The Terms Of Child Neglect Have Changed
If any of us posting or commenting here were growing up today with the parental supervision we had when we actually did grow up, our parents would very likely be in jail for child neglect and we'd be in foster care.
David Bernstein over at Volokh links to guidelines published by the Arlington, Virginia Department of Human Services:
How Young Is Too Young To Be Home Alone?
* 8 years and under: Should not be left alone for any period of time. This includes leaving children unattended in cars, playgrounds, and yards.
* 9 to 10 years: Should not be left alone for more than 1 ½ hours and only during daylight and early evening hours.
* 11 to 12 years: May be left alone for up to 3 hours, but not late at night or in circumstances requiring adult supervision.
* 13 to 15 years: May be left unsupervised, but not overnight.
* 16 to 17 years: May be left unsupervised for up to two consecutive overnight periods.
Bernstein writes that at age 8, he not only played in his Queens backyard unattended, he remembers being "free to wander around" his neighborhood "unaccompanied by an adult so long as I came home before dark":
Somehow, I survived unscathed, as did each and every one of my peers.[By the way, I'm not arguing over whether it's good practice to keep your eight-year-old supervised, I am instead arguing that its absurd to claim that allowing an eight-year-old to play in the yard unsupervised does not meet even a "minimal acceptable standard" for supervising children.]
He follows up with the story of a woman who says she was charged for criminal misconduct for leaving her child asleep in the car for five minutes while she ran an errand. Her case will be dismissed if she completes a parenting class and 50 hours of community service.
How many of your parents would be charged? How did you all manage to turn out okay?
My old New York Daily News pal Lenore Skenazy wrote a book about all the parenting paranoia, Free-Range Kids: Giving Our Children the Freedom We Had Without Going Nuts with Worry, and has a website about it, too. Here's a story from her site:
You may recall that a couple weeks ago a mom in small town Mississippi, Lori LeVar Pierce, let her 10-year-old walk a third of a mile to his soccer practice by himself. Or she would have let him, that is, except he got picked up by the police a few blocks in.The cop drove him the rest of the way, to ensure he wasn't abducted and murdered. Then the cop waited for Lori to show up (that's how responsible she is! She was meeting her son there 15 minutes later!) so he could tell her what a dangerous, crazy, maybe even criminal thing she had done, and how the police had received "hundreds" of calls to 911 about a boy dangerously on his own on that sunny afternoon.
I sure hope these people never watch "Lassie." They'd die of fright.
She explains there:
Do you ever... ..let your kid ride a bike to the library? Walk alone to school? Take a bus, solo? Or are you thinking about it? If so, you are raising a Free Range Kid! At Free Range, we believe in safe kids. We believe in helmets, car seats and safety belts. We do NOT believe that every time school age children go outside, they need a security detail. Most of us grew up Free Range and lived to tell the tale. Our kids deserve no less. This site dedicated to sane parenting. Share your stories, tell your tips and maybe one day I will try to collect them in a book. Meantime, let's try to help our kids embrace life! (And maybe even clear the table.)
She seems to be recovering nicely, by the way, after having been drawn and quartered by the American public for letting her then 9-year-old son Izzy take the subway by himself. As I posted back then:
Nancy McDermott writes for Spiked that Skenazy is considered by many to be guilty of child abuse because she gave her son, Izzy, 9, a $20 and a subway map, and trusted him to figure out that, from Bloomingdales, he should take the Lexington Avenue subway downtown and the 34th Street crosstown bus to get home."If he couldn't do that," Skenazy wrote in her column, "I trusted him to ask a stranger. And then I even trusted that stranger not to think, 'Gee, I was about to catch my train home, but now I think I'll abduct this adorable child instead.' Long story short: My son got home, ecstatic with independence."
And if you've read Barry Glassner's excellent book, The Culture of Fear: Why Americans Are Afraid of the Wrong Things, which he tells me he's now in the process of updating, you know that the number of children kidnapped by strangers every year is actually pretty small. Skenazy writes of the most recent statistics here, on The Daily Beast:
Their chances of being abducted and killed by a stranger are, according to the numbers (Finkelhor) crunched, 1 in 1.5 million. That's about 50 children a year--a statistic it makes my stomach sink to write--but far less than the 1,000 killed each year by relatives or acquaintances, a far more stomach-sinking stat.
When I was 10 I told my grandparents that I would no longer go to the horse tracks with them. I had been to every one in California, except those most north, and to the ones in the Mexican border towns (if they had said Jai Alai in Tijuana I would have gone). They would leave me alone up to 3 days alone, though usually only two. I knew how to cook, how to put out fires, how to detect gas leaks and what to do, change a fuse safely, and had the PD number by the rotary phone. I also had neighbors that could be trusted to help. We infantilize children now to an extent that makes me want to vomit.
I think this started with the Satanic scares of the 70s, the Daycare delusions of the 80s, and now the pedophile phantasms. We create much more our own hells than others bring hell to us.
Ariel at May 5, 2009 1:20 AM
The first sentence of the preceding comment, in context, makes a years' worth of blog comment reading worthwhile.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at May 5, 2009 2:51 AM
I think it's worth remembering that Adam Walsh (whose cruel abduction and murder started a lot of this) was with his mother in a store when he was kidnapped.
It also occurs to me that if I sent a 9-year-old out alone in a big city, I'd be more worried that he'd get mowed down in heavy traffic. There are more risks than just "stranger danger" out there for a kid.
But that said- not playing in your own yard? Geez. And I guess none of these folks ever jumped on their bikes on a warm summer afternoon and went out adventuring. Sad, really.
Lynne at May 5, 2009 5:21 AM
...And Crid's absolutely right about Ariel's comment.
Ariel, do you write? I think that first sentence would be a socko opening for a novel.
