| "I thought it would be safe,"
| Freedom From Religion Foundation
| co-founder Annie Laurie Gaylor told
| CNN earlier Friday. "It's always a
| shock when your sign is censored...

Isn't that a little, um, precious? Don't you get the feeling that this woman really wanted it to happen, so that you could blog about it? Which happens more frequently, desecration of religious or of atheist iconography?

(Tough call: The graffiti you posted the other day probably qualifies as the latter.)

Anyway, speaking of the corruption of holiday iconography...

I thought the sign was a bit preachy. I hope they replace it with a better text.

Gee I don't know...putting up a sign extolling atheism next to a Nativity seems almost to be the equivalent of finger-wagging. They could have put it anywhere in town. Do we really want a society where whatever you do someone pops up and says 'You shouldn't do that'. We could sign and public-announcement ourselves to death for PCs sake but it doesn't sound like much fun. Go to an ice cream store and have signs from the anti-fattians ;-) on the windows telling us how bad ice cream is for us. It seems supercilious to me.

I am not saying that stealing the sign was right, I neglected to address that...I simply thought the sign was in poor taste.

What do you want to bet these people's kids have Santa and christmas trees? If you don't believe in what the holiday IS, you should not celebrate it, period. Enough of that "it's a secular holiday now" bullcrap. I steadfastly refuse to say Happy Holidays. It's Merry Christmas, people. Don't like it, don't celebrate.

Unless I know someone is jewish or hindu, in which case I have no problem wishing them the appropriate Happy _______. Still not happy holidays.

This is not a sign whose intent was to celebrate Solstice.

It is a sign whose sole intent was to insult Christians.

It's classless fucks like these militant Atheists what make me want to go to church.

crella -

Look at it from the perspective of non-religious folks who have been inundated their entire lives, with religious messages in public (i.e. taxpayer funded) venues. It's not about being pc, it's about saying that yes, atheists and other non-religious folks are people too - if you want to promote your faith in public venues, fine - but yours won't be the only thing promoted.

Honestly, I don't like the wording of the sign, but there is no reason not to put it exactly where it was. After all, the creche could be put up anywhere in town too. Why feel the need to have it up at the legislative building?

It's Merry Christmas, people. Don't like it, don't celebrate.

Don't forget Hanukkah. And if the pagans want whatever they have, fine.

But if you're going to say that you're a militant atheist, then you ought not to engage in celebration. Because any celebration timed to coincide with December is going to have you celebrating with religious types.

And you wouldn't want any of them to get the wrong idea, would you?

I tend to agree with Brian, except for the wanting to go to church part. The nativity is a sacred scene to Christians and posting a sign up next to it ridiculing the religion is just douchebaggery.

Also, if someone put a similar sign up next to a display of a religious tradition other that Christianity, people would decry it as bigotry.

momof3 spewed -

What do you want to bet these people's kids have Santa and christmas trees? If you don't believe in what the holiday IS, you should not celebrate it, period.

Ahh, the saab has spoken.

No you stupid cow, people have every right to celebrate what they damn well please, fuck you very much. Neither Santa nor christmas trees have much of anything to do with Christianity. The former is mythos that came from dubious Christian origins, but bears minimal resemblance to even those dubious origins. The latter was a nod by the religious to the pagan origins of Christmas, which was winter solstice.

I steadfastly refuse to say Happy Holidays.

Because there's a war on Christmas you know.

I say happy holidays, because there are a hell of a lot of holidays happening this time of year, from Thanksgiving to new years.

Don't like it, don't celebrate.

Here's the really cool thing about my country; I can celebrate what I fucking well please, however I fucking well please. And there isn't a fucking thing cows like you can do about it.

Brian says, "But if you're going to say that you're a militant atheist, then you ought not to engage in celebration. Because any celebration timed to coincide with December is going to have you celebrating with religious types."

Really? You really think atheists should abstain from celebrating the solstice?

