May 8, 2009
The Large-Breasted Oppressed
Feeding starving children? Preventing genocide in Darfur? Nope, women in England were too busy protesting a $3 surcharge at retailer Marks & Spencer on bras DD and larger.
And, great news! They won -- meaning they bullied the retailer into cutting their prices -- after 14,000 big boobs, uh, women with big boobs protested on Facebook.
The AP story by Gregory Katz says M&S "apologized for their mistake," which translates to something more like M&S "knew they couldn't win against the boobs."
As a woman who, um, wears larger cup size bras, I understand that bras for large-breasted women require more engineering. I wear the French brand Empreinte, which I've tried to buy on sale in when I've been in France.
Typically, I'll find a bra in a "normal" size with two hooks and less support, and a much more supportive and re-engineered version in larger sizes, with three or four hooks. I'm just glad these bras exist. I'd pay any amount of money for them, and do. And guess what: They last much longer than cheapo bras, as in years and years longer. I have Empreinte bras I bought over 10 years ago that I still wear.
(P.S. Those bras are nowhere near as expensive in France as they are at this link -- I pay under $80 for them, after euro conversion.) Best of all, they come in big boob sizes, but small back size, which is really hard to find, especially in increasingly obese America.
Back to the British boobs, I just love the name, too, of these ninnies' campaign:
"We are just overwhelmed," said Becky Mount, a co-founder of the Busts 4 Justice group that brought retailing icon M&S to its knees with a canny Internet and media-oriented campaign. "We've won, and we never thought it would happen so quickly."The group, which grew exponentially in the last few days, had vowed to challenge Rose and other M&S executives at the company's annual meeting this summer. Mount said this threat, and growing media support for their crusade, made the company's leaders realize they were losing the public relations battle.
"They didn't want a lot of big-breasted women storming their meeting," said Mount, 19. "I think they realized they were dealing with a much bigger force than they thought originally, and that we weren't going to go away."
She said the group's members would be happy to shop at M&S now that the surcharge has been dropped.
The new policy brings M&S into line with other major retailers in Britain, who decline to pass the higher cost of designing and manufacturing large-size bras on to the consumer.
Guess what -- they are passing them on to the consumer, or will, by making women with smaller boobs, who need less engineering, pay the price of the bullies' bras.
Becky, you're an ass.
And as for their argument that clothing for fatter people doesn't cost more, clothing for fatter people doesn't need reinforcing like bras for larger-breasted women do. Moreover, it would probably be confusing and difficult for retailers if all the different clothing sizes were different prices. Bras don't come in so, so many styles. To charge a little more for bras that cost more to make makes sense.
What a bunch of whiners. And they don't exactly do wonders for the notion that us girls with large hooters are dimmer than the girls with a mouthful or two.
If you don't want to pay the extra couple of pounds, let the twins swing loose in protest. In a few decades, your big worry will be the price of a trough of Vaseline, as your boobs will be rubbing the tops of your shoes.
thanks, Jay J. Hector!
Comments
And as for their argument that clothing for fatter people doesn't cost more,
What? Sure it does. Catalogs will have one price listed for maybe small - xLarge, and the sizes above that will cost another $10 or so....
Maybe it's not obvious when you're comparing a size 6 to a size 12, but compare the cost of that size 12 to a 24 and you will see a higher price for the bigger clothes.
Posted by: jen at May 8, 2009 7:02 AM
This all stems from that group The people for the ethical treatment of fat asses.
What I don't understand is why just not shop somewhere else? Everyone else sells the bras at the same bras regardless of size. Just don't shop at M&S.
Posted by: vlad at May 8, 2009 7:19 AM
Wal-Mart and K-Mart have been doing $2-$3 for larger sizes of regular clothing for years.
Even if I drop all extra weight, I'm still in a minimum of XL for shirts.
Now if the bras were normally $6 then I could see the $3 complaint. But $3 dollars on a $15+ bra -- quicherbichin.