It reminds me of Paper Moon. :)
Lynne at May 5, 2009 5:24 AM
It is sad, scary and RIDICULOUS to think that Arlington, Va., is HOPING to create children who are totally dependent on their parents. Age 12 they should never be left alone late at night? That's the age many of us moms were babysitting. Considering that the crime level is back to where it was in 1970, after which it started climbing, anyone who was a kid doing ANYTHING out and about in the 70s and 80s was LESS SAFE than kids are today. This is hard to believe but it is zee truth and I am thrilled with this blog post by Amy who, like me, should still be prominently featured in the New York Daily News, telling it to the world!
-- Lenore "Free-Range Kids" Skenazy
Lenore Skenazy at May 5, 2009 6:15 AM
Thanks, Lenore, and so thrilled to see you leading the way on this. I was babysitting at age 12 -- and very responsible, too. Having responsibility helped make me responsible. For centuries and centuries, kids have taken care of younger kids. It's the coddling way they're raised now that makes them irresponsible. Again: give responsibility and create people who can take responsibility. Like Lenore did with her son. Anyone who's lived in New York City knows that it's actually a place where people will usually come to your aid if they see you're in trouble.
Amy Alkon at May 5, 2009 6:45 AM
Wow. I was babysitting three children under the age of 7 when I was 12 years old.
This is one of the reasons I'm so nervous about having kids of my own. I was raised by Depressesion-era kids, and the standards have changed so much from what I remember growing up. It seems that instead of a pedo behind every tree, there's a "concerned citizen" behind every tree ready to report you to CPS.
MonicaP at May 5, 2009 6:48 AM
No, Lynne, I don't write. It is simply what happened.
Ariel at May 5, 2009 6:51 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/05/05/the_terms_of_ch.html#comment-1646414">comment from MonicaPMy parents also offered me alcohol constantly -- "a taste" of whatever nasty crap my dad was drinking, or Manishewitz at the holidays. Nothing to make a kid blasé about drinking like having it be no big deal at home. These days, in New Jersey I think it is, and probably other states, a parent who gives their underage kid a sip of alcohol can be arrested, probably for child neglect.
Amy Alkon at May 5, 2009 6:51 AM
In my case -- my sister (12) and I (9-10) were left alone at home all day to fend for ourselves in the summer.
Granted, we were out in a rural environment, but my sister didn't care if I took off on my bike to the local food stand 5 miles away. Just had to be back before my mother. And I think my mother knew. ;-)
Granted, I was about 12 when I learned how to cross a city street safely. But even then it wasn't because I had a helicopter parent. It was because I was finally exposed to a "City".
Jim P. at May 5, 2009 6:55 AM
Recommended reading: Gavin de Becker's Protecting the Gift. Advises the best way to protect your child is to give them CONFIDENCE, not barriers.
Juliana at May 5, 2009 7:01 AM
Thank god someone is addressing this. Every time I go back to the US it drives me crazy. My niece was never allowed to play in the back yard without supervision, she's 16 now and she has to call when she gets on the school bus, and when she gets off the bus in the afternoon just in case she's abducted in the two blocks from the school bus stop to the front door. Looking from the outside in, it just seems ridiculous. My mother and sister live in a little town near Salem Ma in which the majority of the police blotter is about DUIs. Hasn't been a murder in years. Oh, but there's a kidnapper or a home invasion waiting around every corner.
What makes people like this? My pet theory is the number of times the words 'scary' 'threat' 'danger' etc are used in the media daily. 'the threat you don't know about' 'The danger in your medicine cabinet' language of fright used in mundane situations.
crella at May 5, 2009 7:13 AM
Oh, and thousands of Japanese schoolchildren WALK to school each day (gasp) with just the 6th graders looking after them, and thousands more use the subways in the afternoon to go to cram school in groups of two or three. Helicopter moms would die of heart attacks there.
crella at May 5, 2009 7:15 AM
" ... RIDICULOUS to think that Arlington, Va., is HOPING to create children who are totally dependent on their parents...."
It's not the least bit ridiculous if you look at it from the perspective of a government bureaucrat or a career politician:
When those over-protected children grow up, they will transfer their feelings of helplessness and dependency to the Government. They will instinctively feel grateful, and happily open their wallets, every time somebody comes along and says "I'm from the Government, and I'm here to protect you."
john w. at May 5, 2009 7:28 AM
My 5 yr old (2 days ago!) twins and 2 yr play in our yard alone every day. That's why I got a yard. I was babysitting at 11. By 13 I was babysitting till well after midnight. And even now as a parent thinking back, I see nothing I did or didn't do that I'd be uncomfortable with a sitter doing with my kids. Responsibility is a good thing.
I have a friend I really respect with parenting, and she does as she sees fit and doesn't worry about CPS. She has even-gasp-spanked them in public. That's ballsy nowadays.
momof3 at May 5, 2009 7:47 AM
Amy, the age of ten was one of those landmark years for me. I had my first ride on a DC-3, unattended of course except for a very cute stewardess, to start visiting my mother in the summers. She had only been back from Paris a few years and wine was served with dinner when appropriate. So I had my first taste of Cabernet.
I also put a word to something that had been puzzling me since I was about four: atheist. My grandparents took my epiphany in stride, my mother not so much. Many years later I found out my father, my maternal grandfather, and some distant male ancestors were also atheists.
Ariel at May 5, 2009 7:51 AM
I fondly remember being locked out of the house during summertime so my mom could get some peace and quiet. I remember being bribed with a Coke so we would go to the park three blocks away. I remember being able to cross the street at 6 years old because I had mastered looking both ways before crossing. And we lived right next to one of the busiest streets in town. I used to go on runs for hours when I was 10, just me and my walkman. I was babysitting at 12, sometimes until 2 or 3 in the morning. I got paid pretty well too. I watched my niece overnight when she was just a few months old and I was 14.