Say it ain't so. Just about every temperate-climate culture holds a festival to mark that transition. It must be a human thing to do, not dependent on one's deity--or lack of one. That said, I would have preferred a celebretory text on the sign, not (as Crella called it) a "finger-wagging" admonition.

Not that I never wag my finger, like I am about to do at DuWayne.

Didn't anyone ever tell you that you can't win hearts and minds to your point of view with derision and insults?

Stealing the sign was wrong. If a Christian did it, they should know better. Period.

However, the group that erected the sign really needs to rethink their strategy. Why not put up a sign that just says something like, "The atheists of ______ wish you all a happy Winter Solstice"? If the Christian display said, "Worship Jesus or you are going to hell, fools," then I could understand the atheists' sign. But that's not the context at all. Instead, the atheists deliberately chose to pick a fight. As Axman said above, they're certainly not going to win hearts and minds that way. As a Christian, I'm not offended or threatened by anyone's lack of belief or belief in another god. You can believe or not believe anything you want. I might disagree with you, but that doesn't mean that I think you're an idiot or a bad person. I am irritated, though, when someone deliberately tries to be as insulting as possible toward my own faith. I won't ever treat your lack of faith with such disrespect, so why treat me with such hostility? I've had many fascinating discussions with atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Wiccans, etc. about issues of faith. (And I do mean discussions, not just me preaching, if that's what anyone is thinking.) But when a person picks a fight like the atheists in this story did, well, I choose not to engage people like that, because clearly they aren't interested in a true dialogue. Sorry for the rant.

The keyword, Axman, is "militant".

There's a difference between "I don't believe", and "You're stupid because you believe".

Look at it from the perspective of non-religious folks who have been inundated their entire lives, with religious messages in public

DuWayne - grow up. You do not have a right not to be offended.

I think the point of putting it there was more to do with it being a public building. Seperation of church and state.

We have the 10 Commandments in front of our (Idaho) courthouse, which didn't bother me until I was called for jury duty and one of the first questions asked by a defense attorney of potential jurors was "Are you a Christian"?

See also.

> one of the first questions asked
> by a defense attorney of potential
> jurors was

Reading this comment launched a five-minute reverie of sarcastic fantasy. I can't imagine how such an intrusion into personal belief could be justified.

(My fantasies of replying to Eric's voir dire all go like this.)

It just goes to show how little Christians actually know about their own religion. As mentioned previously, the tree is taken from winter solstice/pagan celebrations, as are a lot of so called Christian symbols. The virgin birth is recycled from many other older religions, mistletoe has pagan roots as well. The timing of Christmas at the time of the winter solstice was in order to convince the pagans on board. Jesus was actually born sometime in March.
I'm an atheist, or a godless heathen, or a Daoist-can't decide.

Love the anteater Crid!

brian -

Way to cut off the context of that sentence, to make me sound like an authoritarian - not going to work though.

Nope, I don't have a right not to be offended - but neither do the religious. I am very defensive of everyone's right to say their mind. I am even supportive of their right to use taxpayer funded venues to do so, as long as the taxpayer funded venues are open to everyone.

If the religious want to use such venues, that's fine too. But they need to be willing to accept that the constitution requires that such venues provide equal access. Personally, I think that such venues are better served by not being a forum at all.

On another blog it was pointed out that the atheists could have put their sign up at a great many other places around town - I agree. But the very same can be said of nativity creches and other religious symbols. The point is, none of us has a right to exclusive access to this sort of venue, if the access exists at all.

So why don't you grow up and actually respond to what I said, in context.

Axeman -

I'm not trying to change momof3's heart or mind. First, I'm not all that sure she has a heart, mostly from what I've seen shes a vile bitch of the highest degree. Second, while she may have a mind, her commentary is generally pretty mindless.

Besides which, she despises me somewhere along the depths at which I despise her. I'm pretty sure if she found herself agreeing with me on anything, she'd change her mind on that issue.

That said, I really didn't care for the wording of the sign either. Needlessly inflammatory comes to mind. Not that my comment to momof3 needed to be inflammatory, but I definitely had specific reasons for putting it to her that way.

