"Do YOUUUUU Have Children?!"
Certain "parents" are quick to ask that question -- very often, those actively engaged in underparenting, like the undergroomed late-40s-looking mother of a 4-year-old who was jumping like a little monkey on the chair at a café I go to. He'd been doing it since before she'd gotten there, as he seemed to have been brought there with another child by his nanny, who sat with them, also never thinking to suggest the child sit down and behave.
After the woman arrived, her devilspawn continued to sit kicking the steel leg of the chair and staring directly at me from about two feet away, uninterrupted, for about 10 minutes straight. Oh yeah, and the persistent jumping on the chair seat he did with his sneakers on. Sneakers I could see dirty bottoms on when he occasionally kneeled on the chair seat. Momma just sat there as he bounced and kicked and stared, never saying a word.
I finally looked straight at the kid and said "Stop staring" -- as the lumpy older woman who gave birth to him wasn't about to, and probably hadn't even noticed, as she was talking to another woman, who also appeared to be about 50, also at the table. The woman laughed a bitter laugh, and remarked to her friend, "She's talking to a 4-year-old!" As opposed to actually parenting her little savage. No, it never occurred to her to make even the slightest suggestion that he should stop, 1., staring, 2., making noise kicking the chair, and 3., putting his sneakered feet all over the chair seat where somebody might sit down with a pair of light-colored pants.
Laughing knowingly, both women demanded to to know whether I had children -- as if that made any difference. I didn't answer. Trick question, I knew. I asked whether they could tell if somebody was driving a bus dangerously even if they weren't a bus driver. I mentioned that I am writing a chapter called 'The Underparented Child.'" They sniffed smugly and turned back to the subject of aging mothers and breastpumping, or whatever was holding them so wrapt that it kept the woman from parenting.
Of course, an hour later, I thought of the answer to their sneer,"Do YOUUUUU Have Children?!" My response: "No, because I really, really get what the job entails." And quite frankly, squeezing a child out of your coochie doesn't qualify you as a parent; it merely suggests you are fertile enough to let some dude's sperm take root. As far as what I know about parenting goes, I have about five of the top parenting experts in my address book -- whose findings I'm pretty informed of. Who do these women have, their nanny, their backup nanny, their chef, their backup chef, and Toys R Us?
As they were leaving, I reached over and wiped off the chair -- both because I'm sort of a snot and wanted to make a point and because I had a pair of white pants ruined at another café where I sat down on what appeared to be dirty child sneaker cleat marks on the seat. And lo and behold, about an hour after they left, Erin, who used to work at the place, came over to talk to me about what she was up to, and sat down on the chair...in a cream-colored dress. Advice Goddess Janitorial to the rescue!
What a strange thing for them to say, it's almost as if the child isn't human, as if it's a pet...
Unforgivable. A four-year-old is big enough to know better, that's shocking!
crella at September 20, 2008 1:21 AM
I was pretty amazed. By the way, I'm now completing my chapter on "The Underparented Child." I was going through my notes and came up on this:
Imagine that, expecting children to behave, and actually asking them to do it when they get out of line. We never bothered other people as far as I can remember, but if we did, my parents would have been mortified and apologized to them, not gone all smug on them.
As for my parenting expertise, it starts with having actually been parented, and knowing what is and isn't acceptable behavior in a supposedly civilized society, and then, I felt no need to brag to the two in the cafe: I not only have read a good deal of research on what it takes to raise kids who become emotionally healthy, successful adults; I have the e-mail addresses and phone numbers of some of the top parenting experts in the nation right a couple feet from my computer, from John Gottman to Boston College's Peter Gray and beyond.
Amy Alkon at September 20, 2008 1:49 AM
Proper answer: "You'll notice that I've chosen to leave them HOME."
Who cares if its a lie. Imbeciles don't deserve the truth.
I pulled the public tantrum ONCE. Got dragged kicking and screaming out of the store for my trouble. Never repeated that mistake.
brian at September 20, 2008 5:33 AM
I think you handled that well. I might have added the word "short" in front of bus when making the analogy.
