Hi, Brian!

Finally! I am so sick of the whiny "government should give me healthcare" people, most of whom own cars and houses, and wear nice clothes. Choices, people. Make yours and quite whining.

I don't know. It seems to me that health care should be something basic... like firemen or policemen. I mean, could you imagine if your house was burning down, and the firemen wouldn't come put it out because you didn't have fireman insurance?

Why should firemen and policemen be paid for, but not health care?

Also, when I was living in CA from 1999-2001, I paid for my own insurance out there, $130 a month, great coverage, dental, etc. Then I moved to Boston, several months later, where a slightly worse plan was $320 a month. Within a couple years it had blossomed to $460 a month, but luckily by then I had Grad School, and then Employment insurance.

It seems to me the costs are increasing faster than inflation.

Because the State has an interest in keeping citizens from committing crime. That's why so many crimes are crimes against the State by definition, no complainant required. Ditto with fire. It can spread and burn a whole city quite quickly, so the State has an interest in that as well.

You being able to have healthcare, as well as 15 pairs of shoes, a closet full of clothes, a $30,000 car, and a home you own is no interest of the State's. Or, it shouldn't be.

"I don't know. It seems to me that health care should be something basic... like firemen or policemen. I mean, could you imagine if your house was burning down, and the firemen wouldn't come put it out because you didn't have fireman insurance?"

This is really a bad example. Sure, the fireman will put out the fire, but unless you actually have fire insurance, noboby will replace your home and all of your belongings. But nobody is asking the government to provide homeowner's insurance, fire and flood insurance, car insurance and so forth. I don't see the difference.

The state has an interest in keeping people healthy, because unhealthy people cost the state money.

People with $15,000 handbags and no health insurance are idiots, but that's a small number of people compared to, say, someone with a preexisting condition who can't afford health insurance no matter how many art openings she goes to for free entertainment.

I still remember what happened to me, almost twenty years ago. I was in my early twenties and paying $80 a month for health insurance with a $1,500 deductible. It didn't take me long to put aside the deductible's amount in the bank. Mind you, this was all out of pocket -- no big daddy employer paying my insurance. But, I was young and healthy, so why should I have had to pay any more than that, right?

Well, I guess New York State decided it was unfair to be young and healthy, because they passed a law that put into effect something called "community pricing." My rate jumped from $80 to $240 per month.

Needless to say, I did not want to pay that. And so, I went a long time without health care.

A lot of young people who forgo insurance and take the chance that they'll wind up charity cases in the emergency room (actually, not charity, because the hospitals are forced to take you) wouldn't need to take such chances if the government would stay out of health care.

I suppose I could have sipped water and showed up for free wine, too. There's nothing wrong with that. But for all the people that choose to rely on their youth as their primary health insurance policy, the government's meddling is far more responsible for that than are they.

good point, wandering jew.

But unhealthy people can also be like a fire... think of the flu epidemics that wiped out tons of people in the early 1900s. Like a fire that spreads from one house to another, so does a disease.

Just as a government does not have a vested interest in your personal house not burning down, but DOES have a vested interest in making sure your house doesn't catch down and then catch the neighbors' houses on fire, doesn't it have an interest in making sure diseases don't spread?

It's not an issue that currently affects me, I'm quite happy with my insurance situation, but I do wonder.

So, here's another question... should the police be privatized? Do you think they would be more effective if they were?

Um. Check out Amy all in black on that book cover. Hot as hell.

Now back to insurance...

"So, here's another question... should the police be privatized? Do you think they would be more effective if they were?"

Well, they might be less interested in pursuing non-violent drug users, etc., instead of actual, real criminals, as opposed to the current process.

And as for those who can't get insurance because of pre-existing conditions, why didn't they get insurance earlier?

Part of the problem in that area are those who think, 'it won't happen to me', and then, when it does, they're stuck, because they waited until it was a problem.

If we're being honest here, universal health care (whatever that *really* means) won't help these people either. At best, they'll get a bed somewhere, with a drip in their arm, for as long as it takes. They're not going to get the magical 'stop being sick' card that the government enabled health care evangelists seem to believe is going to be the solution.

There *are* some (fairly small, most likely) percentage of people who truly cannot afford their own insurance, and I'm not particularly bothered by the idea of giving them some assistance in that area.

I don't really see the benefit in subsidizing the more significant number of people who think that a new shirt or phone is more important than their health insurance, thereby foisting off upon the rest of us the cost of their stupidity.

Rod; you're assuming that those people with pre-existing conditions didn't have health care before they got them. My uncle was dropped after he had a heart attack, and the only reason
he can afford health care is because my aunt's work will cover him. The cheapest private insurance he can get is well out of their price range.

Private police force-shudder. Because the airport idiots, and mercenaries in Irag, do such great work.

