Palin By Comparison
I can't vote for Obama, who's a socialist and all "nukes are mean!" For me, it's McCain...most grudgingly. Then again, I figured he'd play it conservative, or at least mildly sensible, in picking a VP.
And now, what if McCain, a cancer survivor who'd be the oldest guy ever inaugurated as president, keels over in office or gets seriously ill? We'll have a woman in the presidency who basically has, for a short time, run a state with the population of Massachusetts fishing village. Okay, okay...to be fair, with a state population of 670,000, Alaska's actually just a little smaller than San Francisco.
But, now, it's not just Sarah Palin, from hockey mom to governor, it's Sarah Palin, from hockey mom maybe to leader of the free world. And whoops, she has five children: "Hold on, Mr. Putin. Dolly's got a booboo!"
Yet, here we go, with people on the right falling all over themselves to find this choice acceptable ("Love the one you're with," I believe it's called). Stephanie Simon writes for the WSJ:
Ms. Palin's decision to accept the nomination for vice president just four months after the birth of her disabled son gave pause to a few conservatives. But just for a moment."If I were her pastor, I'd be very concerned for her and her family," Mr. Mohler said. "But it looks as though she's found a way to integrate it all in a way that works."
"It's a mixed blessing, because she has a young child," said Mark Liederbach, a Christian ethicist and strong supporter of traditional family roles. "There's a little bit of concern... but she has older children who can help out."
Others on the right say it's sexist to suggest a woman can't raise a family and work -- or seek high political office, or serve as commander in chief, if the need arises. "She's more the example of the modern woman than the Gloria Steinems of days past," said Jill Stanek, a conservative blogger popular with the pro-life community. "She can handle it."
Meanwhile, during a press event she had to change the baby's diaper. Here, from People, by Sandra Sobieraj Westfall, on "Shattering The Glass Ceiling":
Sarah Palin, in ruby red peep-toe platform heels that showed off a pink French-style pedicure, first ducked into a holding room to change the diaper of her just-up-from-a-nap 4 1/2-month-old son, Trig.SARAH PALIN: Morning person. Yup. We don't sleep much. Too much to do. What I've had to do, though, is in the middle of the night, put down the BlackBerries and pick up the breast pump. Do a couple of things different and still get it all done.
As a new mom, how are you going to juggle all this?
SARAH: I am thankful to be married to a man who loves being a dad as much as I love being a mom, so he is my strength. And practically speaking, we have a great network of help with lots of grandparents and aunties and uncles all around us. We have a lot of help.
Oh, goody. Sorry to disappoint all you righties looking for a rubberstamp for Mrs. Palin (like all the sickening examples of this all over the damn place), but in a V.P. candidate, if we had a female, I was looking for something a little more...barren. Battle-ax-ish. Thatcheresque. At least somebody with high-functioning 20-somethings who are off smoking pot in college somewhere.
Meanwhile, there's this, from Sean Cockerham and Wesley Loy in the Anchorage Daily News:
(Alaska) State Senate President Lyda Green said she thought it was a joke when someone called her at 6 a.m. to give her the news."She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president?" said Green, a Republican from Palin's hometown of Wasilla. "Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"
Now, maybe that's just mean-spirited sniping. Any Alaskans like to weigh in?
I'm guessing it was a huge deal that she's pro-life -- and perhaps the fact that she's a woman was a desperate shot to snare those Hillary-supporting vote-your-vagina ladies. Yeah, I'm sure they'll all be right over. Or might've if McCain had picked Kay Bailey Hutchison, or somebody pro-choice. And come on, with KBH, do you think the ladies and gents on the right would really break for Obama?
And hey, a pro-life V.P. -- that's what's really important to Putin and Ahmadinejad. Yes, if McCain drops and she becomes president, Ahmadinejad'll surely be thinking, "Ooh, yeah. Now we're scared. Now we'll stop our naughty behavior, listen to mommy, and all sing kumbayah."
Meanwhile, McCain has, in one fell V.P.-picking swoop, managed to make the issue of the inexperienced Obama a non-issue: "Come aboard, voters! I hired a woman! And besides the pro-life bone I'm throwing to all you religious nutters, she's a hottie, and shoots moose...and that's all you need to know! (MILF, anyone?!)"
McCain, most disturbingly, played the gambler. Or he's just an old fool. Or he's exhibiting yet another rash McCain decision. Or believes his own P.R. -- McCain, the maverick -- and is trying to live up to it. Or all of the above. This, remember, is a lady he met once before he brought her down to Sedona.
Of course, it helps to remember that McCain, as Matt Welch wrote in his excellent book, McCain: The Myth of a Maverick, is at his personal best when he feels like the underdog. Is this what this is?
On a side note, I know the V.P. isn't in charge of science education in this country, but all we need is another nutter at the top. Here, from Tom Kizzia, in the Anchorage Daily News:
The volatile issue of teaching creation science in public schools popped up in the Alaska governor's race this week when Republican Sarah Palin said she thinks creationism should be taught alongside evolution in the state's public classrooms.
A comment left below the story:
Palin is bimbo babe
God help this country if Palin is elected. Science will go out the window. Before long we'll be making knock-offs of China's technology instead of the other way around.
Reason's Mike Rigg found this list on Yahoo:
45: number of months Sarah Palin has been pregnant
20: number of months Sarah Palin has been governor9,000: population of Wasilla, AK the town of which Palin was mayor
15,000: the number of people at the rally announcing her nomination as VP7: number of people in the Palin family
7: number of houses John and Cindy McCain own72: years that John McCain has been alive
49: years that Alaska has been a state1: number of times McCain and Palin had met before today
20 million: the number of dollars that the city of Wasilla was left in debt when Palin's term as mayor endedWhen John McCain started his campaign, Sarah Palin was not yet governor of Alaska.
John McCain left both his first wife and Mitt Romney for beauty queens.
One of the few "real" ones, Brookhiser at NRO, writes:
The Palin pick shows a low opinion of the vice presidency, and it shows conservatives in a bad light.1. The Vice Presidency. Either McCain thinks the war on terror isn't serious, or he thinks the vice-presidency isn't. Since the former is obviously untrue, it must be the latter. McCain is certainly following a very old conception of the job. One nineteenth century veep was reputedly so underutilized that he kept a tavern in his home state. But that is not our conception. Vice Presidents have grown in clout and responsibility. In the last fifty years, four former vice presidents have run for president (Nixon, Mondale, elder Bush, Gore), two of them successfully, while since Carter/Mondale, veeps have been given more and more to do. McCain, bless him, intends to do everything himself. Good luck! Perhaps the Palin pick is a sly diss both of Obama/Biden and Bush/Cheney. Palin will go to funerals.
2. Conservatives. Palin will also be assigned to pacify conservatives. On the evidence of the numerous emails reprinted here, that will be easily done. Reader after reader said that the base was now energized. You would have thought the base was energized by being in a war. If not, perhaps we need a new base. We have shown the same color-by-numbers mindset that liberals did when they rallied to Obama. Liberals love Obama because he is a Numinous Negro. Conservatives love Palin because she has a Downs baby and an M-16. For both sides, that is all on earth ye know and all ye need to know. You might call it mystical and childish.
May I be so wrong that a hundred harpies will pluck my eyeballs.
Now who do I vote for...Bob Barr? (Sigh...no Barr fan, either.) Anybody got a write-in?
Teddy Roosevelt was a governor for less than two years and became prez at 40.
Just sayin.....
mbruce at August 31, 2008 12:19 AM
Breeders, huh?
Her oldest isn't off smoking pot in college somewhere. Just deploying to Iraq in a couple of weeks.
Jim Treacher at August 31, 2008 12:37 AM
Before whining about Palin so-called lack of experience, we can check what she's bringing in on the McCain ticket:
She's pro-creationism without being overtly religious. She's looking like someone with an opinion instead of a religious nutcase. Please take note that I am using the term "Looking".
She's a card member of the NRA. It looks like nothing at first but those guys will not skip a chance to put one of their own on the VP seat. This go without saying that a solid 2 million voter block goes to McCain now.
She's the perfect Pro-Life sponsor. Not only she's a convert to the Pro-Life Mantra (No abortion ever, even in case of rape), she walked the walk by not aborting her last son who got the down syndrome while she could. Even as a Pro-Choice, I have only respect for those who act on their conviction. Since the Pro-Life lobby is strong, it is more votes for McCain.
On the issue of war, she's armored since her own son will serve in Iraq in the upcoming September. This "Michael Moore"-proof her.
On top of that, she's a woman. Any feminist out there who felt wronged by the attitude of the Dems towards Hillary got another good excuse to vote republican.
So, even if she's there as a cheerleader, Palin will give a solid boost to the republicans.
Toubrouk at August 31, 2008 12:41 AM
P.S.
Meanwhile, McCain has, in one fell V.P.-picking swoop, managed to make the issue of the inexperienced Obama a non-issue
How so? Seems to me McCain's forcing Obama to point out that he's every bit as qualified to be vice president as Palin is.
Jim Treacher at August 31, 2008 12:42 AM
And come on, with KBH, do you think the ladies and gents on the right would really break for Obama?
Given that she's typically seen as a semi-RINO, I think there's at least a possibility that they'd stay home or vote for Bob Barr. Plus, the word around her home state is that KBH wants to be governor. Really wants to be governor. REALLY wants to be governor. And she will probably have a cakewalk of an election to that role in 2010. Also, she doesn't pass your kid test, Amy - she's got two (adopted) seven-year-old kids. I'd actually bet that she'd end up spending more time with them as a VP than Palin would with her fifth child - she's raised four babies already and her husband will presumably need something to do if he's taken away from oilfield services and fishing. (I know that this post wasn't really about KBH - just throwing in some local context.)
Palin is about the only female politician out there in any sort of major national role who's anti-abortion. KBH is ostensibly pro-Roe v. Wade, for example. McCain floated a trial balloon with the conservative base about picking a pro-choice VP candidate, and got shot down. Based on various reactions in the conservative blogosphere and elsewhere (Rush Limbaugh, for example), the conservative base appears to love Palin, to the tune of almost $4.5 million being raised by the McCain campaign on Friday alone. Now, you're not a member of the conservative base, and appealing to the conservative base is not the same thing as appealing to independent voters, but she does appear to have done that for McCain. (And yes, he certainly didn't HAVE to pick a woman...but by doing so he shook things up. Whether or not the shaking-up will be a net positive has yet to be seen.)
