Dutch Teat
Life in the socialist Netherlands, by American author Russell Shorto, who wrote for New York Times Magazine about his observations during his 18 months in the welfare state:
For the first few months I was haunted by a number: 52. It reverberated in my head; I felt myself a prisoner trying to escape its bars. For it represents the rate at which the income I earn, as a writer and as the director of an institute, is to be taxed. To be plain: more than half of my modest haul, I learned on arrival, was to be swallowed by the Dutch welfare state. Nothing in my time here has made me feel so much like an American as my reaction to this number. I am politically left of center in most ways, but from the time 52 entered my brain, I felt a chorus of voices rise up within my soul, none of which I knew I had internalized, each a ghostly simulacrum of a right-wing, supply-side icon: Ronald Reagan, Jack Kemp, Rush Limbaugh. The grim words this chorus chanted in defense of my hard-earned income I recognized as copied from Charlton Heston's N.R.A. rallying cry about prying his gun from his cold, dead hands.And yet as the months rolled along, I found the defiant anger softening by intervals, thanks to a succession of little events and awarenesses. One came not long ago. Logging into my bank account, I noted with fleeting but pleasant confusion the arrival of two mysterious payments of 316 euros (about $410) each. The remarks line said "accommodation schoolbooks." My confusion was not total. On looking at the payor -- the Sociale Verzekeringsbank, or Social Insurance Bank -- I nodded with sage if partial understanding. Our paths had crossed several times before. I have two daughters, you see. Every quarter, the SVB quietly drops $665 into my account with the one-word explanation kinderbijslag, or child benefit. As the SVB's Web site cheerily informed me when I went there in bewilderment after the first deposit: "Babies are expensive. Nappies, clothes, the pram . . . all these things cost money. The Dutch government provides for child benefit to help you with the costs of bringing up your child." Any parents living in the country receive quarterly payments until their children turn 18. And thanks to a recently passed law, the state now gives parents a hand in paying for school materials.
Payments arrive from other sources too. Friends who have small children report that the government can reimburse as much as 70 percent of the cost of day care, which totals around $14,000 per child per year. In late May of last year an unexpected $4,265 arrived in my account: vakantiegeld. Vacation money. This money materializes in the bank accounts of virtually everyone in the country just before the summer holidays; you get from your employer an amount totaling 8 percent of your annual salary, which is meant to cover plane tickets, surfing lessons, tapas: vacations. And we aren't talking about a mere "paid vacation" -- this is on top of the salary you continue to receive during the weeks you're off skydiving or snorkeling. And by law every employer is required to give a minimum of four weeks' vacation. For that matter, even if you are unemployed you still receive a base amount of vakantiegeld from the government, the reasoning being that if you can't go on vacation, you'll get depressed and despondent and you'll never get a job.
My concept of how things should work is pretty simple: You pay for your life and what you choose to incorporate into it, and I'll pay for mine.
Read on within the piece for health care, Dutch-style.
Thanks, Deirdre!
"And yet as the months rolled along, I found the defiant anger softening by intervals, thanks to a succession of little events and awarenesses."
It's not awareness, its called dependenceny. 52% taxed income and this asshole is happy to have a stipend for his children's infant nappies?!??!?
I would be eager to find out how Russell wrote this article with a straight face.
Feebie at May 3, 2009 2:58 AM
> its called dependenceny.
Well, it oughta be.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at May 3, 2009 3:30 AM
This is different only in degree from the American situation, where people regularly declare they paid no taxes this year, having forgotten their witholding.
Debate on the "Fair Tax" - the national sales tax - shows the degree to which assorted people are beholden to one scheme or another. It's depressing.
Radwaste at May 3, 2009 7:14 AM
where people regularly declare they paid no taxes this year,
Or the OctoMom proudly declaring she ins't on welfare while taking medicaid and food stamps.
Either way, less government is generally better.
Jim P. at May 3, 2009 7:34 AM
Good God, he puts aside being angry about all the money be taken away from him, simply because they give little bits of it back to him with heart-warming labels on it.
I guess if he had kept those child-care and vacation sums himself in his own general savings account, he wouldn't have experienced the happy glow of knowing the gov't CARES about the cost of his kids' nappies and his needs for relaxation.
Bertha at May 3, 2009 7:38 AM
Amy,
you're ignoring one thing here: People don't gain anything by having children, nothing tangible I mean. Children used to be the main old-age insurance, and thus an investment, but these times are long gone.
