Girls Who Know Better Than To Wear Old Sweatpants
Two girls outside Starbucks on Sunday. This one was amazed that I wanted to take her picture, as she'd just come from yoga. I told her more women should look like they'd "just come from yoga."
I think this one was from someplace like Brazil.
Too many American women complain to me that they can't get boyfriends, yet can't imagine that their running around in big ugly pants and big ugly shoes, with no attention to their hair or face would have anything to do with it. A more European approach that's mostly true (and partly in the service of selling beauty products): "There are no ugly women, only lazy ones." -- Helena Rubenstein.
Unfair; they're young beauties. Now, I like young beauties — Just sayin'.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 1:25 AM
That is why so many many western guys who come to Korea go "Yellow crazy" when they see the Korean girls around here. Half the time the girls go around dressed up. The other times they are dressed down yet still usually put the western girls to shame. Actually I think I have never seen sweatpants on girl here in Korea.
Of course the good looking ones who dress up are usually youngish 20 to 35. Once they hit the Adjuma (older korean lady stage) they it starts getting a little bit nasty.
John Paulson at May 26, 2009 2:00 AM
> it starts getting a little bit nasty.
See? See? It's about youth...
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 2:27 AM
They could both be models for your pink Rambler! Along with you of course ;)
John Tagliaferro at May 26, 2009 3:50 AM
It's not just girls across the seas who put many American women to shame, it's also our American sisters! What a wake-up call to move to New Orleans and find that the black girls attending the gas station cash registers looked better than I ever had. Always beautifully coiffed, nails done, fabulous clothes, and that was just for their work day. At the gas station. I woke up.
Today I'll sit at Starbucks and do my freelance design work in a red micro-suede pencil skirt, nicely fitted gray scoop-neck sweater (it's a bit chilly today here) and my favorite black pumps.
Mary Q. Contrary at May 26, 2009 4:57 AM
Seeing Lady #1 I thought, wow, what a cutie!
For Lady #2 I thought, man, that's almost too much, but she is working it and I bet men love it... I wish I had her confidence, but maybe it comes with her maturity!
This was before I read the comments. My point being, I did not perceive the second lady as youthful, just hot and confident! So it's not necessarily about youth. I wonder how old she is? Flaunting what she has probably makes her look younger anyway. Hehe, hopefully she's not actually younger than I think she is, but I doubt it!
Honestly, how many people would guess Amy's age correctly from her pictures??
Debra at May 26, 2009 5:01 AM
I think #2 looks silly-trying to be young. Like most of the hispanic women around here. I would never wear either outfit, and that doesn't mean I look like a schlump.
But yeah, getting hugely fat and wearing tents with o attempt at appearance doesn't help anyone.
momof4 at May 26, 2009 5:19 AM
I’m drooling on my keyboard.
Roger at May 26, 2009 5:24 AM
Men drool over women who look silly?
Debra at May 26, 2009 5:30 AM
Girl #1 would be cute even if she were wearing a refrigerator box.
But does she really do yoga in a short skirt?!?
Is that cosher? I mean aren't you all over the floor with your bottom in the air and such?
I've considered taking-up yoga specifically to hang around with cute girls. But yoga strikes me as a neutering exercise, like aerobics, where you're demasculinized by the very act of participating. Though of course women will say OH NO sensitive yoga men are EVEN MORE masculine, but I don't buy it.
Jack at May 26, 2009 5:48 AM
Jack, my very macho step-brother does "power yoga," which he says keeps his musles limber enough to continue to do construction work, surfing and the 100-mile bike rides he still enjoys in his 50's.
deja pseu at May 26, 2009 5:57 AM
That's not a yoga outfit on Girl #1. That's a cardio suit.
Not for her. It just raises the heart rate of the dudes looking at her.
old rpm daddy at May 26, 2009 5:58 AM
>>But does she really do yoga in a short skirt?!? Is that cosher? I mean aren't you all over the floor with your bottom in the air and such?
Yup to the bum-in-the-air thing generally making short skirts (without leggings) less than ideal for yoga, Jack.
There's also the farting issue.
(You don't want to be stuck behind a newbie who has been munching high fiber food before going for the Down Dog pose!).
Jody Tresidder at May 26, 2009 6:33 AM
I agree that the first one is cute, but I think the second woman is a little goofy looking. I'm sure she attracts men... but maybe not the right kind, and not for the right purpose.
But the point is well taken, yes, wear something pretty.
NicoleK at May 26, 2009 6:46 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/05/26/girls_who_know.html#comment-1650266">comment from Jody TresidderThere's also the farting issue
Not if you don't eat carbs!
Amy Alkon at May 26, 2009 6:53 AM
While dressing femininely helps, and American women can definitely use help in that department, the biggest problem with American women is attitude.
Feminists have convinced American women that they are some how an opressed group of people and subconsciously it is all mens fault.
While American women have more opportunities than any other, thanks to freedom and technology provided almost exclusively by men, they have no appreciation for men.
Ninety percent of American women are not worth dating because they have an entitlement mentality and lack of appreciation for men.
More and more American men are dating foreign women who appreciate American men. American women are not in high demand by foreign men because they are considered too high maintenance for them.
Read nomarraige.com and scroll down and hit the home page.Numerous articles tell you everything that is wrong with 90% of American women and why men are avoiding marraige with American women and opting for foreign women.
David M. at May 26, 2009 6:56 AM
Not if you don't eat carbs!
Exactly, Amy.
(And if you insist on doing so - you should only do yoga in a diving suit to spare everyone else; allure be damned!)
Jody Tresidder at May 26, 2009 7:02 AM
In the few times I've tried yoga, I'm willing to bet the people around me were more worried about my clumsy ass falling on top of them than farting.
Looking attractive is also about being realistic about your body type. I've seen lots of "confident" women wearing dresses like No. 1 who should never, ever do that.
MonicaP at May 26, 2009 7:15 AM
No, guys, she didn't do yoga in that, she changed after her class. Tiered-skirt lady probably is latin... there's a Brazilian restaurant near our house, and when the Brazilian ladies come out to drink caprihnias and pisco sours, that's pretty much how they dress... and always in super-high heels.
My husband and his friends really enjoyed Buenos Aires, because the ladies there wear sundresses or little tank tops, and have long hair that they wear loose, and hardly ever wear bras in the summer. Oh, and nobody is fat.
ahw at May 26, 2009 7:27 AM
I do NOT understand what some of the commenters have against woman #2. Old? How the heck old do you think she is, and why is that too old to dress that way? She's got good legs, and from her stride, is obviously confident in those shoes. I'm more partial to a woman having a little support in the chest area, but I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with this woman and the way she's dressed.
WayneB at May 26, 2009 7:37 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/05/26/girls_who_know.html#comment-1650275">comment from WayneBI think she looks totally hot, WayneB. So...those of you who griped about her...what's the problem?
