I'm not sure why, must be traffic, but the link is really slow. It seems much faster when I went to youtube directly...

There is a really good documentary available on DVD right now, and on cable, called "Grass". It gives a good history of how the laws came into being...

Same here too. Very unusual for youtube

I actually find that sort of heartening, providing it's not just a glitch. I found this in the comments on Cato's blog -- I don't think of them as the next Fark of the web, but hey...maybe!

Interesting and I concur wholeheartedly. I've never understood what the difference is between a couple of joints or a couple of rum and coke except of course for the calorie count. I just know not to drive under the influence of either. Dope is much more a moral issue than a health one. And speaking from a law enforcement perspective I've never had to break up a fight between two dopers. Drinkers, on the other hand, all the time.

How is dope a moral issue?

It fucks people up

Crid, you have a more inclusive definintion of "morality" than I do. In my system, morality is not an issue until one person fucks up another. To fuck up oneself is a bad personal decision, perhaps, but not a moral one.

My perspective may be skewed by my experience, however. The only psychoactive substances I've taken for pleasure are alcohol and caffeine. On the medical side, I have welcomed the painkilling effects of codeine and synthetic opiods, but hated the numbing of the mind that accompanied them. If other people appreciate the mind-numbing (or other alteration) as much as I appreciated the body-numbing, who am I to say they are immoral?

I mean that a lot of people - certainly the bulk of the anti-marihuana camp - tend to see marihuana use as wholly "bad" or "evil" - from a moral standpoint (if it makes you feel good it MUST be bad) as opposed to a rational standpoint - without taking into consideration any of the possible benefits, or seeing the hypocrisy and irrationality of completing banning dope while allowing alcohol consumption.

Marihuana is like most things we ingest. It has good points and bad. Too much - like too much of anything - tends to negate any positive effects. Marihuana CAN fuck people up if overused. Prescription meds are generally beneficial, if used as directed, but too much can fuck you up. Too much beer, or sugar, or transfats can fuck you up.

People drink for all kinds of purposes. Dope smoking is all about inebriation.

Moderation is the key. For everything. Including the way people think about things. The rabid pot-haters need to tone it down a bit too. I smoked the "evil" weed for years. I will still indulge occasionally, at a concert or something. Couple of tokes, I'm good. More than that and you'd have to wheel me away on a hand truck. I perfer to walk away under my own power, thanks. So I make sure that I CAN. It's all about moderation, knowing your limits, and not abusing whatever it is you prefer. The substance itself isn't inherently evil, it's the intent of the user that makes the difference. Yet again, personal responsibility comes into play. If you can't control it, DON'T DO IT. As always, YMMV. o_O

> of course, they are Republicans

Eric. Homey. PUH-leeeze....

Listen, if grownups want to get buzzed in some moderate degree when their responsibilities are fulfilled, who's gonna argue? But I've seen a lot of personalities blunted (no pun intended) by regular, moderate use of this stuff. (In recent weeks I've had an experiences with a person at work who has that kind of listlessness... A timidity in office politics and a disinterest in excellence. The person is young enough that it's not just annoying, it's pathetic.)

Maybe a glass of wine every night has bad effects too, but they aren't as obvious. And of course, there's nothing in the world as obnoxious as a teenager with the stoner laugh.

And here in Earthquake country, you never know when you're going to want the people around you to be very, very alert.

>>Eric. Homey. PUH-leeeze....

I put that in just for you Criddy!

>>And here in Earthquake country, you never know when you're going to want the people around you to be very, very alert.

How's the ole blood pressure Crid?

>> A timidity in office politics and a disinterest in excellence.

Are you serious?

(Hey, it's a slow news day.)

> How's the ole blood pressure

Keeps me on my toes, if that's what you mean. But the doctor likes my numbers.

> Are you serious?

Yes. It's a "Hey man, let's keep things mellow and groovy" kind of response to events that doesn't improve the product. This person was getting on my nerves for three weeks, and I couldn't put my finger on it until the last day, and then it all came into focus... Aha! A stoner!

Of course alcoholics have their problems, too. When they're not flatly depressive they're mood-swingy, or worse. But again, it's not like anyone's asking us to choose between one or the other. The only people who demand we consider these habits in a comparison are the smokers. It's kinda like the people who affirm the righteousness of single motherhood by saying "What about when the father is a marauding sadist?" Well, sure, in that case....

