And I'm all like, yeah, but adult-onset diabetes in children is an epidemic in urban America.

You don't stop it by banning fast food restaurants. Are they also going to prohibit 7-11 from selling Ding Dongs and Doritos?

This is bullshit grandstanding, and the equivalent of trying to stop a tsunami with a wad off toiletpaper.

I heard Gary Taubes speak at USC on childhood obesity. He presented piles of solid data showing how to solve the problem: eliminate flour, sugar and carbohydrates from kids' diets.

I have to say, much of what people think is dietary science is actually "science."

I just wrote a snarly e-mail back to PETA about this today.

Taubes' book will soon be out in very affordable paperback!

Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health (Vintage)

The hardcover is available now:

Good Calories, Bad Calories

First they came for the guns, but I didn't own a gun (even though there are plenty of drivers I'd like to shoot) . . .

Then they came for the butts, but I didn't smoke ('cept for hemp, though now I can't mask the hemp with my butt) . . .

Now they've come for my lard, but I don't have any (and I need some everyone says -- unlike our fearless leaders who have an excess of lard in their butts).

So is the supposed to be For Our Own Good, or is it part of the ongoing effort to remove even the slightest joy from our lives?

"eliminate flour, sugar and carbohydrates from kids' diets." That's crap. I can see restricting carbs but I doubt eliminating them would be wise ,useful or even possible. I'd stay away from refined sugars as much as practical yes. However a pure Atkins style diet tends to cause high cholesterol and triglycerides.

The main thing that has serious benifits for reducing or eliminating type 2 diabetes is exercise. Professional athletes eat pasta, and shit loads of it. We had pasta, rice, bread etc. when both we were growing up and when our parents were growing up. Yet now out of the blue we have this rise in type 2. I started having some of the pre diabetes symptoms not the actual blood sugar ones but some other. Started Kung Fu all gone within less than 6 months. Dad went on an exercisers kick for a few weeks and many of his symptoms went down as well. No dietary changes on his part and I still ate carbs and bread just less of them. Also Type 2 diabetes is a primarily American phenomenon where as the poor countries who are veg by circumstance don't have the problem.

As far as banning the fast food place. Well fist she didn't ban them she put a moratorium on new ones. I'm not sure what she thinks this will help. Sounds like the prohibition movement found themselves a new scape goat. First alcohol, then tobacco (at private establishments) now fatty foods. Shit I thought Demolition man was really an exaggeration of the future I'm not so sure any more.

I'm a non-smoker and non-drinker who has long protested the sin taxes and raising the drinking age. People didn't understand why I thought it important. I didn't understand why I wasn't supposed to think it important as long as it was happening to other people. Sigh. Now they're coming after my vice and I've a sickening feeling that no one will care and I'm still left wondering how people don't get that it's everyone's freedoms being curtailed in the long run.

I think old rpm daddy has a point. I hate to sound paranoid but the government seems to be breaking us down bit by bit. We were just so much freer 30 years ago.

I have to go with Old Rpm and T's Grammy, something is deeply wrong here.

It looks like the "Social Good" is the new religion. Just like the faith system of old times, they seems to share the same dubious hard line with the same stupid line: "It's for your own good". The only difference is that "Sky-Daddy" and his hustlers are now replaced by "Socially Aware" academicians.

I don't care what this "Health Cult" says, I am old enough to enjoy junk food if I want too.

...The Tyranny of Good Intentions...

This is what happens when the "holier-than-thou" types are left to their own devices, without any monitoring. There are too damn many of them in too many public offices anymore. Time to vote them the hell out before they cause further damage and more infringements on our freedoms. o_O

I get the impression from all holier than though types that they are trying to eliminate their own temptation. As Amy pointed out Jan is not a small women. If you can't control your cravings for something but want to the easiest way to do so is simply eliminate it.

I'm ok with the sin tax IF it's used for reducing the cost of said sin and if there is an actual cost of said sin. As an evil hate fueled blood thirsty smoker (whose sole purpose is to poison every one) I'm fine with the taxes on cigs IF they go to health care. Yeah I know it's bad for me and I do it outside and away from the public. However sin tax seam to be used for unrelated gov projects like the $8 per pack tax in NYC. I'm paving my lungs why the hell should I also pave the roads? Also why should all of you pay for my stupid habit?

