Planning Any Criminal Activity This Weekend?
Say, the criminal sale of old, nearly worthless crap? If you're having a garage sale, bad news -- you're probably breaking the law. But, lucky you, the feds have, most helpfully, put out a booklet to let you know. (Wonder how much that cost us taxpayers.) Not that they're likely to send out goon squads to arrest garage sale proprietors across the country. But, as long as the economy really sucks, they thought it would be nice to put a wee chill on your ideas for making ends meet.
At Catholic Information, Ian blogs about the latest CPSIA (Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act) idiocy:
Well, welcome to a federal government that the Founding Fathers would have risen up in arms against:This handbook will help sellers of used products identify types of potentially hazardous products that could harm children or others. CPSC's laws and regulations apply to anyone who sells or distributes consumer products. This includes thrift stores, consignment stores, charities, and individuals holding yard sales and flea markets.Maybe you didn't really care about the law before because it was only putting small retailers and work at home moms out of business. Hopefully you will care about it now that you can be slapped with a $100,000 fine for selling your kids' old books at a yard sale.
This is what happens when people think it really doesn't matter who's in office, and elect rectums instead of people with brains. Mr. Rarely Veto, George W. Bush, signed this thing, and Nitwit Pelosi bragged about how she, George Rush, and other Dimocrats pushed it through. Michigan Democrat John Dingell did call for amending the CPSIA, with that rare Congressional quality of common sense as his guide, but he was, of course, roundly ignored.
via reason and Walter Olson
Not that they're likely to send out goon squads to arrest garage sale proprietors across the country.
It is not the governments goons that would scare me (still scary)it is the private lawyers with the words - class action lawsuit, litigation and civil damages. The government is not really the one enforcing things like the Americans with Disabilities act it is the over litigious assholes and their lawyers that enforce them.
John Paulson at May 8, 2009 1:45 AM
You're absolutely right. People can use bad laws for nasty gain.
Amy Alkon at May 8, 2009 1:51 AM
I wonder if you could get around the law by posting a sign.
Warnig the items for sale are collectors items and not to be given to or used by anyone proteced under the CPSIA. Stepping on my property is consent to hold me, and anyone connected to me blamless for any harm. The act of purchasing anything for sale is a waiver of your right to sue.
lujlp at May 8, 2009 4:19 AM
I wonder if you could get around the law by posting a sign.
While I'm no lawyer, I kind of doubt it, although I wonder how something like the CPSIA would be enforced at a yard sale. Would somebody buy your ancient copy of Pat the Bunny or Goodnight Moon, test it for hazards, and sue you into oblivion if it tests positive?
By the way, if there's no particular classification for laws of this type, might I suggest calling them Malicious Busybody Laws?
old rpm daddy at May 8, 2009 4:34 AM
I would try and hold my rummage sales in a ski mask in another county in a empty house for sale. Even then I still might get tracked down and hit with a lawsuit. And NO I AM NOT PARANOID. SHH somebody is at the door.
John Paulson at May 8, 2009 5:03 AM
Oh, no! Where are the old people going to spend their stimulus checks?
Really, though, this is amazingly stupid. I probably wouldn't buy kid's clothes used (I grew up poor and thus have a special aversion to hand-me-downs), but I really resent not being able to buy used children't books. (Plus, I like the way old books smell.)
ahw at May 8, 2009 7:19 AM
We're having a community wide sale this weekend. I plan on going around and buying all the childrens books I can find while my husband mans our table. I'm going to box them up and store them from my grandkids or great grandkids.
All the toys we're selling where made here in the U.S. and are plastic. Our daughters wood toys and handmade toys mean too much to sell. The clothes we're selling were also made here. (We take pains not to buy from China.) So I think we'll be Ok. *At least I hope we'll be ok*
- I thought they passed an amendment to the law allowing for resale of goods because it was going to effect thrift stores and charities? Of course I may be wrong.
Truth at May 8, 2009 7:33 AM
"...Plus, I like the way old books smell...."
Ahhh, yes! The characteristically robust odor of Lead & Arsenic compounds, mixed with just a hint of fragrant dioxin and PCB's.