Amy Alkon at May 26, 2009 7:38 AM
Crid: No, it's NOT about youth. It's about putting forth an effort to look attractive, and not pulling your hair back in a greasy ponytail, yanking on some sweatpants, and going out. Any woman can do it. Most American women just don't care if they're attractive to men. Men should be attracted to their personality and intellect. If they're not attractive at 20 pounds overweight, in a mumu, with zero presentation effort, it's OUR fault.
Debra - #2 does not look silly, she looks hot.
Bill
Bill McNutt at May 26, 2009 7:54 AM
I think #2 looks fine, she has a great figure, and obviously the guys like what she's wearing. I just wouldn't wear it because it seems very Forever 21-ish. Men don't care about that, though.
#1 looks like she wakes up that cute.
ahw at May 26, 2009 8:03 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/05/26/girls_who_know.html#comment-1650279">comment from Bill McNuttBill McNutt is right -- "it's NOT about youth. It's about putting forth an effort to look attractive, and not pulling your hair back in a greasy ponytail, yanking on some sweatpants, and going out."
I'm in a hurry sometimes, too, and I have "uniforms" I throw on so I look pretty and pulled together.
You can have the most beautiful personality in the world, and if you look and dress like you just finished cleaning out the garage, no guy is likely to find out.
Amy Alkon at May 26, 2009 8:04 AM
I have super dry eyes (nothing works, I've been to the top cornea specialist at Mass Eye & Ear). Contacts are awful. But on the rare occasion I can put them in for more than an hour without pain I feel so much more confident and youthful. I'm 24 and being stuck in glasses 24/7 makes me feel like a schlumpy grandma. Eye make up and only do so much b/c glasses really hide your eyes.
So when I do manage to do the contacts-thing my persona changes. I smile more. I put more effort into my makeup. I can kiss D w/o having glasses squished against my face. Even if I don't look better I feel better - that makes a huge difference.
It makes sense that, if you put forth the effort into your outfit/hair/whatever, you'll exude a sexy confidence that age can't destroy. Also, dab a little perfume behind your ears.
Gretchen at May 26, 2009 8:08 AM
Obviously, #1 is drop-dead gorgeous and would leave any guy panting. (I'm in my mid-sixties, by the way ... don't know if that's relevant.)
I think the problem with #2 is her face: She appears to have a permanent scowl or frown. Of course that could just be a quirk of the lighting or the camera angle or that awning-thingie in the back ground. But to me -- just going by this one picture -- her facial expression radiates, or at least hints at, hostility.
lurker-999 at May 26, 2009 8:15 AM
vlad at May 26, 2009 8:46 AM
> It's about putting forth an effort
> to look attractive, and not
> pulling your hair back in a
> greasy ponytail, yanking on some
> sweatpants, and going out.
Suuuuuuuurre... Amy just happened to pick women at the peak of health & fertility, of the shape popular in Hollywood and magazines, substantially undressed....
Y'know, when people say things like this, it's like they're whistling in the dark, whether or not they have any beauty like that in their own lives. They want to pretend attraction is about some very willful choice that reflects their own very developed taste; and that it's a matter substantially under our control, and never a source of discomfort.
But these things aren't true. You're trying too hard to pretend these aren't animal forces. And you can bring much more beauty into your life by opening your mind about what nature provides to us than by demanding people wear just the right haircuts and skirts.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 9:13 AM
I think John Paulson told you half the story.
I'm way past my expiration date, but Japanese girls were (in my day) uniformly nice. Not just nice looking, and well dressed, but well mannered.
Amy's point stands, but attitudes also have a lot to do with attractiveness. I'd pass on a surly Angelina Jolie or whomever the hot starlet du jour is today.
MarkD at May 26, 2009 9:17 AM
Amy! Down with food poisoning this weekend, will register tonight after work and send you the ISBN number in a list. Thanks!!
Lindsey at May 26, 2009 9:22 AM
Looking at the two pictures, I am struck by how the first gal could actually be in sweatpants but still be hot, hot, hot. The second gal, the photo does not really allow for such gauging, so who can say?
A friend of mine was on a college campus about ten years ago during summer. He said to me, "I forgot how gals that age could just roll out of bed, pull on sweats, tie their hair back, and stroll in flip-flops to class but still be so totally, unbearably hot. Women in their 30s just cannot achieve that incandescent hotness, at least not without proper clothes, make-up, etc."
When I was on a college campus a few months later, his observation rang true. The gals often dressed like slobs--but still looked great. I am not saying they should dress that way, but their pulchritude is better than any clothes or make-up could ever be.
An edit: "Too many American women complain to me that they can't get [the] boyfriends [they want to get],..."
They can get boyfriends, almost any woman can. Men are everywhere and they like to have girlfriends. They likely cannot get that trophy boyfriend that will make their frenemies jealous and their looming class renunion a walk of triumph, however. It is the flip side of the guy who sneers about "fat chicks" and "butterfaces", even though they have not had a date in years.
Spartee at May 26, 2009 9:31 AM
As no one else seemed to notice the moniker change
Congrats momof 4 on the new addition
lujlp at May 26, 2009 9:35 AM
Bill-
I did not think #2 looked silly. You can see in my first comment near the top that I thought she looked hot and pretty damn confident to be pulling that outfit off.
I was responding to Momof4's comment in which she said that the woman looked silly, which was followed immediately by Roger's comment in which he said that he was drooling over the pictures. As in, how could a man drool over a silly-looking woman? She is dressed attractively. Good for her.
Debra at May 26, 2009 9:36 AM
> They likely cannot get that trophy
> boyfriend that will make their
> frenemies jealous and their looming
> class renunion a walk of triumph
Word, word, say it again!
Don't bother, I just did.
> I was responding to Momof4's comment
Thanks for the second comment, I too missed your irony.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 10:11 AM
I wonder what these judgemental men wear or weigh. It seems that most men these days go around in a grungy tee-shirt and a pair of baggy shorts and flip flops with 40 lbs of flab hanging over. Then they whine about the women not being perfectly groomed.
JoJo at May 26, 2009 10:24 AM
It's pointless to compare a super-hot 20-year-old to a super-hot 40-year-old. The younger woman will no doubt win every time. It's better to compare an average-looking woman of any age to that same woman when she puts in a little effort. The cutie in the first picture might look good in a paper bag, but she rocks that outfit.
Do what you can with what you've got. There's someone, somewhere who will think it's sexy enough.
And congrats, momof4.
MonicaP at May 26, 2009 10:26 AM
> Thanks for the second comment
Anytime.
And congratulations indeed to Momof4 on your 4th! Hope the little boy and you and the rest of your family are doing well!
Debra at May 26, 2009 10:37 AM
You haven't thought this through very well, Amy. The more slobby & frumpy other women get, the more hot women stand out from the crowd, and the more they're appreciated, right?
