Why Are We All Getting Fat?
This is the evidence-based science -- the stuff you aren't getting from the medical establishment. Gary Taubes gives a fascinating talk at Dartmouth, complete with slides, linked here.
His terrific book, which lays out how much of what we think is dietary science is actually "science," is Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health. I highly recommend it. At the very least, listen to this lecture. It should change the way you eat and improve your life in substantial ways. His work has done that for me.
via Dr. Eades
Fat feeds the brain. Thanks for the book suggestion.
Feebie at June 17, 2009 10:19 AM
Well, I am living proof and back on the bandwagon.
I've been an on again off again proponent of low carbing for years. I have often dropped off simply because the constant counting of carbs brings out a compulsive side of me that makes life miserable. (Is that sugar-free tic tac .5 or .75 carbs?)
I have been completely off of sugar (sucrose, fructose, cooked veggies) since 2000 and used that with severe caloric restriction to loose over 100 lbs, most of which I've kept off (I gained back 20 and leveled off).
I've been wanting to get back into my size 2s again, and decided to give it another try. This time, though, I am not counting carbs. I am finding meals that avoid the bad stuff and letting myself off the hook one day per week. In the process, I got a bunch of blood work done. My HDL is 38, LDL is 132, triglycerides are 102. Those are spectacular numbers, especially since I personally eat 4 eggs a day. I've also lost half an inch around my rib cage,and half an inch around my ass.
I'm just starting to hit the 'carb detox' problems...and my body is kinda pissed. But I know that once I get through these minor issues, I should be in the clear. Plus it will be fun to explain this diet to my new cardiologist tomorrow. :-D
-Julie
Julie at June 17, 2009 10:27 AM
I don't count carbs, I just don't really eat them. I had dessert the other night -- but a tiny one, and I will drink wine about twice a week (a glass or maybe two of white wine), but I basically eat the following:
Cheese omelets
Bacon
Cheese
Salami
Cheeseburgers
Chicken basted in olive oil with Old Bay and garlic tucked under the skin
Green beans cooked in oil with bacon bits
Lettuce with vinegar, oil, and Gorgonzola cheese
Trader Joe's 4% milkfat cottage cheese
Occasionally, smoked salmon (Gregg gets me some when he's at Whole Paycheck, uh, Whole Foods, but I don't shop there these days)
Period.
I feel 17, have tremendous energy, and can work into the evening where I was too tired when I simply ate a low carb (instead of an almost-no-carb diet)
I could never exercise again and I'd still be rail thin. I do exercise, but not because I need to to keep weight off, just to be healthy and for pert ass cheeks! (Boyfriends like this.)
Regarding carb detox, first few days are a bitch and the first month can be hard, too, but I don't crave sweets AT ALL now. I only eat dessert for fun sometimes when we're out. And never some pastry-heavy thing...always something fatty and/or chocolate'y like chocolate mousse or creme brulée or or just the pie part of apple pie (tarte tatin). Ice cream flies, too. But, again, maybe once every two weeks or once a week. The feeling I have not eating carbs makes it not hard to give them up. Plus, how can you complain about eating bacon? PS There are more nitrites in your saliva than in bacon.
Amy Alkon at June 17, 2009 10:49 AM
At this point I am eating eggs and bacon for breakfast, a spinach and egg salad drenched in olive oil red wine garlic vinaigrette for lunch, pepperoni for a snack, and fajita meat and hot wings for dinner. For a desert I will sometimes have sugar free full fat milkshakes or some sugar free chocolate or toffee. I haven't gotten on a scale in awhile, but I suspect my weight is lower, and I know that I am smaller. I could weigh 500 lbs as long as I fit into my clothes.
I have felt better, other than this pesky heart thing. I like doing it better this way. I step outside the lines when I really want to, but otherwise I feel good eating this way. I'm not worried about nitrates...of all of my health issues, nitrates are the least of my worries. :-) I'm wondering (once I get past the headaches and generally crappy feelings) if my other health issues will improve...although it is too soon to tell.
-Julie
Julie at June 17, 2009 11:26 AM
No other veggies? Don't you get bored?
I'm worried that I love food too much to keep that diet.
Mary at June 17, 2009 12:15 PM
No other veggies? Don't you get bored?
I'm worried that I love food too much to keep that diet.
I frankly detest veggies. I manage to choke down some that I find less retched than others, but by and large, I could live without eating another one ever again. :-) Same with fruit. The only ones I was ever able to eat are apples and bananas. My blood sugar won't allow those anymore.