Another reason to have kids used to be the wish to have heirs who continue their work, who take over their shops and farms. This, too, is far less relevant now. More people than ever are employees, and employees, be they factory workers or news anchors, janitors or managers, have nothing substantial to inherit. Most companies too go public at some point and thus gain a life independent of the founder's family.
On the other hand you can't just declare kids a luxury which people who don't want to pay for it shouldn't indulge in. After all, the continued existence of mankind, and any particular society, depends on at least some of their members, and not too few, procreating. This can be offset by immigration, but I don't get the impression that you're very much in favor of this option.
So socializing the cost of raising kids is really something entirely different than socializing medical costs, or retirement funds.
Theodor Lauppert at May 3, 2009 8:24 AM
I'm an American libertarian, but I admit that from reading that article, the Dutch system seems to work rather well for the Dutch people. And good for them.
However, the system is primed to fall apart. Shorto made brief reference to the Muslim influx; non-Dutch people with non-Dutch values are bankrupting the collectivist Dutch people's government.
Thus the warm fuzzies I felt at the beginning of the article faded into the bittersweet nostalgia I would get from an obituary.
Lauren at May 3, 2009 8:32 AM
The thing is, the Netherlands are the size of Ohio, or Penn. and not a whole lot bigger in population. Some things can work quite well on the small scale, but not scale up.
Plus as previously mentioned... government paying for nappies isn't so bad if your population isn't procreating. Bring in a population of people who will have many children but not pay a lot in taxes for them? eh, just do the math.
SwissArmyD at May 3, 2009 9:11 AM
I guess the question is, is the standard of living higher there or here? Does anyone know? I don't.
Results over philosophies, I say.
NicoleK at May 3, 2009 9:26 AM
Nicole -
That depends upon how you measure "standard of living".
The UN measures it by how much socialism there is. The more the "government" provides, the better the standard of living.
Because it never gets mentioned that the government only gets its money from the people, and at the point of a gun no less.
Although his abating anger at the tax rate is the perfect example of something Instapundit likes to say:
"They'll turn us into beggars, cause they're easier to please."
brian at May 3, 2009 9:32 AM
I'd always wondered how europeans take such long vacays. I don't see why he's impressed with government giving him money-it's his own money! Now, if he were unemployed, I'd see the perk.
momof3 at May 3, 2009 11:17 AM
A friend of mine from the Netherlands had explained their social welfare system as something like this..
You give the government most of your money and then they give you an allowance.
What Mr. Shorto neglects to mention is that those stipends have to be spent on the costs they are attributed to. You can't take your chocolate subsidy and spend it on haircuts.
Mack at May 3, 2009 12:46 PM
"I guess the question is, is the standard of living higher there or here? Does anyone know? I don't."
Nope, it isn't; the question is a moral one: Is it ever acceptable to take somebody's money by force against their wishes in order to give it to someone else. It's not about artificially engineering a supposedly optimal economic system; it's about basic rights.
David at May 3, 2009 1:34 PM
Brian, I'm not sure that the Dutch are beggars!:) You make a good point about standard of living, though. I would agree that measuring it by how much the government hands out is idiotic... I don't know, how do they measure "cost of living"?
I'd say ability to afford things like housing, appliances, utilities, vacations, clothing, healthcare, toys, etc. would be a better measure. How do the Dutch measure up? Anyone know?
NicoleK at May 3, 2009 2:09 PM
I see your point David. And I guess I disagree. If some people manage to hoard everything while everyone else is starving, I see that as a problem, and can't share your "Well too bad for them" attitude.
Or maybe I DO agree with you, but take into account labor... if you're ripping people off labor-wise, maybe that's a moral issue.
But frankly, I'm for whatever works, whatever stops there from being widespread poverty and the ensuing chaos. Which is why I'm against welfare as it is. If it worked, if it really helped people help themselves and get back on our feet, I'd be for it.
NicoleK at May 3, 2009 2:12 PM
Any wonder that the Muslim immigrants are reproducing much faster than their Dutch benefactors? Jihad by bankrupting the state.
It's not just a question of who has more consumer goods--it's also a question of initiative and drive. Name a current Dutch novelist, rock band, filmmaker, tech start-up. Why struggle to create anything when Big Daddy drops some $$ in your bank account.