Thing is....I'm not sure who else he could have picked, really. Bobby Jindahl wasn't going to leave Louisiana this soon, and most of the other possibilities (Romney, Huckabee, Giuliani, Lieberman, Kasich, Portman) had major issues. McCain could have gone with Pawlenty, who is more experienced than Palin, but I guarantee you that, if he had, the Obama acceptance speech would still be a major topic of political discussion, rather than being pushed aside almost completely within 10 hours. If I'm forgetting someone significant - someone who could theoretically have had a major impact in the short term and filled in some gaps for McCain - I'd love to hear suggestions. Rick Brookhiser was asked the same question at The Corner and has yet to answer. I think that Bobby Jindahl would unquestionably have been the nominee had he been elected governor of Louisiana in 2003 and if a giant storm weren't currently aiming straight for that state, but you go into a presidential race with the reality you have.
marion at August 31, 2008 12:46 AM
One more thing....I think Palin's at least as qualified to be President as John Edwards was at this point in the campaign in 2004. And yes, he got eaten alive by Cheney in the debate, so many eyes will be on Biden-Palin when it rolls around.
One thing to keep in mind, Amy, is that you (and I) are more or less of the mindset of, "I don't care if the candidate is rich as long as he/she understands economics and won't throw my money away on wasteful projects - in fact, rich people often get that way through superior understanding of business and economics, so wealth can be a plus in a candidate." We are not necessarily typical in this mindset. I don't think Americans are nearly as anti-wealth as, say, Europeans, but resentment can rear its head, especially when the economy's not going like gangbusters. I think the Palin pick was meant to address that issue, at least in part - she's blue-collar, ditched the governor's private jet when she got elected, is married to a guy who makes his living with his hands, etc. etc. I can see that playing with some undecided voters. To what degree is another question, of course. That's not going to matter to you, think, but it will matter to some. Just a thought...
marion at August 31, 2008 1:12 AM
Heather MacDonald expresses my problem with McCain's pick.
Now, if I have a female type that I go for, it's definitely the Naughty Librarian. Drives me crazy. Amy could do a column on how crazy lustful it makes me. I sometimes even go against my principles and buy Naughty Librarians orange drinks to tempt them into conversation and then into my bed. (I usually work it the other way around.)
Palin's kinda' hot that way, and I think she'd be fine sipping a fizzy orange drink or pretending I'm a snowmobile and racing about my apartment.
But second in line for the Pres? Nope. This was pandering. I hate that.
Jeff at August 31, 2008 1:18 AM
Oh yeah, Heather Mac Donald, I'd buy her an orange drink, too.
Jeff at August 31, 2008 1:21 AM
Yesterday (Friday), Prager said she's "the new Thatcher". He used those words. It's not true.
Someone already stole the joke about a VPILF. Wished I'd been first.
Miscellaneous fun things from blogs today:
• She's got more executive experience than anyone else on either ticket.
• Althouse chose to compare Alaska to Fort Worth, population-wise. It's gotta be closer to FW than to San Francisco politically.
• She's against gay marriage. (Hi, Amy!)
• She done much to end discrimination against gay partnerships. (Hi, Amy!)
• Someone pointed out that she's been governor of a state that bordered the former Soviet Fucking Union... How's that for foreign policy experience, Barry?
• Someone else pointed out that if Biden calls her "sweety" or something during the debates, Hillary's voters will cross like a bolt of lightning.
• She's a stone fox who married her high school sweetheart. The whole fucking family is criminally photogenic. These are great looking white people. It's probably the fresh air. I've heard they make the little girl go out with a fishing pole to catch salmon for breakfast before she gets ready for school.
Excepting Amy, I think all the people who complain that she's not fit to be president are old coots. That doesn't mean they're wrong, but they're still old coots. I don't think any course of experience can prepare people for that office.
So, while recognizing that she's not Thatcher, I'd credit this to McCain's sense of daring more than to recklessness. He's not planning to die, and the actuarial tables say he won't. He's hiring a Vice President, and this is a fascinating choice.
Took the wind out of Obama's sails, as Paglia noted.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at August 31, 2008 1:34 AM
> he has just ensured that
> the diversity racket will be
> an essential component of
> presidential politics
I loves me some Heather Mac, but that's silly. Would Obama be nominated if he were white? Isn't the voltage of his skin color a big part of his power?
Listen, other colors and genders and preferences are going to happen in politics no matter what. This isn't about "diversity", it's about the continuing erosion of boundaries to achievement that had confounded everyone in the culture but white guys.
You can complain about this if you want to, but you sound silly doing it, and you can only do it once. Go ahead, get it out of your system... Then relax and enjoy the 21st century in America.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at August 31, 2008 1:43 AM
PS- I'll never remember where, but one of the blogs today noted that the Anchorage paper, or whatever the big one is up thar, is an essentially Marxist/Stalinist enterprise. The person had worked there and promised that bad things were going to be said about Palin from that newsroom, and that we shouldn't panic.
Never read that paper, m'self.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at August 31, 2008 2:07 AM
Well, I grew up in Alaska. My dad was stationed at Ft. Wainwright, and retired from the Army in AK so that he could hunt and fish and climb mountains. I am absolutely thrilled that Sarah Palin was picked. I am also disgusted by all the "Alaska bashing" in the media, although not really surprised.
Now, I haven't been living in Alaska since Sarah was elected governor, but I do visit. And, anecdotally and statistically, Sarah Palin is loved in Alaska. She is perceived as a strong fiscal conservative, an ethical leader, and "just folks" which accounts for her popularity. She will bring personal expertise to energy policy. Although she is viewed as a "drill oil everywhere" partisan, she has actually been battling Big Oil in Alaska, and for that she has my respect.
As for attracting Hillary supporters, I invite you to have a look at this forum: http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26179
This forum is not officially associated with the Clinton campaign, but, unless they are all sockpuppets, it seems like many Clinton supporters are very happy with the Palin pick.
Personally speaking, this choice has really made me interested in the election for the first time. But as a fiscally conservative, pro-gun, Alaskan woman, this is not surprising. I am a priori opposed to her positions on abortion and creationism, and am looking forward to how she deals with these issues in the debates.
liz at August 31, 2008 3:15 AM
Brilliant Steyn.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at August 31, 2008 4:33 AM
Actually, McCain's pick was a very calculated and excellent strategic move. It has effectively eclipsed the publicity surrounding Obama's latest speech, sending it to the back of the front section in newspapers.
I'm rather liking this election process. The candidates both suck, albeit McCain less so, but at the very least, we haven't seen the despicable tactics of Karl Rove this time around, such as the Swift Boat Liars and the really disgusting tactic he employed against Mark Kennedy: the whisper campaign that Kennedy, a staunch defender of children, was actually a child molester.
As for the complaints about Palin's lack of experience, at least she has had some executive experience, which is more than Obama can say.
Patrick at August 31, 2008 4:55 AM
Amy, what does her having children, 5 or 1 or 15, have to do with her ability to be Vice
President, or even President? How many Presidents have we had that DIDN'T have kids?
She has a pretty impressive track record in her short time of executive experience. She took on some tough issues (Oil company's profits, corruption)successfully. I'd say someone with her ability to handle those issues would be an asset in the white house.
Most Presidents don't have great grasps on foreign policy. They rely on advisers. Just like they do for every other issue. Anyone who thinks our Presidents have been experts on economy and foreign policy and health care and taxation and every other topic a President has to deal with are fooling themselves. Advisers tell the President what to do about X, and it's done. You hope your President is smart enough to find good advisors, and think through the recommendations first.
Your absolute refusal to allow moms to be anything but moms, or intelligent in any way, is showing through in this post quite badly. There is no reason her husband can't or won't parent these kids. Sometimes I see some sexism-or maybe it's momism- in you. It's like you want to validate your choice to not have kids by refusing to allow any moms to do anything but have and raise kids.
I am pretty anti-daycare, but I don't think the mom is the one who has to raise them. Dads can and do raise kids while mommy is the careerist.
And I'm very glad she's willing to say it's wrong to kill a kid, no matter the reason. I don't care how pro-choice you are (how about being pro-responsibility to not get preggers in the first place, or pro-choosing to use birth control? You want women to be equals, but then say they can't be responsible enough to keep themselves from getting pregnant. Talk about infantalizing women!) you can not think that abortions are a good thing. They aren't. They are ending a life. I wish all the rabid pro-choicers would show a little initiative to do something to lessen the # needed. AT least the religion nuts are TRYING by teaching abstinence. Even if they are failing miserably, they are trying.
Even in Roe V Wade is overturned, abortions will not be illegal. It will go back to being a state's decision. Why are people so frantic about that?
I'd love to know how Alaskan's (or, that one alaskan) think she's messed up alaska. Basides swelling their treasury, that is. The country could use some of that.
momof3 at August 31, 2008 5:47 AM
Sorry Amy, on this one we totally disagree. I will be voting for McCain now because he picked Palin. I'm not surprised that you have a problem with the religious/pro-life thing. But if I see one more person criticizing Palin for having CHILDREN I'm going to puke. If she was a single mother, I would say she has no business running for any kind of office. But why can't her husband take care of the kids? Why would it be ok for a father of 5 kids to be vice president?
Oh and by the way, I think one of the reasons she was picked was to force the Democratic party to display some delicious hypocrisy. She's not qualified? She's an affirmative action candidate? Any Democrat that says these things has just pointed the same things out about Obama.
Karen at August 31, 2008 5:54 AM
momof3, you said it better than I did!
Karen at August 31, 2008 6:07 AM
M3 & K are right (Hell, Patrick's right too)...
But motherhood is a special human condition, especially to kids. This is a family that obviously has this stuff under control, and there's nothing about her fecundity that would interfere with my voting for her, and of course men in government throughout history have given their kids short shrift: But Amy's not a primitive from another century for considering the question.
Put another way:
> Dads can and do raise
> kids while mommy is
> the careerist.
The urge to loving, attentive parenthood is not as naturally present in the men in young families as it is the women. Just ain't. There'd be more SP's in the world if it were.
Considering the tone on the blogs over the last 12 hours, this selection is starting to look like a masterstroke.