"However a pure Atkins style diet tends to cause high cholesterol and triglycerides." Sorry screwed up on this one. Atkins actually lower cholesterol as per a new long term study.

I can see restricting carbs but I doubt eliminating them would be wise ,useful or even possible

Read Taubes' work. You're wrong, and based on your own supposition, not on data.

What's amazing is how people cling to their prejudices -- even people in the business of stopping childhood obesity -- after he shows them a mountain of data about how wrong they are.

Check out the Inuit. They had no cancer and didn't suffer from other diseases while they ate only very fatty meat, and almost no vegetables. This changed when explorers came into their society and they started eating sugar and flour. Now they're fat and have terrible health problems.

As Taubes told me in a phone interview, meat has every vitamin but vitamin C.

Give me a break. No one is going to spend the money to go eat at a sit-down restaurant there. If they wanted to eat healthy, McD's has salads and apple slices! If you're fat, it's your fault. Or, if you are very young, your parent's fault. Period. No matter how many burgers are available in your 'hood. Let's stop blaming the businesses who sell us what we obviously want!

"They had no cancer and didn't suffer from other diseases while they ate only very fatty meat, and almost no vegetables." How do we know that there was no cancer among the Inuit before the explorers, if you have a study I'm all ears? There's no way of knowing what they did or did not have as they had a different concept of cancer and medicine.

"You're wrong, and based on your own supposition, not on data." No I'm basing it on data from both Atkins and the Mediterranean diet studies. They are both low carb diets but they are not carb free. They have no simple carbs and no refined sugars or corn syrup.

"As far as banning the fast food place. Well fist she didn't ban them she put a moratorium on new ones. I'm not sure what she thinks this will help."

It will help the existing fast food restaurants who are now guaranteed to operate competition-free.

It's not the government's job to tell people how to live, however pure their intentions are. There are a million reasons they can make up to keep people from doing what they want. The only thing to impeded them is for citizens to finally say "STOP." Every person who voted for this measure on the LA City Council should be voted out of office. Period.

If we keep going down this path, eventually we will all be legislated into sitting in our homes with our hands folded.

from Amazon.com on the book you recomended:
"Taubes argues persuasively that the problem lies in refined carbohydrates (white flour, sugar, easily digested starches) and sugars–via their dramatic and longterm effects on insulin, the hormone that regulates fat accumulation–and that the key to good health is the kind of calories we take in, not the number." This is a far cry from a carb free diet. I disagree with his stance on exercise. Physical activity has shown improvements across the board in both weight (when mixed with healthy diet) and general health.

I have had that suspicion for quite a while. It's fairly obvious when comparing the high price foods (Whole foods being one extreme) and the mickey mouse shit sold at the corner bodeag. At whole foods you get shot for even thinking about corn syrup, at the bodega you can't get anything that's not made with corn syrup. Then look at obesity vs tax bracket it's pretty severe. The only thing I can see that's changed from my parents or grand parents generation and mine would be the gallons of corn syrup consumed and activity level.

BTW will be getting the book today thanks.

"It will help the existing fast food restaurants who are now guaranteed to operate competition-free." Right it's going to have no effect on the consumption of fast food just higher profit margins.

Stopping the opening of more fast food restaurants won't have much affect except, as vlad points out, to guarantee business to those already open.

The big problems: the food we should be eating (lean meats, fruit and veggies, whole grain breads - all the healthy stuff around the edges of the supermarket) is becoming prohibitively expensive as its being flown/trucked in from halfway around the planet, and because farm land is giving way to ever more acres of 'burbs. And of course we all drive everywhere so not a lot of calorie-burning going on. I'm wondering if the whole gas price thing might be a blessing in disguise? Maybe there'll be a return to vegetable gardens and family farms thus forcing us all to eat "local"?

Exercise makes you hungry, causing you to eat more. Exercise is good for other reasons -- you need to do weight bearing exercise for your bones, for example.

Anyway, the truth is, if you eat only meat -- fish, meat, chicken -- you will not be fat and you will be quite healthy.

I exercise only 15 minutes a day, and when I was eating too much ice cream and too many cookies for a few weeks (my consumption being far less than the average person's -- takes me a week to go through a pint of Haagen-Dazs chocolate-chocolate chip) I ate only meat and eggs and fish for four days, and in four days, weighed what I did in high school. (Not that I'd turned into a porker or anything.) And I'm still that slim. I don't diet, and I do eat some carbs, but very, very few. And I find my head is clearer when I don't.