Posted by: Jim P. at May 8, 2009 7:49 AM
"They didn't want a lot of big-breasted women storming their meeting," said Mount, 19. "I think they realized they were dealing with a much bigger force than they thought originally, and that we weren't going to go away."
For some reason, that quote struck me as very funny. Not sure why...
Posted by: old rpm daddy at May 8, 2009 8:15 AM
I'm shaking my head here in amusement. They are paying how much now in England for taxes and they spin out for an extra couple bucks for larger bras? Displaced anger?
Amy, thanks for the tip on the bra maker, got to check that out! ;)
Posted by: Feebie at May 8, 2009 8:51 AM
You're welcome, Feeble. Google around to get a good price.
Posted by: Amy Alkon 
at May 8, 2009 9:07 AM
I am an extremely buoyant woman myself. I would much rather pay the extra cost than have to deal with bras that are just bigger versions of the smaller sizes. Do people really think that a business runs for the charity and well being of its customers? Sorry people, the purpose of business is to MAKE MONEY!!! I forsee that rather than the cost being passed on to smaller breasted women, many places will just quit selling larger bras. They will end up being less profitable, so why bother. Nothing like shooting yourself in the boob, huh ladies?
Posted by: Julie at May 8, 2009 9:22 AM
Love the word "buoyant"! I picture big breasts as buoys...which wouldn't be a bad idea, come to think of it.
Bras that are just sized up instead of reengineered don't have enough space under the arm, giving you that muffintop thing, but as boob hangover instead of stomach hangover. Victoria's Secret bras, for any woman with large real breasts, are just silly. Plus, I've found that American bras wear out rather rapidly. Really, there isn't an Empreinte bra I've ever bought that I've tossed out. Just never wash them in the washing machine. Believe me, at the prices they charge, it's like throwing a child in.
Posted by: Amy Alkon
at May 8, 2009 9:29 AM
>>What I don't understand is why just not shop somewhere else?
I agree, vlad.
However, context matters a bit. M & S is the main street doyenne of female underwear in the UK - the chain has affectionate 'national treasure' status for its everywoman high quality knickers and bras.
If this storm in a D-cup was about, say, Rigby & Peller (famously, the snooty bra shop favored by the Queen), no one would give a flying fart.
Posted by: Jody Tresidder at May 8, 2009 9:41 AM
there isn't an Empreinte bra I've ever bought that I've tossed out.
I am going to check them out. I am currently in the market for a new 'bra set'...all of my good bras died at once! You think the government will give me a bra bailout? (sorry, I couldn't resist that one.
-Julie
Posted by: Julie at May 8, 2009 9:45 AM
If not Julie I'm sure any guy here would be willing to support you in your time of knead
Posted by: lujlp at May 8, 2009 10:12 AM
If not Julie I'm sure any guy here would be willing to support you in your time of knead
ROFLOL! You actually made me laugh out loud in my cube farm at work. Luckily it is lunch time on Friday. Thank you for the offer, but my husband has volunteered for the 'support' duty for the foreseeable future. ;-)
Posted by: Julie at May 8, 2009 10:32 AM
...that muffintop thing...
So that's what it's called! I always thought it was caused by a too-small size.
I hadn't thought about it before (no great surprise, there), but I guess bra design would require quite a bit of engineering, trying to get to the right balance of size, support, comfort, weight, cost, etc.
Julie, regarding your reply to Lujlp -- Hubby's not going to follow you around the office all day, right? 'Cause that could get awkward.
Posted by: old rpm daddy at May 8, 2009 10:43 AM
Julie, regarding your reply to Lujlp -- Hubby's not going to follow you around the office all day, right? 'Cause that could get awkward.
hehe, nope, that is what duct tape is for! ;-)
Posted by: Julie at May 8, 2009 10:50 AM
A friend of mine was married last year to a lovely man from England and I remember talking about this with his step mother and sister at the bachelorette party. So, easy on the idiot talk...those may be my friend's inlaws! LOL!