In general, I tend to be rather tolerant of religious notions - especially given that I'm not really an atheist, except in the broadest of definitions. I.e. I am not a theist, but I find the idea of an interventionist god or spiritual entity rather more likely than not. But given my absolute rejection of revealed religion, there are those who would label me an atheist, so who I am to say.

I do however, come from a pretty fundamentalist Christian background - something that caused issues that still impact me today. As such, I have spent more of my life in churches than not. And as such, I know an awful lot of very decent folks who are not the sort of people deserving of such insults, but who would be rather insulted by that sign. Of course rather than stealing the sign, they would just pray for those who put it up and those who might be influenced by it.

Chrissy, yes, yes. It seems like somebody talks about the trees and mistletoe and stuff every year. I would suspect, that, aside from your comment about the virgin birth, most adult Christians are aware of the pagan iconography. And you're right about the timing of the holiday. Luke's account doesn't really say when Jesus' birth took place. It does say that shepherds were out in the fields at night, which some take as meaning spring time. Okay. By the way, St. Matthew's account is the only one that talks about the wise men, and neither names them nor says how many there were.

brian -

I should note that the supreme irony of your comment; I'm not the least bit offended by creches or other religious symbols. I grew up with them and even produced a great deal of (very bad) artwork that utilized religious symbolism. Even today, religious symbolism finds it's way into a lot of my music and poetry. Usually it's in a fairly positive light, though I have been working on a cycle of "get over it, we all have to live here - together" type songs, for a Portland band that isn't atheist either. They just despise the negative impact of religion on our society as much as I do.

DuWayne - grow up. You do not have a right not to be offended.

Posted by: brian

but christians do?

Crid, I love the anteater too! Ha!

I think everyone goes crazy around the holidays up here. The sign was returned a couple of hours later, not that it makes it much better. A protest was scheduled about the stolen sign, and then a protest about the sign, and then a protest about whether the sign should exist...I have no idea why the whole area explodes around this issue every year, this is one of the least religiously populated states.

Honey, at 5'10 and 140 (when not pregnant) I am hardly a cow. We'll ignore the modeling I did in college. It was not nude :)

No one is hanging tinsel and loading presents under trees to celebrate the winter solstice. If people want to celebrate that, they can do so accordingly. What they are doing, is stealing the commercial aspects of a holiday they disagree with, because it makes their spoiled brats happy. The gift giving started to memorialize Christ's birth and the gifts given HIM. Not to welcome mother moon, or whatever crap.

I despise the fact that Duwayne is dragging innocent kids through his cesspool life, yes. I don't think anyone has the right to do that. But hey, I only was raised by an intact family, got my education, then got married, then when I had a steadily employed source of income WITH disability insurance, had kids. I suppose that sort of responsible thinking really does rate me as a heartless evil bitch.

It's not that I don't think, Duwayne, It's that you don't. You worked construction-a notoriously ebb-and-flow career. With high injury rates. And apparently thought not a hair about what you would do for money if injured or when the building boom fell like it always does. You're not married, your "partner" comes and goes on the kids (that's stable life, yes!) and given that I"m sure a man who can't keep a roof over his kids heads probably has no health insurance for them, you're probably sucking up lots of taxpayer money for your kids therapy. I would never deny your child care-OR the right to live. But I do find it funny when you accuse other, far more responsible people, of not using their minds.

You must have pickled yours with the drugs.

Amy:

Any chance of banning DuWayne?

After deleting obscenities and obnoxious personal insults, there is hardly anything left over.

"It just goes to show how little Christians actually know about their own religion. As mentioned previously, the tree is taken from winter solstice/pagan celebrations, as are a lot of so called Christian symbols. The virgin birth is recycled from many other older religions, mistletoe has pagan roots as well. The timing of Christmas at the time of the winter solstice was in order to convince the pagans on board. Jesus was actually born sometime in March."