I love cars. I'm also pretty well oblivious to the fact that millions of people drive around in ugly or beat-up, worn-out cars that they don't take care of. That's not my problem, because whenever I see a shiny Mustang go by, my heart beats a little faster, and I'm a little more glad to be alive.
I love women more. So if millions of North American women choose to dress & comport themselves like hags & expect men to be attracted to their personalities, I take no notice. Even up here in small-town Ontario, there are more hot women around than I can shake a stick at. They are a minority overall, but there's still plenty of them, they stand out from the crowd very nicely, and that's all I ask. The others barely register as part of the scenery.
"I think this one was from someplace like Brazil"
Believe it or not, obesity is a serious & rapidly growing problem in Brazil:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1890260,00.html
Yes, the Brazilian obesity rate of 13% is a fraction of the American rate, but Brazil is still a developing country with a fraction of America's per capita income. And the Brazilian rate is rising very rapidly. It's nearly tripled in the past 30 years.
Martin at May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
Heels are torture unless you've got door to door service. Not so good for commuting.
I never show that much skin because I still get catcalls at age 44, and that's not "quality male attention", sorry. I'm not there to please yobboes on the street, and I've never met a boyfriend at a bus stop or a bar.
Agreed about manners being important.
However... I have the same issue with American men. They don't dress up, and many are tubby, and they're the ones who want pretty girls.
vi at May 26, 2009 10:50 AM
I've considered taking-up yoga specifically to hang around with cute girls. But yoga strikes me as a neutering exercise, like aerobics, where you're demasculinized by the very act of participating. Though of course women will say OH NO sensitive yoga men are EVEN MORE masculine, but I don't buy it.
Try YRG. It was created by Diamond Dallas Page to masculinize (sp?) yoga.
http://www.yrgplanet.com/
My husband loves it.
-Julie
Julie at May 26, 2009 10:56 AM
However... I have the same issue with American men. They don't dress up, and many are tubby, and they're the ones who want pretty girls.
Ha, yes! There are times when I'm listening to men talk about "fat chicks they wouldn't hit" and thinking, "When's the last time you brushed your teeth, studly?"
MonicaP at May 26, 2009 10:57 AM
> Then they whine about the women
> not being perfectly groomed.
Nope. Fifty years old, but I've never heard the kind of sloppy guy you describe say (let alone "whine") that a woman wasn't attractive enough. But you're right, men are "judgmental". That's the point! Beauty fulfills our (everyone's) judgment.
> It's pointless to compare a
> super-hot 20-year-old to a
> super-hot 40-year-old.
Exactly. Youth is a big part of beauty. It's pointless to compare a super-hot 20-year-old woman (see pic #1, above) to anyone. Such a creature is –as Carolla once put it– an "animal kingdom celebrity". When she walks into a room, everyone knows who she is: She's the super-hot 20-year-old. That's better than any sitcom role.
The trick is to take the 20yo as a 40yo and put compare her to plainer woman at 40. The plainer one will be more fun in all respects.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 10:58 AM
Amy,
You're preaching to the choir! This is often a favoured topic with my buddies in Seattle. The problem throughout the Pacific Northwest is the same: Most women constantly look like they've just come from the gym ... and not like the woman in that first photo!
Of course, if a man 'dares' to say such a thing publicly then he's lambasted as being superficial. For that, of course, I have the conversation ending retort: "I know the greatest guy ever who I think you might want to date. One thing though, he is 3" shorter than you."
Absolute silence. And then an admission that they don't date men shorter than themselves.
So who's the superficial one?!?
Robert W. (Vancouver) at May 26, 2009 11:00 AM
"Nope. Fifty years old, but I've never heard the kind of sloppy guy you describe say (let alone "whine") that a woman wasn't attractive enough."
Crid, you must not get out much or spend any time on the internet. I've been running into such jerks since I was a teenager. The rule of thumb is that the ugliest men are the most critical and think they deserve a supermodel by virtue of their being.
Also, I think both women look like hookers.
JoJo at May 26, 2009 11:01 AM
It's NOT about age.
There's that whole mystique about chic French women "of a certain age".
It's about being feminine - that's less about trying directly to please men and more about enjoying being a woman... who likes men. Those chic French ladies don't expose much skin - but they are comfortable broadcasting female signifiers.
What's sad is that feminism hasn't done away with consciousness of sex differences - in fact, it's probably heightened them. But it's also turned a frisson of energy into a humorless pall of suspicion and malaise.
Ben-David at May 26, 2009 11:07 AM
Both of these women are beautiful.
I have always thought that pumps are remarkably stupid, however. They lead to arthritis of feet, knees and hips, not to mention bunions and a whole host of other foot problems.
http://bp3.blogger.com/_U-xYg40tZlo/R33tHZEbimI/AAAAAAAAARE/upE8-Zcq3Vw/s1600-h/GR2007050700484.jpg
Looking cute doesn't justify women wearing footwear that they can be reasonably certain will cause damage (nothing is 100%). How attractive will the walker be after the knee and hip replacements?
I do agree, however, that if one wants to attract a person who is primarily visually stimulated, she should look the part. I always make a point of dressing to go out to dinner with my husband. He doesn't expect it, but it sends the clear message that he is still worth the effort after 15 years.
-Julie
Julie at May 26, 2009 11:08 AM
Geeez, every morning when I leave the gym, I go straight home, vacuum and/or clean up the house, like every other day, then shower, and get dressed. Jeans or maybe a skirt and a nice shirt if I'm just hanging at home, or going shopping; or, if I have an interview, I dress for that. I won't even go to the store to pick up milk in my gym clothes! Trust me, it's not a pretty site! o.O
Flynne at May 26, 2009 11:14 AM
I guess I don't really get "quality male attention". Attraction is animal and a catcall isn't a prelude to rape. Do you think a random guy (even the one you meet at your book club) looks at you wondering if you're contemplating the meaning of life? Of course not. His first thought is whether he'd do you or not. Introductions come later. I think that whatever skin your comfortable showing (without giving it ALL away when you bend over) and can pull off at any age is just fine! At 41 I'm dreading the day the catcalls are replaced by retching noises! Isn't THAT what we're all REALLY worried about?
moreta at May 26, 2009 11:17 AM
Oooops! "site" should be "sight" as in a sorry "sight", not a "site" for sories (bits of fungi on the underside of fern leaves)! And yes, congrats to Momof4! All the best to you and your family!
Flynne at May 26, 2009 11:17 AM
> There's that whole mystique about
> chic French women "of a certain age".
That mystique only applies to guys who are into mystique. And again, we note that the women depicted are not "of a certain age".
> I think both women look like hookers.
Humor us, Jojo: Post a link to a picture of an attractive young woman who doesn't look like a hooker.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 11:19 AM
Props to moreta
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 11:20 AM
I agree that it's more about attitude and careful presentation that raw looks or age (to a point, of course).