There is a great number of recipes for low carb foodies. This is a good place to start: http://www.atkins.com/Recipes.aspx
I'm sure you could find something that you would love there...but I am just a creature of habit with massive food issues...it is easier to eat what I know I can tolerate.
-Julie
Julie at June 17, 2009 12:26 PM
I believe sugar-free food is not ideal -- I think it could kick off the insulin response that puts on fat, due, perhaps, to the body's expectation that sugar is on the way vis a vis the taste. I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, but can't remember where I read it right now or locate any studies in my studies folder.
Taubes told me, when I interviewed him a few years back, that meat has every vitamin but C, and in good proportion in terms of what the human body needs.
Amy Alkon at June 17, 2009 12:53 PM
Mary, I never, ever, ever tire of bacon. And I could have other veggies, and sometimes do, but the thing is, I feel so great, it's worth it to eat this way. Just had some mayonnaise with a little tuna, because I have to cook the chicken still. And I'm not kidding! Fat keeps me full. I go through a jar of Trader Joe's mayo in no time.
Amy Alkon at June 17, 2009 12:55 PM
Life without bread and pasta isn't an option.
Eric at June 17, 2009 1:08 PM
Somewhat unrelated, but I just made my own peanut butter, and it is very much worth the small amount of trouble.
Add a cup of roasted, unsalted peanuts, a teaspoon of honey and some salt to a food processor. Process well, for about a minute. Add peanut oil and process until you get the texture you want. Add more honey and/or salt to taste. It keeps for a couple of months in the fridge in a mason jar.
This is pretty amazing smeared inside raw jalapenos.
MonicaP at June 17, 2009 1:08 PM
I believe sugar-free food is not ideal
I agree that it is not ideal, but I cannot have any sugar, so it is either eat sugar free or never have any sweets for the next 60 years until I die. My insulin response to sugar is horrible by comparison. Even small amounts of sugar (lime juice on a margarita glass...I love to eat the salt from my husband's drink!) can cause an insulin reaction that has me on the floor with a blood sugar in the 40s. I am able to have some Splenda and watch my overall carbs. Both NutraSweet and Saccharine make me ill.
-Julie
Julie at June 17, 2009 1:09 PM
>> There are more nitrites in your saliva than in bacon.
ewww. Sounds like a way to get out of a blowjob.
Eric at June 17, 2009 1:11 PM
"Sounds like a way to get out of a blowjob."
Nah. Mention that you've had Monica's peanut butter stuffed raw jalapenos and I'm sure that'd get a "No thank you" even quicker.
Juliana at June 17, 2009 1:18 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/17/why_are_we_all.html#comment-1654208">comment from EricSounds like a way to get out of a blowjob.
Not to give up too much information, but I don't consider it a "job."
Amy Alkon at June 17, 2009 1:21 PM
Is there a vegetarian/pescetarian way to do this? Obviously it will be more limited, but is it suitable to stick with eggs, yogurt, cottage cheese and other dairy for the fat and protein? I’m willing to eat fish and seafood, too, but no other animals. I know I should probably just read the book, which I plan to do, but maybe some advice from someone who has read it will answer this quick question.
Angie at June 17, 2009 1:31 PM
Not to give up too much information, but I don't consider it a "job."
hehe, I agree. Consider it a job and your love will be out looking for someone who doesn't. :-D
-Julie
Julie at June 17, 2009 1:41 PM
I’m willing to eat fish and seafood, too, but no other animals.
Why? Because fish aren't cute?
Just wonderin'!
It would be hard to get enough fat from fish alone, I'd think. Unless you eat it literally swimming in butter, which you could.
Amy Alkon at June 17, 2009 3:09 PM
The thing about diets is that pretty much all of them work in theory; the question is whether you're able to incorporate them into your lifestyle and follow them over the long haul. If the extreme low-carb diet works for you then that's awesome, but millions of other people swear by Weight Watchers, a Mediterranean diet, just a basic balanced diet, etc. Pretty much the best diet plan for any individual is the plan that incorporates the most foods they like and that their body responds well to. I suppose Taubes is a blast for anyone who looooves cheeseburgers, but it wouldn't work so well for a vegetarian; someone who's lactose intolerant; a hard-core athlete; or someone who has trouble with portion control. I could never do it, because I'm a vegetarian (besides fish), I don't eat very much dairy (it's a taste/preference thing), and I lovelovelove fruits and vegetables, plus I like to eat a wide variety of interesting ethnic foods. Not to mention that the idea of all that fat seems repulsive to me.