Anyone remember Quayle's first appearance with GHW Bush? I'll never forget it; he was squeaking and waving his arms like a Pepsi-addled teenager, and you could read the look on Bush's face: "Oh fuck, what have I done?"
Palin very definitely did NOT do that on Friday.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at August 31, 2008 6:16 AM
Now, I know that Amy does not support single motherhood, whether it be the case of poor, uneducated women's "fate" or as the lifestyle choice of wealthy women. I agree, primarily because it tends to breed neglected or entitled children.
However, I think that devoting your time to public service is an exception. Especially in the case of Palin. I don't get the impression that she is chucking her family for personal ambition. She strikes me as a conservative populist, who wants to serve The People. I think that is a great example for her family. But, then again, I believe in "citizen" politicians. I haven't seen anything that makes me believe that her children will suffer if she is elected VP. Except for having to be in the public eye.
But again, as an Alaskan (abroad), I am so proud of my home state, that perhaps my objectivity is not at its best. :)
liz at August 31, 2008 6:50 AM
Just checking. Would being governor of Wyoming or Rhode Island disqualify you just because the population was small?
Think, "Gray Davis". The biggest, most important state economy would then automatically make any California governor Presidential material, right?
Radwaste at August 31, 2008 7:13 AM
How can you even conceive of voting for McCain? His party has bankrupt America, both fiscally and morally, and destroyed the United States' image throughout the world. I cannot understand how someone who is socially progressive can vote for a party that endorses creationism, abhors gay rights, and wants to ban abortion. And McCain has a legendary temper - not the type of person I want in charge of our nukes and military (to say nothing about how he graduated last in his navy class, or earned none of his personal wealth). Remind you of any recent presidents?
Andrew at August 31, 2008 7:23 AM
There is no reason her husband can't or won't parent these kids.
Dads actually make excellent nurturers (per anthropologist Sarah Hrdy's work -- see Mother Nature: Maternal Instincts and How They Shape the Human Species), but the fact remains, the breast milk comes out of her boobs, and this is a woman with a disabled baby. I want a VP who's pretty free of family distractions.
Andrew, I loath both people running. I'm voting for the one least likely to be dove-ish in response to dangers from the Islamists and the one least likely to turn our health care into the mess that is health care in the U.K.
I voted for Kerry in the last election because I couldn't vote for, as I called him, the "fundamentalist, anti-science" George Bush, but the issue with the danger from terrorists and Obama's nutty desire to stop nukes just as so many countries are amassing them, is too much for me. Also, Obama's a sleazebag just like most politicians, and sat all cozy at Wright's church, etc. See the next blog item down. Many of his supporters like him because he's been turned into a rock star. If it were a white Republican who got his house the way Obama did, and sat in a church of some white guy who spewed racism and lies about blacks the way Wright does about whites, he'd be running with Lyndon LaRouche, and get 35 votes.
Amy Alkon at August 31, 2008 8:20 AM
But motherhood is a special human condition, especially to kids. This is a family that obviously has this stuff under control, and there's nothing about her fecundity that would interfere with my voting for her, and of course men in government throughout history have given their kids short shrift: But Amy's not a primitive from another century for considering the question.
I agree. And if her husband were, say, CEO of a large company or a scientist involved in a multi-year time-drain of a project, I might worry about the kid. But her husband, while certainly a worthy man, is primarily involved in activities that 1) he can leave for several years and then return to and 2) aren't really possible to do in DC. Unless they're going to have a commuter marriage, which I doubt, he has plenty of time to be the primary parent for the kids who are still at home, as I'm guessing he is now. Plus, Palin's got parents, siblings etc. who apparently help out now and will continue to do so, and she'll have a staff who can handle things such as middle-of-the-night illnesses, diaper changes, etc. I think the Palin kids, like Natalie Lileks, will be fine no matter where their mother ends up.
I admit it: I have a weakness for women who actually do things rather than blathering on about the need for "female empowerment." She took on a sitting governor and her state's entrenched political culture and came out on top; plus, she actually seems to understand something about energy. That doesn't mean that she's automatically the candidate for everyone, but she's not a bad face to have for the female politicians of the U.S. And yes, I would like to be at a point where a politician's gender wasn't significant in how people viewed that politician, but I don't think we're there yet. I think she's smarter than John Edwards, and I don't seem to remember absolute terror over his inexperience when he was picked as Kerry's VP candidate. This isn't to say that the creationism and abortion stuff doesn't matter, or that she's the right candidate for you, Amy, but I don't think she's an objectively inappropriate choice. YMMV.
marion at August 31, 2008 8:25 AM
I have a weakness for women who actually do things rather than blathering on about the need for "female empowerment."
I'm totally there with you, marion, and I love that she's governor of Alaska. But, she isn't qualified to be president, and while I love the chick-flick idea that a young, beautiful, moose-shooting Alaskan mother of five could successfully run our country and make foreign policy if the coot kicks the bucket, I'd really rather not chance it.
Amy Alkon at August 31, 2008 8:31 AM
Watching her speak, I can't help but flash back to Laura Dern's portrayal of Katherine Harris in HBO's "Recount."
deja pseu at August 31, 2008 8:36 AM
Amy, one reason I enjoy coming here so much, even when I disagree with you, is your unwillingness to support a person or a cause based on personal stories and "central casting" qualifications, so I promise that I wasn't suggesting that you could or should vote for her based on her tough-girl persona.
However, as you've said many times, you voted for Kerry in 2004. Can you really tell me that John Edwards was really more qualified to be President when he was selected as VP than Palin is now? Being mayor of a small town may not be the same as serving in the Senate, but I think it prepares one for large-scale governing much better than being a malpractice lawyer. Edwards also had two small children in 2004. Now, his wife was a full-time parent, but we've seen no sign that Todd Palin isn't going to be one as well. By what you've written here, Edwards would seem to be unworthy of your vote as well in terms of qualifications to be President, and yet, you voted for Kerry.
Now, I'm well aware that you agree with Edwards more on issues such as abortion and creationism than you do with Palin, but when I think of someone being qualified to be President, I think of being able to stare down the Russians and nominate intelligent Fed candidates rather than having a tendency to vote certain ways on certain issues. Put it another way: You disagree with John McCain on various topics, but I've not seen you argue that those disagreements make him unqualified to be President.
Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult - just taking this out to the logical extreme to see what you'll say. I didn't think you'd be crazy about an anti-abortion candidate who's open to creationism, but this is one of the few places that I think can have an intelligent discussion about what it means to be "qualified to be President."
I think part of my irritation at the general reaction to Palin is summed up in my response to something Andrew Sullivan wrote: "America is at war with lethal enemies and McCain gave us a 44-year-old former beauty queen." Well, that's true, but America is at war with lethal enemies and Andrew is enthusiastically supporting a 40something former community organizer and pal of a domestic terrorist who thinks we just haven't tried hard enough to understand Iran. I'm not sure that Palin is up to staring down the Russians at this point in time, but from what I can tell, when Obama was faced with the possibility of one day having to do so, he panicked and picked a blowhard VP candidate who's been unsuccessfully running for President for 20 years. If you want to avoid the possibility that an upcoming President will have to learn on the job to a drastic degree completely, you're going to have to start at the beginning and redo this whole election.
marion at August 31, 2008 9:12 AM
couldn't agree more with the reference to Dern's portrayal of Harris's "Recount"
I'm with you there.
Internationalhardman at August 31, 2008 9:15 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2008/08/31/palin.html#comment-1586178">comment from marionMarion, I think you bring up good points. You're not being difficult, you're right to ask these questions. I voted for Kerry while hating to do it with every fiber in me. My issue here is not one of comparision. I admire her for what she's done -- that she seems to be a candidate of action -- but I think that McCain could've given her a cabinet post and chosen somebody with more experience for V.P.
Amy Alkon at August 31, 2008 9:21 AM
Well, maybe everyone should check out Palin's CV, and watch her public appearances (YouTube would be a start). You know, like figure out her caliber, instead of saying that she is in her forties and has five kids. Great argument, Amy.
As far I am concerned, she is the only person running who understands the concept of public service.
Oh noes!!! Too hard. Fail. Bullshit. Lazy. Crap.
liz at August 31, 2008 9:32 AM
Yes!!! There's an excellent new party (New American Independent Party,) that's getting basically NO press, and here's their Presidential nominee's stance on the issues:
http://frankforpresident.org/ISSUES.htm
Seriously? I weep for the fact that nobody knows about this guy and his party, and that nobody I tell about it wants to vote for him. Way to perpetuate this shitty duopoly!
Kim at August 31, 2008 9:43 AM
Amy,
Give Palin a chance; she is under the national microscope now. If you don't like how she holds up under the scrutiny of the coming weeks, by all means, waist your vote on Bob Barr. Your assessment of her is premature, or have you been analyzing her potential candidacy for months?
Ken at August 31, 2008 10:16 AM
Um...Amy, you might want to note that Lyda Green isn't exactly a disinterested party, given the fact that she's "choosing to resign" after a) being linked to the VECO scandal that's wrapping around Ted Stevens and b) having polls show that she's going to get her butt kicked in the fall election.
In other words, she's one of the corrupt Republicans that Palin's entire political career has revolved around destroying.
North Dallas Thirty at August 31, 2008 10:19 AM
"44-year-old beauty queen." As if Obama's succeeded despite a lack of looks and charm.
Sullivan also had a good laugh over the "fact" that two of her kids are named Willow and Piper. "She named her daughters after TV witches!" Neat trick, considering Willow was born 2-3 years before Buffy the Vampire Slayer premiered. Sullivan is a dope.
Jim Treacher at August 31, 2008 10:21 AM
I think McCain's choice was actually brilliant. Cynical, but brilliant.
This way, any Republicans or independents that were attracted by Obama's "We're making history here" meme, can participate in history of their own.
Palin has no political coat-tails, mentors, connections. While that might be bad, Hillary had all of those, and look where it got her.
Anyone who attacks her lack of experience has to swallow Obama's lack of same.
If Biden's supposed to be Obama's fount of experience, two words: Dick Cheney.
Al Gore had grown up in DC, around power. Fat lot of good it did him as VP. He could have had a day job.
Her non-name brand education, beauty pageant stuff, mom of 5 is as non-elitist as it can be, and takes the curse of McCain's zillions of wifely $$.