You know, I almost always agree with you....even if I thought I didn't at first. You're damn convincing. BUT, as a 34D, I'm not going to lie and pretend that the extra couple of dollars doesn't bug me. It pisses me off more with bathing suit tops, though. Since I need a large size top and a small bottom, can't we split the difference? That said, I've also been throwing money away at Victoria's Secret. Their bras really are just slightly bigger...and when you're charging the kind of money they do for thongs that can't cost more that $0.10 in material, do you really need that extra $3 from me? The only reason I even go there is that it's the only place I can find a bra my size that will support me (if only for a few months) and doesn't look like something my grandmother would wear.
Thanks for the tip on those French bras. I'll be chackig that out. You hear that, Victoria's Secret?!
Posted by: Kim at May 8, 2009 11:04 AM
I wonder if they will apply this logic to condoms... ;)
Posted by: Toubrouk at May 8, 2009 11:16 AM
For a moment there I was wondering if people would simply assumed I misspelled need
Also Amy the Phx New Times hasnt yet corrected you column - I'd send an email, but I cant get into my account
Posted by: lujlp at May 8, 2009 11:21 AM
I wonder if they will apply this logic to condoms... Toubrouk
I doubt it, lager condoms dont need support structures, all the need is a larger didlo to dip into the latex pool.
And this post is another example of why Amy site get blocked by braindead net nannies as "adult"
Posted by: lujlp at May 8, 2009 11:26 AM
Since it's Bra-Chat today ...
Does anyone have problems with the shoulder straps falling down? What causes that?
I don't slouch.
I switched to front close, & while that solved the problem short term, it really limits the ones I can purchase.
~~~
Use a Coupon!
An Extra 10% Off
Code: straps
Expires May 7
Typical!!
Posted by: MeganNJ at May 8, 2009 11:29 AM
Does anyone have problems with the shoulder straps falling down? What causes that?
I've heard that is caused by the band being too big. If you are already on the tightest row of clasps, you can get bras altered.
-Julie
Posted by: Julie at May 8, 2009 11:39 AM
You know, given I havent had any sleep since MOnday I'm supprised I have misspelled so few words these last couple of days. Or that I noticed them afterwards
Anyone have any home remides for insomnia? Ofcousre I really dont have insomnia, I froze the part of my brain that regulate the circadian rhythm and body temp
But thats what I get for swimming in the rockeis in feburay in a snowstorm
And I dont feel tired which most insomnics do
Ususallly at this point I get knid of manic and bumble around like a jar ina bee.
But I cant take pills, I'm not effected by anthing short of opiate derivivtes
Anyone got any suggestions?
Posted by: lujlp at May 8, 2009 11:41 AM
I don't sleep much either. You can help your circadian rhythms along by sitting outside in the afternoon with no sunglasses on. Benadryl and Melatonin often help as well, but those are pills which aren't likely to help you, although I take them with my fist full of palative treatments each night.
A hot bath about an hour or so before bed can also start the slide as well as exercise in the middle of the afternoon. Sometimes I can get away with a really starchy meal for dinner and that induces a slight reactive hypoglycemic state that makes me sleepy, although that is a pretty dangerous game for me unless I am desperate.
Lavender essential oil also helps with sleep.
Google treatments for fibromyalgia. Most doctors only treat it by improving sleep, so most of those treatments would probably be worth a try and would be low risk for someone with other health concerns.
I AM NOT A DOCTOR, PLEASE USE THE ABOVE ADVICE AT YOUR OWN RISK AND CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR BEFORE TAKING ANY MEDICATION
Sorry, can't be too careful considering that I don't know who else might read this.
I wish you good sleep lujlp.
Posted by: Julie at May 8, 2009 11:59 AM
>>Anyone got any suggestions?
No snark remotely intended, lujlp, but try keeping away from your monitor screen.
That was the one bit of "home remedy" advice that stuck in my brain after hearing a lay audeince talk 2 years ago by Charles A. Czeisler [Baldino Professor of Sleep Medicine, Harvard Medical School Senior Physician, Division of Sleep Medicine, Department of Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital Affiliated Faculty, Department of Neurobiology, Harvard Medical School].