O'Riordan at September 20, 2008 5:56 AM
""We always talked to you girls as adults, and expected you to act like adults when we took you to restaurants or other adult places. You were children, so you didn't always do the right thing. But, we'd say 'Girls, that's not done here,' and you'd listen."
Exactly! If children are expected to behave and have limits, they will behave. Children love order, it settles them down. I'm still shaking my head at "She's talking to a 4-year-old!"... my memories of being 4 or 5 involve gloves and straw hats and tiny patent leather handbags, Easter suits...we were dressed for church, parties etc, it was just expected of us. Talking back to adults, making a scene in public, just was not allowed.
crella at September 20, 2008 6:16 AM
Here's one - next time this happens, you can smile sweetly and sympathetically at them, and remark how difficult it must be to raise a special needs child.
Pirate Jo at September 20, 2008 6:18 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2008/09/20/do_youuuuu_have.html#comment-1591871">comment from crellaParents do right by their kids by actually parenting them. They teach them how to be in public, which means the kids won't get reprimanded a lot in school, and which also means that they will learn how to behave in all aspects -- in business, etc. -- in a way in which things will go smoothly for them. This child is not just not taught to show consideration for others; he's show that it's appropriate not to show consideration for others. Great example, "Mom." (I use the quotes around mom because it takes only working ovaries to have a child; there's no requirement for parental fitness.)
Amy Alkon at September 20, 2008 6:27 AM
My response to the underparented children that I've encountered is to act exactly like they do, in order to annoy their parents. If they kick my chair, I'll kick the chair or table that their parent is using, but make it look like it's not directed at them. If their kid is loud, I'll start a loud imaginary cell phone conversation about 1 foot away from them. Oddly enough, they notice me, but not their own kid.
Chrissy at September 20, 2008 7:39 AM
"....we were dressed for church, parties etc, it was just expected of us. Talking back to adults, making a scene in public, just was not allowed."
But then, your parents came from an age where they were well-parented themselves. Today's bovine bobble-heads are content to put their children out to graze in the vast pastures of TV, Web, computer gaming, and teachers-are-responsible-for-everything subschooling, and when they get busted for the inevitably-resulting brat's behavior, go into attack mode to get out of feeling shame for their failure.
I was on a plane the other day with two overfed American parents and their porcine child, just back from a trip to Disneysomething. The pushiness, the demanding, the rudeness was incredible. And the child was bad too.
More coffee. I'll calm down after another cup.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at September 20, 2008 7:43 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2008/09/20/do_youuuuu_have.html#comment-1591883">comment from Gog_Magog_Carpet_ReclaimersMy neighbors raise their children as if they're living in another time. The mother is actually horrified if the children are making noise where they might be disturbing somebody. All too rare, and why I have a soft spot for their kids. Oh yeah, and if one of the kids should act up when the father is home, there is no discussion: The dad says, "Okay, that's it. Go to your room." And the kid does. I think, as somebody else pointed out, that these boundaries actually make it easier for a kid -- in the short run and the long.
One thing I have observed in France is how much stricter the parents are with the kids. France is a country of rules, and the children are made to obey and are treated as second-class citizens to adults in terms of having their whims met, unlike here.
Also, in France, strangers will reprimand a misbehaving child and parents do not go psycho in response. No, France is not the be all and end all, but they know a thing about raising kids that we seem to have long-since forgotten.
Amy Alkon at September 20, 2008 7:53 AM
I stumbled quite accidently into a nest of idiocy not long ago online. A friend told me I should join the austined yahoogroup, as my kids are getting to be school age and I think a good education is important. So I did. Well, it's an offshoot of an attached parenting board, and these people are wacko!!!!!!!! They do things they call "gentle parenting" which, as far as they will explain it to me given my incredulity, involves never telling a kid no, or shaming them with punishment, and certainly no spanking ever! Also, breastfeeding until age 5 in some cases, and cosleeping with prescholers (actually going to bed at the preschoolers time. HOW can you stay married with all your kids in your bed and no adult time?) and all sorts of other nonsense.