And all of this freedom was afforded me even though I was very nearly kidnapped and molested by a known child molester when I was 5. I was at a water park and wandered off when this creep tried to corner me. I had sense enough at 5 years old to know he was up to no good and yelled at him at the top of my lungs to leave me alone. My mother saw him and protected me. Several days later, he was arrested for molesting another little girl.
My point being, kids that are allowed to wander free know when something is not quite right. I believe coddling dulls their senses.
maureen at May 5, 2009 7:53 AM
Heh. My father worked at a YMCA camp when I was young, and he took me to work with him during the summer, starting at either age 4 or 5. In the beginning, I spent the entire day with him, where I would hang out and help him (he was the maintenance man, I would fetch tools and such), then started going to the activities the campers did, and by the time I was 7 or 8, I was frequently roaming the woods and creeks alone. The only time I got in trouble was when I once went fishing and wasn't back to the mess hall (where dad would come before going home) before he got there, and hadn't told him where I was going beforehand.
WayneB at May 5, 2009 7:57 AM
Oops, I cut and paste from Word and left this out:
All of these experiences from my childhood are why I am sickened by how we are infantilizing our children. Out of needless fear. We do them no favors.
Ariel at May 5, 2009 7:58 AM
Amen, john w., you've got that right! Like Amy and Lenore, I was babysitting when I was 12, for 2 younger brothers and many of the other little kids on my block. I would take them to the playground at the end of our street, or 3 blocks further down the road to the beach. We'd walk to the center of town to get ice cream, we'd bike to the other beaches in our town to meet our friends. I got my first telephone when I was 14 with the money I saved up from babysitting and delivering papers. (My older brother and I had paper routes, as did a few of our friends. I gave mine up my sophomore year in high school, when I started waitressing.) It amazes me how book-smart people are, and yet are so dumbed-down to the point of having absolutely no street smarts or common sense. I let my girls ride their bikes whenever and wherever they want; I trust them to know where they're going, and to be home on time. They've been very good about it so far! I let daughter #1 go to her first concert a couple of years ago (she was 13), and told her to steer clear of any assholery or dumbfuckery and she'd be fine. She knew exactly what I meant, and even told about some of the stupidity she saw. She had a great time, as I knew she would. Parents today are seem to be getting vilified just for letting their kids do what THEY used to do when they were kids. WTF??
o.O
Flynne at May 5, 2009 7:58 AM
As kids, we went everywhere without adults breathing down our necks -- by foot, bike, and even on horseback.
One thing, though. Back then (the sixties), there were a lot more kids, so you were rarely all by yourself. An informal buddy-system was in effect.
BTW, I also took babysitting jobs as an adolescent. This was before the "all males are predators" hysteria. Those who assert that boys should never babysit are just haters.
Jay R at May 5, 2009 8:06 AM
How about this instead (only slightly tongue-in-cheek):
12-13: Can be left alone for up to one week at a time, as long as there is a self-defense firearm in the house, and they know how to use it.
14-16: Should be free to travel anywhere in the USA or Canada, as long as they are paying their own way and have read "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn."
16 and up: Same as above, but anywhere in the world. Upon returning home, should be encouraged to get full-time jobs, settle down, marry, and raise families of their own.
lurker-999 at May 5, 2009 8:33 AM
God, don't get me started. Arlington is simply codifying a mentality that is rampant in the DC area - helicopter parenting (and in this case, it's Blackhawk helicopter parenting). I work with several women who not only won't let their kids be unattended for more than 5 minutes, but also they would NEVER let anyone else watch over their children (other than family and very close friends). That means no babysitters ever. In some cases, they can't even put in a normal work day because they simply must be the ones to both drop off and pick up their kids from school. You can't be too safe! Their marriages have to suffer on some level, because these couples rarely get to spend any time together without a child in their presence. It's even worse in August, when many child care facilities and programs in the DC area shut down for a week to give the employees a vacation. Parents in my office won't look for alternative care options, nor will they just stay home, so they bring their kiddies to work with them. For two weeks every August, my office turns into a glorified day care center.
All this hovering and fear seems to be turning the kids into basket cases at an early age. My neighbor shares custody of his 12-year old daughter with his ex-wife. The ex-wife has turned the kid into a neurotic who is afraid of her own shadow. The kid is frightened out of her mind to sleep in her own bedroom if the window is open, and she has never been allowed to play in the backyard by herself, despite the presence of a five-foot tall security fence. As a result, the kid does not know how to be alone.
I grew up in the midwest, where all the kids played together in each others' yards with the vague, but quite effective, instruction from all our parents to "come home when the street lights come on." In the glorious summer months, we'd be outside playing until well after 8:00 p.m. My parents didn't hesitate to leave us with a responsible babysitter, recommended by the neighbors, so they could go out to dinner and the movies like normal adults. By the time my sisters and I hit our teens, my parents would even leave us on our own for a night or two so they could have a weekend to themselves. All of us kids had part-time jobs (apparently now another rarity among white middle-class teens) so we weren't home enough to get into trouble, and the neighbors would have ratted us out if we had tried anything. We also were expected to clean up after ourselves, and were taught basic domestic skills, so that we could function just fine in my parents' absence.
Like Amy, we were allowed to drink wine occasionally, and we were even allowed the occasional "girl drink" at summer family get-togethers. My uncle made fantastic fresh strawberry daiquiris.
My parents raised kids who were reasonably independent and able to function on their own without falling apart. These things served us very well when we went off to college -- none of us lost our minds over all that newfound freedom, nor did we immediately bolt for home out of homesickness and a need for clean laundry. I suspect that this generation of kids being raised under modified house arrest may not fare so well when left to their own devices.
