What Is A Moderate Muslim?
People talk about "moderate Muslims," but are really quite unclear as to what that means. Robert Spencer clarifies with a list. Moderate muslims are people who:
1. Acknowledge the existence of and repudiate the traditional Islamic imperative, taught by all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence that Muslims recognize as orthodox, to impose Islamic law upon non-Muslims, whether by force or by stealth.2. Renounce any intention, now or in the future, to replace the U.S. Constitution with Islamic law.
3. Clarify, and call upon other Muslims in America to clarify, what is meant by the words "terrorism" and innocent" in Muslim condemnations of terrorism, so that it is clear that what is being condemned is the murder of American and other non-combatants by Muslims acting in the name of Islamic jihad.
4. Repudiate the idea that Muslims have a divine mandate to force, when possible, Jews, Christians, and other "People of the Book" to pay a special religion-based tax from which Muslims are exempt (Qur'an 9:29).
5. Call upon Muslims in America to institute comprehensive, honest, and transparent programs in mosques and Islamic schools, teaching the virtues of the non-establishment of religion, and teaching directly against Islamic supremacism and the idea that Muslims must fight against Jews and Christians until they "feel themselves subdued" (Qur'an 9:29).
6. Call upon Muslims in America to institute comprehensive, honest, and transparent programs in mosques and Islamic schools, teaching against honor killing, and against the idea--which is enshrined in Islamic law--that a parent faces no penalty for killing his or her own child (see 'Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2).
7. Call upon Muslims worldwide, including in Saudi Arabia, to end all institutionalized discrimination against and harassment of non-Muslims, and to allow churches and other houses of worship to be built in majority-Muslim countries with an ease comparable to that with which mosques are currently built in Western countries.
8. Repudiate the idea that a Muslim who renounces Islam and adopts any other faith or no faith at all should be killed--as is the teaching of Muhammad and all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence--and call upon Muslim groups in America to teach the freedom of conscience as a God-given right in American mosques and Islamic schools.
9. Call upon Muslims in America and worldwide to drop the traditional and authoritative Islamic prohibition of marriage between non-Muslim men and Muslim women, and to repudiate and teach against the idea of divinely sanctioned wife-beating (Qur'an 4:34).
10. Condemn Hamas and Hizballah as terrorist organizations, and the Islamic Republic of Iran for its continuing the barbaric practice of stoning people to death. Call upon Muslim groups to teach against stoning as a punishment for adultery or anything else in American mosques and Islamic schools.
What is a moderate muslim?
According to the list above there is no such thing ad any muslim who would endorse such actions woud be hunted down and killed.
Quite frankly the only good muslims are those who know as much about their faith as the average catholic knows about their - in other words practically nothing
lujlp at November 7, 2008 2:53 AM
You know what I really dont understand?
People claim to belive in this almighty being who can split seas, carve rock with his fingernails, alter all of humainties speech patterns at once, kill with a thought, and do all sorts of other really amazing stuff.
And yet never does anymore - why is that? If god is perfect then why did he change his MO
Why arent blasphemers struck down is the streets? Why arent there prophets roaming the earth curing entire cites of all disease?
Why is your all mighty all powerful god so fucking helpless and impotent?
lujlp at November 7, 2008 6:03 AM
Spencer is not describing moderate Muslims, he is describing ex-Muslims. To address those 10 points is to completely reject the Qur'an. And since the Qur'an is the law, they would be rejecting Islam.
A moderate Muslim has the same objectives as an Islamist. The only difference are the means by which the moderate wishes to achieve his objectives.
Islam is not just a religion. It is a combination of religion, cult, and political aspirations that amount to one seriously vile and disturbing set of beliefs.
Charles at November 7, 2008 6:24 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2008/11/07/what_is_a_moder.html#comment-1603511">comment from CharlesI'm aware of that, Charles. The late George Mason wrote about that:
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2007/12/04/the_religion_ba_1.html
Amy Alkon
at November 7, 2008 6:42 AM
I have no doubt you are aware of it Amy. I'm just trying to hammer the point home for those that may not quite understand what Islam is about.
Charles at November 7, 2008 8:29 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2008/11/07/what_is_a_moder.html#comment-1603542">comment from CharlesGlad you brought it up.
Amy Alkon
at November 7, 2008 9:20 AM
"Why is your mighty all powerful god so fucking helpless and impotent?"
Because he's a projection of his follower's helplessness and impotence.
The day before Khomeini laid down his fatwa against Rushdie, he was just an evil, deluded, sick and dying old man sitting on the throne of a backward country. By invoking the wrath of Allah, he instantly transformed into a mighty hero who could make the world tremble before him. At least in the eyes of a billion Muslims.
Does that make it a little easier to understand, luljp?
Martin at November 7, 2008 10:50 AM
Not really, ignorance is one of the few things I truly can not fathom.