His talk was about circadian rhythms - and I see you reckon yours are wonky anyway, so it might not apply.
But Czeisler stressed to the max that the sleep-deprived should avoid trying to relax by net surfing etc - because the screen light repeatedly tells the brain to stay alert for yet another mini-cycle of wakefulness.
Posted by: Jody Tresidder at May 8, 2009 12:07 PM
Lujlp,
I feel your pain. I have insomnia at least twice a month.
I've found that lavender helps. The real stuff! Not that crap they sell in your local box store. (I buy a bottle of essential oil from my local head shop.) A few drops in a hot bath, on the pillow, and on my temples helps put me out.
Failing that, masturbation works. It helps relax your mind and your muscles.
If you don't want to go that route, an OTC sleep aid can help or have your Dr. prescribe something.
I will warn you- if you stay awake through something prescribed (Ambien in my case), the side effects are beyond weird.
Good luck.
Now on to bras. I am a larger size and have a hell of a time finding one that fits correctly and is comfortable. I wouldn't mind paying the extra money for one either. Three bucks isn't that much to pay for comfort.
Most of the time, I'll wear a sports bra. It's comfy and doesn't hurt my back and shoulders like a reg. bra does. The straps don't fall down either.
They don't look sexy tho. :(
Posted by: Truth at May 8, 2009 12:09 PM
Lujlp,
And this post is another example of why Amy site get blocked by braindead net nannies as "adult"
The only reason why the whole bra story is in the press is because it is related to breasts. For the last few weeks, the only thing in the news is related to the economic gloom, the glamour of the spend-fast president Obama and how we will all die from the swine flu. The only way that insignificant piece of news found it's way of the forefront of the newsreel was due to (big) breasts.
So the "adult" card has already been discarded as far as I am concerned.
Posted by: Toubrouk at May 8, 2009 12:35 PM
This is the same issue as the airlines charging widefolk for two seats, right?
Right!
Posted by: Crid [cridcridatgmail] at May 8, 2009 12:41 PM
Eh, as a 5'10" woman with a 37" inseam, I pay extra for pants, skirts, and shirts in "tall" sizes, most of which must be ordered on line because apparently it's too much trouble to stock them in the stores. I do live in a rural area which means the nearest "tall girl" store is 300 miles north, although for jeans, gotta love the ranch supply stores and their x-tra longs at no extra charge. At least I can save the dif with my little b-cup bustenhalters!
Posted by: Nanc in Ashland at May 8, 2009 12:43 PM
I'm reading all these posts with a big fat grin on my face (especially, Amy's spelling of my name as "feeble") – this thread is fun, and highly educational lol! But Luj just took the cake - swimming in the Rockies! That just struck me funny.
Sounds like a trip to the doc would be the best thing.
If you don’t want meds (I cant do meds either unless absolutely necessary, they make me wonky) , some herbal alternatives I use are Valerian Root (what Valium is made from), Melatonin and magnesium are good too. Chamomille tea, or water infused (boil it good) with ginger root and honey. These work for me but usually not for people who are use to the immediate affects of sleep medications. Since I can’t take those, these work great. Everyone is different.
Nice hot bath/shower and stretches before bed are good.
Best of luck with that and thanks for the laugh!
Posted by: Feebie at May 8, 2009 12:43 PM
"Failing that, masturbation works. It helps relax your mind and your muscles."
HA! So true!!!
Posted by: Feebie at May 8, 2009 12:45 PM
This is the same issue as the airlines charging widefolk for two seats, right? Right!
If somebody's going to spill over into part of mine, I want them to rent it from me!
Posted by: Amy Alkon
at May 8, 2009 1:01 PM
This is the same issue as the airlines charging widefolk for two seats, right?Right!
It is now illegal to double-charge a King-Sized flyer in Canada. Canadian air companies can't discriminate on weight and size. Welcome to the land of the careless and the nanny state.