Just kidding! But, seriously, if it's an old Chemistry Lab manual and it smells like either garlic or dead fish, then you might want to avoid it ;-)
john w. at May 8, 2009 8:14 AM
It is another example of "What about the children" thinking. I was working in my dad's machinist shop at 10 and managed to live to tell the tale. I doubt "Goodnight moon" will kill any little kids off. Lawmakers need to get a grip. Let's get a list of the idiots that voted for this thing and start sending them e-mails about the difference between being effective and being busy.
Julie
Julie at May 8, 2009 9:16 AM
I think you would be hard pressed to find an attorney to sue a second hand seller (which makes me wonder if sellers on Craigs List are subject to this too). They go after deep pockets. Product defect litigation focuses on retailers, manufacturers and distributors that have product defect liability insurance for these types of claims. The fine is disturbing though.
I feel so much safer now that I know that Grandma Moses down the street can be ripped off her lawn chair and frog-marched down her driveway to be handed a $100,000 fine from some pencil neck in the government for selling glass ashtrays and plastic cups.
Feebie at May 8, 2009 9:37 AM
You may not think Grandma has deep pockets but the Salvation Army and other big thrift stores like Value Village and other big charities that run shops. That is the shame those big charity groups that help so many will get sued and lose money either in judgments and/or in paying lawyer fees. That money which could help poor people instead will go for some lawyers BMW or if bigger a jet.
People also tend forget that other companies can be sued in tandem or even or suspicion. Check out companies that have used Asbestos or even silicon in making one product that is deemed safe and only a few times, yet they will still get sued.
http://tinyurl.com/d395u2
So if Grandma has a son that has a big company that a lawyer can link too. She too can loose money.
John Paulson at May 8, 2009 10:10 AM
"People also tend forget that other companies can be sued in tandem or even or suspicion. "
What makes you think I forgot this? For one lousy piece of a product lawyers will go up the entire supply chain to find anyone who ever touched it...(WITH INSURANCE). I didnt forget anything.
Look, 501 c 3's purchase insurance for these types of liabilities. I'm not saying their premiums won't increase, but they have managed their risk to assume for these suits with Insurance.
You can't squeeze blood from a turnip. No attorney is going after grandma with a products defect lawsuit on a yard sale. And her son? There assets are separate (unless of course he owned the house that the property was sold on). But even then, its a stretch. Lawyers follow the money...and that is Insurance.
The only way there would be potentially insurance is through a homeowners/renters policy...butI really dont think they cover products defect.
Basically, it's unlikely.
Feebie at May 8, 2009 10:46 AM
True Freebie! But it sad how the whole legal system a times can just so mess up things.
John Paulson at May 8, 2009 11:15 AM
how are they going to prove it was in your possession or you sold it to them, do you give receipts at a grages sale? On the other hand, don't forget to claim those proceedes on your taxes, cuz thems' capital gains...
SwissArmyD at May 8, 2009 12:03 PM
"Lawmakers need to get a grip."
You honestly think they're merely misguided? Why do they pass these things? Hmm, maybe:
(a) Voters, by and large, are clamoring for them ... most people are probably happy to blindly trust the government always has their best interest at heart and are just 'protecting the children' ... people don't care and would rather not even know the truth, because knowledge would give them a sense of responsibility and conscience they'd rather just avoid through willful ignorance of problems
(b) Bureaucrats like to keep dishing themselves up more and more taxpayer money to keep themselves employed
(c) Big business has lobbied for laws like this --- putting smaller toy resellers out of business is *exactly* what major retailers/chains would want; they have the size and infrastructure to handle compliance, but it creates high barriers of entry to many smaller competitors
David at May 8, 2009 1:09 PM
I wonder if you could get around the law by posting a sign.
If so, one could make good money making and selling these signs.
A modest suggestion: included in the sign should be the names of any local senators and representatives who voted for CPSIA. To find out if your senator or representative voted for it, answer these two questions:
1) Did they enter Congress after 2008?
2) Is their name Ron Paul?
If the answer to either question is "yes" your senator or representative did not vote for CPSIA.
Pseudonym at May 8, 2009 2:29 PM
SwissArmyD:
It's only a capital gain, and a taxable event, if you sell it for more than your original purchase price. Normally, that is only the case with collectibles and real estate (for which there is an exclusion for personal residence sales).
Any item sold at a loss is a personal capital loss, which is a non-taxable event.
cpabroker at May 8, 2009 10:47 PM
Leave a comment