Do you really want to live someplace where the government doesn't need a court order to intersect your bank account? What goes in can just as easily come out.
KateC at May 3, 2009 4:11 PM
Whether you think the Dutch system works or not depends upon your definition of what "works." People will disagree. I think from an American perspective, the only situation where this has a chance of working is at a state level. As SwissArmyD pointed out, the Netherlands is about the same size and population as Ohio or Pennsylvania.
Well I have no problem with that! Let a state like Ohio (or five other states, for that matter) try something like this. Define what they want the outcomes to be, figure out how to allocate the costs, and if the people want to try this kind of experiment, and see if it works, more power to them! That was the whole idea behind having 50 states. Those guys were brilliant!
One state might put together a tidy little program that makes health care affordable and convenient for everyone ... by weeding out the bad risks and not letting everyone participate in the state program. What does that mean? Obese people or smokers are not allowed to be residents of Ohio? Or you don't allow cigarettes or fast food to be sold in your state? And how much does that kind of enforcement cost? Do you want to start throwing people in jail for running a black market in McDonald's? Well that's your problem, not anyone else's. YOU decide. Then you have to make a choice, if you want to live in the "Healthy, but Everyone Has Insurance" state - do you want to give those things up in exchange for affordable health insurance, and pay for law enforcement to keep the cigarettes out?
In the end, I think there are good math models that can predict, based on various factors, what kind of costs you can expect to have to pay for health care. How much do the healthies want to subsidize the sickies? Well, that depends on why the sickies are sick. Is it from something that just anyone, randomly, can get? (Rheumatoid arthritis, or cancer?) Well how do you feel about paying the medical bills of someone who speed-eats donuts and smokes two packs a day? (Sure, if you do those things yourself, otherwise maybe not so much.)
It's a crazy debate. I guess we're going to have to have it. You might get 50 different responses. With 50 states, you might make everyone happy! But get the federal government out of it.
Pirate Jo at May 3, 2009 4:14 PM
"America is the land of the free. But I think we are freer."
Somehow I don't recall Americans loading Jewish citizens into cattle cars. The Dutch can point with pride for their poor citizens today, but when things were tough, they didn't do the right thing. And that's a national stain as deep-dyed as Nazism in Germany, but with far less introspection.
KateC at May 3, 2009 4:15 PM
"Any wonder that the Muslim immigrants are reproducing much faster than their Dutch benefactors? Jihad by bankrupting the state."
How do you account for an Ayaan Hirsi Ali, then? (I am playing Devil's advocate in this post.)
I found it really interesting, when I read Ali's book, how much she benefitted from the Dutch welfare state. Yet she always hated being on welfare, and having working people support her. She really strove to get away from that, and succeeded.
I know two people who have been on welfare, both single moms, and both of them benefitted from the system as it is supposed to work. One is a computer programmer now, and the other is a retail manager. They both are totally self-sufficient, and their kids are not likely to repeat their mistakes. They are paying back into the system, repaying their debts, if you will. They both stopped after ONE child. How do you help people like them, and stop the serial welfare moochers?
Pirate Jo at May 3, 2009 4:21 PM
Here's an interesting article:
http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Standard:of:living:in:the:United:States.html
Eric at May 3, 2009 4:46 PM
Eric- That's a weird little piece. It seems to argue that income inequality is unjust, but i'm not sure it is. (Almost everyone in my life who's richer than me has worked harder or smarter. There are a lot of those people. I'm pretty sure you're one of them.) Japan has less of a burden with minorities than other countries because minorities are essentially unwelcome: Nothing to admire there. And I'd love to know how much better Canada and Europeans nations would be in terms of health care and other social programs if they were responsible for their own international defense, and not counting on the United States for shelter. That shit costs money, y'know... It costs us money.
Not saying it isn't well spent, but when they go flashing their pocket change, let's all remember how it accumulated.
--
A great thing about the United States is that our people have a much better shot of grabbing the brass ring, and grabbing it on their own, and grabbing it deservedly. Even if we don't do that every time we go 'round the carousel, the importance of knowing that it's there says a lot about who we are.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at May 3, 2009 5:30 PM
Maybe it's a question of living to work and working to live. The europeans have a wonderful attitude toward enjoyment and pleasure.