Chrissy, there is this entrenched notion that Christianity is a cultural tradition, really just an extension of Judaism, so "intrusions' from other cultural traditions are somehow less truly Christain. You seem to be speaking from this basis. The cultural tradition doesn't have much for good or ill to do being a "member of Christ." In fact this idea that Hebrew traditions are more truly Christian than others is a Protestant rather than a universally Christian view of Christianity. Also, the notion is internally incoherent; Jewish traditions such as circumcision, the feast of unleavend bread and the slaughter of the lamb all have pagan antecedents.

No one is hanging tinsel and loading presents under trees to celebrate the winter solstice. If people want to celebrate that, they can do so accordingly. What they are doing, is stealing the commercial aspects of a holiday they disagree with, because it makes their spoiled brats happy. The gift giving started to memorialize Christ's birth and the gifts given HIM. Not to welcome mother moon, or whatever crap.

Heck, I don't like to pick on people, but momof3, i have to pick on you twice tonight. You talk of "stealing" aspects. Whatever it is, it's not stealing. And don't tell me that celebrating Jesus's birth involves a fir tree and presents in December. No-one knows when (or even if) Jesus was born. Sheep, in particular, don't have lambs in December, so the story with shepherds does not fly. 25 December has at most one in 365 chance of being Jesus's date of birth.

I'm happy for Christians to celebrate whatever and whenever they like. But lets not delude ourselves. Remember, Santa Claus is an invention of the Coca Cola company.

Yes, I'm sending Xmas cards to my family & friends. They have "a partridge in a pear tree" on the front. Inside, I'll put a recipe for partridge.

Thanks Norman, for the voice of reason. I agree with DuWayne that there are a lot of holidays at this time of year, and I'm a 'happy holidays' person because it pretty much covers all the bases. My Hindu co-workers get time off work and enjoy the 'holidays' even though they don't celebrate Christmas. What am I supposed to do, interview everyone and figure out what their favorite flavor is? 'Happy holidays' covers everything.

Awe Skipper, did I offend your delicate sensibilities? Get over it. Disagree with me, but don't claim I had nothing to say beyond the insults. The insults in one comment, out of several on this thread.

momof3 -

I am hardly a cow.

Appearances can be deceiving - you're a cow.

No one is hanging tinsel and loading presents under trees to celebrate the winter solstice. If people want to celebrate that, they can do so accordingly. What they are doing, is stealing the commercial aspects of a holiday they disagree with, because it makes their spoiled brats happy. The gift giving started to memorialize Christ's birth and the gifts given HIM. Not to welcome mother moon, or whatever crap.

Again, the wonder of this country, is that we don't have to ask your fucking opinion on the matter and your opinion doesn't hold any weight. We can all celebrate however and for whatever reason we want. We can even give our kids presents for whatever reason we want. Don't like it, go live in a theocracy.

I despise the fact that Duwayne is dragging innocent kids through his cesspool life, yes.

My life was actually very stable and reasonable when I had the first and still pretty damned good when I had the second. Mistakes were certainly made, but life is risky.

You worked construction-a notoriously ebb-and-flow career. With high injury rates.

Until I was injured (not on the job) I was working steadily and making damned good money running my own business.

And apparently thought not a hair about what you would do for money if injured or when the building boom fell like it always does. You're not married, your "partner" comes and goes on the kids

Actually I did, just didn't manage to bring together enough to deal with injury and my partner's mental health issues. Not going to go into details, because frankly it's none of your fucking business.

The thing is, that I did what needed to be done to provide for my family. I'd love to know what you would do if you ended up where I was. I know that I will do what it takes, no matter how distasteful it might be, do you? And before you claim that it could never happen to you, let me just be clear - it fucking well could. Unless you're a multi-millionaire living well within your means. Shit happens, even to decent cowfolk like you.

...and given that I"m sure a man who can't keep a roof over his kids heads probably has no health insurance for them, you're probably sucking up lots of taxpayer money for your kids therapy.