Rachel Cohen at August 31, 2008 10:24 AM
You asked for an Alaskan's opinion on the matter, I'll give you my sister's and her husband's opinions in an email from her two days ago. Her husband was born in Alaska, they met at U of Mich and moved back up to AK about 20 years ago. Does that qualify them? I don't agree with her on all points, but I respect her opinion because as a conservative, she doesn't always rubber stamp her vote, she pays attention to the details and will call someone out. ***please note that I said this my sister's opinion and not mine!*** I've noticed alot of people skimming through and not reading comments entirely, mixing things up and addressing the wrong people in the wrong context.
" Governor Palin is a YOUNG woman who will garner the female vote most assuredly for John McCain, especially because she did NOT give in to Playboy's request to pose nude.....of course, at the time she was six months pregnant and NO ONE in Alaska even knew she was pregnant...wait, that's my perspective....
John's is this: McCain made a stupid choice because Palin has NO international experience and he was actually hoping McCain would pick Condoleeza Rice, as were most of us.
She bankrupted Wasilla while she was the mayor there and was bailed out by friends. As far as we know, VP's have no friends.
John states, "I am still speechless at the decision" and we'll provide updates as we go along. Of interest, she DID in fact utilize her "power" to fire her sister's ex husband from a high ranking post with the State of Alaska, then turned around and blamed someone else...but come on....it was her sister. Lots of ummm DRAMA in Alaska now.
I cc'd all you other folks since we Alaskans have an inside track.
John also says, "C" Students rule....Palin was NOT a successful academic and he laments the fact that Rice wasn't chosen. John considers Rice an academic and Palin, "just in the right place at the right time."
Of note also, Palin's newborn has Down Syndrome and most Alaskan MOM's feel she should have stayed at home instead of hiring a nanny....but yanno...most Alaskan moms are a BIT conservative....Feminism aside and all that shit.
She does speak clearly, but after 8 years of Bush, so does Marlee Matlin.
juliana at August 31, 2008 10:29 AM
I'm enjoying watching all the trendy lefties squirm and try to sling mud at her choices in naming children, leisure time activities, and a bunch of other class-linked details.
Is she the only woman holding elected office who entered pageants? As we all know, the Miss America pageant is the largest source of scholarship monies for women.
KateCoe at August 31, 2008 10:33 AM
Amy, I think that all but the Kool-Aid drinkers (in both camps) would agree that there's no perfect ticket this time round.
I like the Sarah Palin choice. She's bright, she's articulate, and she's tough. How many politicians would have the guts to attack the corruption in their OWN party? That Austrian fellow in your state has refused to and look at the financial mess you're all in.
I would have preferred if McCain had picked Bobby Jindal from Louisiana. This has NOTHING to do with his skin colour but everything to do with his life experiences and his brain.
But Palin is a fine 2nd choice IMHO. I don't agree with all of her views but I never have with any other politician so c'est la vie.
As an aside, what are your thoughts on the smear campaign about her baby supposedly being from her daughter? I have seen photos of Sarah Palin just before and soon after the birth. They clearly indicate that SHE was the one who gave birth.
Last night I even found the smear campaign on Obama's OWN WEBSITE via comments from supporters: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/amandascott/gG5DyD/commentary#comments
Clearly that site must be monitored, yet they leave such unsupported trash up there. Does this now mean that Obama's adorable daughters are legitimate targets for smears too?
God help your country (substitute your own meaning for "God"). Even with Bush leaving office, the same vitriolic, unintelligent attacks are continuing. Perhaps Civil War 2 should be fought ... albeit in virtual space and the losing side would agree to tone down the rhetoric for 4 years!
Robert W. at August 31, 2008 10:36 AM
Just to jump back in, I truly don't care about the GPA or SAT scores of anyone in political life. And Julianna--her sister's ex was a state trooper, not a "high ranking" official.
From the WSJ:
A flap blew up after she fired Alaska Department of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan on July 11.
He said afterwards that Gov. Palin and her husband had pressured him to remove a state trooper who was a former brother-in-law she and her family had feuded with. Gov. Palin denies that, saying she removed the commissioner she appointed 18 months ago because she wants "a new direction," and offered him a job as liquor board director which he turned down.
The case stemmed from a messy divorce between the trooper, Mike Wooten, and his wife, Molly, who is Gov. Palin's younger sister. In 2005, Gov. Palin alleged the trooper had threatened to harm her father and sister and that he had engaged in numerous instances of official misconduct, including using a Taser on his 10-year-old stepson and shooting a moose without a proper permit, according to state documents. In one instance, she told state investigators, she overheard him on the telephone threatening her sister: "I'm gonna f--- shoot your dad. He's gonna get a lead bullet."
KateCoe at August 31, 2008 10:41 AM
She's got roughly the same experience as Obama, Edwards, Carter, and probably any number of other people we have had in office. {TR? hadn't thought about that one...} Importantly, she is running for VP, not pres. this lowers the odds of worrying about it significantly. PLUS, even if John were to throw off this mortal coil at some point, she would have all the time between now and then to gain that very crucial experience, by actully being there. I think the whole momalady thing is a cipher. When you get to that situation you do what needs to be done. It isn't as if she wont have an astounding amount of helpers, nannies and such even as VP.
What this is exposing, is the worry we have with the whole process. Ultimately political office IS simply a modified popularity contest like high school. We try to convince ourselves that by looking at what somebody did in the past it bodes well or ill for the future, but ultimately this is unknown because so many things change when you actually take the steering wheel.
Being an effective legislator doesn't make you capable of being an effective executive, nor vice-versa. Being a great lawyer doesn't make you the best CinC. At some point we have to make our best guesstimate, and elect people on what we think they are about, and HOPE for the best. Ronnie was governor of California, and that was his experience. Though in the background he was quite the politician, and schmozer. BillC was also governor fo a while... Certainly in both cases LONGER that Palin, but also in both cases President, not VP.
I'm not an appologist for Palin, and I think her stance on creationism is ludicrous, but we are voting for the Prez first, and then whoever is the VP in the very unlikely event that person needs to become fill in. IF such an event happens it's highly likely that the VP will have time to get copilot experience enough to fly when needs be. Personally I would much rather have an outsider picked for VP rather than a failed pres-primary person, because then the animosity isn't there...
Also? Neither the Pres, nor VP are king. There is a whole Congress out there that powers the government. People focus so much on who is Pres, then continue to hire the most inadequate Congress you can buy, and far more of our lives are affected by what Congress does.
SwissArmyD at August 31, 2008 11:05 AM
i like palin. certainly, she has problems as governor. if she wants to fire her little sister's ex-husband, i don't give a shit.
it'd be nice if she had, instead of the energy rebate, just reduced taxes on heating oil. but the legislature controls the purse.
the biggest thing the governor up here seems to have to do is haggle with the oil and natural gas companies. it seems that the pipeline is slowly moving forward, which is good. and without much in the way of scandal, which is VERY good.
other than seriously disliking john mccain, and his policies, i hope palin remains our governor for other reasons as well.
we're very close to getting ted stevens and don young out of office, and i don't want any of them running for governor if the position comes open.
plus, they say that the government that governs best, governs least, and she's got a kid with down syndrome. sounds perfect to me.
jody at August 31, 2008 11:13 AM
oh, and a few months ago, when asked if she wanted the job. she said that she wanted to know "what, exactly, a vice president does" before she would answer the question.
the reason i hate politics is because these people WANT to be in these positions of power. you know exactly what they're going to do when they get that power, abuse it.
what we need are people that hate their jobs.
jody at August 31, 2008 11:17 AM
So, will Maria Shriver reach out to Palin, what with the whole special Olympics bond?
KateCoe at August 31, 2008 11:34 AM
Shouldn't she have been curious? Should she have pretended she already knew? Personally, I'm not impressed with the two know-it-alls on the other ticket.
Jim Treacher at August 31, 2008 11:39 AM
Given that California will go overwhelmingly for Obama, might as well write in someone interesting for President (I'd go non-fictional, though, it may be tempting to write in 'Mickey Mouse', but then it wouldn't show up in the official results).
I'm holding my nose and voting for McCain, even here in California where it won't matter, cause Obama seems like a socialist, and McCain will be a pragmatist in office (I hope).
Interesting difference in this comment thread compared to others of recent vintage.
You say something that offends liberal sensitivities, and personal insults about your appearance proliferate, along with real attempts to shut down anyone else's ability to add to the discussion by spamming the comments.
Say something that conservatives might find disagreeable and possibly even distasteful, and they want to debate you on the points you raised, while defending their own viewpoint.
Some old cliches are true, I guess (the one about liberals looking for heretics, and conservatives, converts).
XWL at August 31, 2008 12:10 PM
I do not know why, but she reminds me of Audie Murphy. I vote Libertarian, except for Ronald Reagen, and was going to vote for Bob because McCain is to liberal for me. I must be getting too old, but I like her, I really like her. I may vote for McCain now.
Dave B at August 31, 2008 12:27 PM
Andrew: How can you even conceive of voting for McCain?
Because...he's not Obama.
The Democrats seem to have the idea that since the country is so sick of Bush, they can just forward any loser they want to...so they did.
Obama is an arrogant novice who is so sure of himself, that it never once occurred to him that he might have more to learn about how things work in Washington, like the fact that he seems to think that we're on our way to total disarmament if HE just goes and talks to Russia.
Forgetting the fact that Russia is not the only other country in the world with nukes or designs on getting one, what, pray tell, would allow Israel's continued existence if we simply disarmed?
I can just see him now, if he were elected (although he will not be), charging into Congress on January 21st, saying "Okay, let's get disarmament underway!"
Congress would collectively arch an eyebrow. Does Obama truly think that his fool's dream can happen without the cooperation of Congress, who probably isn't nearly as insane as he is?
And his wife, by the way, is a smug snob. She makes Barbara Bush look downright humble.
The worst thing about Obama's impending defeat is that he and the Democrats have a ready-made excuse for their failure: It's just because this country is racist.
Never once will it occur to them that some other factors contributed to their downfall. Oh, no. It's just because this country's so racist that they aren't ready to elect a black man. And without seriously looking at strategies, planning, polling, issues, etc., they will be destined to repeat the same mistakes in four years.