And really-America is not getting fat off of too many fruits, veggies, and whole grains. If everyone just followed the food pyramid and practiced moderation, then we might not have a nation of supermodels, but we certainly wouldn't have an obesity epidemic either.
Shannon at June 17, 2009 11:17 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/17/why_are_we_all.html#comment-1654364">comment from Shannonsomeone who has trouble with portion control.
You can't eat five cheeseburgers, but you can probably eat piles of carbs.
I think it was Taubes who gave the example that the equivalent of a bag of popcorn at the movies would be eating 18 slices of cheese. Again, you can binge on carbs in a way you just wouldn't on a piece of meat.
Amy Alkon at June 17, 2009 11:22 PM
Actually, following the "food pyramid" is what got us hordes of fat-ass fifth-graders.
If you follow the "food pyramid" you get the bulk of your calories from processed grains, and almost nothing from fat.
Humans were not designed to eat grass. We were designed to eat meat, nuts, and berries.
brian at June 18, 2009 4:48 AM
Well, I love my bread, and have the build of a bowling pin to prove it.
My wife is another story. When she decided to lose some weight, she went full-bore. She gave up rice altogether. She's an Asian woman, and had been eating rice since before she had teeth. We have a special rice-holding bin in our house. The rice cooker had been running more or less continuously since our wedding day. Giving up her rice was a very big deal, but, coupled with exercise, she was able to shed 75-80 pounds since last summer!
old rpm daddy at June 18, 2009 5:22 AM
I like food too much. In addition I like too much food. It's a bad combination.
What's helped me lose weight was breaking my soda habit. 3 cans a day equals enough calories to lose a pound a week (or at least to gain that much less per week). I was pleasantly surprised that my sleep improved also: when I avoid caffeine for days at a time I wake up feeling refreshed an hour before I have to. As an interim measure I've replaced it with diet tea (zero calories and ok to bad taste) but my long term goal is to drink mostly water, with orange juice as an occasional treat.
Pseudonym at June 18, 2009 7:13 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/17/why_are_we_all.html#comment-1654418">comment from PseudonymOccasional treats are good, I think, but FYI, for anybody who thinks drinking juice is a good idea, it's just as carb'y as soda. If you must have fruit, better to eat a piece. But, again, living without treats entirely probably promotes bingeing.
Amy Alkon at June 18, 2009 7:15 AM
Shannon, my eating style is similar to yours (except that I love, love, love cheese and yogurt and milk). I found portion control to be the best way to manage my weight. I also found that having a varied diet probably puts a natural limit on the amount of sugar and flour I eat.
MonicaP at June 18, 2009 7:39 AM
People are social eaters. We eat for all sorts of reasons other than being hungry. I finally managed to lose weight and keep it off when my husband deployed to Iraq. I now follow a couple of very simple rules. The first is that I don't buy or eat any prepackaged baked goods, deserts or breakfast cereals. (Never go to the grocery store hungry) I try to avoid white flour as much as possible. I do not buy or eat store bought candy other than a little chocolate every once in a while although I do allow myself to make candy at home occasionally and eat it for a treat. Carmel corn and peanut brittle are my favorites. I do drink sodas but usually only one or half of one in a day for a total of no more than five cans in a week. I really like the San Pellagrino orange sodas which have about two thirds calories of the regular commercial brand and a lot more flavor. As I get older I seem to be losing my taste for sweets so it is becoming easier. Other rule is eat when you are hungry and not because you are in front of food, have it in the refrigerator or are sitting at a restaurant with other people who are eating. If I get filled up on salad before a restaurant meal I will usually eat about a third of my order and take home the rest. Eat real food, not processed crap. Do not snack after dinner unless you are so hungry you can't sleep in which case, eat real food, I find a need a certain amout of carbs to feel full but I try and make sure that they are complex. Anything that has preservatives in order to have shelf life is off my menu so I tend to buy organic, not because it is better but has no preservatives. I don't like milk but do eat organic greek yougert for breakfast about five days a week. I don't avoid fat. I ideally would like to lose another 30 pounds but if it doesn't happen on how I currently eat, I am OK with it. My blood pressure was 120/70 at the doctor's office the other day and that was after two cups of black coffee. I feel my overall health is better than it was 15 years ago. When I was a kid I watched my father eat pretty much like I do now and maintain the same light weight throughout his adult life. On the other hand my mother had a problem and her first question of the day was "what are we having for dinner? I have found things to keep me busy that don't involve food. I don't plan meals anymore and I rarely think about food unless I am actually hungry. As others said, the key is portion control and if you listen to your body you will stop eating way before you have finished an entire restaurant meal.