Well you see, being the type of man I am, my immediate community actually had the urge to help us out - coupled with my other income we made it.(I maintained insurance for them and momma until the end of Nov.) I kept a roof over my son's heads and paid the bill to the therapist (sliding scale, same rate we were paying when I was making good money). Now I'm back in MI, enrolled in school and working on the side while I figure out where I want to work.

Unfortunately, tax-payers are going to have to help me out a little while, but we'll get that out of the way soon. My kids will be getting health care on the state for a few months, but I have job offers and will be covering it as soon as I've worked long enough. The thing is, while I am very over the whole remodeling, home repair scene, I am exceptionally good at what I do and have a very solid reputation both back in Portland and here where I grew up.

But I do find it funny when you accuse other, far more responsible people, of not using their minds.

I find it very amusing that you judge my responsibility level, without having a fucking clue. I have had some exceptionally shitty circumstances come up, the most terrifying experience of my life. For a minute, I really wasn't sure what was going to happen. Then people who care about me and mine, crawled out of the fucking woodwork, to make sure that we were ok. Why? Because I do for people around me and they weren't about to let us sink.

By and by, my biggest failure in all of this, was trying to avoid getting state assistance. Had I sucked it in and applied for welfare, we would have been fine. We still would have ended up back here, but we wouldn't have had anything to fear.

Amy:

Feel free to debate him using the good old English language, with or without obscenities.

What goes around, comes around.

The Volokh Conspiracy is probably one of the highest quality blogs around. They would have pitched DuWayne in heartbeat.

Your show, obviously. But DuWayne stains it.

DuWayne:

Disagree with me, but don't claim I had nothing to say beyond the insults. The insults in one comment, out of several on this thread.

Is there some excuse for behavior on the Web that would get your clock cleaned if done in person?

BTW, including the balance of your comment, that would be two that are rife with obscenities and pointless personal insult.

Hey Skippy -

I am like this in person, with vile little people like momof3. The same as I am with assholes who object to my use of strong language when dealing with people who are as obnoxious, rude and presumptuous as she is. And you know, it's failed to get my clock cleaned yet.

I give as I get. I just don't try to pretty it up. Momof3 has given me plenty and I find her absolutely petty and odious. Excuse me if I'm not going to pretend to be polite about it. Personally, I am rather fond of honesty and openness.

I do tend to curse more than is always reasonable, but I am no more insulting than the people who insult me or my intelligence.

By and by, I do respect my hosts, online and off. If I am in a discussion where my blunt inner-asshole wants to come out and it isn't welcome, I shut-up and deal or I leave.

I would also add that I have an exceptionally low tolerance for autocrats and theocrats. They deserve and get, nothing but derision from me.

People should lighten up. It's just a nativity scene. It would be different if the government were forcing us all to go to a particular church and proclaim our belief in that church's dogma. But it's not. We're free to worship as we see fit. For over 200 years our government has been proclaiming things like "In God We Trust" and "Under God" without turning the country into a theocracy. A nativity scene or the 10 commandments on a public building isn't going to change that.

If you're not in the majority, prepare to be offended. Unfortunately, militant minority viewpoints are now demanding that all evidence of any belief or system not theirs be eliminated.

Why is it that atheists talk about celebrating the Winter Solstice as their reason for having Santa Claus, a Christmas (er...Solstice) tree, and other holiday decorations, but you don't hear much militant talk from them about celebrating the Summer Solstice. Is that not a pagan holiday, too.

Besides, if celebrating the Winter Solstice is a pagan tradition, doesn't that make it religious? So, you're not really an atheist if you're celebrating a religious event - even a polytheistic non-Christian one. Otherwise, isn't the Winter Solstice just another day on the calendar?

And, if atheists can mock Christians for having Santa Claus because he has nothing to do with Christianity, why do they get to have him mocking-free? What does he have to do with the Winter Solstice? Did the ancient Celts have a fat guy in a red suit show up at their house every Winter Solstice to stuff candy and toys in their socks?