Americans believe working hard, and the tireless 60hr work week is a symbol of your fortitude and determination. Personally I like to sip wine and enjoy the people I love more than prove individualism reigns supreme over a sense of community and compassion. It's a personal choice. Americans seem to frantically hold onto failing ideology even as their boats sinks and they are shitting their pants. It's really laughable and a bit entertaining to watch coming from a country with socialized medicine. You know, the communist kind where if you get your fingers cut off you don't have to choose which ones get sewed back on. Enjoy your impotent society.
Ivy at May 3, 2009 5:53 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/05/03/dutch_teat.html#comment-1646169">comment from IvyOf course, in France, for example, there isn't a whole lot of incentive to work very hard because it's a hierarchical society, and you're unlikely to accomplish more than your father ever did. If he was a carpenter, you're not going to go to Sciences Po and become a physicist. Here in America, on the other hand, you can grow up the child of a single mother who lacks any real station in society and you can become president. Or Oprah. Vive la difference.
An American friend of mine who is a businessman, married to a French woman, told me he had 65 percent of his income sucked away in taxes one year. Moments after bragging that he has "free" medical care. Right.
I've spent my entire Sunday writing, and I'm about to take a nap and see if I can't finish this book chapter tonight -- before waking up at 5 or 6 am tomorrow for my deadline. My choice. It's the price of good writing. Mediocre writing, I can finish 9-5, Monday through Friday.
Oh, and P.S. I have an HMO, reasonably priced, but then, I've been paying into it since my 20s -- independently, not tied to employment, which is as it should be. Of course, there is some screwage -- I'm paying with after-tax dollars and employees pay with before-tax dollars. Let's change that.
Amy Alkon at May 3, 2009 6:05 PM
> It's really laughable and a bit
> entertaining to watch coming from
> a country with socialized medicine.
I'll bet a hundred dollars, payable to the United Way of Greater Los Angeles, that Ivy's national defense is essentially provided by the United States of America... A nation growing weary of the investment.
Perhaps we're not the ones who should be shitting our pants.
Girl just wants a glass of wine, "enjoyment and pleasure." Girls just want to have fun. (There's a reason no one's heard from Cyndi Lauper for the last quarter century...)
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at May 3, 2009 6:05 PM
"I'm paying with after-tax dollars and employees pay with before-tax dollars. Let's change that. "
Amy, I am guessing that your business is not incorporated. Then, it is true that you use after-tax dollars to pay the health care insurance premiums but you get to deduct that payment on your personal tax returns on the line 29 of your Form 1040. So, you do get the tax benefit.
If your business is incorporated, you are an employee of your corporation and you get to use before-tax dollars to pay the premium.
Chang at May 3, 2009 6:31 PM
Ivy - your country (doesn't matter which one) is going to run out of people to pick up the tab for your wine and leisure.
You're all going to die penniless on the street because of your arrogance.
Outside of the Islamic world, the US and Latin America are pretty much the only societies that will exist in 50 years in any form resembling the present day.
brian at May 3, 2009 6:58 PM
"Personally I like to sip wine and enjoy the people I love more than prove individualism reigns supreme over a sense of community and compassion"
Go for it. Sip all the wine you want. Just don't expect others who make different choices than you to subsidize yours. No one is required to work their ass off here in the US, you only have to work as hard as the lifestyle you want. Seems fair to me.
momof3 at May 3, 2009 7:20 PM
America is the land of the free. But I think we are freer.
Relying, of course, upon American military might and expenditure (which, lets not forget, makes it so much easier to allocate money for national health care and those fun vacations).
How do you account for an Ayaan Hirsi Ali, then?
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is very much an anomaly among Dutch Muslims (and even more so among Dutch Muslim women), as her book made abundantly clear.
kishke at May 3, 2009 7:26 PM
Kish - she's an anomaly among muslims.
A live apostate.
brian at May 3, 2009 8:17 PM
Amy says "An American friend of mine who is a businessman, married to a French woman, told me he had 65 percent of his income sucked away in taxes one year. Moments after bragging that he has "free" medical care. Right."
That is probably right. In addition to income taxes, there is about 40% payroll tax, plus around 19.6% VAT on everything you buy.
Still, I must admit I still like the country nonetheless.
Nick S at May 4, 2009 12:45 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/05/03/dutch_teat.html#comment-1646206">comment from Nick SI love Paris, but I visit it; I don't work there. My Parisian friends who do find going up the ladder there at work akin to fighting their way through nearly dry cement, and never mind ability.