American women have become relatively slovenly. But American men are no prize, either, I'll admit! When I'm in France or Italy I am constantly reminded of how much we Americans do not appreciate "la bella figura" in our public presentation.
What?! I'm not the only dude taking shots at the F-ists? Saves me the trouble ... . ;)
Momof4, congratulations! I trust mother and baby are doing fine. (My wife is a post-partum nurse, and I envy her.)
Jay R at May 26, 2009 11:22 AM
catcall isn't a prelude to rape
Agreed, but their constancy can make going about your day very uncomfortable.
-Julie
Julie at May 26, 2009 11:32 AM
So this stuff is always supposed to be comfortable?
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 11:39 AM
Then you need to learn to be more assertive and tell them to fuck off.
brian at May 26, 2009 11:44 AM
Sobchak!
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 11:48 AM
I think that most women who feel the need to rip on these two women and attractive women in general are just unhappy with themselves or feel threatened. If they can convince themselves that these women are unrealistic or thrashy or whatever, then they can confirm to themselves that wearing sweat pants and having greasy hair is okay. If you're happy with yourself what do you care what other women look like?
Fink-Nottle at May 26, 2009 11:49 AM
Then you need to learn to be more assertive and tell them to fuck off.
That doesn't seem to work either. Any sort of response seems to insight further action. It is easier to just dress more modestly and avoid the bullshit all together.
-J
Julie at May 26, 2009 11:55 AM
"of a certain age"
What age is that?
I'm not familiar w/ the reputation of French women in this regard. But I do agree that they're often better kempt than American women - or almost any other nationality of women for that matter.
Jack at May 26, 2009 11:56 AM
> It is easier to just dress
> more modestly
More sensible, too. Sexual attraction is a lantern, not a flashlight. It shines everywhere
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 11:59 AM
That doesn't seem to work either. Any sort of response seems to insight further action. It is easier to just dress more modestly and avoid the bullshit all together.
Also, who wants to get into verbal altercations with countless strange men just to get a cup of coffee in the morning? I can see certain men telling an attractive woman exactly where they'd like to fuck off. Fortunately, one can dress modestly and still be attractive.
MonicaP at May 26, 2009 12:01 PM
Relevant "motivational poster":
http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=599
And Jojo, they don't look like hookers.
ahw at May 26, 2009 12:02 PM
I stand by what I said. Here in Baltimore, the only women who wear 4 inch heels and miniskirts are the sex workers on the Baltimore Block or Sherri's Show Bar on Pulaski Highway. If I saw either one of those girls on the street I'd assume they were hookers.
BTW, I've been washing my hair daily since I was 13 and never wear sweats in public.
JoJo at May 26, 2009 12:10 PM
Baltimore sounds boring.
snakeman99 at May 26, 2009 12:20 PM
I stand by what I said. Far too many older women shove themselves into too short too tight too low outfits in an attempt to look hot. You can look great without looking like a floozy who's trying too hard. It does seem to be more common in latin americans.
I'm not that far out from being the hot hot hot college girl in sweats, so I'm not being catty on attractive women. I just see no need to dress like that to be so.
Thanks for all the congrats! Little guy is doing great, and hungry, so my boobs and I have to go now.
momof4 at May 26, 2009 12:37 PM
Yeah, well, it's 57 degrees in Baltimore right now... versus 70 in LA, and 94 in Austin. People wear less clothing where it's hot.
Anyway, I wouldn't wear the second outfit either... I don't know if it's the necklace or the belt or both that make it look like she's trying to hard- but she still doesn't look like a hooker.
ahw at May 26, 2009 12:45 PM
"It makes sense that, if you put forth the effort into your outfit/hair/whatever, you'll exude a sexy confidence that age can't destroy."
Yeah, a 60 year old with confidence blows away a tremulous Kate Beckinsale look alike everytime.
Spartee at May 26, 2009 12:55 PM
"she still doesn't look like a hooker."
No, ahw, more like an adverse orthopedic event just waiting to happen. Timber!!!!!!!!
Jay R at May 26, 2009 12:56 PM
You're out of your element, Crid.
brian at May 26, 2009 1:01 PM
Also, who wants to get into verbal altercations with countless strange men just to get a cup of coffee in the morning?
I dress, and nobody fights with me on the way to coffee. They smile, open doors for me, chat a little, and compliment me on my look from time to time.
Oh, and in Los Angeles, you don't usually have a hell of a lot of walking to do. Car to door of Starbucks in heels isn't a huge deal. I wear heels everywhere but the shower. Boots, though, a half-size too big, with thick socks.
Amy Alkon at May 26, 2009 1:02 PM
>>Yeah, a 60 year old with confidence blows away a tremulous Kate Beckinsale look alike everytime.
But only ONE of 'em will blow a kiss back at you, Spartee:)
Jody Tresidder at May 26, 2009 1:05 PM
"Yeah, well, it's 57 degrees in Baltimore right now... "
Tights are a wonderful thing. Pretty sure Manhattanites don't typically use the weather as an excuse for frumpiness.
snakeman99 at May 26, 2009 1:05 PM
And you're out of your mind, Brian.
---
What's most annoying about Jojo's "hookers" comment is how neatly it comports with Islamic-type fuckups.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 1:08 PM
Um. There is something funny about this post. Some hotties mean American women don't dress right?
BTW: As a guy, let me tell you. We have radar. A good-looking women, in a burlap bag, looks good.
It's like money for women. Somehow, they know how much money a guy makes. Something about the shoes, dress, haircut,demeanor, etc. In years when I made lots of money, I exuded sexual magnetisim.
The i-hole at May 26, 2009 1:10 PM
Amy,
Thank you! Both ladies are lovely. The first one bears a *slight* resemblance to the young lady I wrote to you about yesterday. Sort of the same build and some similar facial features. Looked great first thing in the morning too! Unfortunately, the bipolar-ness emerged later in the day :(
Not getting why anybody would not find these women attractive, but taste is unique.
John Tagliaferro at May 26, 2009 1:12 PM
Heels make more sense if you don't have a lot of walking. I walk everywhere and don't have a car. I prefer pretty flat shoes, which you can get if you look around.
I dress, and nobody fights with me on the way to coffee. They smile, open doors for me, chat a little, and compliment me on my look from time to time.
Most men are fine. Some are really crude. I've learned to dress according to how much attention I want to deal with.
MonicaP at May 26, 2009 1:13 PM
The second woman suffers relative to her placement next to the first gal.
Yeah, sure, the carping sort could say the second woman's legs are slightly out of proportion. The calves are too thin relative to the thigh, and they are a bit short relative to her upper body. Hence the attempt with the heels.
Also the skirt seems a bit bulbous, suggesting some junk in the trunk. But no one is perfect, and that gal is plenty attractive compared to most. Still she is not the sinewy sex-incarnate that is the first gal.