Isabel1130 at June 18, 2009 9:00 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/17/why_are_we_all.html#comment-1654453">comment from Isabel1130I used to eat because I had such strong emotions, and I stopped eating for anything besides hunger with the help of this book:
Diets Don't Work: Stop Dieting Become Naturally Thin Live a Diet-Free Life
Now I only eat when I'm physically hungry. I learned to identify the difference after reading this book.
A brownie won't make you happy. You'll still have whatever problem you had, only you'll also be fatter and feel like crap.
Amy Alkon at June 18, 2009 9:36 AM
"Actually, following the "food pyramid" is what got us hordes of fat-ass fifth-graders.
If you follow the "food pyramid" you get the bulk of your calories from processed grains, and almost nothing from fat."
Point taken, Brian. I guess my point wasn't that people should follow the food pyramid to a T, but that it's very feasible to control your weight by eating reasonable portions of healthy foods, without taking the extreme measure of cutting out any of the food groups.
And kids today are fat because of too much junk food, fast food, inflated portions, simple and processed (not complex!) carbs, sugar, and unhealthy fats-like the kinds found in donuts and cheetos-, as well as a sedentary lifestyle. If you look back 50 years ago before the obesity epidemic was a real problem, it wasn't because people were following the Gary Taubes diet plan, it was because people were eating a more balanced diet with more homemade foods and less processed crap, as well as leading a more active lifestyle.
Shannon at June 18, 2009 9:40 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/17/why_are_we_all.html#comment-1654466">comment from ShannonTaubes points out in GCBC that the food pyramid was written by an aide to George McGovern with no science experience.
Amy Alkon at June 18, 2009 10:02 AM
“Why? Because fish aren’t cute?”
To be honest, kind of. But really, it’s more than just that. When I was 17 (after being vegetarian for two years) I started to lose my hair in amounts that weren’t normal. Mom took me to the doctor and I had blood tests and thyroid tests and all that… nothing they could find out of the ordinary, but they told me to take some vitamins to help hair growth. Mom insisted I get more protein, so I ate fish and seafood because I didn’t want to lose my hair. In hindsight, I think it had less to do with adequate protein and more to do with my being a stupid teenager that wasn’t eating ANYthing. When I went veg, I lost weight, and I was a chubby kid, so I let it go too far… plus I had a lot of stress from graduating high school and starting college, which just made things worse.
Anyway, I’m willing to do it basically because I know it doesn’t make me sick to eat it because I’ve gone through periods of eating it and not eating it, and aside from eggs and dairy, I’m pretty limited if I want to cut carbs because I just can’t eat other meat. I’m not one of those vegetarians that thinks eating meat is wrong, I think hunting is good (actually better than factory farming, which is where I have the biggest problem, and not just because of the animals)… I just *personally* cannot do that to an animal.
I’m aware that it’s hypocritical, and I do feel sorry for the fish. I once went fishing with my boyfriend’s family and watched his dad cut the fish while they were still alive and it sucked because that was dinner… I also read an article a couple of months ago about how shellfish probably not only feel, but also remember and avoid pain… which makes me feel bad, but I personally have to just not think about it to be somewhat okay with it.
I guess perhaps because I’m able to view fish as less complex than other animals I can stomach it… anyway, I feel like I might have already given WAY too long of an answer, so if you want more, I’ll gladly give it, but for now, I’ll just shut up!
Angie at June 18, 2009 10:10 AM
I read the two books Amy recommended (Good Calories, Bad Calories and Diets Don't Work). I've been low-carbing it for a about three weeks now.
I feel great, I've lost about eight pounds, and am truly amazed that my cravings for junk food and sweets have virtually disappeared. I've been to two parties where I waited until my hunger pangs hit before enjoying roast beef, ham, cheese and veggies until I was just full. No desserts could tempt me. The beer looked good, but I abstained. If you knew me, you would know that this was almost a miracle.