Personally, you can celebrate whatever you want at that time of year - Christmas, Hannukah (Channukah?), Kwanzaa, Winter Solstice, your uncle's successful hernia operation. Just don't spend your time preaching your militant beliefs (or non-beliefs) to me. I've got some serious online shopping to do.

So, sit back with a cup of egg nog, put your feet up by the fire, and just enjoy a time of year when we're all celebrating something that includes the idea that there actually can be peace on earth.

Then, hit the malls and discover why that's not possible.

Happy Pseudo-Religious Commercial Holiday!

Conan -

Unfortunately, militant minority viewpoints are now demanding that all evidence of any belief or system not theirs be eliminated.

Few are actually trying to get anything eliminated. What a great many people, atheists, theists and agnostics alike are trying to do is gain equal access to public forums. While in this instance, I think the sign in question was needlessly inflamatory, the thinking behind it is not.

Why is it that atheists talk about celebrating the Winter Solstice as their reason for having Santa Claus, a Christmas (er...Solstice) tree, and other holiday decorations, but you don't hear much militant talk from them about celebrating the Summer Solstice. Is that not a pagan holiday, too.

A very few atheists I know actually put it that way. Most of them, if they celebrate anything at all, celebrate Christmas because it's a federal holiday, rife with traditions that have absolutely nothing to do with religion.

And, if atheists can mock Christians for having Santa Claus because he has nothing to do with Christianity, why do they get to have him mocking-free?

Because they don't make the ignorant claim that Santa is a religious figure that has anything to do with the birth of Jesus. And not all of them do - mostly the one's who have kids. And really it's not them who get Santa, it's their children.

Just don't spend your time preaching your militant beliefs (or non-beliefs) to me.

Which really, is the preference that a lot of us have. Unfortunately, it's hard to go much of anywhere, without those militant beliefs being shoved down one's throat.

I would note again that I am not an atheist. Having grown up with it, I am reasonably comfortable around Christian symbolism. However, were it not for the kids, I would happily treat Christmas as a day that I am free to be left alone. For years, I liked to work on Christmas, because I could make a ton of money for "sacrificing" my holiday time.

Unfortunately, it's hard to go much of anywhere, without those militant beliefs being shoved down one's throat.

Displaying Menorahs, Santa Clauses, Christmas trees, nativity scenes, etc. does not constitute shoving militant beliefs down someone's throat.

Suing to remove a display with which you do not agree (because it "offends" your beliefs)...does.

Putting a counter-display immediately next to a display with which you do not agree in order to dampen the impact of the offending display...does.

Stealing or vandalizing a legally-placed display on public property because you do not agree with it...does.

Stealing or vandalizing a display on private property because you do not agree with it...does.

We should all be able to enjoy or ignore the holiday season as we wish...whether we celebrate (or ignore) Christmas, Kwanzaa, Hannukah, or the earth's position relative to the sun.

We should also be able to accept someone else celebrating or ignoring the holiday season as well.

...celebrate Christmas because it's a federal holiday, rife with traditions that have absolutely nothing to do with religion.

Actually, most of those traditions have everything to do with religion. Just not Christianity.

OK, I'm a cow. And you, Duwayne, are man with absolutely nothing to offer in this world, as far as employability goes, but the tightness of your ass. Moo.

At least my vile little brain is employable. I shan't ever be in your situation, what with me having a brain and mentally stable non-cocaine-abusing spouse, but were I to be, I'd have lots of offers to help too. Including-GASP-a church. But you rock on, bud. You rock on.

I wonder if the constant drug use from the 2 of you damaged your gametes and caused your kids problems? An interesting thesis.

Yes, yes you are a cow, as well as being mistaken about my employability. I did what I did to take care of my family, something apparently you couldn't do in necessary.

Not going to go into my partners neurological issues, because it's none of your fucking business, but rest assured it has nothing to do with drugs - it's genetic.