(End of rant)
Ms. Gandhi at May 5, 2009 8:55 AM
Jay R you are so right about people being so crazy about boys babysitting. My best friend has a little boy and girl and she loves this teenage boy in the neighborhood who babysits for them. And her son loves having a super cool teen teaching him boy stuff you can't learn from a dad. But when she mentioned this once while we were all out at a party two other moms almost wet themselves, convinced her children were being molested even as we spoke.
Fink-Nottle at May 5, 2009 9:10 AM
This is degenerating into anectode hour.
So I'll add mine to the mix.
Walking home from the school bus stop, alone, with key at age 8. Roughouse and jump out of trees with other Bus Stop Kids for an hour, then go home. Remained unsupervised for roughly 2 more hours every day. Damage: skinned knees and a lifelong love of Top Ramen and syndicated television. I always felt bad for the kids who were picked up from school by their parents.
Earlier than that (age 5 or so) featured many summer hours supervised only by my 9 year old brother and his band of bicycle hooligans. The liquer store on Fairburn and Santa Monica was a frequent destination . . . for bubble gum and baseball cards. Shockingly, the proprietor would not sell us booze or skin mags. Nor did he kidnap any of us.
snakeman99 at May 5, 2009 9:34 AM
I follow Lenore's philosophy, and my 8 year old son is a free range kid (my son reads Lenore's blog posts, but not Amy's. Yet;-) We live in a small college town, and in the suburbs. And even though the elementary school is three blocks away, and across only one residential road, I am the anti-christ for letting my son go to and from school alone.
And it's not just people being freaky about boys babysitting. It may be that I'm a single father, and it seems to scare the shit out of some of these people. A couple of my son's friends are not allowed to come to my house because, in their words 'I am a single parent, and have different rules. Maybe if I get married again'. WTF?
I didn't choose to be a single dad, my ex wife lost her license to practice medicine due to prescription drug abuse, then went completely batshit nuts on meth, and is subsequently doing a long prison sentence. Shit, I wrote a pretty popular book about it. To me, people are just being over-protective, coddling hypocritical assholes. And oddly enough when my son was an infant, even though the estranged wife and I had to share custody for awhile, no one ever questioned her about being a shitty mother. Of course she called CPS on me constantly, and I got to be good friends with the CPS folks in Houston. And ultimately the family court booted her out of my son's life, then the criminal courts convicted her.
So I suppose in my case, many of the subjects Amy discusses daily in her blog affect me. I am a pretty good father even though I never planned this. And I gave up my career for a few years so I could do the right thing. But I do sometimes find myself walking on eggshells, because I know from experience what one call to children's services can do to a guy like me.
sterling at May 5, 2009 9:57 AM
I can't believe you parents let your children outside. They might get swine flu!
Abducted!
Blown up by terrorists!
Taxed by Democrats!
Borrowed from by Republicans!
Proselytized by Christians!
Obfuscated by bureaucrats!
It's scary out there. Only watching TV will keep you safe. Never, ever turn off the TV.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at May 5, 2009 10:03 AM
I was at 5 or maybe 6 allowed the run of my neighborhood and would go off on my bike to roam the woods and creeks nearby or ride on the hilly school parking lot a few blocks away. Snacks and barbie's in tow! I had to be home for dinner. I babysat at 9. I was so totally independent that I think it made me so better able to take care of myself now as an adult. I cannot imagine not having the run of my neighborhood growing up. I was on the bike after breakfast until I got hungry again... or dinner time arrived. It was pure bliss.
Melody at May 5, 2009 10:58 AM
Yah!! Thank you for bringing up this topic and plugging the Free Range Kids book and website. I am a huge fan of both (I bought the book through Amy's Amazon link). As I've told Lenore, when I was 7 and older I was not merely allowed, but REQUIRED to walk to and from school and anywhere else that I wanted to go in the neighborhood. I have no memories whatsoever of my mother taking me to the park at age 8 (I would have been humiliated to have been supervised at that age, and other kids would have made fun of me). My kids are 9 and 6, and while I don't trust them home alone yet, I do tell them to go out and play and just be sure to inform me where they are going.
Karen at May 5, 2009 12:27 PM
More than interesting article and comments. Had me wondering if I kept a tighter grip on my child than what was kept on me because I had followed the herd, you know drank the kool aid.
I walked home and to school by myself since age of five (only two blocks). Was gone all day during the summer from probably 10 yrs old on. All this in a gang infested area of So. Cal. And here living in a rural part of the south with no gangs to speak of I would never even think of letting my ten yr old do the same things I did. How fucked up am I?
Then it hit me I was 5 in 1973 the world has changed we had no crack heads trolling the hoods looking for what ever it would take to get a 20. I have heard cops in the more rural deserty type places around So. Cal say that they can be 99% sure if they are called because of some kind of screwed up sex crime involving children Meth was involved. Crack was non existant in my child hood. It swept my town in the summer of 86 when I was 18. Meth was probably available but still mostly amongst bikers and truckers. The world has changed. By the time I was twenty I saw a difference in the way parents back home watched after their children. They had good reason. Don't get me wrong I know they had coke heads in the seventies, acid in the sixties, and when I was 9 I spent the early hours of christmas day watching the helicopters circle a block behind my house at the school I walked to as a neighber of mine on PCP tried to shoot them down. But these things were limited to small groups. People with money (70's coke), hippies (60's acid), and idiots (anytime PCP). Whole lot of pot heads any old time. Comparitively not very dangerous to the general populous. But you might call crack an epidemic. And from my own experience Meth has an entire sub culture all it's own.
So all in all I will try and be free'er to a degree with my son as he gets older and more capable of taking care of himself, but I will keep a more protective eye than my parents did and with good reason.
PVM at May 5, 2009 12:37 PM
Something tells me Ms. Gandhi neibors daughter is going to wind up a battered woman.