I simply cannot understand why anyone would avoid learning
For example why does noone questions why an all powerful being needs a mortal to act on hd behalf
lujlp at November 7, 2008 11:00 AM
It sounds like people who call themselves moderate Muslims wouldn't be recognized as proper Muslims at all by most Muslims!
It reminds me of moderate Christians in some way. I'm originally from one of the most "fundamental Christian" parts of the country, and people who call themselves moderate Christians aren't regarded as Christians by fundamentals. Nowadays I'm like, oops, my Bible doesn't say I lose my salvation if I support equal rights for everybody, no distinctions drawn. But fundamentals would say that if I was a true Christian who believed in the inalienable word of Christ (i.e. each word in the Bible is literally true, given by the mouth of God, and has to be interpreted the exact same way the fundamentals say), I wouldn't support equal rights, so I must not have ever been a true Christian. Or else I'm horribly lapsed and it's their job to convert me back.
Ah, that was a tangent. Anyways.
The distinctions I see between these two situations, of course, is that first of all the fundamental Christians aren't going to try to murder me for being a traitor to my religion. They'll just try to talk me to death. And second of all, fundamental Christians are USUALLY content to fulminate in church against the evil ways of certain aspects of America. The most evil thing crazy fundamental Christians have done is (correct me if there's a more evil one) murder abortion doctors. Whereas crazy fundamental Muslims...
Katie at November 7, 2008 11:13 AM
I'd have to agree. I'd love for somebody to read that list on national television, and then watch and see how the supposed "moderates" react to what are, by any RATIONAL standard, perfectly normal and indeed necessary sentiments in a peaceful liberal society.
Robert at November 7, 2008 8:05 PM
Harry Eagar, a journalist friend of mine, made the point with the greatest possible lexical economy:
"The only good Muslim is a bad Muslim."
Hey Skipper at November 8, 2008 11:51 AM
"The only good Muslim is a bad Muslim."
Actually wouldn't it be:
"The only good Muslim is a dead Muslim."
Jim P. at November 8, 2008 6:51 PM
Islam is not just a religion. It is a combination of religion, cult, and political aspirations that amount to one seriously vile and disturbing set of beliefs.
What is truly brilliant about this observation is that it applies to every religion ever conceived by humankind.
Well done.
Grace Nearing at November 10, 2008 12:49 AM
first of all the fundamental Christians aren't going to try to murder me for being a traitor to my religion.
Actually the Dominionists would do just that. They want to establish a full blown Christian Theocratic dictatorship in the US. Maybe there should be a list for them too?
neon at November 10, 2008 1:48 AM
This looks like a good set of parameters to apply to all religions. Let's have one that replaces "Muslim" with "Christian" (and adjust other relevant terms accordingly) and require all Christians to adhere and comply with them. IOW, let's have an end to all this talk about this country being a "Christian Nation."
MonarchofAllISurvey at November 10, 2008 5:08 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2008/11/07/what_is_a_moder.html#comment-1604104">comment from neonfirst of all the fundamental Christians aren't going to try to murder me for being a traitor to my religion. Actually the Dominionists would do just that. They want to establish a full blown Christian Theocratic dictatorship in the US. Maybe there should be a list for them too?
I realize SadlyPathetic has put up a link to this entry -- I realized as soon as I saw these comments, because they're typical of the SadlyPathetics.
Here's how it works over here: You post something like this and you post something to source it. You don't just say that Christians want to murder people who don't believe in Christianity, which is, to anybody who lives in this country and isn't in a coma, obvious bullshit.
And FYI, I'm an atheist and no fan of any religion or Christian meddling in state affairs, but Christian preachers aren't preaching that others should be killed for not being Christian. Sure, there might be five Christians blowing up abortion clinics and advocating some radical stuff. In Canada, 12 percent of Canadian Muslims could get behind blowing up Parliament and murdering the Prime Minister in the name of Islam. That's 84,000 people.
And hey, why doesn't your pathetic website link to my entry about gay rights/Prop 8 and how disgusted I am about religion (Christianity, in this case) seeping into secular life? Still, some Christians want to legislate it so their way will be our way; their preachers aren't standing up and quoting parts of the Bible that suggest nonbelievers should be killed, or people should be stoned for adultery or for wearing two different fabrics (some of the ridiculousness in the Bible). Note that Aayan Hirsi Ali and numerous others have fatwahs against them calling for their death as enemies to Islam.
You forgot the one about Father Botros, the Islamic apostate with a price on his head. Or Sharia finance. Because your site is just a reason for adults to act like a junior high school gang, I guess you don't get into the details of Islam.
Do you see a whole lot of Christians advocating the stoning of women or the hanging of homosexuals? Christians I know help the homeless and do a lot of nice things for people. I think the evidence-free belief in god is silly, but I get notes from Christian readers that they're praying for me so I won't go to hell (ridiculous thought) not notes telling me I should be killed for not believing.
Amy Alkon
at November 10, 2008 5:50 AM