First, Ms. Perry is by no means obese.

Second, let's not be too self-righteous with the libertarian impulses... Doing nothing will not improve things at this point.

Put another way: The things we have done to society at this point will, if left to run without adjustment, not take care of these children. Agricultural policy is part of the problem: corn sweetener is cheap as shit. Zoning policies are part of the problem: it's cheaper open a chain burger stand than a family restaurant that serves good salads. Communications policy is part of the problem: it's easier to buy a flashy commercial for a burger joint than to explain to an uneducated child what trans fats are.

That's the world we've created. Having composed such a distorted environment, this may not be the perfect time to throw our hands and say “Human nature can solves this!” Ms. Perry deserves some credit for wanting to do something. Maybe she's Christian, and worries that God will ask why she didn't help these kids. I was raised to be a good little liberal, and I think we have responsibilities to people who can't care for themselves. Knowing that there are children out there whose guts are literally being crushed under their own weight --before they've reached freakin' puberty-- pushes all those buttons.

This is like education, though... Everything that we (liberals) could do to fix the problem involves having the parents do things better, or forcing parents to do things better. And we can't do that.

This is why liberalism is so goddamn boring. Quoting Gutfeld:

| Liberalism is based on one
| central desire: to look cool in
| front of others in order to get
| love. Preaching tolerance makes
| you look cooler, than saying
| something like, "please lower my
| taxes." This is why the only true
| form of rebellion left on this
| planet is conservatism.
| Conservatism, by rejecting the
| trademark forms of romantic
| rebellion (anarchy, activism,
| nipple rings) turns out to be far
| more subversive than anything on
| the planet.

First I'd like to point out that fiber is a carb and even Taubes recommends low-starch vegetables, which are high fiber. "And I find my head is clearer when I don't." Yeah me two hence I'm getting the book.

I'm not against dialing back the amount of fast food kids take in. I'm all for it I just don't see what this policy will do to help. Also the parents should take some responsibility. In restaurants one of the biggest appetite killer is the calorie count on the menu. Not like at McDs where it's on the package. A few weekends ago in NYC I went to an Applebee and I was starving. One look at the calorie count and wife and I just split a salad.

Unfortunately policies can back fire like the trans fat ban in NYC. Now backed goods had the be reformulated as there are some trans fats in dairy.

Protein. We need protein. A few years back I went on a modified Zone diet, as my friend was on it and was dropping fat like melted butter. I called mine modified because at the time I was a vegitarian. (Not the kind that cares what anyone else eats!! Not militant!!) I actually had to eat more food per meal than I had been to be on the Zone.. and guess what? Mostly had to add protein. and . and. LOST weight. 10 lbs in 2 weeks. She is on the diet again and feels great lost 20 lbs in just a few weeks. But it's all about the kinds of carbs.. and you must eat PROTEIN! Our bodies need it. really.

I believe it all comes down to what your body wants naturally. By naturally I mean what do you truly crave when you're hungry. Every person is slightly different. If you talk to thin people, not dieters, they all have preferences for certain foods.

Some people prefer mostly vegetables, others like an even combination of proteins and vegetables, while others, Amy being one, prefer mostly proteins. I prefer an even combination. If you stay within your body's natural needs, you should never have problems with weight. But the body, being the wonderful specimin it is, can be trained to prefer disgustingly unhealthy foods. If that's all you feed it, that's all it will want.

In essence, I don't think that Amy or Vlad is wrong in this instance. It's just good old common sense to eat what your body truly needs.

vlad: I believe Amy's comment about eliminating "carbohydrates from kids' diets" was an inexact statement that you are taking too literally.

It makes perfect sense that we not eat refined sugars and carbs. It's not what our ancestors ate.

Maybe in 10,000 years, if we haven't nuked ourselves to smithereens, humans will be able to process Big Macs and Cinnabons all day long and stay slim and healthy. But for now, we ought to eat the way our bodies need: mostly lean protein, fruits and veggies. Stuff that occurs NATURALLY! This, I feel, applies to all the preservatives they put in our food. I think that shit definitely contributes to obesity and overall unhealthiness.

I also cut down on dairy and my skin looks better than it has in a while.