I don't know how they expect their kids to be able to function in this world. They actually go school-shopping (hence the education group) to find schools that will adhere to these philosophies. So, the first time these kids ever hear no will probably be when colleges refuse to admit them. So sad.
My kids have been known to jumo and kick. But I stop them. That's for the playground, which we go to daily to burn off htat energy, not a restaurant.
momof3 at September 20, 2008 8:11 AM
Momof3,
Shawn Johnson, the Olympic gymnastic medalist, lives in the same town I do. (She's quite the local celebrity - I hear she's actually a very sweet, nice girl.) Her parents were being interviewed on a local radio station, and they were asked how Shawn got into gymnastics. Her mother replied that Shawn had a ton of energy as a little girl - was just this really active, go-go-go kid - so they got her into gymnastics to burn off her energy, so they could all get some sleep. Shawn LOVED it - once she got into it, they could hardly get her out of the gym.
Most parents would put their kids on Ritalin. These parents, on the other hand, got one helluva retirement plan!
Pirate Jo at September 20, 2008 8:19 AM
Amy, them asking you if you have children is almost as dumb as someone saying it's patriotic to pay more taxes.
But in both cases, such lines have been field tested to provide a similar response of guilt; in your case of "daring" to suggest that they actually stand up to the plate and take on the responsibilities of the role they accepted.
The closest analogy would be what might occur if you commented on the bad behavior of someone who happened to be black. An effective retort by such a person would be this: "You don't understand everything I've had to deal with in my life. You're a racist."
As to the pair of mother poseurs, I don't generally advocate lying but here's a great white lie for the occasion: "I did have 2 children but they were eating peanut butter sandwiches one day and killed by a pack of rabid squirrels. How dare you remind me of my loss in such a terrible way..." and then storm off to the restroom.
Nasty, yes. But any less inappropriate than their conversation ender?
Robert W. at September 20, 2008 9:28 AM
Parents like those are part of the set who view thier children as fashion accessories and that they're all feral little creatures who can't be controlled. Then they wonder why their kids turn out batshit insane in their teens, drugged out/depressed etc..
I have infinitely more respect for people who don't want to be parents (you evil selfish money obsessed bastards!!) for various reasons compared to the people who pop out a few crotchspawn and then let the nannies/tv/etc. raise their kids. Especially when if I dare rip into their parenting inadequacies or their precious little rugrats for acting badly, I'm a "potential sex abuser", don't know anything about kids or some such other insanity. So thats why I'm not going to bust my ass to save or watch out for your kid(s) if they get into trouble. I know nothing as I'm a non parent and a possible molester if I even look in the direction of kids.
Sio at September 20, 2008 10:05 AM
I don't have children, but I have 2 nephews (15 and 13) and a niece (2 and a half) and I spend a lot of time with them. When we go to a restaurant they behave like little adults and if they don’t, they get told no loud and clear, either by me, my sister or my parents, depending on who is with them or if we are all with them, who says no first. I may not be a parent, but I know how to parent since I am in my mid 30s and have young relatives and friends with kids. I spoil my nephews and niece rotten, but I’m also very strict with them and you know what they love and respect me for it. I’ve asked my nephews if they think I’m too strict before and their answer was no can we spend the night at your house tonight. When they were toddlers if I told them to do something and they didn’t, I’d pick them up and have them do it, like washing their hands. It amazes me that parents don’t watch their children and let them act like baboons, I would be mortified if my niece was jumping on a chair and staring at other people (which little kids will stare, you just have to tell them it’s not polite and get their attention back to you and your table). My sister is intelligent enough to not get upset if me or my parents correct the kids while she’s around and we all do. In our family, if someone has a child, we are all responsible for the child’s upbringing. If your child is misbehaving, correct them or you’re going to end up with a 30 year old who holds his or her breath until you give them what they want. Personally, I find other people’s children annoying, especially kids with no discipline. I also find it unbelievable that a mother could say she’s talking to a 4 year old as though they are idiots, hello do you pay any attention to your kid, my niece isn’t even 3 yet and she speaks very well, understands what you say to her and most importantly knows what the word no is, even if she doesn’t want to listen to it. Four year olds are not mentally challenged human beings, they are just young and are perfectly capable of understanding the word no. I think it should be a law that stupid people shouldn’t bread, lol.