Not sure where you got the impression of constant drug use on anyone's part. I used a lot of drugs years ago and gave it up, excepting the rare toke of marijuana here and there. Beyond that my drug use is limited to nicotine and caffeine.

As for the problems of my oldest, they are an inheritance from me. I'm bipolar and have severe ADHD. There may be some interaction from his mothers side too - I really hope not and it is fairly unlikely, because he's a he, not a she. But the possibility exists.

As soon as the insurance from my new job kicks in, we will be looking into it. It's not urgent - if he has the same condition as his mom, he has a great many years before it becomes an issue. Three months to wait and find out isn't going to hurt anything and I'd rather not put all the scans that need to be done on the state's tab.

Ironically, given your comment, some of my help came from my church. Mainly because I've kept several people in the church in their homes, by taking care of essential repairs for no or little charge.

I have never actually felt this way about another human being before and my only hesitation to wish it, is that you have kids. But I honestly would love to see you end up where I did. I'd love to see if you would actually do what's necessary to take care of your family. Considering the vile cow bitch you are, your husband losing it might be a fucking blessing.

Funny. I don't hate you, Duwayne. I rather hope you do get it together. What church do you have, exactly, since you seem quite anti-christian and certainly don't live via any religious doctrine I've ever seen. Or is a "church" chock full of people telling you to feel good about yourself no matter what you do in life, whether or not you (and you admit you don't) believe in God?

I would do most anything to keep my kids fed. Bravo to you for doing that. My issue with you, since you've chosen to attack me personally and call me a cow, is that intelligent people have options other than selling their asshole, to make money. If I had to, of course I would. I'd also clean grand central station with my tongue if I had to to feed my kids. I won't ever have to.

I won't get into the many, decades long I'm sure, crappy decisions you made to get you there. You would never acknowledge them and I tire of you.

momof3 -

The reason I find you so very odious, is that it is all so very black and white in your world. Someone has ended up badly off, it's all the result of bad choices on their part. Someone goes to extremes to deal with their problems, they're too stupid to have done something else. Life is rarely that simple, but as intelligent as you like to assume you are, that is exactly how you look at it all. Hate me or not, you're a very hateful person. Or more accurate, you lack even the basic ability to empathize with your fellow human beings.

I will fully admit that I've made bad choices in my life, everyone has. I have done the best to deal with the choices I've made and for quite some time was doing very well. I had moved away from physically harder work and focused on work that paid well and took a minimal toll on my body. Self-employment meant that I could make more money than I did working for others.

The problems that ultimately sunk me, were issues that individually, would have been easily overcome - even my partner's deteriorating neurological problems. But when they hit one after another, they became more than I was able to handle. The reason I did what I did to cover it, was because I couldn't leave my children alone with their mother and had limited resources for child care - coupled with a need to bring in as much income as possible in a short time.

It turns out that I was more panicked than I needed to be. The reason being that I take care of my neighbors, but never assumed that they would return the favor. They did, members of my church did (yes, a Christian church, because that is my background. That I do not accept the notion of revealed religion, does not mean I don't believe in God or some higher power.

Right now I am pretty much the caretaker of my children, caretaker of my partner, recently enrolled in school and starting a new job on Monday. I came back to the area I grew up, so that I could get help with that and so my partner could get mental health services that are unavailable in OR. Odds are that I cannot expect her help any time in the near future, if ever. I also have to help my oldest deal with the fact that his mother bears little resemblance to the women who has helped raise him, up until a few months ago. Thankfully, the youngest is blissfully unaware of his mother's condition, as he is a year old on Saturday.

Tell me, would it not kind if fuck things up if your husband suddenly and fairly rapidly declined into dementia? How long would it take before you were in trouble? With the economy what it is, are you that certain of your ability to go to work and cover everything, including childcare? What if you also got injured at the same time your husband lost it?

It's unlikely to happen, to be sure, but that is pretty much exactly what I am dealing with right now. And my initial panic, largely due to my own neurological issues aside, I am coming out the other end a better man and without resorting to much need for help from the state.