I love it! Put your money where your mouth is. Except, bama has no intention of putting his own money htere, only other people's. Just like all powerful people.

Y'know, on my electric utility bill, there's a space you can check if you want to "donate" to some fund or other to help the people who can't make their utility payments - does anyone ever really check that and pay more than their bill??? o.O

I seem to recall President Bush actually challenging Democrats on that very point at the last State of the Union Message.

I'm tired of Obama and other economically illiterate people's crap. Scrap the progressive tax system and implement a flat tax rate. Or if that is not possible, the lesser of two evils; a negative tax rate as Friedman once proposed.

I'm not speaking for Barack Obama here. But for myself, I think that having a ten-trillion dollar debt is bad for our country and a large part of the reason for the current financial crisis. If they raised taxes in order to lower the debt, I'd be happy to pay my share. But I don't want to pay extra so you don't have to. Big difference.

I think it's perfectly rational to both call for higher taxes, and decline to voluntarily pay higher taxes yourself. It's a bit unfair to not recognise that in a criticism of someone calling for higher taxes.

Suppose that I know that if I pay higher taxes, it will not make a significant difference in the services provided by the government (or perhaps the governments long term financial stability, or some other social good). But, say I also know that if I am compelled to pay higher taxes, along with absolutely everyone else, that the significantly higher tax revenue will result in a social good that I view as more beneficial to me than the cost of my higher taxes.

So, if tax law changes to go higher, I win. I should agitate for this. But, absent that, I should just keep the money, that's better for me than donating it to the government.

In that situation, which I don't think is all that crazy (though there's two big suppositions), it's perfectly reasonable to call for higher taxes and decline to voluntarily remit them. A big part of taxes is that everyone pays them, not me.

The main thing to remember here, though, is, that if each and every one of us didn't pay our fair share of taxes, then we could all afford really nice boats.

Dinky,

I wouldn't give them a dime to lower the debt. They would just go out and blow it on more useless programs that don't work, graft, and vote buying.

I don't live beyond my means. I don't want my government to, either. But I'm a realist. Ever since the "Compassionate Conservative" took office, the fiscal conservatives lost their way. We now have "Real Dem" and "Dem Lite."

It will end, badly. We elect morons who continually spend money they don't have. At some point, no one will lend more. The government can print more money, but inflation will kill its value. When they need to start using that Social Security "surplus" to pay benefits and find a drawer full of IOUs, it will hit home. Benefits will be cut. They won't call it a cut, it will be a "raised retirement age" or a "tax" on benefits to the "rich" or whatever, but you won't get what you expect. You can't. The money isn't there.

This may be slightly off-topic, but I have often found it ironic that Warren Buffet, who is apparently a supporter of Obama, donated a huge portion of his wealth, something like $30 Billion to charity. Here is a link:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-06-25-buffett-charity_x.htm

Just think: if he had kept that money until he died, the government would have taken close to 50% of that, $15 BILLION, in estate taxes.

Boy, the federal government REALLY could have used that money. It's a shame Obama did not get to Buffett before he made such a selfish and unpatriotic, to use Biden's words, donation to charity.

-Jut

"Why not call for those who'd like to donate to do so?"

Because it's not really about spreading the wealth to do good, it's about the power to take people's wealth to spread as he sees fit. In the same vein, why insist on raising taxes on investors and corporations in a recession, in the face of irrefutable evidence that doing so would actually lower tax revenues and deepen the recession?

Bear in mind we are talking about the same man who vowed in June to use only public funds for his campaign. He didn't stick by that very long once he realized he was a serious contender.

http://deceiver.com/2008/06/19/obama-breaks-promise-to-use-public-campaign-cash/

The man is a hypocrite who wants to play with someone else's money. The idea of taxing people to make life "fair" disgusts me down to the marrow of my bones. I don't think he understands one thing about how economics really works. I don't trust the government with my money and I really don't understand people who do.

flynne -

...does anyone ever really check that and pay more than their bill???

At a time when I was making much more money, I would check it and throw five bucks a month in. I know a lot of folks who do. A little bit, from a lot of people, can make a huge difference. It's no different than donations to any other charity, except you know absolutely that the money is being used as intended, not a guarantee with a lot of charities. It's tax deductible and a huge help to those who are desperately in need.

I would also note that the biggest contributors to those funds are businesses. They can get a lot of tax advantages for doing so and it makes for great p.r.

Ironically, after probably putting in a few hundred over the years, that program was a huge help in keeping my own lights on in September. When I have the ability to do so again, you can bet I will do it again - only with a little more per month, if I can.

Like donating to food banks (food, time and occasionally skilled labor), I like to keep the tally to giving much more than I take. And unfortunately, I have needed food from them in the last few months. Not that I make such donations with the thought I might need the help myself some day, but having done so makes me feel less shitty about using the services. It's also nice to call a food bank for help and have the person on the phone recognize your voice and offer to drive the food over to you.

Being community oriented feels great and meshes with the way I was raised. But as I have pretty much lost it all over the last few months, it has shown another advantage. People have been crawling out of the woodwork to help. From offers of places to stay (thankfully, I made solid arrangements), to offers of food, to donations of cash to help us get back to MI - my community has rallied to help my family in our time of need. Because of all the help and the insistence of our friends and neighbors to take it, even when we had what we needed to get back, we are in a position to get a place when we get there. Having already gotten work lined up, this means we will only be with my folks for a couple of weeks, if that long.

And at the other end, my community remembers me and is also keen on helping. We will have help with child care, while momma goes in for evaluation and potential in-patient treatment or while she adjusts to medications. We will also have even more furniture, than we had before we lost our apartment - better too.

But, say I also know that if I am compelled to pay higher taxes, along with absolutely everyone else, that the significantly higher tax revenue will result in a social good that I view as more beneficial to me than the cost of my higher taxes.

You are assuming, like all agitators for higher taxes, that behavior will stay the same. That people who can will not change their behavior to avoid these new costs.

People who can will defer income or invest in foreign markets and only claim the income when they need the money.

People who are considering buying rental property as a money-maker will put off that decision.

People considering investing more money in the stock market will find themselves satisfied with their dinky CD returns.

People avoid costs whenever they can. The only people that will be hit with higher taxes are those not rich enough to avoid paying them.