Nina at September 20, 2008 10:09 AM
I meant breed, not bread, oops. Maybe I shouldn't be breading, lol.
Nina at September 20, 2008 10:11 AM
My special needs kid is much better behaved, thank you. She knows to sit nicely and eat as neatly as her poor fine motor skills permit. She has some limits on her abilities, not cart blanche to run about.
Ruth at September 20, 2008 10:29 AM
We have a teacher at our school (private, not public therefore no union to provide backup) who is thinking about leaving after only 6 years. Reason? A little background; she had a student in her 1st grade class who chose to not do his classwork. So Teacher said, "Fine. While everyone else goes out for recess, you may stay inside and finish your assignment." Makes perfect sense, especially considering that this is what all the teachers do, what this teacher's own children had to do at the same school for such behavior. When Mumsy came to pick up Junior, he breaks out the teary show about how unfair, horrible and cruel Teacher is. Mumsy's first response? Not to talk to Teacher, not to go to Principal, but went straight to the Superintendent of the school. Talk about insane. Junior then learns at the feet of the master; when consequences are brought to bear for your (in)actions, the disproportionately outraged response is the first response. Second lesson; teachers don't deserve any respect. Third; dramatic overreacting gets results. Teacher had to apologize to Mumsy and Child. Now Teacher is considering quitting, and it will be a huge loss as most of the children adore her, and she's quite phenomenal at her job.
I'm trying to figure out what this Mumsy drives so I can deflate her tires in the parking lot someday, just to see how she handles it.
juliana at September 20, 2008 11:03 AM
When I think of Amy in the stare down with the 4 year old, I think of the scene with Jim Carrey and the kid in Me Myself and Irene.
I always hated kids. Of course God's punishment for me is that I am raising a son as a single parent. Note to self: never trust the doctor/wife to actually be taking her pill.
So I changed my attitude to make sure I could be a good father. And now that I am more or less a soccer mom, I see these little shits and their parents continually. My experience is that about 25% of the parents/kids are insanely unqualified to participate in society. At the same time, my son who is 8, has developed a remarkable ability to separate himself from the uncontrolled devil children. Upon recently celebrating his 8th birthday, I noticed two of his friends suspiciously and specifially were not invited. When I asked him afterwards, he explained that he stayed away from them because they constantly got in trouble at school. Now I would rather crawl naked through barb wire than spend the evening at Chuck E Cheese, but I did learn that my son chooses friends that behave, which helps me sleep better at night.
My son is no angel, but he obeys the rules and tries hard to avoid shame and embarassment, a trait that is rare among many children and adults these days. And because his mother abandonded us (well, with my foot up her ass), I have encouraged understanding and empathy in his growth and learning.
I may be old school, but I welcome critique of my son's behavior. Usually this comes from family and friends, although strangers have complimented my son on his behavior in public. And when shitty behavior occurs it sucks to be the bad guy, but I am dad first and friend later. My experience is that these little shitty spoiled kids are being 'parented' by little shitty spoiled parents. In that respect, I feel sorry for the kids, because they behave as they are being taught.
They say it takes a village to raise a child, but as Air Force recruiters have known for some time, it only takes one child to raze a village. Can't remember where I heard that, but it definitely applies to one of the demon spawn in my neighborhood.