It's too late for them to salvage victory from this. They've already flipped off Hillary and her supporters, who are about to flip them off in return. Not unless McCain dies or does something unbelievably stupid. They could learn from this, but I don't believe they will.
Patrick at August 31, 2008 12:48 PM
> Dads actually make excellent
> nurturers
They do when they want to, Amy. Christ, you are so fucking glib with that Psychology Today shit. Grr. You really do write like a girl sometimes.
> like Natalie
Word. I have some ten second movies that he posted of that kid several years ago that still crack my ass up.
> she's smarter than John Edwards
Yes! One-tenth his cleverness and ten times his candlepower.
> she isn't qualified to
> be president,
How do you know? If she isn't qualified, is Obama? Is there some midnight ceremony I don't know about where certificates of competence are awarded by a secret committee?
Remember, she's a successful businesswoman, too. Did Obama ever have anyone who was, y'know, counting on him?
> Sorry, I'm not trying to
> be difficult -
Well Goddammit, now is the time for you to be making that effort!
> I'm not sure that Palin
> is up to staring down
> the Russians
Her state BORDERS Russia. She's fifteen miles away. She's already done more down-staring of Putin than anyone else on the ticket.
> As if Obama's succeeded despite
> a lack of looks
Word and...
> Sullivan is a dope
...word.
> but we are voting for the
> Prez first
Important point. But as a reflection of his judgment, this selection is an important event. He's gotten a huge bump in water-cooler talk (on a holiday weekend!) if not in actually in the opinion polls. For all her attractions, she's not a silly figure... She's really, really, really about change. Props to McCain.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at August 31, 2008 12:48 PM
What is the idiotic concern about Palin's children??? Where did this moronic non-issue come from?
Newsflash to those who are so concerned about Palin's five children: A Governor of Alaska or the Vice-President of the United States most certainly can afford a NANNY! Even a nanny for special-needs children, such as Palin's youngest, who has Down Syndrome.
Patrick at August 31, 2008 12:55 PM
And friends, remember... In a couple days, McCain's gonna step onstage with a lady Governor on one side and a dusky daughter on the other.
We can never, ever trust Republicans not to fuck things up, but...
It's at least possible that we'll watch them shake loose the shit that's been holding them back for the last fifty years.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at August 31, 2008 1:05 PM
> Dads actually make excellent > nurturers They do when they want to, Amy.
Anthropologist and primatologist Hrdy writes in her book I linked above:
All seem to be in force here.
Still, she explains, in this chapter, "reasons why male primtes are not more inclined to care for infants."
She also says, from her primate studies, "baby primates prefer mothers," and even if they are not hungry. But, she also adds, "Among humans, conscious efforts can minimize preexisting differences."
It seems women are biologically more sensitive to infant signals. Hrdy counters: "Just because the mother is more readily galvanized to respond to infant demands does not mean that fathers are not able to do so, or they cannot become adequate caretakers, 'good enough' caretakers, or that baby primates cannot form primary attachments to a male. Rather, a seemingly insignificant difference in thresholds for responding to infant cues gradually, insidiously, step by step, without invoking a single other cause, produces a marked division of labor by sex."
Amy Alkon at August 31, 2008 1:25 PM
> All seem to be in force here.
Absolutely, which is why I (and maybe Marion or someone else commenting earlier) am like totally OK with this candidate.
I love Hrdy, off to brunch or I'd post the cite, but she writes more about "primates" than about "men".
You were being glib with "Dads actually make excellent nurturers." It's reasonable to wonder whether a woman with a newborn has attention to spare for the Oval Office.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at August 31, 2008 1:32 PM
I'm a libertarian (socially liberal, fiscally conservative) that didn't give a flying flip about this election until just a few days ago. Palin is fantastic. The more I read, the more I like. I like her integrity and respect for the law.
I certainly didn't hate McCain before this, but now I think he's just the guy for the job.
They've got me interested and they've got my vote.
Lauren at August 31, 2008 1:56 PM
You were being glib with "Dads actually make excellent nurturers." It's reasonable to wonder whether a woman with a newborn has attention to spare for the Oval Office.
I think so, too! Just wanted to be clear that I wasn't utterly against the idea of the lumberjack doing most of the child care.
Amy Alkon at August 31, 2008 2:47 PM
Yes, he's a lumberjack... But he's OK!
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at August 31, 2008 3:14 PM
Ralph "Malph "Nader
The Mad Hungarian at August 31, 2008 3:33 PM
"I think that McCain could've given her a cabinet post & chosen somebody with more experience for VP"
No he couldn't. Mac had zero chance of beating back the tidal wave of Obamania & winning this election unless he fired up his base & enough independents to vote for his ticket with real enthusiasm, instead of with resignation. That's exactly what he's done.
In the 24 hrs after Sarah made her first public appearance as his VP, over $ 7 million was donated to his campaign, and the money is just pouring in as I'm writing this. Neither Romney or Pawlenty or any boring old Republican fart could have generated even a tiny fraction of that money and enthusiasm. And a knock-em-dead MILF is the only VP choice that could knock Obama's coronation speech off the front pages the day after he delivered it. It's not pandering, or an act of desperation. It's pure political genius.
Martin at August 31, 2008 4:36 PM
True.
Oh great. Later you complain about me sounding silly, but here you go complaining about "white guys." Next you'll be pratting on about "patriarchy." To quote one of your own replies to elitist nonsense: homey, please.
Sure, Crid. I'll have you punch my Official Crid Complaint Ticket at the Official Crid Approval Window for Officially Sanctioned Silly Complaints.
Ah, the Rortian irony comes crashing home. This is all a purgative. Opposition to identity politics is just the adolescent phase of a silly white guy who actually took seriously all that business about qualifications over sexual organs.
Relax, you say, enjoy the 21st century when vaginas matter more than competence. I deserve it, you say, I'm a white guy after all.
I'll pass, Crid. I'll just have to worry about and guard excellence. White man's burden and all.
How's them Rortian apples for ya', Criddo?
Jeff at August 31, 2008 5:29 PM
Yes, he's a lumberjack... But he's OK!
I LOVE lumberjacks. Guy-guys, men's-men. I might go to France, but I love a big strong, somewhat unshaven American man. My absolute favorite type.
When I was on book tour in 1996 for the book I wrote with my former partners, we flew from NYC to Seattle, and I got off the plane and it was like I just landed in paradise. I'd come from the land of underfed Jewish intellectuals (and a few overfed ones), and there were all these manly men marching around in flannel shirts, toting logs and hoisting cars. Total thrill. I'm swooning now just thinking of it.
Amy Alkon at August 31, 2008 5:33 PM
Tough room for an undergrad'sallusions.
Besides, Jeff, I said MacDonald was silly. But if the pump fits...
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at August 31, 2008 5:51 PM
Good grief, John McCain! Keep it in your pants!
Patrick at August 31, 2008 6:28 PM
Yes, he's a lumberjack... But he's OK!
Amy, nothing's sexier than a man that smells like sawdust, sweat, and chainsaw oil... I can say this quite confidently since hubby and I have been cutting firewood all day. However, I think Crid is referencing Monty Python's skit by the same title....
Thanks Crid, I needed that!
juliana at August 31, 2008 7:06 PM
Here are the lumberjack lyrics...
I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK
A D
I sleep all night and I work all day
(He's a lumberjack and he's OK
He sleeps all night and he works all day)
I cut down trees, I eat my lunch
I go to the lavat'ry
On Wednesdays I go shopping
And have buttered scones for tea
(He cuts down trees...)
(He's a lumberjack...)
I cut down trees, I skip and jump
I love to press wild flow'rs
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars
(He cuts down trees...)
(He's a lumberjack...)
I cut down trees, I wear high heels
Suspenders and a bra
I wish I'd been a girlie
Just like my dear papa
(He cuts down trees...)
(He's a lumberjack...)
juliana at August 31, 2008 7:07 PM
Amy: "I'm totally there with you, marion, and I love that she's governor of Alaska. But, she isn't qualified to be president...."
Amy, you are implying that a senator is. Or at least, these are. Really think so? I find this assumption common, and it strikes me as completely bizarre. When their mouths are not on the teat of lobbyists, they open to bloviate. Didn't you listen to Biden questioning Roberts? Whether an idiot born or an idiot crafted by self-stroking his own ego for 30 years, the man is an idiot. High self-esteem, though. Obama has taken a position. One. Against the surge. This is hardly an indication of presidential-caliber judgment. McCain has shown himself an abiding enemy of free speech and a tenacious friend to illegals. I'd reverse your blithe point - there should be a prima facie assumption that a senator is the last species of politican from whom to expect president acumen.
simon kenton at August 31, 2008 7:11 PM
Heh. My bad. Still, these Ferragamo pumps...look good.
Jeff at August 31, 2008 7:11 PM
Per Drudge, these are the shoes of the weekend.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at August 31, 2008 7:32 PM
Those black monk-straps look nice.
Jeff at August 31, 2008 8:06 PM
In different elections, different issues have a major effect on the outcome. In some elections, it is change.
In some elections, it's the economy. In some elections, it's a war.
Well, while all those things should be relevant now, anyone who has paid any attention should have noticed this election a woman on the ticket is a MAJOR issue.
In my opinion, this nation has been ready for a woman for President or V.P. for a long time. But, only if they run a truly qualified one. No one can say Ferraro was qualified for any important position.
We can debate Hillary's qualifications, but the primary said she wasn't qualified, end of debate.
Palin has something going for her some of you may not truly understand. She is awfully close to being an Alpha female. like Thatcher. While I didn't like that claim she fired the man who wouldn't fire her sis's ex-, at least she has, um, balls. That is needed for U.S. president, and that is what Thatcher had. Hillary is more like an angry Junior High School girl who wants to punish anyone who angers her.
Also, she is in good physical and mental health. That means she can learn what she has to learn, and quickly.
She has more executive experience than the other three people involved on both parties.
As someone pointed out, the President has advisors who do most of the heavy digging. The P. gets a newspaper every morning, made up during the night, with all important issues on it. Anything which catches P's attention , the advisors have an extensive packet, written journalist style which means you can get most stuff in the first paragraph, or read as long as you wish for more detail.
On important issues there will always be an effort to bring in opinions of key advisors, who were selected for their expertise on those issues.