And sterling, you ought to go to all the parents of the kids not allowed to play at you house, and give them stacks of government data, and tell them that given you child if far more likely to be molested or killed by a maiired suburban housewife than a single father your child will no longer be allowed to go to their house, and perhpas they should let their children play in the homes of their 'safely married' acquaintances
lujlp at May 5, 2009 1:12 PM
Sheesh.
The first time I walked to Newton Center alone I was 6. I had to cross Beacon Street, which is fairly busy. I was getting a quart of ice cream for the family. I was so proud!
The first time I was left alone with my brother, I was 7 and he was 2, it was for an hour while my dad dropped my Mom off at the airport.
When I was fourteen, and brother was 9, we travelled unaccompanied and sans stewardess or "UM" baggie to Geneva, which included a change of planes in Zurich.
I fully intend to let my kids wander around, go to the town center, stay home while I run quick errands, etc. And since one set of their grandparents lives in Boston and the other lives in Switzerland, I anticipate them taking planes alone.
NicoleK at May 5, 2009 1:19 PM
I find it hard to believe the government knows better than most children's parents on what constitutes child neglect.
Let's take for example the govt.'s substandard handling of the public schools, child protective services, subsidized guardianship programs, child welfare and other social systems as they relate to under age children. All systems were implemented for children's *well being* - and all systems are a complete clusterfuck and waste of tax-payer money (waste in money comment being directed at how they are currently operated).
By further example, take a real life story of child neglect; that of a little girl named Rilya Wilson. She was a foster child who was "lost" in the Florida Department of Children and Families (DCF) system. And by "lost" I mean, it took this Dept almost two years to find out she had gone "missing" from her government selected caretakers home. (The caretaker didn’t report her disappearance either, which makes her a highly suspicious candidate for murder, but we will never know...since it took the Department TWO FREAKING YEARS to follow up on her).
I wonder how many children are "neglected" and or go missing (as with Rilya) within the government's idea of a proper social/welfare system?
(I get so pissed when i read this shit!)
Feebie at May 5, 2009 1:20 PM
I had zero common sense as a kid when it came to strangers. In the city mom kept a pretty tight hold of me. I wasn't allowed to drive to certain places because a wrong turn or two would put me deep into the bad parts of the city.
But in our rural/suburban neighborhood? I ran wild. I could saddle up our pony for a trail ride (as long as someone responsible knew where I'd be). I'd take the dog on a five mile walk around the "block" or take a six mile round trip hike for ice cream. And at 13 I was baby sitting for 6 hours a weekend (8-2am) for the grand fortune of $20.
And
Elle at May 5, 2009 1:59 PM
Sorry about the hanging conjunction. I must have stupid fingers today
Elle at May 5, 2009 2:32 PM
There's a basic principle driving this hysteria that you should learn about and heed - it's "If Only One Child Syndrome".
All of the fear, the frantic efforts to insulate small people from the world, the stunting of their growth, comes from overreacting to some situation that has punished the idiot and their progeny - but it is immediately seized as a major issue and made law, with promises of "safety".
You should ask yourself what that is.
It has led us to treat the valedictorian like the thug, the soldier home on leave like a child because she's not in uniform and demeaned us in so many other ways.
For if you insist that a law be passed to protect the idiot, the law applies to you. Hello, Consumer Product Safety Commission: kids don't eat motorcycles.
There is a car commercial where the vehicle is driving on the Moon. The disclaimer appears: "Professional driver - Do Not Attempt."
I hate it all.
Radwaste at May 5, 2009 2:44 PM
Egads, I used to play cricket on the street as a kid. Usually in summer, after dinner.
At 11, I was walking to my best friends house and back alone, sometimes staying the night.
Sometimes she and our other best friend would go to the big park nearby. No special ground cover, just lots of tanbark. Mostly made from wood and metal, and really, really big. It was awesome. And they've since killed it with all the stupid "safety measures".
sonja at May 5, 2009 3:13 PM
My mom would certainly be charged; we often played outside - in the street no less - and rode around the neighborhoods for hours on our bikes. It was just normal, nobody ever gave it a second thought.
What worries me is what kind of *adults* are these kids going to be become ... I suppose they'll need "mommy and daddy government" holding their hands every step of the way in this big mean scary world. It's bad enough that so many twenty-somethings these days are already so much like children.
DavidJ at May 5, 2009 5:03 PM
If anyone had tried to stop my 12-year-old proto-capitalistic self from babysitting, they would have regretted it. That's all I can say.
I think all of this is the confluence of several factors:
1) Familial/societal breakdown: There are a lot of kids out there whose parents are awful or absent. Policies get made to protect them, and end up sweeping in a lot of kids with perfectly good parents.
2) Media: We hear about just about every gruesome thing that happens to a child in the U.S. No one reports on the countless kids who go through life perfectly safe, because that's not news. Parents get a skewed view of risk as a result.
3) Awareness: To be fair, as of about 25 years ago, the ability of police departments to react quickly to a suspected abduction was little to none. Then the Adam Walsh case came along. John Walsh was absolutely right about the need for law enforcement to change how it responded to kids being in danger - the problem came from the fact that the countless kids who are "kidnapped" by non-custodial parents or relatives without being in any physical danger get lumped in together with the kids kidnapped by strangers for nefarious purposes, making people believe that unknown abductors are lurking around every corner. I don't blame John Walsh for not emphasizing this fact too strongly as he was trying to effect a sea change in response to endangered kids, but the end result can border on hysteria.
marion at May 5, 2009 6:05 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/05/05/the_terms_of_ch.html#comment-1646551">comment from marion1) Familial/societal breakdown: There are a lot of kids out there whose parents are awful or absent. Policies get made to protect them, and end up sweeping in a lot of kids with perfectly good parents.
I didn't think about this, but I think you're right.
Amy Alkon at May 5, 2009 6:15 PM
Amy,
Maybe I am too young to know about a lot of the things you are posting about. Have heard of them, but not experienced.