Posted by: Toubrouk at May 8, 2009 1:06 PM
Clothing for fat people does cost more most places.It takes more fabric, why shouldn't it? Just like fat asses take more airplane space and should have to pay for that too.
I don't even need a bra, I wear them for nipple coverage. if I were french I'd use band-aids in protest.
I did the rockies swimming thing in Jan once. My skin burned for hours!
Posted by: momof3 at May 8, 2009 1:16 PM
Last night BBC America ran a one-hour documentary "My Big Breasts and Me" covering three women in England and Scotland and their problems caused by having large breasts. The docu covered their search for a proper bra among other items. I would have recorded it but I had already setup my recorder for what was playing on Turner Classic Movies at the same time, "Requiem for a Heavyweight."
Posted by: Jay J. Hector at May 8, 2009 1:18 PM
My problem is it really isnt insomnia as I am just NOT tired, until an hour or two before I crash, and by that time I have a massive headache and everything is tinged purple.
As for the swimming, our high school boiler had broken down so the whole team was swimmingout doors all winter long - no one got so much as a head cold.
We had a skills clinic at a pool up it a town in the rockies, but they started swimming lesson a week early. We figured lets use their outdoor pool because on moe=re day couldnt hurt. The ppol we had been using all winter got upto 55 degrees with the heater on max, this pool was heaated to 36 degrees(just enough to keep the pipes from freezing, then a snow storm rolled off the peaks.
I was 15, 6'+ and 119lbs, by the time I noticed I was cold and got out of the water I was literally purple head to toe- people called me Barney for 6 months, and my body temp has been a flat 96degrees ever since
Posted by: lujlp at May 8, 2009 1:30 PM
lujip -
was this for school?! who let you swim in water that was 36 degrees!? wtf?! I am sorry for laughing earlier, you really should see a doctor.
cayenne pepper increases body heat (and has many other wonderful benefits). I use it daily in cooking.
But seriously, you should see a doctor if your body can't regulate temperature by itself - something doesnt sound right.
Posted by: Feebie at May 8, 2009 1:46 PM
But seriously, you should see a doctor if your body can't regulate temperature by itself - something doesnt sound right.
I have similar problems, with no known real cause. I am the only person walking around texas with a jacket on today. It is in the 90s. Doctors don't knwo what to do with it. Messed up, huh?
-Julie
Posted by: Julie at May 8, 2009 1:56 PM
Slim people lose body heat rapidly as they don't have a layer of lard/tallow to keep the heat in their body. I'm 5'11" and weigh 130 pounds (exactly the same weight I was in high school 40+ years ago) and I have to wear down jackets if it's under 70 degrees out. On the other hand when it's 100+ degrees I don't even sweat as my body cools perfectly at that temp, unlike the fatsos that sweat at any temp above freezing.
Posted by: Jay J. Hector at May 8, 2009 2:17 PM
The doctor told me that's why I'm always cold (worried it was some thyroid thing -- nope). I got a cropped down jacket from the Gap for $19 on eBay. Wear it over my clothes in weather when other people are wearing shirtsleeves!
Posted by: Amy Alkon
at May 8, 2009 2:33 PM
Yes, I am just over 5' and 110 lbs. Im cold all the time - but i've always been that way.
he went swimming and froze his cabeza and hasnt had temp. regulation since (I don't know how long ago that happened... ).
Posted by: Feebie at May 8, 2009 2:36 PM
Last night BBC America ran a one-hour documentary "My Big Breasts and Me" covering three women in England and Scotland and their problems caused by having large breasts. The docu covered their search for a proper bra among other items.
I could have saved them the trouble. Two places: Le Bon Marché, rue de Sevres, Sevre/Babylone stop of the Métro, left bank of Paris. The little cute woman who looks a bit like a mouse will help you. She's great. They have a phone in the dressing room, but no need to speak French. Just say Empreinte, and she will come (because she is the Empreinte lady).