Amy Alkon at May 4, 2009 12:49 AM
Crid says " And I'd love to know how much better Canada and Europeans nations would be in terms of health care and other social programs if they were responsible for their own international defense, and not counting on the United States for shelter. That shit costs money, y'know..."
That is a very good point. The welfare states of much of the rest of the developed world have effectively been subsidised by the American taxpayer for a while now.
Because America spends a lot more on their military, and provides an umbrella of protection for much of the world, it means other countries can spend less on the military and more on other government programs.
One of the benefits of a collapsing US economy is that this arrangement won't last, and the rest of the developed world will end up having to grow up and take care of their own survival.
Nick S at May 4, 2009 12:54 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/05/03/dutch_teat.html#comment-1646208">comment from Amy AlkonP.S. They're lowering the VAT for restaurant dining:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/29/business/global/29resto.html
To 5.5 percent from 19.6 percent, as of July 1, Sarko's office said.
Amy Alkon at May 4, 2009 12:55 AM
Good, I'll enjoy going out more often next time I am there.
July is a good time to go, as it is summer and many people leave for their vacation.
Nick S at May 4, 2009 1:13 AM
Brian: Absolutely, and let's hope she stays that way. She's an admirable person.
kishke at May 4, 2009 7:19 AM
"he had 65 percent of his income sucked away in taxes one year. Moments after bragging that he has "free" medical care"
And this isn't even unusual at all, I hear things like this *all* the *time* from both Europeans and many others who want to emigrate to Europe.
My mind boggles that any person can reach *adulthood* and not be able to make such simple connections as this. A 10-year old can understand it.
Yet time and again, as soon as "the government" provides anything, people start mindlessly chanting the word "free", like zombies.
David at May 4, 2009 10:26 AM
This is a forecast of things to come in the United States.
As more and more people find out they don't have to work, and the people that do work have more and more of their money taken from them to give to the people that don't work, the system becomes unsustainable.
Taxes go from 30% to 40% to 52% and keep clinbing until people go somewhere else more desirable.
David M. at May 4, 2009 1:54 PM
Shorto does mention that the Dutch have an aversion to standing out. An attitude that rather limits achievement
""The europeans have a wonderful attitude toward enjoyment and pleasure.""
Let's not romanticize this whole "work to live" nonsense. It's possible that people who want to leave more than a pleasant memory to their kids or grandkids--a business, perhaps--come to the US because they can build a business, a vineyard, a farm or an invention or a legacy of music or literature or whatever.
The Dutch are a very nice people whose culture peaked some centuries ago.
KateC at May 4, 2009 5:35 PM
>> "The europeans have a wonderful attitude toward enjoyment and pleasure."
> "Let's not romanticize this whole "work to live" nonsense"
Yeah. I have a European colleague who is extremely hardworking - 80 hour work-weeks are typical - and that's what he *likes*, out of his own choice, he wants to be (and is) an expert and achieve great things in his field. Yet in his own country, the way he works is literally *against the law*. Let's make no bones about what that means and how serious that really is. To misrepresent this situation as him having a "wonderful attitude toward enjoyment and pleasure", is absurd; it's a little bit like portraying North Koreans as having a "wonderful attitude to discipline and fairness".
David at May 4, 2009 7:35 PM
David M, the problem is that in the short to medium term governments can fund these things by simply running larger budget deficits. They don't need to pay for it all through taxes.
In the US and the UK the budget deficit is now around 10 to 12% of GDP. This is extraordinary and alarming. In normal times, a budget deficit higher than 3% of GDP is considered a serious concern.
Nick S at May 4, 2009 10:20 PM
"One of the benefits of a collapsing US economy is that this arrangement won't last"
Oh, it'll last alright. It will last long after our auto companies are bankrupt, our technology sector moves out and the employees paying their taxes and spending their income in other countries, until our government is borrowing money from Communists, and our lower-income citizens are competing for jobs with under-the-counter illegal immigrants by the millions.
It will last because trillion dollar pork is mighty tasty to every voting district that gets a bite.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at May 5, 2009 7:34 AM
Watch the movie 'I.O.U.S.A.' It is a must-see.
Pirate Jo at May 5, 2009 1:29 PM
Geez, that's unebleivable. Kudos and such.
Chuck at June 22, 2011 6:40 PM
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