I do not have executive experience, so I could never make up a team of advisors. However, give me the right advisors and I could run the Presidency. This is no brag, because the advisors are key. No one human being alone could ever do the job in today's world.
The only thing the P. or V.P. candidate has to do is not bomb the debates, and look good to the public when decisions are made. Some do a lot more control than others.
Yes, Palin is highly qualified. Sorry you don't get it.
Last note: Prez can't do very much without legislative support. Even appointing Supreme Court justices has to get past the legislature, and many have not made it.
irlandes at August 31, 2008 8:37 PM
Amy:
I'm calling bullshit on juliana's posted comment above. If she really has a sister and brother-in-law who are 20-year residents of Alaska, they are either lying or are woefully ill-informed since the "e-mail" she received is innaccurate. Palin fired Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan....her former brother-in-law Mike Wooten is still an Alaska State Trooper. Unlike liberal trolls, I back up what I say: Anchorage Daily News http://www.adn.com/politics/story/476430.html
" Governor Palin is a YOUNG woman who will garner the female vote most assuredly for John McCain, especially because she did NOT give in to Playboy's request to pose nude.....of course, at the time she was six months pregnant and NO ONE in Alaska even knew she was pregnant...wait, that's my perspective...." This is a subtle reference to several ridiculous posts made at the odious dailykos site that Palin's baby is really her daughter's child: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/29/204244/865
Juliana = Lib troll
By the way, don't be too quick to dismiss Palin, there is a strong libertarian streak which runs through her. The people of Alaska seem to love her, while the Alaskan Republican party doesn't like her (she has consistently exposed republican corruption in the state). That's pretty much a ringing endorsement as far as I'm concerned.
C. Pruett at August 31, 2008 8:42 PM
Ewww...Creepycreepycreepycreepycreepy:
A little surprisingly, Mr McCain on Sunday described Ms Palin as a “partner and a soulmate”.
Sounds like Cindy's about to get jettisoned.
Patrick at August 31, 2008 10:56 PM
Libertarian streak?
More like straight off the GOP production line...
Steeped in Big Oil.
A Religious Fundy, who wouldn't allow a rape .
victim the option of abortion.
Using position of power to advance a personal agenda. Demonstrated by firing a competent Public Safety Official because he refused to disregard the rule of law and procedure. And then lied about her involvement, continues to do so today.
As mayor, leaving office and her 6000 constituents $20 million in debt through the financing of unnecessary pet projects.
As Gov, started early with a 90% approval rating; it's now around 60% and still falling.
Was for the "Bridge to Nowhere" before she was against it.
Sorry, but this sounds all too familiar....
To the author:
Appreciate your blunt assessment of this VP pick.
Von Cracker at August 31, 2008 11:11 PM
Write in Fred Thompson, maybe?
I'm in Illinois, which will almost certainly be overwhelmingly for Obama. So I might as well vote for one of the other candidates instead of for McCain, but I don't think I'll be able to bring myself to do it.
Palin's very likable and chipper. I think the enthusiastic conservative response to her is partially a reaction to the depression of Obama's anointing.
I'm cautiously optimistic. We'll just have to wait to see how it works out. She's going to have to absorb a lot of foreign policy info to go up against Biden in the debates. Don't forget that her basketball nickname was Sarah Barracuda. She may surprise us all.
The following leftist blogger (via Insty) says Palin's a stroke of genius because she brings out the misogyny of the Obamabots, including Kos and Andrew Sullivan, which will alienate Hillary loyalists.
http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/2008/08/29/i-knew-it-i-knew-it-i-knew-it/
The only trouble is that the commenters there won't vote for McCain, either. They're going Green: Cynthia McKinney!!!!
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Jim C. at August 31, 2008 11:15 PM
Simon says (sorry, love saying that):
QUOTING ME: "I'm totally there with you, marion, and I love that she's governor of Alaska. But, she isn't qualified to be president...." SIMON: Amy, you are implying that a senator is. Or at least, these are. Really think so? I find this assumption common, and it strikes me as completely bizarre.
Actually, I don't think any of the people running would make a good or even an adequate president.
Amy Alkon at August 31, 2008 11:50 PM
Amy, what do you want from them?
Properly approached, the office of the president is not that big a deal.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at September 1, 2008 12:09 AM
Just think of the description of the person without seeing the face...coming from community action, making a difference, not in the big deal but gets the big deal and always has...that would be Obama until he hit the Senate, and Palin until she hit governor of her state. And her for more years than him, but who's counting at this point?
I think you could take the two, Obama and Palin, and find so many ways that people avoid looking at the good they have both done and look at the personal asides...like Obama with his hanging out with people who could be called 'extremists' and Palin hanging out with people who could be called 'extremists'....but then again we are comparing a Presidential candidate with a Vice Presidential candidate at that point.
I took a an online test some time ago about how an personal view checks in with potential candidates and how they vote on issues and was surprised that I agreed with McCain on many things, and Hillary was a second..not a close second, but a second. I really had dismissed McCain before that, but it made me take a closer look, and his choice of Palin for his VP just reinforces what I learned from seeing how he votes.
I was waffling between Obama and McCain, but after seeing their VP picks, I am trending toward McCain. I think McCain made a choice he believed in, and I appreciate that. And to be honest, it's not that I like Palin so much, because I do...but I really, really dislike Joe Biden.
Ang at September 1, 2008 12:23 AM
Von Cracker's appraisal doesn't jibe tightly with the Wikipedia page....
Jus' sayin'
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at September 1, 2008 12:42 AM
Yeah, I've been seeing that package of talking points everywhere. And it's a rush job. (No pun intended.)
Jim Treacher at September 1, 2008 1:00 AM
McCain's choice of Palin is just whacky enough to work. I am not American so I won't be voting, nor am I necessarily right or left, but... I like it. For what it's worth, McCain is a man who has proven he has the right stuff, along with a pretty good sense of humour. Add the naughty librarian who stands up to oil corporations and you have a great team for genuine reform. Paglia's spot on when she says Palin's was the best speech by a female candidate yet. Obama talks a lot about change, but actions speak louder than words - look who he chose to run with.
lizzylights at September 1, 2008 3:07 AM
Again, Obama = socialist is akin to saying Barry Manilow = Heavy Metal singer. Get real.
JET at September 1, 2008 4:49 AM
C. Pruett-
I would almost be insulted by a person who would call me a liberal troll but for two things; first, you obviously can't pay attention:
"I don't agree with her on all points, but I respect her opinion because as a conservative, she doesn't always rubber stamp her vote, she pays attention to the details and will call someone out. ***please note that I said this my sister's opinion and not mine!*** I've noticed alot of people skimming through and not reading comments entirely, mixing things up and addressing the wrong people in the wrong context."
The only way I could back up my sister's comments would be to provide you with her personal email address. I'm sorry, but that's simply not acceptable. I can ask her to join this forum, but cannot compel her to; who knows, she's got quite a pair on her and probably would love to join the fray. Just like another woman we all know from Michigan...
Second, you've never commented about anything I've had to say before. So I offer you the opportunity to do your homework and go back into Amy's past blogs and look for me. This should be easy, I'm the only Juliana, but please don't confuse me with JulieA. I won't offer you any another personal anecdotes, as you'll most likely discount them as "B.S."
However, I'm thinking you won't bother, since you're feeling better about calling people names and probably not all that hot to eat your words.
juliana at September 1, 2008 6:01 AM
I'm still creeped out by the video I posted. McCain can't take his eyes off her breasts and he keeps playing with his wedding band as he does it. Cindy should clean his clock. The uncouth lecher.
Patrick at September 1, 2008 6:37 AM
"A Religious Fundy, who wouldn't allow a rape
victim the option of abortion"
Why should rape victims get abortions? If it's wrong to kill a kid, it's wrong to kill a kid. Whether the mom enjoyed the sex that produced it or not is irrelevant. If you say you are for abortions only for rape, then what you are really doing is punishing women who want to have sex. "You enjoyed and wanted the sex? Oh, tough, you suffer the consequences and have the kid. You were innocent and forced to have sex? Oh, okay, then you can kill the kid."
Either be for abortion no matter when/what/how, saying it's a woman's body period, or be against killing the kid. It is a pretty black and white issue. And I am glad Palin recognizes it as such. But, like I said in my earlier post, no matter how conservative the people in the white house, abortion will never be outlawed.
I like her, and this lifelong democrat will be voting republican. Not only that, I'll be putting a bumper sticker on my car for the first time ever, and donating money for the first time ever. Go Palin!!
momof3 at September 1, 2008 7:51 AM
Momof3, to dismiss a rape victim as someone who didn't enjoy the sex is a little callous.
And I can see the inconsistency in allowing abortions for cases of rape and incest and not for consensual sex, but I also see the rationale. Presumably those who are having consensual sex should be responsible for their decisions and have the precautions against unwanted pregnancy. But a rape victim shouldn't be expected to be prepared for every contingency that might result in pregancy.
"Excuse me, Mr. Ski-Mask-And-Switchblade, but would you mind slipping this Trojans on first?"
Patrick at September 1, 2008 8:45 AM
One of the big reasons I read this blog is because it often provokes me to clarify my thoughts on an issue, usually in surprising ways. For example, I don't really buy the "moms can do it all" thing, though given that I'm young, female, socially liberal and am getting my edumacation, I should. My views motherhood are surprisingly conservative. I'm sure i'll raise the ire of many, but I think that mothering your disabled infant yourself is more important than just about anything. Yes, the baby has a daddy, but daddy doesn't lactate. Daddy also has a job, yes? Relatives are fantastic, support staff, great, but I don't think there's any substitute for a primary caregiver that will be with the child from birth, whose main job, at least for the first year, is to raise the child. In the case of a disabled child, I think more time might be appropriate. This isn't very feasible economically, which is part of the reason I won't have children.
The lack of time parents have with their kids seems to lead to a reluctance to actually discipline them during that precious time. This leads/has lead to hordes of underparented little shits that will unfortunately be running things someday. My generation, in charge, scares the bejesus out of me.
Back to the point, this lady. Creationism? Are you fucking serious? What year is this? I don't care how many idiots will flock to the banner, how can any, reasonable person set aside this basic indicaton that a persons reasoning is impaired? Politics are about numbers, so I can see why the lady is appealing to McCain, but can one really vote for someone who believes in that hooey?We've had the abortion talk a few times, but again, that's another deal-breaker for me. My abhorrance for all that nonsense will make me way more forgivingof the other sides' weaknesses.
christina at September 1, 2008 8:58 AM
That's pathetic and embarrassing if he's indeed guilty of spying her breasts.