Transitioning from being always watched to working on my own did not take long, but there was some anxiety.
When I grew up I was always watched by someone and there were always arranged activities, like sports or art or whatever.
Same with all of my peers in the neighborhoods we lived in.
Mom and Dad talk about the stuff you are talking about and you are closer to my age than theirs, but I wish I got to do the stuff you guys are talking about. Would have been easier out on my own, or in college, if I had that experience first.
Suki
Suki at May 5, 2009 6:44 PM
Lenore Skenazy,
It is sad, scary and RIDICULOUS to think that Arlington, Va., is HOPING to create children who are totally dependent on their parents.
Both writer friend John and beloved boyfriend remind me in chat that Arlington County, VA recently was "asking" their citizens to register their legally owned guns with the ARL Co. Police "just in case".
Seems neither of them knew that this URL http://www.co.arlington.va.us/police/gun_registration.asp is no longer active. Punch that into Google and you might see why.
It is cute to see the cops there have a "Gay and Lesbian Liaison Team (GLLT)" http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/Police/gllt.aspx as if they are preparing for an space alien experience.
AMY! John got the first of the Amazon site set up! Thanks for your and Greg's help!
Suki at May 5, 2009 7:12 PM
Sadly, there are also things that kids today must know how to deal with that were not as serious in their parents generation. They need to be mature in different ways and deal correctly with different potentially dangerous issues than we did.
My children are under strict orders to say absolutely nothing to any authority figure except "I want my Dad" and if that fails "I want my lawyer". Silence is to be maintained otherwise. The sad truth is, "trust any authority figure only as a last resort and then only grudgingly". If you are willing to be grounded for a month for talking to them, it might be appropriate to actually talk to them.
Where their parents generation needed to know how to keep from burning down the house when the parents were out or "guns are not toys". The current generation must be aware of the capricious and vast powers of just about any agent of the state that they come in contact with. Something that was thought to be a harmless prank on their part could have dire consequences when noted by some humorless, incompetent who is "only there to help them".
Honestly, I think the world of my childhood was simpler. I only had to worry about not stupidly hurting myself or damaging the house while my parents were out. These days, an off the cuff comment to the wrong person can do more damage to their lives and families than I could have managed by setting the house on fire. I think it is harder to be a kid in today's world than you think.
Artifex at May 5, 2009 10:12 PM
> Recommended reading: Gavin
> de Becker's Protecting the Gift
A friend insisted I read his first book, which was OK. I only read the introduction to this one, but it was really impressive; He essentially said "Stand down!" to everyone who'd used his first book as an excuse to panic. He could have made a gazillion dollars telling people to panic for the next thirty years, becoming the go-to guy every time the networks needed a quote about an abduction or a wife-beating. (Some friends who know him as a businessman suggest that wouldn't have been a surprise.) But instead, he did the right thing.
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at May 6, 2009 2:16 AM
I had a neighbor (divorced with 3 daughters born while she was in her teens) who routinely left the girls overnight or almost all night when the oldest was 12. These girls did not have a father to speak of and were already getting involved inappropriately with guys. When I called DHS about my concerns, I was told that as long as the oldest was 12 or older, there was nothing they could do about it.
I agree with marion that what seems like overprotective policy reflects the familial/societal breakdown we are experiencing today. The state is always a poor substitute for good parents.
tnxplant at May 6, 2009 5:55 AM
When I was in 3rd grade (started at 8 years old), I walked home from school most days that weather permitted. It was about 1.5 miles. I was unsupervised. Lots of kids walked to and from school, some longer distance than me. This was not at all unusual and did not draw the slightest interest of the school's administration or anyone else.
Yep, times have changed.
Donald Sensing at May 6, 2009 6:02 AM
NYC's offical rules are even worse - no "alone" till adult per CPS, or at least that's what my daughter's Jr High said
I can remember one day when my daughter was about 8 - she was waiting for the school bus on the porch, while we were just inside the door - we actually got a call that a report to CPS was made - we were all of about 5 feet from her, watching
Has it made us paranoid? You bet! They have the power to mess up your life. My daughter, now 12 is like "How come you won't let me say home for more than 20-30 minutes without you" Our anser is "Because the city won't LET us - WE think you can, but it's not what WE think, it's what the Govt says"
KG2V at May 6, 2009 6:04 AM
"I agree with marion that what seems like overprotective policy reflects the familial/societal breakdown we are experiencing today. The state is always a poor substitute for good parents."
Have to agree here, too. I'm not a parent, so feel free to yell "horse puckey" at anything I say, but what I have observed in the last 30 years is the development of two distinct modes of parenting. And one type of parents is very worried about the other.
I grew up in rural SC, in the 1970's and '80s. My classmates were not wealthy. Yet I knew of very few single-parent homes, very few pregnant teens, and very few kids who did not have some sort of constant supervision. I got to stay home alone all day, all summer, from the time I was 10, and that gave me the most freedom of anyone in my social circle. It wasn't that parents were super-watchful, but more moms were stay-at-home mothers then, or there was at least an older sibling or relative in the house. No matter what, there seemed to be one cultural code, one ideal of behavior, and one set of rules that all parents strived to impose.
When I moved to surburban Philadelphia in the 90's, I was astonished at the number of non-teenage kids that I'd see outside at 10 or 11 o'clock at night. It was clear that a small but growing subset of parents were providing NO rules, NO curfews, and almost no supervision.
I've never heard a protective parent express a fear about a childnapper. I have heard them express fear that their children might pick up bad IDEAS from certain unsupervised kids - the idea that it's okay to smoke or do drugs, it's okay to drop out of high school, it's okay to have intercourse with your boyfriend at 14. I think parents whose protective nature would otherwise be more moderate look around these days and see a growing shift in the culture, and they don't like it.