The first girl would compel men to not only pirouette as she walked by, but maybe even follow for a block or two, lost in the reverie of what that dress contains.
Spartee at May 26, 2009 1:20 PM
"However... I have the same issue with American men. They don't dress up, and many are tubby, and they're the ones who want pretty girls."
I agree with you, far too many men let themselves go very badly (and then whine that their wives no longer want to sleep with them etc. - duh) - but in their defense, perhaps it wouldn't happen so much if today's women wouldn't keep repeating the lie so much that "ooh, it's *personality* that's what counts!" to them. "Gee, I wonder *where* men got the idea that their appearance isn't important to women" (end sarcasm). Women should call men out on letting themselves look like slobs (but hey, that would be like admitting you're "shallow", something that is almost a cultural taboo).
Liking (well-maintained) good looks has been stigmatized as "shallow", but the fact is it's merely *human*. Men at least are honest enough to admit it's a major factor in their attraction toward women. (Yes it's much less of a factor for women, but it definitely isn't *not* a factor, which is the lie put forth boldly and repeatedly all the time ... wish I had a dollar for every time I heard a woman claim looks don't count.)
Crid: There is a lot of truth to "youth is beauty", sure, but that doesn't mean there's *nothing* you can do - looking after yourself and working on your looks will make a *huge* difference, and not just in the aspects you control on a day-to-day basis such as clothing - it's about looking after yourself - if you care for yourself and look after yourself, you will very literally age slower.
#1 = super hot! Don't like #2 though.
DavidJ at May 26, 2009 1:26 PM
The second woman suffers relative to her placement next to the first gal.
Agreed, but speaking for myself, I find different women attractive for different reasons. To me, a little bit o' bottom is just fine, carried right. Also, eyes and smiles are big factors for me. The trouble is, the woman in the second photo was too far away to appreciate completely. For that reason, I'm not sure either candidate is a clear winner.
Also, Momof4, let me be the umpteenth to congratulate you! I'm glad to hear that you and Baby are doing so well.
old rpm daddy at May 26, 2009 1:43 PM
I'm with Crid on this one, the first one (which the majority of men seem to like) has youth on her side. I think in any circumstance the men would be drooling over her because she's young and thin.
But but I'm going to be a little catty. My friends and I would have never noticed her as the "the sinewy sex-incarnate". Or probabbly noticed her at all, or thought of her as a particular beauty. It's because we too have youth on our side.
Ppen at May 26, 2009 2:00 PM
I dig the second one too, it's just that her shoes are too loud. Not the color, the sound. Knowing that there's bangity-bangity noise every time she walks across the room makes her seem high-maintenance. That's the point, isn't it? A subliminal message that "I can't run away from you..."
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 2:08 PM
Seriously, look at her knees compared to the guy behind her... Doesn't her gait seem constrained?
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 2:09 PM
Seriously, look at her knees compared to the guy behind her... Doesn't her gait seem constrained?
Yup, that is the heels for you! They really are hard to walk with, or maybe I am just clumsy!
Julie at May 26, 2009 2:16 PM
Well of course it's constrained. You can't take but little bitty steps in heels like that.
3" is as high as I can go when it comes to heels. Any taller and I'd have to shuffle across the room.
deja pseu at May 26, 2009 2:16 PM
Hee. I have a pair of heels like that. Haven't worn them since that moment of panic when I realized I couldn't go down the stairs.
MonicaP at May 26, 2009 2:22 PM
This site must be very popular in prisons.
I mean, the first girl is cute and all, but she's not the uber super hot hot oh-my-god-I've-got-priepism crazy hot sex goddess that some of you are making her out to be.
She's just a pretty girl in a slinky dress. Though I do find her amused expression very attractive.
And the second woman may be very pretty. You can't see her face, so there's no way to tell.
As for college girls, they're almost a different species. Many men will find any woman that age attractive regardless of whether they're actually pretty. It's their youth that's attractive. And if that's your standard for beauty, you're going to be disappointed with any woman over the age of 25.
Mike The Pretzel at May 26, 2009 2:24 PM
There's an indirect connection with the Clare Werbeloff story in Australia. Read some of the comments here
There's one particularly hilarious comment:
The lefties perfect woman:
Hairy armpits
Hairy legs
Unwashed hair
Large necklace with silver Mercedes logo hanging from it
Second hand tie-died clothes from the 60’s shop.
Grows her own dope and always empties the bong water after use.
Sadly Clare doesn’t fit that description so the left naturally hate her. I can think of one poster on here who may fit the above description however.
Robert W. (Vancouver) at May 26, 2009 4:36 PM
Knowing that you read Blair almost helps me like you again. Who's Clare Werbeloff?
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 4:54 PM
Ahh disregard, Google knows what wikipedia hasn't heard of yet
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at May 26, 2009 4:55 PM
Any human hung up on the visuals is useless in the long run.
anon at May 26, 2009 5:55 PM
Yes. Our machine overlords won't just use visuals. They'll use full spectrum arrays.
And that first girl is definitely full spectrum!
R2D2 at May 26, 2009 6:05 PM
"Pretty sure Manhattanites don't typically use the weather as an excuse for frumpiness."
Depends how much time they have to spend outside. I'd rather be frumpy than frostbitten, and I can't afford mink.
As for those who CAN wear heels because they drive everywhere... that's the influence of LA, where people also put on full makeup to go workout at the gym. LA is highly image conscious due to the entertainment industry and, dare I say, shallow...
"catcall isn't a prelude to rape"
Hell no. But friendly banter is NOT a catcall. A catcall is an insult, while a "Hey hot mama, you sure look fine today, have a good one!" is not.
"it sends the clear message that he is still worth the effort after 15 years."
So if I dress down on the street I'm really saying to everyone who passes me, "You're not worth the effort." That actually makes sense. If they diss me, they're responding to my statement. Hmm, a lifetime of dressing down to run around on the Manhattan subways un-mugged, all down the drain.
"yoga strikes me as a neutering exercise, like aerobics, where you're demasculinized by the very act of participating."
I don't understand how yoga de-masculinizes anyone, although he could take up kickboxing instead.
vi at May 26, 2009 6:18 PM
It is easier to just dress more modestly and avoid the bullshit all together.
-J
Posted by: Julie
Ok now that your dressed more modestly say
"Do you know what the punishment is for an overdue book?"
Trust me dressing more modestly might close off some thoughts, but others pop up just as quickly
lujlp at May 26, 2009 6:44 PM
Hmm. Some women can walk in heels. I was married to one - she moved like a dream. Cherié took a minute and explained it to me, years ago. Most look hurt on the street, because they just throw their feet forward. Put a bunch of muscle into walking and you'll beat your fancy shoes to pieces and blister yourself. So, glide right, develop a different gait, and you can stop traffic and heartbeats.