Sterling at September 20, 2008 11:03 AM
> One thing I have observed in France
> is how much stricter the parents are
> with the kids. France is a country
> of rules,
Yes yes, but at the end of that process, you have a Frenchman. So there's that.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at September 20, 2008 11:14 AM
He. My own hellspawn are little angels in public, always. They are fully aware of the consequences if they are not. I've been complimented a lot on their behaviour, but once, when #1 was 4 or 5, and she had misbehaved quite badly after one of her aunts brought her home, I asked her why she was so well-behaved when she was with everyone else but me, and she said "But mom, I save my badness for home!"
I was kind of distraught about that, so at her next doctor's appointment, I related that to the pediatrician, who said, "you must be a great mom; she's comfortable knowing she can misbehave with you and you'll still love her, but that you expect her to be on her best behaviour with others, so she is." o_O
Flynne at September 20, 2008 11:34 AM
Amy, I'm a parent and a grandparent and you were much politer than I would have been!
T's Grammy at September 20, 2008 12:17 PM
I know some parents with, erm, "spirited" kids. They tend to get overstimulated easily and deal with it poorly. Four is an age at which spirited kids tend to be at their worst in terms of behavior.
That having been said, responsible parents of spirited four-year-olds take them out of cafes when their behavior becomes uncontrollable, apologizing all of the way. What you were describing doesn't sound like a meltdown. At all. It sounds like a kid being severely underparented. Which is horribly, HORRIBLY annoying to me, and I like kids as a rule.
There are some things about parenting that non-parents aren't going to be able to understand, just as there are things about being an advice columnist that non-advice columnists aren't going to understand. But when a child's behavior affects people outside of his family in a negative way, it's the job of his parent or parents to seek to mitigate that effect, quickly. You don't have children because, among many other reasons, you don't want to have to deal with the bad behavior of children in a significant way. I see no reason why this woman's decision to have a child should impose on your deliberate childlessness in a significant and negative way.
Next time, though? I'd respond with: "Oh, I thought that was your grandchild!"
What? I'm mean, people, mean.
marion at September 20, 2008 12:23 PM
... And we love you for it.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at September 20, 2008 12:46 PM
We do.
And you hit on something Marion -- that kid didn't belong in that cafe. Not for any length of time. He had too much energy, and was bored sitting there. I can't remember if he had any toy or anything with him, but I can't remember him being occupied with anything but bouncing, kicking, and staring.
This was the parent's fault (or rather, the "parent") for taking a kid to a place he wasn't ready to be in, per the requirements of the place...ie, not acting like a baby baboon.
Amy Alkon at September 20, 2008 3:43 PM
You time the amount of time the kid can be in the cafe by the amount of time you know they are able to sit still, depending on age. I would order my meal and son's kiddy meal, then I'd take him outside to run around, and Dad would tell us when the food came, in we'd go and have a nice quiet meal. You have to stay on your toes and be one step ahead , and figure out how you can have a nice meal, keep antsy behavior at a minimum, and not bother others.For a while when our son was between 1 and 2 we always refused ice water because Junior's great joy was to plunge his little hand in it up to the wrist to grab the ice cubes.Knowing your child's quirks, habits and temperament and working around it is too much work for some?
I was on a train to Osaka from Kobe a couple of years ago and the little boy next to me was kicking my skirt. I saw his mother glance sideways and see it, but not do anything. I said to the little boy 'Please stop kicking me, you'll dirty my skirt with your shoes' Mum pipes up with 'See? You made that lady angry, stop it!' I asked her 'So if I hadn't said anything, it was okay for him to kick all the way to Osaka?'
Some Japanese mums lately don't want to be the bad guy, so they say 'Oh! You made that person angry/caused them trouble, so you'd better stop!' The most ridiculous example I ever heard was, when kid was throwing rocks at our dog and it barked 'Oh you made the dog angry , stop that!' Oi! Throwing rocks at a dog is WRONG, that's why he has to stop....they don't realize that this 'other people are watching' discipline gives kids license to do anything they want when nobody's watching, as nothing's internalized...they are not behaving for the right reasons.