The police enforce the law. Don't like it, work to change the laws. They are not allowed discretion in what they do and do not persue, legally. That's why we have must-arrest laws, to take all discretion from them.

Yeah, diseases can spread like fire. But giving people government healthcare is extreme. How about flu shot clinics? Oh wait, we've got those, all subsidized just for poor people.

Besides, pandemics are good for humanity as a whole. Something has to thin our herd. We've all heard the predictions about what the world would look like if not for the black plague in the middle ages. And yes, I have lots of family I'd hate to see die, including kids, and I wouldn't be so hot to go myself, but I recognize death is needed. That's why I really don't get those people, scientists included, who use the "what if we could live forever??" argument for things like stem cell research. How absolutely terrifying, to be able to live forever. Besides, it would only be certain people living forever. And we all know who it'd be (not us). And if no one died, at a certain point, no one could be born anymore. Humanity would then be dead, even if still walking around. We need rebirth and renewal.

And we already assist people who genuinely can't afford healthcare. It's called medicaid. There is an income limit, and the assumption is people above that limit are choosing to purchase things other than healthcare. And medicaid care sucks. Something we can all look forward to with government care.

Here's the problem:
when I was living in CA from 1999-2001, I paid for my own insurance out there, $130 a month, great coverage, dental, etc. Then I moved to Boston, several months later, where a slightly worse plan was $320 a month. Within a couple years it had blossomed to $460 a month
- - - - - - - - -

.... and here:
Well, I guess New York State decided it was unfair to be young and healthy, because they passed a law that put into effect something called "community pricing." My rate jumped from $80 to $240 per month.
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Yep. Each state legislature has piled on entitlements and other schemes. This means there is no national market for health care.

No competition, no efficiency, high prices.

That doesn't mean we should replace this with an even more inefficient National Health Service.

There are already efforts (by Republican members of Congress) to create a nationwide market for health insurance. One bill would a citizen to buy any policy offered in any state - bingo!

Large markets = large risk pools + efficient management.

Which translates into lower costs.

People with pre-existing conditions would find it easier to get insurance because risks are spread out over larger numbers.

Another step would be to define some basic levels of care - so people know what basket of services they are buying, and can compare apples to apples.

OK... I don't think we want to start encouraging pandemics, or genocide, or any other mass slaughters of people because they are good for the world in the long run. I don't think anyone would get very far on that platform! :)

It seems to me that health care should be something basic... like firemen or policemen. I mean, could you imagine if your house was burning down, and the firemen wouldn't come put it out because you didn't have fireman insurance?

The paramedics will come out, patch you up, and haul your ass to the hospital if you're injured, sick, or otherwise incapacitated and in need of immediate medical care. They won't ask for your HMO card or refuse to help you. Ditto with emergency rooms.

But, as Karen, pointed out in her earlier post: "...the fireman will put out the fire, but unless you actually have fire insurance, noboby will replace your home and all of your belongings."

Same with health insurance. The paramedics and ER doctors will stabilize you, but physical therapy and/or extended treatment is up to you and your health insurance plan.

Each state legislature has piled on entitlements and other schemes. This means there is no national market for health care.

By law, insurance is regulated by the states, not the federal government. That's one of the reason's it's so expensive.

One aspect of McCain's proposed healthcare plan is to allow cross-state insurance coverage. Meaning for the first time we'd be able to choose insurance from anywhere in the US and would have a national insurance market.

The cross-state plan is more likely to result in insurance companies moving to the state with the least regulation and oversight. That would hardly lower prices.

Non-insured emergency care is incredibly expensive, and is another reason insurance premiums are up, not to mention the traffic in the ERs which is dangerous and even deadly. If you don't opt for, or can't afford, physical therapy and extended care, you are much more likely to end up in an emergency room again. It is in the state's interest to have a healthy populace, not just for feel-good reasons but for financial ones.

It is difficult for fiscal conservatives and freemarket capitalists (like myself) to accept that a certain level of nationalized health care is worth it. But the tribulations of the human body don't fit neatly into the capitalist system. Barring a fatal accident after an incredibly healthy life, we all get sick. This certainty runs contrary to how people behave as consumers, and unless we want to punish people for that - ie, deny them emergency care and let them die - we have to pick up the tab. Which we're doing anyway, as taxpayers and insured people.

One of the few things that Obama has ever said that made sense to me is the story of his mother dying of cancer and arguing with insurance companies. We've all likely experienced such arguments, and aside from being immoral they're expensive.

There's lots of people who don't have health insurance because they'd rather have a new car, or not work full-time at something dull, or go to Maui. Look at any waiters' station.

But contagious diseases aren't the primary reason for health insurance. Flu shots are pretty cheap.