I've seen it done. Who even thinks they don't know how to walk? But - some don't!
I must say, I've been to France, England, Scotland and Norway, courtesy of Uncle Sam's Undersea Instant Parking Lot and Outdoor Barbecue Service. All ugly women come from England; Portsmouth, specifically, where they walk with toes in the air, as if clown shoes are standard equipment.
But Norwegian girls make others look p-l-a-i-n.
{sigh}
Radwaste at May 26, 2009 7:12 PM
As to the women who complain about how men look. You are right it does matter a bit - but we men can get away with it more then women because at times being a bit slobby looks a bit manly. As I commented before the Korean women generally all look nice and are well dressed. The thing is SO are the men, suits are quite common, neat clean casual clothes if no suit, rarely will you see slobby or daggy clothes. Thru now a days the men are dressing and looking a bit more metrosexual but that is the demand here.
Another point we men complain about is effort and lack of. I have seen fat woman who looked GREAT. They were dressed so well they wore make up (not clown makeup), hair looked great and one part of me said they look beautiful. The thing is those women took the effort to look good maybe not fabulous or hot but good. That just looking good can be all that is needed to attract somebody.
As to heels. This country of Korea is crazy for them. Some expats commented that Korean women would hike up mountains in high heels if only mountain boots came with heels. The think is if you going hiking on a popular mountain you will see a few of them with heels. Heels like above are the effort some people make. Do we men like ties those choking, neck itchiness inducing strips of cloth - NO. But we wear them because we look better in a tie. And many of us make the effort to look good.
John Paulson at May 26, 2009 7:23 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/05/26/girls_who_know.html#comment-1650475">comment from anonAny human hung up on the visuals is useless in the long run.
We're all hung up on visuals -- we evolved to care about the visuals (although men and women evolved to care about different visuals in particular, except for bilateral symmetry, meaning that your body and face are the same on either side, which probably indicated that you didn't have parasites or disease).
Amy Alkon at May 26, 2009 7:23 PM
I need the visuals!
This is a big problem that I run into when dating. I'm in my late 30's and I've found it very difficult to meet attractive women my own age. Frankly I get a lot of attention from younger women, but they're typically too young.
Most of the women that I meet who are of an appropriate age have lapsed into a sort of asexual dowdy mommy persona. And if I do happen to find them attractive, they'll often perceive me as some sort of playboy. But I'm not.
And the problem with dating a girl in her twenties is that I want to settle down, but recognize that the age difference is likely to be a problem in the long run. So I'm stuck.
Jack at May 26, 2009 8:32 PM
For some of us, driving to work or the grocery store is a LUXURY.
Clothing was a visual signifier so that classy folk could tell at a glance who was high-class and who wasn't. A poor person couldn't afford the wardrobe, much less the upkeep.
Some of my friends bike everywhere. Are we now officially banned by the LA lifestyle and fashion police? Are we "ugly" and "frumpy" because we don't drive our cars everywhere? Maybe all we need is a few sugar daddies to buy us tarty clothes and drive us around. Then we wouldn't have to work... and we could wear miniskirts night and day.
In the meantime, are we required to waste gasoline and pollute just so that we won't be labeled as frumps or hippies? Yeah yeah, in LA they drive NEXT DOOR and everything's 15 minutes away on the freeway... right? Is that really the ideal way to live?
If you've got big bucks and a lot of free time, yes, you can unite beauty and function in your wardrobe, but for those of us on a limited budget, it makes more sense to dress down for daily stuff, and save our pennies for one big outfit.
You men who love women in heels, go ahead and try it. Tell me again how great those Scandinavian women look as they glide down the street, while you glide along in pumps for at least a mile on a 15% grade (common in my hilly town). Go ahead, glide a little faster as you run to beat the traffic light... and glide a little more over that broken sidewalk so you don't break your ankle.
Of course a pair of $400 pumps are going to feel a lot better than a pair of $20 plastic pumps.
And who says heels are the only way for a woman to look good? The tone of the comments here seems to be "Suck up dem heels, bitch!" as if there's only one way to dress sexy.
Is "looking attractive" the same thing as "looking cheap"? Or is it the opposite?
vi at May 26, 2009 9:00 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/05/26/girls_who_know.html#comment-1650505">comment from viBitter much, vi?
As anyone who's a regular knows, few spend less on clothes than I do. Times are a wee bit tough, lately, so I'm not shopping really, but I had to get some stuff at Goodwill for the shoot for my book cover, so I splurged on a cashmere sweater and a pair of jeans. Cashmere sweater, $3. Jeans, $1.
I will often wear an evening dress and a leather jacket. I get the evening dresses on sale off season, usually at Loehmann's. The one I wore as my alternate for my book cover I actually got at Daffy's in New York for $19.99. The entire outfit I'm wearing on my book cover cost as follows: Donna Karan vest, $9.99 at National Liquidators, on lower Broadway in Manhattan. Long black gloves, $10, purchased on the street in New York. Fabulous black gem earrings, $9.99 on sale at DNA on Rose in Venice.
FYI, I rode my bike everywhere in New York, on a hot pink and orange bike with hot pink flowers all over it (theft-proofing!) and still managed to dress. I just found boots with rubber soles that would stick to my bike pedals. Oh yeah, and I also bought two pairs of FABULOUS Walter Steiger pumps at Loehmann's -- each for $19.99 -- and they have very high heels and Vibram soles and I used to bike around Manhattan in them. Still have them. See, when you buy quality stuff, it lasts. Also, I wear boots that are extremely comfortable. If you care about looking good, you manage to work these things out.
Oh, and my Honda Insight hybrid gets 65 mpg when the highways aren't crowded, and oh, 50 mpg on city streets when there's no traffic. I spent a little over $200 on gas last year. I don't bike, because in the cost-benefit analysis, with all the people texting on their cell phones in cars, I'm highly likely to end up hospitalized, paralyzed or dead. Something to consider.
P.S. I get all my tee shirts at Style Express on Overland, two for six dollars. I buy other clothes on eBay, like a Trina Turk sweater I wear on TV. $300 regular price -- paid $8.99 for it on eBay. And my favorite boots I've had since the early 90s. They were, if memory serves me, about $65 on sale. Alex Shoes in Santa Monica has been resoling them ever since. I do have to admit, I've never managed to top Emmanuelle Richard for looking great for less. She has a polka-dot halter dress she bought at Salvation Army for 50 cents. Well, it's nice to have something to aspire to.
In short, no, you're not ugly and frumpy because you're poor or you don't drive your cars everywhere. You're ugly and frumpy if you dress ugly and frumpy.
P.P.S. Something tells me your clothes cost way more than mine. And the irate attitude has to cost you plenty on top of that.
Amy Alkon at May 26, 2009 10:01 PM
The problem is, there is a lot of societal pressure to NOT dress up. And not just from women.