I am asked to give talks sometimes, the views of an American in Japan type of thing, and people always ask me about raising kids, I always get in a bit about 'stop that people are watching' is not a great idea. I hope it catches on :-)
'Attachment parenting' has been warped over the years from an old-fashioned parenting philosophy (breastfeed to hunger, not a set time on the clock, sleep with/near baby) to what someone described above. That's not parenting, that's keeping your kids dependent so you don't have to deal with them as separate entities that need time and a different kind of attention.
crella at September 20, 2008 4:57 PM
The woman laughed a bitter laugh, and remarked to her friend, "She's talking to a 4-year-old!"
I have a nine month old at home. He does the sorts of things babies do, especially putting things in his mouth. Being a baby, he doesn't differentiate much, whatever it is it goes in the mouth, unless it tastes bad.
Last week, we were eating out (at an appropriate venue to which to take an infant) and he managed to get his little paws on a piece of gum someone had "kindly" left him on the bottom of the tabletop. I saw it as it was making it's way to his gaping maw and said firmly and slightly louder than my normal speaking voice, "NO!" His had stopped, he looked up at me - scowled a little and put the gum down on the table.
We have since discovered that telling him no is rather effective - even if it pisses him off sometimes.
People who subscribe to this notion that kids just don't/can't know any better, are just working very hard to fuck up their kids. Because they're most assuredly wrong.
DuWayne at September 20, 2008 5:05 PM
The more I think about Marion's taunt, the more I like it. At least when I was a little kid, there was a popular stereotype of the grandparents as indulgent caretaker, buying candy and treats and generally letting the kids run wild, since they knew it was the intermediate generation that was going to have to clean up the mess.
Plus, again, it was mean. So I'm into it.
> Some Japanese mums lately don't
> want to be the bad guy
The worst case I ever saw was at this resort hotel with a kid who happened to be Japanese. That part of Micronesia is essentially the Caribbean of Japan in terms of its tourists. I was there on a scuba trip with about twenty other people. On the weekend we were there after getting off the dive boat, this one couple had an eleven-ish-year-old boy who was screeching and whining like a four year old. The mother (or stepmother or caretaker, or whoever was holding his hand as he stormed through the place) was making no effort to get his behavior under control. It wasn't just the noise and crying out for food or water or the bathroom, it was also the body language... The kid was making zero effort to grow into adult habits. I remember thinking that puberty was gonna be a nightmare for that guy, and for the people around him.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at September 20, 2008 5:48 PM
As the mother of a very hyper-active kid, there is a huge difference between poor behavior and temper tantrums. Even the best behaved kid can throw a tantrum given the right circumstances, and parents should remove the child immediately if it's at all possible.
I've left full grocery carts in the middle of of the isle at the market. But sometimes it's not possible to leave, and most people, whether they are parents or not, empathize when a kid throws a tantrum.
I'll never forget the day I got gas at a convenience store. I pumped the gas and then went in the store to pay. There were four or five people in line ahead of us. My daughter was about 4 or 5. We were at the end of the line and there was this display with the junk that milk stores sell. They were mini bobble head dolls. Dogs. OK, there were slightly cute, but they were 7 bucks and I said "no".
The line wasn't moving very fast. Powerball must have been up to around 800 zillion because everybody in line was buying lottery tickets and it was taking forever. My kid starts to whine. She wants the stupid dog. I said "no". She whines louder. I ignore it. The whines starts to turn into a shriek. I get sympathetic looks from the other customers.
Just before she is about to throw a full blown tantrum, which meant she'd be on the floor howling, the kid behind the counter stands up on his tip toes, leans over the counter, and says right to my daughter:
"Are YOU throwing a tantrum in MY store?"
Well. That stopped her dead in her tracks. She was shocked. For about 10 seconds. Then she got behind me, buried her head in the back of my legs, and burst into tears. It was great. I mouthed "thank you" to the kid (he couldn't have been more than 18), and we got through the line, I paid, and we went home.
I taught my daughter restaurant manners at McDonald's and Burger King. That play room is a great incentive to train a kid to sit still and eat, and we left many times when she refused to obey. I didn't see the inside of a sit-down, decent, restaurant until she was 5.