Wow, this crid character sure knows a lot. People who drink aren't really doing for the buzz? Really? I guess they want to "be social", or "unwind", or "relax". None of those describe being buzzed, like, at all.
I like that whole mellow and groovy thing too. Pot smokers definitely use words like that regularly. Blanket statements are awesome. They cover everyone, because everyone is the same. I'm sure he knows exactly what he's talking about.

Thanks, Abby, luvyaback!

>Blanket statements are awesome.

Verily, some truths are general.

Anybody ever meet a "social" dope smoker?

Everybody has met a "social dope smoker", since it's the most widely used drug in the U.S., so statistically, it just makes sense that they have. Even at the country club, or at church, and not just at burning man. It's obviously not something people are going to advertise about themselves in certain company due to statements exactly like yours. Those reefer madness lines of thought are also what helps keeps it illegal. Not everyone at the grateful dead show smokes pot, and not everyone who smokes pot likes the dead.

That stoner kid at work is just as bad as someone who comes to work drunk. If it's affecting his job, fire his ass.

I see you decided to expand on the topic Amy. Unhappily I couldn't get audible playback. Green & White had a note ( I'll have the link posted next issue ) that Internet connectivity was being affected by a broken junction. Grief with net use is common right now.

I came across a report of Sitemeter affecting IE just after posting. Then again, I'm not using IE ( Firefox on Ubuntu ) and am still slow.
http://www.inquisitr.com/2097/site-meter-causing-internet-explorer-failure/

One huge difference between pot and alcohol: one you smoke, one you drink. Yes, it matters. I choose not to partake of either. The one you're drinking does not enter into my body if you're drinking around me; but the one you're smoking...

This is soley why I prefer keeping prohibition. My one and only reason. I don't really care if you're wanted to be a wasteoid. Your biz. But I have enough pot smoke foisted on me if I go to a concert or a street fair without having to have it foisted on me at the bus stop because it's legal.

And, please, don't start with the old, tired argument saying there could be laws governing it similar to the open container laws. Yeah, sure. But the wino drinking from the paper bag, again, while unpleasant, is not pouring his rot down my throat. The hippy toking is putting his shit in the very air I'm breathing.

And, yes, I would like to extend the no-smoking ordinances to bus stops. Not that it'd be enforced.

Oh, and I really can't help but wonder how stoned they were when they made this video.

This is an old interview I've heard about before but never seen the video of. Mr. Friedman certainly sounds intelligent but they kept lowering the volume to pop-up some freaking annoying caption and the quotes were mostly not even what he was saying. Not exactly effective for the message they were trying to get across.

They should have let him talk without that interruption because, user or not (and I don't know if he was), he was very coherent and intelligent but they were so stoned they were screwing with his rather persuasive arguments for legalization.

I think the sentences should be less and I'd be for legalization if not for the point I make above.

Abby, I think you missed the concept

Well criddy, maybe I have.

We have you who said people don't really drink because of the main effect alcohol has on their bodies, and another who's terrified to catch a whiff of deluted marijuana smoke next to the exhaust pipe of a bus.

You guys win.

At least the word "waisteoid" is now part of the lexicon.

> you who said people don't really
> drink because of the main effect
> alcohol has on their bodies

I said that?

abberant, you must be stoned.

Either that or you don't take buses.

I'm not talking about a whiff while also breathing in a exhaust. Hello? Penetrate the fog. If the bus was there, I'm getting the fuck on it and away from the joint.

I'm talking about some hippy-dippy asshole who tokes up near me while we are both waiting for a bus. Just mellow out, man, is the typical reaction to do you mind? I am frankly not all that impressed that the irritating assholes don't get into fights while they disregard your feelings because, man, you're being a drag and bringing them down. Yes, I have called the cops on just such assholes. Denver they came right out; New York, I think they just laughed at me after they hung up. Assholes. Do your job. Which would be enforcing the law whether you agree with it or not.

Again, penetrate the fog. Are you so bemuddled that it can't get through that my point was you light up a joint, the smoke doesn't stay to yourself whereas if you drink, it only enters your own body.

Besides, Crid does make some good points about weed. Wasteoid has entered our language because it's an apt description of those who toke up and don't keep it under control. If you must toke up, keep it to yourself in your home, not on the street with me.

As Amy's fond of saying, your rights end when your fist (or in this case, your heinous smoke) connects with my face.