At one of the parties I watched a 10-year-old girl eat nothing but carbs for hours (buns, chips, brownies, cookies). She has always been overweight (as are her parents), and it made me really sad. She reminded me of me at that age.
Aunt Judie at June 18, 2009 2:17 PM
Oh, and Amy...thanks for rekindling my love for cottage cheese! Didn't like the low fat kind, but now my favorite breakfast is 4% fat cottage cheese mixed with fresh salsa with lots of black pepper. Mmmmm...I could go for some now!
Aunt Judie at June 18, 2009 2:20 PM
Due to Amy's influence, I'm trying to cut back on carbs. I've switched from cereal for breakfast to yoghurt and berries with almonds, for example. I'm trying to avoid pasta, cereal, and bread all together, unless I'm at someone's house and that is what they are serving.
I invented a low-carb vegetarian dish yesterday. Here is the recipe:
Take some cheese and grate it. Put it into the food processor with a little milk, and puree. Add garlic and basil. Add vital wheat gluten until it makes a thick dough. (Gluten is the proteiny part of the wheat, according to the box 1 tbsp has 5 grams of protein and 3 of carbs, which is a decent ratio.).
Form the dough into patties. They should be flat. Saute in olive oil until golden.
I topped it with roasted tomatos.
I used cheddar, but next time I will use feta, and mint instead of basil. I will probably try gruyere with rosemary at some point, and top it with mushrooms in cream. Mix it up a bit. Maybe add some onions or chopped veggies to the mix.
It has only been a few days. I keep breaking down mid afternoon and having sweets, though. Now they are mostly gone from the house, except the frozen yoghurt, which I don't tend to binge on, so I think I'll be ok as long as I don't buy more. I also find that dates and honey are sweets I can eat a small amount of and not go crazy and eat the whole thing. Chocolate and baked goods make me go crazy and eat the whole thing.
I'm worried because while fat and protein tend to keep me full for a longer time, they don't kick in right away, so there is this time between when I eat and when it kicks in that I'm still hungry. Anyone else experience this? Any tips for dealing with that?
NicoleK at June 18, 2009 2:26 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/17/why_are_we_all.html#comment-1654543">comment from Aunt JudieThanks so much for posting your experience Aunt Judie...really, people need to try this. People who've been in agony dieting and exercising to no avail their whole lives drop pounds like butter melting off them.
Amy Alkon at June 18, 2009 2:26 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/17/why_are_we_all.html#comment-1654545">comment from NicoleKGet a sense of what fills you up and eat only that. And eat slowly.
Amy Alkon at June 18, 2009 2:28 PM
Haven't you people ever heard of fiber?? It has zero calories because the body can't use it. It goes through you and cleans out your system. It fills you up and gives you that full feeling.
Drink water. Eat in moderation, eat everything. And get some king of minimal amount of exercise.
That way your liver and kidneys will thank you for not overindulging in protein and fat.
And, your brain, which can only use glycogen, will thank you for the modest amount of carbs. The only other way to produce glycogen is by metabolizing protein, which is a slow and silly process when you need it. People in keytosis have been known to lose it mentally.
Also the fast twitch muscles need sugars stored locally in the muscles for those instant fight or flee reactions.
Any recommendation to eat only certain types of foods is a DIET.
Ian at June 18, 2009 5:41 PM
And this is science:
http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=485
ian at June 18, 2009 5:45 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/17/why_are_we_all.html#comment-1654581">comment from IanIan, I'm a little busy, so please buy GCBC and see how Taubes debunks the bullshit on fiber.
I don't need to eat the way I do to remain thin -- I do it because I haven't felt this amazing in years.
You won't be constipated if you're eating enough fat in your diet.
Here's some of the stuff on fiber from Taubes' book:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Xdm40JUD9HwC&pg=PA131&lpg=PA131&dq=Taubes+on+fiber&source=bl&ots=aLqeM8IzE8&sig=zfvKawNFUk7mtAlZ4QqzO3YfHxI&hl=en&ei=-986SsbhF4XYsgPOq_2ACw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9
Don't have time to debunk the rest of what you wrote - but frankly, it's all in the video, which you apparently did not watch. And if you read the posts here of people who've changed their eating habits, you'll see they've lost weight and kept it off -- as have I. Effortlessly.
PS Fiber makes you fart, and you don't need it. In fact, eating it stresses your system.
Amy Alkon at June 18, 2009 5:46 PM
Thanks Amy. I will get it and read it.
