Ladies, You're Just A Vagina In Islam
Retired Muslim (okay, apostate) Abul Kasem explains a few things about the status of women in Islam on Islam-Watch:
The method of securing such sexual/physical pleasure, as per Islam, is very similar to a commercial/business transaction. In Islam, a woman has no right to get married on her own accord if she has a guardian. In all cases of marriage and sex she is treated merely as a sexual object, much like the provider of a service for which she must be paid some compensation. In Islamic parlance, this compensation for sexual service is known as mahr or dower. All Muslim men must agree to pay an amount of money before marrying a woman. This payment can be immediate or it can be deferred to a future date. Now you know what a mahr is.No Islamic marriage is valid without the agreement for a dower. In reality, however, this dower is nothing but the payment for the possession of a female body for sexual gratification by the male. It is a very blunt statement, I have made, you may think. To check the veracity of such a direct and outrageous statement, please open any Sha'ria book, such as reference 8. Here is an excerpt from this authentic Sha'ria (the divine law of Allah) book.Ownership of a woman's body to do as he likes including beating
m5.4 (ref: 8, p.526) husbands rights
A husband possesses full right to enjoy his wife's person (A: from the top of her head to the bottoms of her feet, though anal intercourse (dis: p75.20) is absolutely unlawful) in what does not physically harm her.
He is entitled to take her with him when he travels.
Let us also look into a book of Islamic jurisprudence that was used(during the British Raj in India) as a textbook for Hanafi laws at Inns of Law (London). It is the book, (reference 11) which even the Sha'ria lawyers consult regularly in the interpretation of Islamic laws. In page 44 of this book, it is written:
Full dower is the payment for the delivery of woman's person, Booza, meaning Genitalia arvum Mulieris.
The wife entitled to her whole dower upon the consummation of the marriage or the death of the husband. If a person specify a dower of ten or more Dirms, and should afterwards consummate his marriage, or be removed by death, his wife, in either case, has a claim to the whole of the dower specified, because, by consummation, the delivery of the return for the dower, namely the Booza, or woman's person,* is established, and therein is confirmed the right to the consideration, namely, the dower; and, on the other hand, by the decease of the husband the marriage is rendered complete by its completion, and consequently is so with respect to all its effects.
(* Literally, Genitale arvum Mulieris)
Yes, you read it correctly. The meaning of Genitalia arvum Mulieris is woman's vagina. The above few sentences clearly meant that a woman sells her vagina in return for the mahr. It is a commercial transaction. Make no mistake about it! Period.
This is the real meaning of sex in Islam; that is, a man buys a woman's sex organ for enjoyment through the payment of mahr, which is the Islamic dower. Whether a woman really enjoys this kind of 'forced' sex is completely irrelevant in Islamic concept of sex. A man's orgasm becomes absolutely a necessity when a woman is contracted in marriage through the payment of Islamic mahr (or its deferment to a future date).
If you thought that I am exaggerating too much and speaking 'out of context' then there is more surprise for you. In the same book it is written that the possession of object of contract is the actual coitus or enjoyment and the right to dower is not confirmed without enjoyment. Enjoyment of what? Please read the full text for the answer.
More at the link. Kasem is a contributor to Ibn Warraq's book of essays, Leaving Islam: Apostates Speak Out.
This is one more reason I don't understand why some women actually convert to Islam.
Jessica at March 19, 2008 6:47 AM
Maybe they just like the pretty tents with the eyeholes?
Amy Alkon at March 19, 2008 7:12 AM
"Maybe they just like the pretty tents with the eyeholes?"
Even if your wife is brought to you in a bag, there's no assurance that she's still fresh. No wonder the guys are angry. Over here we call it buying a pig in a poke.
That's ridiculous, of course. Muslims don't eat pork.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at March 19, 2008 7:25 AM
Lusty Muslim ladies go in for hymen reattachment surgery. I mean, if your religion's holy book says you're just a vagina, and your actual vagina isn't in factory-sealed condition, what value are you?
Amy Alkon at March 19, 2008 8:49 AM
*LOL* Factory sealed condition! Well put Miss Alkon.
Robert H. Butler at March 19, 2008 8:54 AM
If muslim men ever find out about porn shops that sell pocket vaginas, it could change their whole culture forever!!!!!! What a bunch of ignorant, backwards numbnuts.
brian at March 19, 2008 9:05 AM
What if the women find out about pocket rockets?? Talk about changing their culture! o_O
Flynne at March 19, 2008 9:27 AM
"What if the women find out about pocket rockets?? Talk about changing their culture! o_O"
That discovery certainly could set the region abuzz.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at March 19, 2008 10:10 AM
Flynne - That's why they have the wonders of clitorectomy. If the entire purpose of a woman is to satisfy the man, then we can't have her enjoying it too, can we?
brian at March 19, 2008 11:33 AM
"Given that the pressure on girls to be thin has its origins in biological preferences, there is no point in blaming models or the media [for anorexia]. But culture has it's own protection against cruel nature - traditional dress codes. If girls were to rediscover modesty then the problem would decline. That is why Western women converting to Islam often say they find it an intensely liberating experience.."
"Islamic garb, like other phenomena such as foot-binding and female circumcision, is as much to do with female-female competition as it is with men jealously guarding their women."
from "The Woman Racket"
Norman L. at March 19, 2008 6:08 PM
I'm beginning to observe that as long-held feminist myths begin to be exposed for what they are in Western cultures, many people start to look at other cultures to find reason to believe that women are, or have been, oppressed by men.
It simply MUST be true.