I'm all for cheaper health care, but I don't want the same idiots who run the post office or the IRS or any number of crumbling civil services to run it. I think anyone who works for the government is basically too stupid to get a real job.

Look I understand the problems with government health care but, frankly, currently a lot of our problems are caused by the power health insurers weild over our health care choices.

I'm having a bitch of a time under my insurance finding a primary care I can get to and finally found one that can take me after the first of the year. It's an improvement. Only others accepting both my insurance and new patients, the wait's until March. And I'm in poor ass health -- a lot with it's roots in malnutrition when I was a child. Excuse me if I feel fucked by health insurers (and my asshole parents).

I woke up and couldn't walk a little over two weeks ago. Now I owe a co-pay of $50 for going to the ER. And the follow up with an orthopedic specialist has me desperately seeking a physical therapist. Even if I find one, my co-pay per visit is $12 a pop (set to rise to $15 after 1/1) and he's recommending 2-3 times a week -- which my insurer; may they rot in hell -- has to approve periodically. If they do approve it (and I'm assuming they will, can't argue with facts), I don't know how the fuck I am going to afford $100 - $200 more a month out of my tight budget.

Tell me again, what the fuck I have insurance for? Oh, yeah, I probably wouldn't me walking right now if not for it. Probably since NY's ER's do have to take the uninsured. But I'm supposed to have health insurance so I can afford health care. These goddamned co-pays mean that if I get the care I need, money I was putting aside for retirement will go to a physical therapist. Money I need. Unless you think that I can really work 'til I die when I'm having trouble walking.

Government may not be the answer but neither is health insurance. They get away with paying as little as they can. The fact that we pay a premium for health care and then have to pay a co-pay to see the doctor (which acts as a deterrant to those of us who need the money to pay rent, not buy an i-phone) is a laugh. That insurers get to say what health care we can or cannot get is also a joke. They are not the golden ticket people even when you can afford them.

And, yeah, at this point, I do not think that I could do what I wanted to do if I left my employer and buy my own. I don't even want to think about what the premiums would be on a 50 year old post-menopausal person suffering from a bone disease that has it's roots in the fact that I did not have milk to drink in my childhood. If I'd even be able to get coverage.

Fuck the health insurance companies and their scam.

Government may not be the best option but neither or they.

Maybe some kind of combination where neither gets to be Nazi's dictating what you get healthwise. It makes absolutely no sense to me that I've been insured for-fucking-ever and a coworker of mine recently got stomache stapling covered but I've got to worry about coverage to keep me walking!

No, the God damned insurance companies aren't all that. They are just after a buck. They need more fucking government oversight. And let's do away with the God-damned co-pays!

Good God-damned thing I have a daughter.

Mr Gillespie has made of aware of those individuals who could but don't. That doesn't help those who try and get abused for the effort.

My family is "Middle Class" and my health insurance and medical issues are torturing me financially. Come to my house and I'll show you my budget and the reason we do what we do with our money. He didn't cover the average middle class family struggling with their health insurance and it's lack of provision.

We've had group health insurance for the last 20+ years. In the last 4 years we've had to actually use it and it has been pure misery. Sure, everything is covered when you buy the policy but things change when you start using it. In-network / Out-of-Network, bills from assistants I didn't know about, undifined costs, sheesh, seems like you don't stand a chance. If something is out-of-network then standard/customary doesn't apply so everyone can try and get you for everything they can. WHAT A MESS!

I pay nearly $6,000, and growing, in premiums every year. We've had 2 out-patient surgeries in our family in the last two years, and have maxed out the rest of our insurance requirements but still paid more than $5,000 out of pocket. The basic math says we paid more than $11,000 each year for health coverage protection.

So, why do I have insurance?

Complaining hasn't done me or anyone else I know any good in this arena so I'm proposing a new PUBLIC outcry. Please visit my website http://www.stoprapingme.org and get involved. There are images to send to people that they might send to others, and they . . . Hopefully we can mobilize a public outcry and determine some stop-gap solutions that will start a reform action.

But, Amy, the health insurers aren't the answer either. Because they'll get out of paying every dime they can on any flimsy excuse they can dream up. The only HMO's available in my area are off the buslines and cost more than the crappy insurance I do have.

Maybe what we need is insurance but with government oversight and some form of suspension of premiums if your income falls because of becoming ill/injured (disabled). I've read cases of people losing coverage they've had for years because of this. Government plans in other countries may be a mess but at least people get care and don't have to fear that they won't if they fall ill and are unable to pay their premiums.

The problem with relying soley on insurance is that the insurance companies are in it to make a buck, plain and simple. They aren't going to shell out one plumb nickel more than they have to.
We need some solution but the insurance companies ain't it. I see the problems as they've been pointed out with government taking it over but I trust them further than I do for-profit companies.

Mike, I'll check out that site.