Kimberly at May 6, 2009 6:06 AM
We're raising a generation of helpless pussies. I would complain except I'm raising my self-reliant little warrior to be their dictator. (And why not? Someone's gonna be...)
Shaky Barnes at May 6, 2009 6:10 AM
I grew up in the 70s and am now a foster dad (and recently adoptive dad). Very interesting thread.
Not once in my childhood did I ever wear a bicycle helmet or see one worn by anybody except in a race, child or adult.
I walked or rode my bike EVERYWHERE without my parents. They heaved a sigh of relief when I got to be about 7 or 8, since I could take myself anywhere in town without their help. A man once offered me a ride when I was 8. He looked vaguely familiar but I couldn't place him, so I turned him down. Turned out he was one of the teachers in the other school (you'd think a teacher would know better than to offer rides to kids they don't know).
I shot a .22 when I was 9. I lit firecrackers and bottle rockets since I can remember. I spent many, many hours hanging out alone or (usually) in small groups down by the river. I was about 10 when I made my first all-day bike ride to the lake cabin 70 miles away.
Any and all of these done by any of my foster kids would not only get my fostering license revoked, but probably get me thrown in jail for a good spell.
And the world moves along.
Dan at May 6, 2009 6:12 AM
Hells bells, when we where 11-12 yrs. old (back in the late '60s) me and my buddies and brother would walk a half mile to a major street and catch the bus to downtown, mess around there and go home by dark. We'd leave home early in the morning and walk several miles to a freeway excavation pond to go fishing. We are raising a bunch of wimpy pansies, no wonder other countries are kicking our butts... we've got no guts anymore! Man up, people!
Wild Bill at May 6, 2009 6:40 AM
Another thing, on the abduction angle... God help anyone who would attempt to grab one of us, we were mean, lean, nasty little sh**s when provoked. My brother beat up a twenty something guy who was messing with him, bloodied him good. I personally took a book bag to a young guy and cut the heck out of him with the metal corners by wailing at him with it. He never messed with me or mine again. Dad (a city police officer) always told us to defend ourselves, and we did. Mess with us once and it was your last act in our neighborhood. No one went crying to mama about it either.
Wild Bill at May 6, 2009 6:48 AM
Hahahahahahahahah!
In my town in suburban NYC (no backwoods nook) We HAD to WALK to school. Must have been 1/2 mile. They did not provide bus service that close.
There were sidewalks in part of the town, but most other parts didn't have side walks until you got to the main road.
I walked to the library (I could bike -- the hill was too steep) and 'downtown' all of my life. I walked home from the dentist. Darn. if missed the school bus when I was in elementary school I would walk down town and catch the later one.
When we visited my grandparents I walked up the road to the town park (from which they have now removed the flying monkey rings -- too dangerous I suppose.)
I was babysitting when I was 12. So were my daughters.
And 16 and 17 year olds? Give me a break. It depends on the kid. At 18 we send young people to Afghanistan and they can vote, but at 17 they can't be "left" alone?
You have an idiot or two, so someone writes a law to tie up the rest of us.
JAL at May 6, 2009 7:10 AM
at age 8, he not only played in his Queens backyard unattended, he remembers being "free to wander around" his neighborhood "unaccompanied by an adult so long as I came home before dark"
That was before the days of NAMBLA and the homosexual juggernaut.
Times change and things are different now. Did you watch the OReilly Report piece about the judge who gave a two-time pedophile bail?
Think again, folks. This is what the culture war has brought to America. The next time you feel the urge to vote for a Democrat, remember that judge and the two-time pedophile who got bail.
Paul A'Barge at May 6, 2009 7:46 AM
I swear, it is my worst f@#$ing fear that my child will be taken away from me because of one of these stupidass rules.
Melissa G at May 6, 2009 7:52 AM
Perhaps I live in a community that is the exception that proves the rule. My small suburb of San Francisco is cut off from any major freeway, so that adds to our feeling of overall peace, but my son walks to school, as do all the kids in the neighborhood. My younger son, 10, rode his bike (by himself) to and from the tennis club all summer for his tennis lessons last year. My older kid did the same for swimming. And I see loads of kids riding their bikes to and from baseball, etc. My older son (13) takes himself to and from church on a weeknight for his middle school program and he has to cross a major road BY HIMSELF! At 8:00 pm!! And he's not the only one. So, while I am sadly aware of helicopter parents, there are pockets of sanity (even in the Bay Area!) but you have to look for them. And while I live in a pretty safe area, we do have crime. But I can't imagine a cop here pulling some kid over for walking to soccer practice! The self appointed environmental police (who frankly are a worse problem than the annoying helicopter parents) would have a fit if someone suggested you should drive rather than walk!
Julie at May 6, 2009 8:41 AM
I agree! When I was in Kindergarten my brother and sister and I all took the city bus to school sans parents. My brother was in third grade and sister was probably in fifth grade at the time. We also spent countless hours playing in the old "empty lot" down the street from our house. We roamed, ate fruit from random trees, pretended to run away, tying handkerchiefs to sticks like the three little pigs... we climbed trees regularly and played in the various neighborhood yards for hours upon hours upon hours. I wouldn't trade all of that for anything in the world.
Nan at May 6, 2009 9:33 AM
I am a board certified pediatrician and father of five. I have violated each and every one of the Arlington guidelines.
I also remember being (no joke) 3 years old and having the freedom to wander the neighborhood. The only rules were 1) home by dark, and 2) hold the hand of any adult when I crossed the street.
How exactly am I supposed to walk the dog when I am home alone with the kids and they are upstairs asleep???
asf at May 6, 2009 9:41 AM
Be glad you did not grow up 100 years ago. Here is link to a picture from 1908 of two young boys, one is 14 with 8 years experience in the mill. But I guess they had adult suprevision.
http://www.shorpy.com/node/5755?size=_original
BCN
BCN at May 6, 2009 10:42 AM
Think again, folks. This is what the culture war has brought to America. The next time you feel the urge to vote for a Democrat, remember that judge and the two-time pedophile who got bail.