Norman L. at March 19, 2008 6:14 PM
Here's a study I just read by Panteha Abdollahi and Traci Mann in which they found (to their surprise) that Iranian women, who are covered from head to toe in big coats, and not exposed to western media, are as or more concerned about body image than women they studied in Los Angeles:
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/85511152/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Amy Alkon at March 19, 2008 7:53 PM
More about it here:
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=165500§ioncode=26
Amy Alkon at March 19, 2008 7:55 PM
What's going on..aren't any of you pissed off by my comments yet? Especially the second one - I was hoping someone would at least take it out of context, or read something into it.
You guys are sorry excuses for feminists. Maybe I should go post on feministing.com.
Norman L. at March 20, 2008 12:22 AM
You might get mind-cooties, be careful.
Amy Alkon at March 20, 2008 12:38 AM
Some of us may be feminists but what brings us all here is a desire to worship the goddess Amy, and learn at her feet.
Norman at March 20, 2008 2:07 AM
What's going on..aren't any of you pissed off by my comments yet? Especially the second one - I was hoping someone would at least take it out of context, or read something into it.
Norman, come on, we know where you're at! o_O
Flynne at March 20, 2008 6:32 AM
"They don't care about me, they really really don't care about me!"............Norman
Bikerken at March 20, 2008 9:12 AM
Can I just clarify - there are two Normans posting here: me (the original and best) and Norman L (the troll).
Norman at March 20, 2008 12:09 PM
Who the heck are YOU, an actual troll? I'm Norman, same as "Norman L". I think there's a couple times I forgot to type in the "L."
I'm not a troll, I was just under the impression there were lots of feminists posting on this board. My "plea" above was intended to be sarcastic - I really don't like most feminists. If there is another Norman on this board, i.e. the person who made the entry immediately above, then I'll make sure I always type in the "L"
(Amy, you have my email address on all my comments - can you give some clarification here? I suspect people out there are really confused by now! I'm the some person who posts as "Norman L." on Glenn Sacks' board.)
P.S. I ain't worshippin' no goddess..nothing personal Amy.
Norman L. at March 20, 2008 3:23 PM
Test..
Norman L. at March 20, 2008 3:26 PM
Okay, I just tested my name, "Norman L.", with a totally bogus email address, and it still posted (see immediately above). That pretty much proves that the person who posted at 12:09 p.m. is either a troll, or at least someone who recently "borrowed" my moniker and is trying to undermine my entries on this thread.
(although I'll still consider the possibility that he is legitimate, i.e. another Norman who hasn't posted here in a while).
Norman L. at March 20, 2008 3:30 PM
Sorry Normaon but feminists aviod this site like the plauge.
Feminism teaches that women are always victims no matter waht, that they are not responsible for their own actions, and that they should never be held accoutale because someow a man is always to blame.
Amy points out constantly that people are responsible for their own actions even if they have a vagina. She also points out feminist hypocrisy for going after things like prolonged eye contact in america and shampoo comercials while ignoring things like honor killings and gential mutilation in every other corner of the globe. Hell, even when it happens in america feminists spend less time on honnor killings than they do on trying to convice people the duke lacrose team "really is guilty of something"
So feminists tend to try and aviod her
lujlp at March 20, 2008 5:37 PM
So, what exactly is the difference between the muslim custom and Western customs? Women still sell themselves -- one way or another.
The trouble for Western women is that the value of vagina is declining -- drastically. (It has something to do with the law of supply and demand.)
Jay R at March 20, 2008 9:20 PM
It's illegal to literally sell your body here, although it shouldn't be.
The difference is in the autonomy, Jay. Women in Muslim countries are objects, possessions, and have few rights.
Amy Alkon at March 20, 2008 9:47 PM
I was just under the impression there were lots of feminists posting on this board
Why, because it's my site and I have breasts? Do you READ my comments on Glenn Sacks' site? Do you notice that my views might not exactly draw admiring feminists in droves?
And lujlp is right (thanks, lujlp)...I'm for fairness for all people, and I'm a "personal responsibilitarian."
Amy Alkon at March 20, 2008 9:49 PM
Chill out Amy, I wasn't saying you yourself are a feminist. I just thought a few months ago when I checked, I saw a few misandric whiners on here. Maybe I'm thinking of another board. Besides, I enjoy spreading hatred and discontent. Been doin' it since I was a kid, when I pissed off my grandmother to the point where she threw my pink chicken out the car window.
And in the interest of starting (or continuing) heated arguments among people, I have been known to argue either side of an issue. My Myers-Briggs says my type "learns by argueing". I'm thus hoping to become a genius by using these various internet boards. (of course I argued with the instructor over the validity of the M-B test. It really is a bunch of crap. You can't pigeonhole people by their psychology).
Norman L. at March 20, 2008 10:28 PM
Okay, I just tested my name, "Norman L.", with a totally bogus email address, and it still posted (see immediately above). That pretty much proves that the person who posted at 12:09 p.m. is either a troll, or at least someone who recently "borrowed" my moniker and is trying to undermine my entries on this thread.
(although I'll still consider the possibility that he is legitimate, i.e. another Norman who hasn't posted here in a while).
Your proof does not hold water. I've been posting here for years, always as plain "Norman." I think anyone who reads here regularly will easily be able to tell our writing styles apart. For one thing I use UK spelling. If you are willing to be "Norman L" that would suit me fine as I would not have to change! Then I can get back to undermining your posts - that (as well as worshipping Amy) is what we all do - it's not personal. Usually :-)
Tell us more about your pink chicken, please!
Norman at March 21, 2008 4:45 AM
Go away Norman, you're detracting from an otherwise compelling subject contained within this thread. You can argue with yourself in front of the mirror if you need the experience for growth.
Juliana at March 26, 2008 6:50 AM
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