I've always loved dressing up. I love it. Ever since I was a kid, when I'd be the only girl at the party in a frilly pink dress, and everyone else was in jeans. Then as a teenager, and then as an adult. Now that I'm in my 30s, I'm not the only dressed-up one. Finally!
Because up until a couple years ago, that's how it was. All through my twenties, I'd go to a party and wear a skirt and dress and make-up, and everyone else was wearing jeans and a ratty t-shirt. I'd feel awkward and overdressed. I was worried people thought I was trying too hard... which is ironic, because it's much easier for me to look good in a nice skirt than in jeans. Sometimes I'd screw up my mind and try to find the perfect dressed-down outfit, and I'd spend hours trying to find a jeans and t-shirt outfit that actually made me feel look and feel sexy. I was trying too hard to look like I wasn't trying too hard.
And the lectures! The long lectures I would get from condescending guys who would tell me how women shouldn't wear make-up, it's a symbol of oppression, and they hate such-and-such public figure because she wears make-up (Laura Bush was one of them... apparently they thought she was quite the trollop with her over-made-up-ways). And how they know what's best for these women who disagree with them. The lectures from the grad students. Ugh.
I don't want you to think I was slathering my face with make-up... make-up means mascara and a light lipstick.
Thank god I've married a man who likes the way I look in skirts. If only he liked me to wear my hair down, but he's an updo man... but that's fine. I can wear skirts, and when I put on lipstick and perfume he's all happy.
But it ain't just the girls who want to be schlumpy. I felt enormous social pressure to dress down. From guys.
NicoleK at May 27, 2009 3:17 AM
A fashion statement I DON'T understand is flip-flops. In my attempts to look fashionably dressed down, I purchased some. They gave me horrible blisters that had me limping for weeks.
A nice pair of ballet flats is the way to go if you want to be physically comfortable, IMO. Or sandals if it is hot out. But, like jeans, I've never found a pair of flip-flops I would describe as amazingly physically comfortable.
NicoleK at May 27, 2009 3:27 AM
Why all the hate for these pretty ladies? I can wear the outfit #1 has and look good, I have a jersey dress like that, but I like her zippery thing better.
#2 is so elegant! I am just getting into shoes like that and they are lovely. I am going with the spikier ones, per beloved boyfriend's like, but I am sure he will like those too.
-- Suki ;)
Suki at May 27, 2009 4:38 AM
Stop hanging around with hippies.
brian at May 27, 2009 5:50 AM
Nicole - those guys probably found you attractive and felt that by 'enlightening' you they could both impress and control you. Was the lecture typically followed by an overture?
My younger sister used to run into this sort of thing a lot when she was in school. She's very pretty and very girly. Every semester she'd inevitably find herself the target of some lefty Claude Frollo who wanted to reform her. Of course, they really just wanted to sleep with her, but were too intimidated to approach her on her own terms - she had to be humiliated and coerced first.
Jack at May 27, 2009 6:52 AM
HEY!! I resemble that remark! O.O
I'M a hippy! But I don't always dress like one, and I think that's the key. Yes, I have tie-dye. I wear it to the beach (my Ron Jon cover-up) or casual parties/picnics (my favorite Bourbon Street New Orleans T-shirt). Never to work or out on the town. Yes I wear jeans. A lot, but not ALL of time. The most expensive thing I have in my wardrobe right now is a light grey with light blue pin stripes suit, which I bought on sale at Macy's for $90 (marked down from $350). I almost always wear flats, unless I'm wearing my black boots (1" heel) or sneakers, when I'm working out. I am by no means a fashion plate, but I like to look nice and feel comfortable as well. That said, I'm going to change out of my gym shorts, finish up the laundry, and go to lunch with my dearest friend Katha. In my GV jeans and long sleeved white lace blouse. So there!
Flynne at May 27, 2009 7:11 AM
I LOVE to dress up because it makes me feel good to make the best of what I have. I'm on a tight budget, but recently spent a few extra bucks to buy a lovely dress for a special occasion. Even though I am overweight I felt as attractive as any of the younger, thinner women at the party. I got a lot of compliments and had a wonderful time.
Another woman at that same event was about my size but was wearing baggy pants, an ugly blouse over a very ill-fitting bra, flats that looked like men's shoes, no makeup, messy hair and what looked from a distance like a unibrow.
Our appearance (at least the aspects of it that we can control) can be a reflection of how we feel about ourselves.
Aunt Judie at May 27, 2009 7:19 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/05/26/girls_who_know.html#comment-1650566">comment from NicoleKThe problem is, there is a lot of societal pressure to NOT dress up. And not just from women.
I get this, too.
Amy Alkon at May 27, 2009 7:59 AM
I'm so deprived. Clearly I've never been catcalled as I've yet to feel victimized by some words yelled at me by a bunch of guys while walking down the street. In my younger days, I remember blushing once or twice at the language, but I never felt insulted. I remember one particular incident standing in a line up at a hardware store, some young guy walked by and said, "Hey! Nice ass!", I turned, smiled and said, "Thanks, ain't it though!" All and all, a rather pleasant exchange.
moreta at May 27, 2009 8:13 AM
So if I dress down on the street I'm really saying to everyone who passes me, "You're not worth the effort." That actually makes sense. If they diss me, they're responding to my statement. Hmm, a lifetime of dressing down to run around on the Manhattan subways un-mugged, all down the drain.
We are talking about two totally different things. I am talking about not letting myself 'go' and get overly comfortable in an effort to show my husband that I not only want someone to rub my feet, but also someone to fuck the shit out of me. Walking around the house in sweats and never making the effort to look attractive would reduce his desire to have sex with me, and also indicates that I don't want to put forth the effort to remain attractive to him. That is a bad message if you want to continue with a fulfilling monogamous sex life.
You are talking about dressing down so that you remain unmolested in public. That is a completely different ball game than trying to keep spice in a marriage pushing 20 years old.
-Julie
Julie at May 27, 2009 8:28 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/05/26/girls_who_know.html#comment-1650578">comment from moreta"Hey! Nice ass!", I turned, smiled and said, "Thanks, ain't it though!" All and all, a rather pleasant exchange.
Moreta has the right idea. The proper response to "great ass!" is "Thank you!" Said with a smile.
Amy Alkon at May 27, 2009 8:38 AM
The proper response to "great ass!" is "Thank you!" Said with a smile.
I don't mind the 'nice ass' comments as long as they stop there. With me they usually follow me through parking lots and grocery stores making lewd comments or trying to back me into corners. I don't delude myself into thinking that I am so drop dead beautiful that men loose their minds, however I seem to be a beacon light for every skeevy nasty dude in a 3 mile radius. I haven't figured out why yet, but that is what self-examination is for, right?
-Julie
Julie at May 27, 2009 8:58 AM
The problem is, there is a lot of societal pressure to NOT dress up. And not just from women.
I get this, too.