Amy: I want to thank you for recommending Taubes' book, not just in this thread, but previously. Last year I read it based on your recommendation, and it changed my life.

I have been following some health and nutrition issues for years, and I long ago reached the conclusion there is something seriously wrong with our public health establishment. Taubes helped me understand just what has gone wrong, and showed me the problem is worse than I ever suspected. And he made a great case that, basically, Dr. Atkins was right.

I finally decided to go on a low carb diet, which I had not seriously considered in the past, since I believed it was unhealthy. I've lost 70 lb and put on muscle, my blood pressure has dropped by about 30 points, and I am more alert and energetic than, well, ever. I used to walk with a cane due to an inflammatory condition in my ankle, but that cleared up. And the bulk of the benefits appeared within a week, before I had time to lose a significant amount of weight. I gained considerable muscle power in the first week too, apparently do to improvements in my body chemistry.

I probably exercise less now than before I went on the diet. It is hard to work up the enthusiasm, since watching my carbs has gotten far more results than exercise ever did. I'm in the low-carb lifestyle for life.

So, thanks again Amy. And not just for this. I've learned other useful things from your blog and columns. And though you probably do not remember now, you once answered an email of mine. It was one of those deals where I knew what you would say, but I was not rational about it, and I just needed to hear it. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

Your work makes a difference.

That kind of diet may have worked for the Inuit, but I know I couldn't follow it. I live in American society, with access to American foods and cultural traditions surrounding those foods. I learned I can be a reasonable weight eating everything my friends and family eat, just not so damn much. I even eat fast food every once in awhile, and by that I mean once a month or so. People just don't know when to stop eating.

People just don't know when to stop eating.

Right before your pants explode.

Gah, I need to get back to my low-carb regimen. Have been feeling bloated and sluggish lately and I know it's because I've let breads and ice cream creep back in (in small portions, but daily so it's become habit). Thanks for getting me inspired to get back on track!

Oh, and I agree it's silly trying to blame fast foods. A lot of fast food places are trying to put healthier items on the menu, and if more people start making those choices, they'll continue.

"The big problems: the food we should be eating (lean meats, fruit and veggies, whole grain breads - all the healthy stuff around the edges of the supermarket) is becoming prohibitively"

The answer to this question, as well as to "where to find the highest concentration of hot moms and alterna-chicks," remains: Trader Joes

> remains: Trader Joes

aka Sodium Central.

(10mg Lisinopril daily, and thanks for asking.)

[News to me: "Like other ACE inhibitors, it is derived from the venom of the jararaca, a Brazilian pit viper (Bothrops jararaca)." That's what I get for calling all you people snakes the other day.]

Amy, I thought of you when I came across this item about flying next to someone so obese they asked first for one and then TWO seatbelt extensions...(scroll down to the second story)

here

"The answer to this question, as well as to "where to find the highest concentration of hot moms and alterna-chicks," remains: Trader Joes" Yes my experience to, Whole foods is just to militant for me.

I stop eating when I'm physically full. I hate feeling overfull. The clean plate club is stupid.

The problem for me was that I was raised to eat everything on my plate, so, as an adult, I had no real idea of when I was full. I would just keep going until everything was gone. Fortunately, my metabolism was good enough that I was never more than a little chubby, but I had to learn what a normal amount of food is. It took the fairly tedious approach of counting the calories in everything for about three months to get a handle on how much food is appropriate.

I don't know. Any diet that tells me I cant eat carrots or cantalope seems fishy. I eat less processed foods. The closer the food is to the way it occurs naturally on the planet, the better. I am making the move to raw milk products, for instance. I don't eat things with bleached stripped white flour. I try to avoid HFCS and sugar. But I like carbs. I like oats, I like a really toothy whole grain bread, I like corn tortillas, and some pastas. I also like meat.

I pork up (comparatively speaking) when I a) east too much, for days or weeks on end and b) when I am sedentary. When I am getting exercise regularly I feel better, more alert, less achy, etc etc. Plus, I don't get all out of breath when I have to climb stairs or things like that. Yes, if you exercise you eat more, because you're burning more calories. And I like to eat, so to me that's a good thing.

Anyone had Wendy's asian chicken salad? Get teh fat-free honey mustard instead of the insanely fatty and calorie-laden asian dressing, but it's a damn, damn good salad IMO. So, fast food makes us fat how??