Also, Galeries Lafayette, the one on Boulevard Haussman, not the one in Montparnasse at the Tour Montparnasse. There are a few different women who work there, but they are very helpful. Try to find out when they have a one-hour sale, which they do from time to time. They'll tell you if you ask. "Sale" is "solde." Temporary is probably "temporaire," but I'm too tired to look it up to make sure. Sometimes I guess at words that are "faux amis," false friends, words that don't work the same in French as they do in English. (One of my favorites is "je suis chaude" -- which I wouldn't say, but I think it basically means you're horny, not that you are feeling too much heat. They say, "J'ai chaud," I have heat, to indicate that, for example, the weather is getting to you.
There's also a big boob bra shop near the Duroc Metro stop...have bought some in there, but they're a bit nasty. And I bought some variation on Empreinte there. They also have bathing suits, I think. This store is just down from Le Bon Marché, if you're walking away from the Seine. Between Vaneau and Duroc stops.
Sniff, sniff...I miss Paris! I guess where to buy bras advice is the next best thing to being there right now!
Posted by: Amy Alkon
at May 8, 2009 2:41 PM
I had a spot of insomnia a few months ago that started because of some medication and subsequent irregular caffeine intake. Now that I've thoroughly decaffeinated myself, I'm super susceptible to it (which is great when I want to be productive and lousy when I want to sleep.) A little melatonin at bedtime helps on those days.
The sleep benefits I've experienced since quitting regular caffeine are wonderful. I never believed the stories, but I actually do wake up feeling refreshed an hour earlier than I used to.
Posted by: Pseudonym at May 8, 2009 2:46 PM
Actually, 98.6 is just a median normal temp. 96 can be normal, so can 101. I am on the higher end normally. If it's a recent thing I might worry, but lifelong is just you.
tengo mucho calor.
Posted by: momof3 at May 8, 2009 2:54 PM
Personally I've had phenomenal luck getting bras at department stores by getting sized every time I go in. The lady at my Kohl's knows which brand run large, which run small, and makes sure they fit without my cups runnething over.
A properly fitted band should feel *tight* by the way. I was wearing a 36DD but turns out my proper size is a 34E.
As for sleeping, I will happily pop an Advil PM if it means a good night's sleep over another sleepless night.
Posted by: Elle at May 8, 2009 4:01 PM
Darn. Signed on to make an observation but Crid beat me to it (comparing this question to airline seats)
As to whether or not to charge more for a larger garment: Can you say entitlement mentality as usual? They expect the manufacturer to eat the difference? Go to JoAnn's fabrics, tell them you want enough fabric to make a dress, and they'll charge you by the yard for the fabric, your dress size be damned. What a load of crap! If this pathetic argument is the case, I want a damned DISCOUNT for my 1/2 A cup bra! I use LESS fabric than 95% of the customer base. No support technology required, either.
Signed,
Spokeswoman and Poster Child for the IBTC
Posted by: Juliana at May 8, 2009 6:48 PM
Well, I just woke up, but I dont remeber falling asleep, or typeing tho slast few messages,
The swimming thing as our idea, as I said we had been swimming outside all winter anyway with no adverse effects, we didnt expect the pool at Cottonwood Heights to be that cold, and no one expected it to snow.
That was back in '95, And I saw a neurologist, he said the cold consticted my hypothalmus dropping my body temp to the low end of the range.
But I never suffer from jet lag so thats a plus, Living in AZ I just have to drink a gallon or two of water a day onve the temp is consistanly over 85 degrees
Posted by: lujlp at May 8, 2009 9:57 PM
To turn your large breasted sighs of woe into large breasted squeals of delight:
www.bravissimo.com
www.figleaves.com
The English should be happy that their department stores carry large sizes at all! The ones in the states do not. (Sizes involving variations on the letter "D" don't count).
I love boobs.
Posted by: NicoleK at May 9, 2009 2:33 PM
I love boobs.
Posted by: NicoleK
Me too!!!
Posted by: lujlp at May 9, 2009 5:08 PM
Hi there guys, every human situations have their inconveniences. We feel those of the here and now but neither see or feel those of the future
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