Posted by: Paul A'Barge
And the homos right Paul, cant forget those homos
lujlp at May 6, 2009 10:51 AM
When I was 12, at my request, my parents agreed to let me use money I'd earned as a paper boy, to ride a Greyhound bus from Florida, to Arizona, to visit my grandparents. Alone. For 4 days I was in the custody of whichever driver I happened to get, ably assisted by my fellow passengers, young and old, who fed and entertained me, and probably kept an eye out for me in other ways.
Giant Bob at May 6, 2009 1:10 PM
OK, one more into the anecdote file: It was the mid-70's and we 8-10 year olds would wander around within about 5 or 6 blocks from home, in general. We got into a "ring-and-run" habit for a while for a couple of days when there wasn't much else to do (well, there never was).
So, this one guy must have been really close to his door when we rang it and took off. He chased us for about 100 yards into a large school yard - I mean 10 or more acres, but everything seems bigger when you are a little kid. At that point we all split up naturally, so he couldn't chase us all down - he caught up to a kid named Tony (changed to protect the innocent, of course). The guy kicked Tony in the ass fairly hard.
Well, while the other three of us were just laughing, Tony was pretty peeved about it, and decided he would tell his mother about it when we got home. We tried to persuade him that that was a stupid idea, as we would then have to explain the ringing-and-running. I can't remember what happened then, as I think it was dinner time, and all was forgotten.
I can guarantee you, that in those days, Tony's Mom would not have considered being upset at the ring-and-run victim - nowadays, the issue would come up at least to the district circuit court level. What a f___ed up country we live in!
Dave Lincoln at May 6, 2009 1:52 PM
I have two young sons and I am so conflicted about all of it. I want them to be responsible and do let them play by themselves, but I still keep an ear out for them. They are still young enough, younger than four and almost two, that it is kind of necessary. I don't want to be a helicopter mom, but I also don't anything to happen to them. And, unfortunately, it does happen. My cousin, unfortunately, is one of those statistics. In 1993, she was abducted from her school bus stop after she got off and eventually killed (the murder still hasn't been solved so whether it was a stranger or a friend, relative or acquaintance who knows). This was in a rural area where one locked their doors and every one looked out for each other. With this always in the back of my mind, it is hard to think about the fact that it doesn't happen that often, etc. On the other hand, I can't imagine when they get seven or so, not letting them ride their bikes around the neighborhood (provided they show they know the rules of the road before hand) by themselves. And they will be long time playing in the yard by themselves. Already do occasionally.
Cynedra at May 6, 2009 4:35 PM
Paul A'Barge - just what about your statement says that such people did not exist twenty or thirty years ago? Or a hundred?
Life isn't fair. If your kids don't learn this early, they'll learn it late, and probably with bigger consequences. Little Precious is also learning that government is more important than parents and that you cannot defend yourself without government stepping all over you, because of adult actions to force government to do what they won't individually, like deal with neighbors. Lawn depth has to be a law.
Radwaste at May 6, 2009 8:52 PM
When I was a kid there was always adults around even when they were not obvious. If one of us kids needed something (and there was almost always at least 2 of us) we could run and get help with out much trouble... the retirees up on the hill, the stay-at-home-wife on the corner, (sometimes) the nurse across the street, etc. And the nieghbors knew who each other were. Now, everyone works and have no idea who the neighbors are.
The former banker at May 6, 2009 11:43 PM
I'm 24 years old, and I grew up in Marin County, CA, maybe the epicenter of paranoid parenting. Although strict, both my parents realized that they had become strong people largely because of unsupervised growth experiences. They let me roam creek beds for hours on end, walk my dog in the hills, etc. It was great, but I wonder if would have been the same had we lived 40 minutes away in San Francisco. I believe parenting styles should reflect (to a limited extent) the surrounding environment.
IanTheTerrible at May 7, 2009 12:25 PM
* 16 to 17 years: May be left unsupervised for up to two consecutive overnight periods.
I find this part remarkably funny. I moved away from home (out of state even) when I was 17. Colleges readily admit kids at 16/17 as long as they have their HS diploma or GED. This is remarkably silly.
-Julie
Julie at May 14, 2009 7:25 AM
I'm WAY late for commenting on this post, but I was by myself after school for two hours daily from 8 years old on, and when I was 14, my stepmother kicked me out of the house, and my father's response was to rent me my own cheap apartment.
I survived. I finished high school, went to college.
Of course, I did end up listening to the mindless school counselors who told me to "do whatever I loved" and ended up with two history degrees, as I've complained about earlier...
But I've never done drugs, never committed a crime upwards of speeding on the highway, etc. And I was left alone.
Jessica Kunkel at May 22, 2009 1:08 PM
Also late to the party.
16 and 17 year olds left unsupervised for up to two days?? Horrors. I was living in my own apartment at 16, for the love of joe.
All of these anecdotes are so interesting and resemble my own childhood (latchkey at 8, babysitting at 11, walking or biking to friends' miles away, building EEK! FIRES! etc.) I still see my oldest, 5, as so helpless and baby-like but I know, from my own upbringing, that I'll have to grit my teeth and let her exert her independence.
She's going to be riding the bus to kindergarten in the fall and looks forward to it. She has lately been talking about taking a walk around the block all by herself and while I doubt I'll feel OK with that in our neighborhood unless she has other children with her, I want her to do it when SHE feels ready. Empowerment and self-confidence intact, and building her street smarts - little by little. That's how I did it and that's how I hope for her to do it too.
reen at June 3, 2009 12:42 PM
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