I'm a guy, I'm breathing, so I too look. However, what McCupSize does in the video is beyond pathetic if he is indeed sizing up her breasts.
Could it be possible he's reading her speech notes? Quite frankly, as a male, I do wonder what he'd be looking at "breast-wise."
This, given that with no cleavage being shown, and with a shirt and jacket adequately covering her upper body, why would be be staring at her chest?
Is she particularly top heavy, but given the angle of the camera, it's not obvious from a viewers perspective?
Tony at September 1, 2008 9:30 AM
I believe you may have overlooked a couple of points Amy. You mention the "those Hillary-supporting vote-your-vagina ladies", however you overlooked the undecided vote-your-penis men.
Throw in a MILF who fancies weapons, and I honestly believe that will substantially affect voter turnout in terms of motivating your core to exercise their vote, as well as garnering the undecided penises. Never underestimate how shallow men can be.
Your average voter does not possess the intellect of those who post here.
Regarding her duties as mom attending to a newborn, between a breast pump and taxpayer funded aides, all of her parental duties can vanish in an instant.
I used to work for a billionaire, their lives, and practically every moment of their days are planned for them by staff. A Vice President of the United States would certainly enjoy the same privileges.
Regarding her inexperience, that doesn't concern me in the least. In fact, I think it's a plus as it means she's most likely not yet tainted by the political beast.
Our country in for the most part hated internationally, and in my opinion continues to "nosedive" in an increasing rate of speed as its spiraling destruction continues.
That, at the hands of "experienced" politicians. Personally, I'd prefer Palin as Preident, and McCant as VP.
Let an inexperienced down-to-earth mom run the country. She sure as hell can't destroy it anymore than men already have.
The Democrats shot themselves in the foot by abandoning Hillary.
At the very least, it's time for a woman to take the reins of this country.
Tony at September 1, 2008 10:11 AM
Crid, the laughter from just picturing that practically knocked me out of my chair!
Tony at September 1, 2008 10:25 AM
Palin's not just pro-life, she's creationist. And, kind of a hypocrite. Do I personally think women can have kids and a job, too? Sure! But for someone's who's so conservative and all pro-life and pro-family... wouldn't she WANT to stay home to raise her kids, esp. the special needs baby? I'm not against day care of having family help out, but given her belief system, she doesn't seem to be following her values.
MonicaM at September 1, 2008 10:34 AM
"Momof3, to dismiss a rape victim as someone who didn't enjoy the sex is a little callous. "
It may be callous, but was said to prove a point, and given that I have personally BTDT I think I get a little leeway on the wording.
You're raped, get your butt in to the hospital and get the morning after pill, which is not abortion when given within about 24 hours. That's just one of the many, many, many reasons you would need to get your butt to the hospital ASAP after a rape, trust me. It's not even the most important one.
momof3 at September 1, 2008 10:37 AM
What are you smoking? Your comment is replete with oxymorons and lacks any substantial facts to support your allegations.
How do you equate Republicans as morally bankrupting America, considering their platform is "morally" based?
Please explain how republicans have bankrupted this country. While your at it, please provide your definition of morals as well.
I generally refrain from moral debates, (considering they're usually nothing more than a waste of time) but your position warrants further discussion.
Tony at September 1, 2008 10:47 AM
>>I'm cautiously optimistic. We'll just have to wait to see how it works out. She's going to have to absorb a lot of foreign policy info to go up against Biden in the debates. Don't forget that her basketball nickname was Sarah Barracuda. She may surprise us all.
Jim C.,
Her 17-year-old daughter's confirmed pregnancy has certainly surprised me!
Helluva thing for her to know was about to become public from Palin's POV.
Jody Tresidder at September 1, 2008 10:57 AM
Word. Helluva. I think I'm as disappointed as Mom is. In a year when the Bristol generation learned that it was *always* going to have an extra burden of family caretaking....
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at September 1, 2008 11:43 AM
That could describe the Cincinati Bengals as well. If you're 3ed and long against them, throw up the middle for an easy 20-30 yds.
Has worked like a champ for more than ten years ans until I stopped watching them 5 years ago.
Tony at September 1, 2008 11:44 AM
If women would learn to feign sleeping and hearing difficulties for just a few minutes longer, I bet this would no longer be true...
Tony at September 1, 2008 11:54 AM
Monicam, you don't really believe that in order to be pro-life and pro-family that a woman has to sacrifice any personal ambitions (or a life)...do you? How about someone who is SO pro-family that she believes that the current institutions must be upgraded to take into account that women want to be able to have successful careers AND a family? Jeez, I thought this was 2008, not 1958! You can have a job and raise a good family too.
Jenniferwhatnot at September 1, 2008 12:22 PM
How long does mom lactate, for 18 years? Your inference that because dad isn't dripping milk, is working, and therefore he can't "step-in" is ludicrous.
Ever heard of a breast pump? What if mom can't breastfeed? What if baby rejects nipple?
It's amazing that stay-at-home dads don't starve their children to death.
Last time I checked, governing a state was considered a job, yes?
Tony at September 1, 2008 12:32 PM
Monica, please name for me just one politician that's NOT a lying hypocrite.
Tony at September 1, 2008 12:49 PM
Think Frank Capra - The Lady from Alaska goes to Washington....Snowmobiles over the White House Lawn. Palin and McCain are the real deal... For once in your lives America, do something smart! Take a leap, have some imagination! You simply cannot have Obama for President when you could have had Palin and McCain.
PS Why is it always the right that is comfortable with women in power? (Except in NZ, but then that country is an exception to every rule).
lizzylights at September 1, 2008 1:54 PM
No, Tony, I don't expect her to breast-feed for 18 years. I just don't expect a VP to be all "Hey, Putin, give me a minute with the nuke talk, I'm going to be over here pumping my breast". Having children (man or woman) and being a VP is substantially different than being such and having a SPECIAL NEEDS INFANT.
As for dad, my point, if you care to try to understand, was that if Mom's off saving the world and Dad has a job too, who is raising their baby, and the other kids?
Christina at September 1, 2008 2:20 PM
Crid - "the new Thatcher"
Ewww. You don't want that. Really. The Tories have been out of office for god knows how long just because of Thatcher. We'll have to wait until everyone who remembers her is dead or senile before they get back in.
From over here, the phrase "the new Thatcher" sounds weird. Makes me tink of spiders, snakes, and other unpleasantnesses. Perhaps it would compare with "the new Bush" or "the new Quayle" in weirdness - Thatcher had way more intellect than both of them together, but it's not about intellect.
Norman at September 1, 2008 2:47 PM
If you can. If you're taken to a Catholic hospital, you may not even be told it exists. The pill prevents a fertilized egg from being implanted in the uterus when taken w/in the first 72 hours of intercourse - but that window of time may be too tight for someone who is unwilling to report a rape, sent to a hospital that does not inform about the Morning After pill, or cannot get transportation to a hospital or drug store that will provide it - and they can be hard to come by in some conservative counties.
Michelle at September 1, 2008 3:45 PM
Actually, I don't think any of the people running would make a good or even an adequate president
Why did Schwartzenegger become a good governator?
The Mad Hungarian at September 1, 2008 4:08 PM
Norman-- It's not how the Brits feel about her that's important to us... That means less than you could possibly imagine. It's how we feel about her....
It's amusing how other nationalities take this very personal interest in our politics, as if they're loyal taxpaying Americans who happen not to vote.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at September 1, 2008 6:35 PM
How can I understand your point when your verbiage doesn't make it clear? It seems to me that your point changes and is a moving target?
What is mom doing when she's "off saving the world" that concerns you so much? Why are you so concerned about who raises their kids, whether it be dad, siblings or aids? Daycare Centers are a booming business
Christina, are you an Obama supporter?
Tony at September 1, 2008 8:31 PM
But for someone's who's so conservative and all pro-life and pro-family... wouldn't she WANT to stay home to raise her kids, esp. the special needs baby?
So the conservative shouldn't run for vice president because she's conservative. Come to think of it, why are we even having an election? Can't they just give it to Obama?
Jim Treacher at September 2, 2008 12:38 AM
Crid, my post was meant as a word to the wise. But I'm please that my opinions keep you amused. I can dance too! Just watch me cakewalk.
Listen, you schmuck, the US is still the world's only policeman, judge, jury & executioner. Of course people are interested even if they don't have a vote. And not many posts ago you were commenting on the British monarchy. How quaint you colonials are!
Grrr.
Norman at September 2, 2008 6:02 AM
Although I do not agree with Sarah Palin on abortion or creationism (to differing degrees), I think she was a good choice.
She has more executive experience than anyone else still in the race. And (unlike the bimbo on Fox this weekend who thought, since she was an "executive" at AOL, she had more "executive experience" than Obama) by "executive experience" I mean being the person at the top of the pyramid; the person sitting at the desk at which, as Truman famously put it, the buck stops. Of the four people vying for the top two positions in the Executive branch of our government, only Palin has sat at that desk (as mayor and as governor).
She has energized the party base for McCain. Prior to her inclusion on the ticket, the party base was apathetic. The election was Obama's to lose. Now it's a race.
As a Washington insider running against a first-term senator (with a good claim to being an outsider himself) who's running on a platform of "change," McCain needed an outsider. Picking one with a reputation for taking on corruption in her own party was a masterstroke.
She's a fresh face. Biden is old news. He's been running for president almost as long as Obama's been alive. Seriously, the guy's giving Lyndon Larouche a run for the money in the futility department.
Obama's football stadium coronation was a major media event. McCain's announcement the next day took some serious wind out of Obama's sails. Obama could (and should) have had significant media coverage throughout the Labor Day weekend. Instead, McCain did. No way McCain gets that kind of attention by picking Romney, Huckabee (ugh!), or Pawlenty.