However, I am always a suspicious scientist. :)
I am very suspicious of any claims such as 'it worked for me'. Without a controlled experiment, all evidence is anecdotal. Alternative medicine believers often claim such things.
But, I have been reading you for many years and I know you're very rational. And who am I to stand in the way of you keeping your figure, which, I might add, we see far too little of in these pages. :)
My problem is, I LOVVVE carbs too. But I also never worry about what I eat, and I've never been overweight in my life. So I realize that I have a less sympathetic demeanor for those with problems.
ian at June 18, 2009 6:04 PM
Oh and I did watch the video. And stayed awake until about 1am watching it.
I happened to like his arguement about the energy balance not necessarily being causal, but symptomatic. That is a very good thought. And even though I'm a physicist and love the laws of thermodynamics, he is right if it is symptomatic and not causal.
Ian at June 18, 2009 6:09 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/17/why_are_we_all.html#comment-1654592">comment from IanThanks, Ian -- please let me know what you think of the book.
Amy Alkon at June 18, 2009 6:57 PM
Amazingly, I've lost weight this month. I am about 5 pounds down from when I last stepped on a scale, before my travels. I'm amazed because during my travels, I was eating a diet that was neither low-fat, low-calorie, nor low-carb. I must have been eating less than I thought, or all that walking around really does burn calories. Or there is something in American foods that isn't in European foods.
I mean I don't get it. How come whenever I go to Europe, I eat cheese, fries, chocolates, cakes, ice cream coupes, pizza, racclette, fondue ... I'm not *only* eating those things, of course, but still... and I always lose weight???
WTF?
No matter whether you subscribe to low-fat or low-carb, I ought to be gaining weight on such a diet.
NicoleK at June 19, 2009 6:42 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/17/why_are_we_all.html#comment-1654655">comment from NicoleKIn France and other countries of continental Europe, I bet you're not eating high-fructose corn syrup. Also, you're probably moving around like mad. I just weighed myself this morning (I typically don't use my scale to weigh anything but my luggage). I'm 45 years old, 5'9", and 125.8. (I weighed 132 in high school, and I was pretty slim -- have boobs, so I guess they weigh something.) P.S. I'm eating two strips of bacon right now, and soon I'll have my morning cheese omelet. And I am almost never very hungry, except if I keep putting off lunch endlessly like I did yesterday while researching something.
Amy Alkon at June 19, 2009 7:16 AM
I am very suspicious of any claims such as 'it worked for me'. Without a controlled experiment, all evidence is anecdotal. Alternative medicine believers often claim such things.
Controlled experiments have been going on for decades, with conflicting or (worse) purposely distorted results. When food science gets "spun" for the benefit of everyone except the people whom the knowledge is intended to help, we have to take things into our own hands and trust our personal experience.
"It works for me" is all I need.
Aunt Judie at June 19, 2009 7:26 AM
Ian, regarding "it worked for me," the science is laid out here in the lecture and in Taubes' book. But, in a world where nobody loses weight easily or keeps it off, here are people saying they've dropped 5, 10, 20 pounds like it was nothing, and kept it off. I'm among them. I probably weighed 135 or 140 before starting to eat this way. I'm tall, with hooters, so I look good at that weight - like a person of normal weight, not fat. But, I look really good at this weight, plus I have tremendous energy.
PS If you live near a Trader Joe, their 4 percent milkfat cottage cheese is creamy-amazing. Just bought five last night of the huge one. I'll go through them in a couple weeks. Easiest thing to eat in the evening if I need a snack or between meals.
Oh, and one bit of counseling I got from my sister (who buys lard at the butcher and folds it into their food) is that if you're constipated, you're not eating enough fat, and you need bigger portions of things like hamburgers. I eat a GIANT cheeseburger at lunch, but that's all I eat. Or a big piece of chicken, cooked in my cast-iron pan and basted with olive oil several times, and then reheated in the micro with more olive oil on top. Yum! And you have to buy fatty chicken with the skin or you'll be hungry. The problem is always getting enough fat -- especially in the land of fat-free (asinine!) foods. Fat fills you up!
Amy Alkon at June 19, 2009 7:35 AM
Yeah, I've always loved cottage cheese, but the soupy, slimey mess that is passed off as cottage cheese today makes me blow large-curd chunks.
It wasn't too long ago that cottage cheese was scooped-out with an ice cream scoop onto a piece of lettuce, and the CC held its shape perfectly. Try that with today's cottage cheese. Good cottage chees is history now.