I think it's a condition of living in LA. People here go out for $200 dinners in jeans and a tee shirt. I think it's a kind of reverse snobbism signaling: the more important you are the less you have to impress anyone. Heck, the one and only time I went to the opera, I was shocked to see people in jeans. I think Angelenos have taken the "casual" thing WAY too far. I *like* dressing up a little bit even if it means getting those sideways looks from folks in ratty shorts and flip-flops.
deja pseu at May 27, 2009 9:10 AM
I like dressing up and looking pretty, and I don't go out looking like a slob, but there are definitely times when I make an effort to dress down. My neighborhood is what is kindly called "transitional." Dressing up, even if I don't look like a hooker, gets me more attention than I want. When I walk around there, I prefer to remain invisible.
MonicaP at May 27, 2009 9:29 AM
deja, I've always believed that the so-called counterculture was actually far more conformist than the "establishment" that it decried. Among other things, I like to point out to young leftist women that the '60s counterculture pretty much required that a woman sleep with absolutely any man who asked; any woman who didn't do so was labeled "square".
NicoleK, interesting experiences you relate. Something sort of like it can happen to well-dressed men too. For instance, in my days I've spent a lot of time around musicians who consider anything beyond a ratty pair of jeans and a Black Flag T-shirt with cigarette burn holes to be overdressed. If you approach them wearing so much as a pair of kakhis and a polo shirt, they instantly brand you as a corporate tool. (When I want to freak them out, I tell them I work in the defense industry. Then they start making the sign of the cross at me.)
Cousin Dave at May 27, 2009 9:46 AM
Julie -- You're just lucky, I guess! (Tongue in cheek!)
moreta at May 27, 2009 9:47 AM
A word of caution about catcall banter...
While I've found that the banter works well in the States, do NOT try it in Europe. In the States, if you smile and keep walking, you have a nice exchange and it ends there. In Europe, if you respond with "Thanks!" to a "Nice ass!" comment, they will take it as an invitation to grab said ass. Happened to me a few times before I caught on. (I was NOT dressed in an "asking for it" way by any stretch of the imagination.)
It's because of the non-assilimated immigrants, mainly North African and Arab, who don't understand the social cues of the West. They are VERY hard to get rid of once given an opening, without sparking a confrontation.
Dave, it is so true. The rattier the better. And Deja is totally right on about the snobbism of it, people are dressing down because they can afford to.
No, Jack, the guys weren't hitting on me. They WERE telling me how they are more progressive then the women they know, because they know better what's good for the women. Which sounds to me like the opposite of progressive... more like paternalistic and condescending. Societies and pundits who have restricted the frills women can wear have not historically been the most women's libby.
It's not just LA. It's Cambridge/Somerville/Boston, too.
NicoleK at May 27, 2009 10:00 AM
Julie -- You're just lucky, I guess!
Yup, on the plus side, if anyone every needs someone to help them fake their own death, just contact me and I will walk through the Walmart with a mini-skirt on. All of the hoodlums will come out of the woodwork, and you can take your pick! :-D
Julie at May 27, 2009 10:29 AM
Of course, they really just wanted to sleep with her, but were too intimidated to approach her on her own terms - she had to be humiliated and coerced first
What is the big deal with just sleeping? LOL
Suki at May 27, 2009 10:56 AM
What is the big deal with just sleeping? LOL
Some people just look like they will be better at spooning than others. :-)
Julie at May 27, 2009 11:54 AM
Hmm, that's funny. I don't look a thing like those women because I can't afford to...too busy supporting my husband and myself since chemotherapy has left him disabled and unable to work. He still loves me though and says I don't need all that mess and I'm his pretty mama.
Miss Sashay at May 27, 2009 1:14 PM
I think whether you can safely say "thanks" or partake in polite banter after a guy makes a cat call depends on your stature and overall demeanor. Some guys obviously mean it as an opening, to see if you might be interested, and I find, being very petite and kind of delicate-looking, that men are more apt to pounce on me then because they perceive me as more vulnerable...whereas I imagine Amy can get away with it easier because she's so tall and looks a lot stronger.
Also, congrats momof4! Hope you're getting some sleep.
lovelysoul at May 27, 2009 1:15 PM
Yikes! Wolf-whistles and cat-calls directed at doe-eyed chicks by a bunch of dogs -- including both young bucks and horny old goats, no doubt!
It's a regular menagerie out there.
Jay R at May 27, 2009 2:10 PM
Sarah Palin - hot, hot, hot.
Dave B at May 27, 2009 5:44 PM
"It's because of the non-assilimated immigrants, mainly North African and Arab, who don't understand the social cues of the West."
Too true. The ones from Eastern Europe (some of which is now part of the EU) also have a different culture, though not as bad as the muslim immigrant. The Eastern European men tend to be macho, drive fast, live hard - which some women understandably find attractive. With this comes the rest of the package: the men expect to be the dominant partner in a relationship, with all of the ugliness that that implies.
bradley13 at May 27, 2009 10:45 PM
Though when I was in Toulouse last year, I got followed by an actual French guy who gave a long speech about how he likes big butts, and how he's so lonely because no one in France has a big butt, and since I'm not available (he didn't take the hint when I told him I was married), do I have any friends with big butts who would be his penpal?
I do agree it probably sucks to be a chubby chaser in France.
Lovelysoul has a good point. I'm short and a bit of a munchkin... not very threatening. I also tend to walk around with a smile on my face. Also not threatening.
NicoleK at May 28, 2009 12:55 AM
NicoleK, that's funny. A chubby chaser in France.
I've actually found that guys hit on me more when I'm not dressed up, like when I run into the grocery store on a Sun morning to pick up a carton of milk, with my hair tossled, no make-up, wearing whatever I grab to put on. It seems like every guy in the store will flirt with me then. And I remember complaining to my ex, "Why do guys hit on me when I look like crap?" and he said, "It's because you're a lot more approachable when you're not all made up with your hair perfectly coiffed."
And that kind of goes with some advice my dad gave me once. He said, "Guys like you to look a little vulnerable. Don't be too put-together. Always have something a bit out of place, like a misisng button or a run in your stocking, so guys have something to comment on. It gives them an opening to approach you."
At the time, I thought that was the silliest advice ever, and I never purposely ripped my stockings, but I suspect dad might've been right.
I mean, most guys here agree the first girl is hot, but she's not overly dressed up or made up. The second one seems to put some guys off. I wonder how much of that has to do with their perceived approachability. Which one would you honestly go up and talk to?
lovelysoul at May 28, 2009 6:57 AM
lovelysoul, it's kind of hard to tell becuase the light in the second photo is coming from the wrong angle. But I see one thing that makes a big difference: the shades. A person is far less approachable if you can't see their eyes. So if you are in a social situation and you want people to approach you, take the dark sunglasses off.
Cousin Dave at May 28, 2009 8:03 AM
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