do You think it all just disappears inside? geez.

And who should care about whether a girl comes or not? well I suppose that should be you if ever feel like being more than a one-night stand. :)

Sorry Rusty,

my comment was for the guy below you. Jay R.

> Where does it say that women who gain more frequent enjoyment of sex are less capable of finding good mates or being good mothers?

Nowhere, but that isn't the point. I'm comparing woman A who cums like a double-engine Canadian Pacific Express, and woman B who just does it out of duty. A and B can be exactly equal in terms of mate-finding and mothering. A will have more offspring, in general. It says so right here in Darwin, Maynard Smith, Richard Dawkins, S J Gould, Jacques Monod, et al et al et al.

I'll jump on the "women who fake it" wagon. After several years of being a right whore, one of the biggest lessons I came out with, is that not all women like the same things. So I really don't take it personally, if the women I happen to be with wants me to do something different. Being extremely eager to please, I am more than happy to do what it takes to get the job done right. Can't do that if I don't know, can't know, if she's just pretending to enjoy it. Warning, TMI ahead...

Exceptions to that, are women who's bodies make it obvious. My partner is one of those. She clenches so hard, that it actually pulled a condom off me, one of the first times we had sex.

what I find surprising is that this study is NEW! So many women have trouble achieving orgasm, and now it turns out that one contributing factor is something as simple as distance from clit to vagina?! how can it be that scientists are only now figuring this out?

Deny the unthinkable all you want, but D.B. Cooper has left the airplane.

justagirl -

Actually, there are a couple of ways for guys to get away with it, I have done it innumerable times. Indeed, there are even times when I do it with my partner, where no condoms are used. After a few goes round, I just don't have the cum left. By that point, she's really not going to notice I didn't actually leave anything, that go round.

But that aside, for years I was able to get away with it, on the rare occasions it was necessary. I just got rid of the condom with subtlety and no one's the wiser. I get the feeling that most women are happy to leave the used condom in the trash.

Dena -

No, that means that 27% never had orgasms from sex alone. The thing that annoys me, is that I'm assuming he means intercourse alone. I for one, consider the oral sex and clitoral stimulation during intercourse, to be sex too. Indeed, sex just isn't sex, without assorted, related fun and games...

Chrissy -

I can come on top when I've got the angle right, and the width of the penis will make it more pleasurable, but only because of the being-filled feeling.

I'm rather fond of this point myself, because it is one of the more comfortable positions (at least for a guy) that provides near maximum depth.

"Guys cannot fake orgasm. There is always a discharge ...somewhere."

discharge is not the same as... and, as said they aren't always earth shakers. people vary. the question is, what're you going to do to find out how your partner feels?

thing2? After a woman has the first kid normally [not c-section] things change dramatically, and some doesn't come back, as I have heard from my ex and others... So? you just have to try harder.

The Q? is do you want your partner to feel that euphoria or no? If yes, then you try different stuff to make it happen. This goes for both genders. It's no fun to have a demanding partner who has no concern for you. Most women assume guys are automatic, but the quality of it varies widely based on what she does. Or doesn't do.

>After a woman has the first kid normally [not c-section] things change dramatically, and some doesn't come back,

Swiss Army D, having children is not an excuse. Thank goodness she's your ex, because having a ditch is sheer self-centered laziness. Tell the woman to do some keigel exercises. They're not difficult and can be done anytime and no one but the 'exerciser' will know.

This is one of my favorite topics. Thanks Amy!

This idea about the big penis being better and women faking it is pretty damn easy to explain from my perspective.

I'm gonna say this in the simplest way possible, and you're going to have to read the rest before you're allowed to get all angry: Many young women don't know jack about sex.

Due to our culture of sexual shame, many women have never even seen their clitoris, let alone taken the time to figure out how it works. We get the idea we're supposed to be sex machines who get off by being pounded away at in 5 minutes. If you don't get off like that, you either pretend you do, or write it off entirely. If you have sex, you're not supposed to brag about it, and you certainly don't go around asking for tips.

If you don't know how it works, and you hear that a big penis is better, you'll probably be willing to take it for a spin. Given the crazy things people try to make sex better, this isn't exactly an epiphany of an idea.

Many of the young women who do have sex go one of two ways: they either have lots of it, and say it's fantastic and that they're getting off every time, or they don't talk about it at all, hide that they are, or otherwise avoid the issue. Because, you know, women that enjoy sex are whores, unless it's with their boyfriend. So if you want to have sex, it better be good, because you are under tremendous pressure to compensate for the fact that you are even interested in it in the first place. Madonna/Whore complex is alive and well, especially in young men.

Once you start faking it, you're pretty much screwed. And badly. Whatever your reason for doing it the first time, the second, whatever, there's really no going back without drama. And my generation is a bunch of cowards. Fragile young egos + admitting you faked it + feeling that there's something wrong with you if you don't respond like you think you should = never going to happen.

The women that actually enjoy their sexuality for itself rather than parading it around for the benefit of onlookers all say the same thing: size only matters if it's TOO big or TOO small. The majority of men fall right in the middle and it doesn't matter. Skills are the important thing and... big shocker here.... confidence. A great contributing factor to the big penis myth is that men who have one know it, know the myth, and are sexually confident as a result. They then get more, and THEN they can become good lovers if they care to take advantage of their additional opportunities to practice.

That said, orgasm in men doesn't always = discharge. They can run out or they can train themselves not to. Not terribly common but it happens.

A great contributing factor to the big penis myth is that men who have one know it, know the myth, and are sexually confident as a result. They then get more, and THEN they can become good lovers if they care to take advantage of their additional opportunities to practice (Christina).

This is a very plausible, even probable, refutation of my claims. For the record, I noticed. Thanks.

As a guy, I've faked it before. I just can't always finish with a raincoat on, and after a while, it's just not worth the effort. At that point, I don;t see the purpose in telling the girl "sorry, that's it", since the times where I didn't usually result in awkwardness.

The purpose of the event strilkes me as both intimacy and pleasure. If I can;t get the full pleasure, I'll still enjoy the intimacy. If there's nothing the girl can do to help, then there's no reason to put it on her.

Thanks Christina for outlining the crap that women have to go through, and the brainwashing that keeps us from enjoying sex the way we should. I decided at 17 that I was going to figure out how my sexuality worked and enjoy it as much as possible, and believe me, I was very private about it, because there is still a lot of judgment going on.

Confidence is very important. Nothing turns me off more than a guy whining 'is it big enough', or whatever he's hung up about. It must be like a woman who goes on about how fat her ass is, cellulite, etc. when she's with a guy who probably thinks she's really hot.

Chrissy -

Here is why we are so fucked up about our sexuality.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/110965/page/3

In Alabama distributing a device that provides genital stimulation is punishable by up to a year in jail or $10,000 fine.