The choice of Palin, along with the media interest in other the possible VP candidates has left the GOP with a strong bench going into the 2012 election. Along with Palin, the Repubs can put up fresh viable candidates in Pawlenty, Sanford, Steele, and Jindal, along with more exposed (but not yet over-exposed) candidates like Romney and Huckabee. The Republicans have very few "old warhorses" with a serious shot at the nomination (Giuliani, perhaps). The Democrat bench is nothing but repeat candidates: Obama, Clinton, Edwards, and Gore. New faces for the Democrats will stand little chance at the nomination until at least 2016 because the party moneybags are going to be backing those party mainstays in 2012. Clinton's strong performance in this primary means she'll be the party's go-to candidate in 2012 if McCain wins in 2008 or to pull a Teddy Kennedy to Obama's Jimmy Carter if Obama is a weak incumbent. McCain did the Republican party a real favor in choosing Palin. Obama did the Democrats no favor in choosing Biden.
Conan the Grammarian at September 2, 2008 9:26 AM
She lives in the back country. She believes life on earth was created spontaneously in 7 days by a guy in the sky with a beard. She ventured out of Alaska briefly to obtain a B.A. in backwoods Idaho. She doesn't know anything about foreign policy. She governs an underpopulated state that is rich in oil money with little diversity. Had she governed for two years in the rust belt or dealt with a population more representative of the people who actually make up these United States, maybe she could be taken seriously. The world she will encounter as VP of the US will be a zillion times more complex than anything she's ever been faced with before. In short, she hasn't been out much. We don't need someone this naive to represent us on the global stage.
elephant in room at September 2, 2008 10:19 AM
She governs an underpopulated state that is rich in oil money with little diversity. Had she governed for two years in the rust belt or dealt with a population more representative of the people who actually make up these United States, maybe she could be taken seriously. The world she will encounter as VP of the US will be a zillion times more complex than anything she's ever been faced with before.
I think she's been faced with some pretty complex issues already.
She governs a state with significant (and complex) transportation and logistics issues, business development issues, emergency management issues, healthcare provision issues, environmental and natural resource issues, and infrastructure issues.
If you want to play the numbers on diversity, the US is ~68% white and Alaska is ~69% white. Not much difference there. Palin governs a state with the highest percentage (~16%) of Native Americans in its population. In the total US, African-Americans represent ~12% of the population, Hispanics represent ~15%, and Asian-Americans represent ~5%, so, at ~16%, her experience dealing with a single minority group is on a par with the national averages.
Conan the Grammarian at September 2, 2008 11:15 AM
Tony-
I didn't say anything about launching nukes - VP, President, or otherwise. I said "nuke talk".
My point was that raising (as opposed to just birthing) five children, including an infant, generally means having to drop everything and take care of them when their urgent needs arise. Yes, she can certainly dump her responsibilities on her aides, her other children, or the dude on the street corner. I just don't respect that at all. I don't think being a mother means popping them out; I think it means parenting them, being there for them YOURSELF. I think taking a job that will certainly put you in situations in which you cannot be there is bad mothering. If you have to go to work because you need to feed your family, so be it. She doesn't NEED to be the vice president to support her family.
You seem to be ascribing to me motives that I don't actually have. I'm not an Obama supporter. I'm a "kids deserve the very best you can give them" supporter. I don't give a shit what she's doing. If she was my perfect candidate, I'd still think she was a shitty mom and be talking about it.
Christina at September 2, 2008 3:55 PM
> Listen, you schmuck
How dare you! How dare you!
> the US is still the world's
> only policeman, judge, jury
> & executioner
Oh puhleeze... Other countries got all kinds of people who perform those functions. Often within a single neighborhood. Often within a single human being...
But when it comes to actually preventing bad things from happening to other people, the world looks to the United States for leadership... By which I mean the shedding of blood, her own and that of others. For the UN actions that merely require drunkenness or the raping of nearby school children, etc., any country's soldiers dressed under a blue helmet will do.
(I keep an up-to-date folder of stories like this. I can keep posting them for a very, very long time.)
We'd be delighted if the rest of the developed world wanted to pay the taxes to float a freedom- & minority-defending navy like our own... As it happens, the French can't float a carrier that doesn't leak, and it's been awhile since Canada even tried.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at September 3, 2008 1:47 AM
Crid - I didn't make it clear that I'd rather have the US than anyone else as PJJ&E. That was a statement of fact, not a complaint. What I'm objecting to is your objection that anyone else has any right to voice an opinion about the US elections. I'll influence the US elections any way I can - principally by commenting in places like this - precisely because the result will affect me. Even though I don't pay US taxes.
The rest of the developed world pays the UN - unlike the US. It's a pity the UN's crap, but don't say that no-one else is paying. If we can depend on the UN for drunkenness and rape, we can depend on the US for similar atrocities. Remember Abu Ghraib? Guantanamo? Nobody's perfect, so don't pretend the US is.
And if we pay towards your navy, do we get to say what it does? I thought not.
Back to your election. I still find it a hard choice, as both contenders seem to me to have serious flaws.
Norman at September 3, 2008 4:42 AM
If we can depend on the UN for drunkenness and rape, we can depend on the US for similar atrocities. Remember Abu Ghraib? Guantanamo? Nobody's perfect, so don't pretend the US is.
You're equating the incarceration of suspected terrorists and enemy fighters with the wanton rape and looting of innocent villages?
While Abu Ghraib was a travesty, the guilty parties were apprehended and punished. When was the last time the UN even admitted wrong-doing, much less punished the wrong-doers?
The UN covers up the atrocities committed by its "peacekeepers." The US puts them on the front page and punishes the guilty.
No one here is pretending the US is perfect. You need to stop pretending the US is the moral equivalent of a third world dictatorship.
Conan the Grammarian at September 3, 2008 10:28 AM
At this point, if I do vote, it'll be third party. Gotta check out who will be on the ticket in NY.
Christine, exactly. It does not a good mom make. But, everyone, enough with the talk of breastfeeding. If she is elected, she's gonna have to give that up. We aren't talking pumping to express milk for the day-care while you put in 8 or 12 hours. She could wind up tied up much longer than that. Frankly, I think too much is made of breastfeeding. Yes, there's some benefits but seems babies have been thriving on formula for quite some time now. Some of us bottlefed deprived are even grandparents by now.
Crid, shut up and let Norman talk. I'm interested in his opinion too. Actually, I am interested in anyone's views from a foreign country and likewise am apt to give mine on their country's politics when discussed. We've certainly all done enough talking about what Islam's doing where Norman lives, right?
One thing I love about the internet and how we get to talk openly with others around the world is that we get to do just that and gain more prospective.
Besides I like Norman.
T's Grammy at September 3, 2008 11:13 AM
> I'll influence the US elections
> any way I can - principally by
> commenting in places like this -
Well, it's an intrusion I'll have to live with. It's not just that you're sticking your nose where it maybe doesn't belong (although you are)... It's that it makes you look so silly.
The example I've used here often is of an unemployed teenager with his feet up on the coffee table who, as Dad walks through the door after a tough day at work, starts whining about how things are being run in the house.
> precisely because the result
> will affect me. Even though I
> don't pay US taxes.
> (Abu Gharib,etc)
There's absolutley no limit to the kind of whimpering you can do on those grounds. It's childish as hell. That's like saying that if Raddy buys a car today, it's going make the car I buy tomorrow more expensive because it heats up the market. The fact that you're "affected" doesn't been you get a piece of everyone's business.
> The rest of the developed
> world pays the UN
First of all, what's your source? (It's a ten second Google. Hit me.)
Second, the rest of the developed world can have the UN, for all I care. They deserve it.
Thirdly, again, if the United Nations truly lost the military power, operational support and moral authority of the United States, it would close up shop within a week. Who's gonna host it? New Zealand?
> Nobody's perfect, so don't
> pretend the US is.
We're better, which is good enough for the present rhetorical purposes.
> And if we pay towards your
> navy, do we get to say
> what it does?
Let's make a deal:
I presume you live in a modern western state with all the trimmings (education, rule of law, infrastructure, sturdy public finance, etc.). I forget where you are.
Now, if you and everyone else in your country renounces all allegiance to and authority of your established government, then we of the USA will, for a nominal processing fee, assume operation of your lesser nation and call it the 51st state.
You'll have to pay taxes. But then you'll really be one of humanity's adults, and if you have thoughts about where our navy floats, you'll be permitted to express them without (presumptive) ridicule.
Just a thought. Call the office and see what you can get started.
> I still find it a hard
> choice
Christ, that's crazyshit infantile... Norman, you don't have a "choice". I didn't have a "choice" in Sarkozy vs. Royal, either.
It's like an 8-year-old girl of divorced parents... Mom's deciding what vector of neckline to wear on her date with the new sales manager at the work, and the little brat-child's pretending she gets a vote.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at September 3, 2008 11:42 AM
Are T's Grammy, Mom0f3, Lovelysoul and Juliana all the same person?
Just looking for patterns here, people....
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at September 3, 2008 11:45 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2008/08/31/palin.html#comment-1586969">comment from Crid [cridcridatgmail]No, but I think you make an adorable conspiracy theorist!
Amy Alkon at September 3, 2008 11:58 AM
O'riordan too. Five commenters, one guy.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at September 3, 2008 1:36 PM
Crid, this is so unlike you.
whining about how things are being run in the house.
the kind of whimpering you can do
crazyshit infantile
an 8-year-old girl of divorced parents... the little brat-child's pretending she gets a vote
then you'll really be one of humanity's adults
You used to argue, not just insult.
Norman at September 3, 2008 1:50 PM
The vandal has made me permanently pissy.
I seriously, seriously, believe that -
- Most nations of the developed world don't not carry their weight in international affairs, particularly their own defense
- They therefore enjoy more budgetary comfort in terms of social programs, a wealth the begins in the United States and could certainly, certainly could be put to good and deserving use for the less fortunate here
- America's brilliance of freewheeling communication, both in entertainment and politics, blinds other nations to the profound difference between our lives and theirs. Our media --commercial and otherwise-- are so alluring and seductive that people in foreign lands don't realize their entranced by forces and issues that don't apply in their own lives. Their own governments, villages and families are wickedly corrupt, choking the productivity and integrity to which they'd lay claim; they have much better things to give their attention to than Bristol Palin.
> You used to argue, not
> just insult.
That's not true! From day one I've struggled to mix them richly.
Cridcrid_at_g_mail at September 3, 2008 3:33 PM
Don't not is do not. You got that, right?
sorryIgottastartworknowmorelater
Cridcrid at gmail at September 3, 2008 3:34 PM
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