It took a long time, but it worked. She's almost 16 now, but my fondest memories of when she was little were our lunches at Friday's. We went every Saturday. Friday's may not seem like a luxury to most people, but for me it was heaven. To go into a restaurant, sit down and get waited on, have a couple of beers. It was such a treat and we had some of our best conversations. It took years to get her to the point where she could sit still, but it was worth it.
There is no excuse for a 4 year old acting like a toddler. Even the most hyper-active kid, like mine, can be taught manners. You just have to be willing to take the time and make the effort.
I'll never understand parents who don't try. I shudder to think what that kid will be like at 8, or 12, or 16. If you can't control your kid when they're 4 you may as well resign yourself to a life of hell. Kids suck. There is absolutely nothing rewarding at all about being a parent. At least not yet for me.
Maybe when she's 25? Nah. I'll be dead by then.
Jaynie59 at September 20, 2008 6:51 PM
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
Bob Dylan at September 20, 2008 7:41 PM
And you don't need an overrated rock star to make impenetrable allusions.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at September 20, 2008 8:29 PM
@ Robert W
"The closest analogy would be what might occur if you commented on the bad behavior of someone who happened to be black."
You don't just happen to be black you either are or you aren't. I do know many black people do use past slights their people have suffered in the past to justify their misbehavior.
But they don't represent all black people, there are those who try and do the right thing everyday.
Same way as there are sucky parents out there, there are good ones too.
The sad thing though is that good parenting is indeed becoming a thing of the past.
acolyte at September 20, 2008 10:48 PM
Good parenting is NOT a thing of the past, nor need discipline be oppressive. My kids are all older now, and not one of them has much tolerance for "wild" younger kids, nor sympathy for their parents.
Amy, you could you but hear their comments after babysitting jobs, you would rest assured that there is hope for the future.
Mother of 5 Civilized Offspring at September 20, 2008 11:14 PM
Jaynie59: Well-raised adult kids are cool. I promise. Just wait until she has her first job and insists on treating you to dinner. Or comes to help you move and insists on carrying the heavy things. As my friends and I occasionally tell our parents when we're insisting on taking on some tedious task, "This is why you had children in the first place!"
(Oh, they claim it was maternal/paternal feelings or something like that. Right. We all know it's because they wanted free tech support down the line, and that's fine.)
Also, mother-(grown) daughter bargain-hunting clothes shopping? Loads of fun. Especially if you have the same coloring but different dress sizes. "Well, this doesn't fit me - you try it!"
I can't remember if he had any toy or anything with him, but I can't remember him being occupied with anything but bouncing, kicking, and staring.
Yep, he sounded like the classic bored kid to me, and there was no reason for that. The mom couldn't have stuck a book or toy into her purse? This stuff isn't brain surgery. Adults are awful to be around when they're bored - why should small kids be any different? If I'm standing next to a mom with a wailing baby at a supermarket, I feel sympathy. If I'm sitting next to a mom with a misbehaving four-year-old at a cafe, I feel irritation.
marion at September 21, 2008 4:02 PM
""She's talking to a 4-year-old!""
Of course you were Amy, afterall you should always talk to the adult...
heh, one of the amusements of being a bearlike father of 2... Is when I look at a similar child misbahving, and say: "are you casuing trouble for your mother?" man has noticed that her kid is outta control. Guys on the other hand? I confront them directly: "You don't get that kid to toe the line now, they'll be uncontrollable as a teen. I have one, and it isn't pretty."
SwissArmyD at September 22, 2008 12:55 PM
One time there was a kid behind me on the airplane who, you guessed it, wouldn't stop kicking me. I asked him to stop, I asked his mom to stop him... all to no avail.
So finally after a particularly nasty kick, I slammed backwards into my seat, hard, jiggling his tray. His mother gasped, horrified. So did he.
But he stopped kicking.
NicoleK at September 22, 2008 7:28 PM
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