Jay J. Hector at June 19, 2009 3:27 PM
I'm sorry. I liked his talk but I have to say: What you feel, counts for nothing in science. Anecdotal Evidence is of no value and can't be used because it is not controlled.
That is why we have controlled studies. Because studies can indeed be WRONG. That is why experiments are repeated. That is how science progresses. By making mistakes and constantly correcting. That is why one day the newspaper will report one thing, and another thing a month later. Things change, and the correct methods do make it to the limelight. Einsteins relativity was not accepted until the evidence started mounting. And that IS the way it should be.
As for the lecture, it is food for thought (pun intended), but a lecture is not science. And neither is a book. But as I said, I will buy the book and have a read.
There is only one thing in science and it is EXPERIMENT. All else is stamp collecting. A lecture expounding theories is the start of an idea. But theory is not the entire story. It has to be backed by experimental evidence. And that means a randomized control trial over a LONG period of time, not a few days or months.
So if I was Taubes, I would be pushing for funding a two year study, overseen by someone else, preferably a critic of my ideas, to ensure that I'm not fooling myself and that it will be rigorous, because critics have a way of nit-picking.
In the immortal words of Richard Feynman, it doesn't matter how clever the idea is, or how great the person was that said it, or how beautiful it is. If the experiment shows otherwise, it's wrong. Period.
The link I posted earlier talks about the fact that on ANY type of diet, you will lose weight at first. But it will level off, and then it will come back. A few days? A few weeks? On a couple of people posting is not evidence. Keep your weight off for a year or two. And have 800 people with CONTROLLED environments keep it off.
Of course you ate fat and protein, BUT, how much EXACTLY? And how often? And what else did you do? And I mean what else exactly. And how did it compare, calorie wise, to your previous food habits? Did you go through a depression recently? Period of hyperactivity? Did you write it down? Give me the numbers.
If I have a headache, and I rub Jello on my head, and the headache goes away, does it mean that Jello made my headache go away? NO. To science this is not evidence. Too many things can also make your headache go away. And headaches go away anyway. You have to do this for hundreds of people in a controlled setting for this to be determined.
The loss of weight or fat has too many factors. To study the idea, you have to control all the other ways a person might lose weight in order to isolate the effect and to see the magnitude of the effect compared to other things.
Exercising doesn't burn many calories. A really hard, 1 hour work out, may burn about 600 calories. You can eat a sandwich and get that back. This is the reason exercise alone doesn't do much. Exercise is for toning the muscles and helping with body movement and improving heart and lung capacity. In itself, it burns only a few calories compared to your daily food intake.
One other thing, the video shows a woman skinny on top and fat below. What EXACTLY was her distribution of fat cells when she was younger? Where is the picture? Distribution of fat cells is not the same for everyone. That woman was a case, and not typical. But it could be explained by something as simple as that. So that has to be discounted too.
Please read the link I posted about the very lengthy study.
I am very surprised at the debate this brings up from a bunch that are normally very rational. But in this instance are saying things like controlled trials are bunk.
If you suspect this Taubes method is correct, then you will welcome a controlled trial so that the evidence will be shown to everyone in a large scale study. But if you don't like the idea that you might be proven wrong, then you might not want a trial.
And please don't tell me that there is a conspiracy in the medical world. Science reserves its greatest rewards to those who show that old ideas are wrong. That's why people are constantly trying to show that the other guy is wrong. And this is also part of the self correcting machinery of science.
Science works. Let this method be put to a long term test and be done with it.
Ian at June 19, 2009 8:41 PM
"I probably weighed 135 or 140 before starting to eat this way. I'm tall, with hooters, so I look good at that weight - like a person of normal weight, not fat. But, I look really good at this weight"
Amy, you tease. Just post a picture and put the male population out of their painful stirrings.
:)
Ian at June 19, 2009 9:03 PM
An article you may find interesting:
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28715.html
Please be sure to first read the initial articles mentioned at the begining. Especially, Michael Fumento's article linked at the begining.
Ian at June 19, 2009 9:44 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/17/why_are_we_all.html#comment-1654848">comment from IanFumento has some major grudge against Taubes. I suspect it may be because Taubes is quite handsome and successful and has won the major science journalism prize so many times he's now disqualified from winning it again, as in, they'd like to let other science journos have a chance. Fumento's piece was a pretty despicable attack piece with myriad errors and distortions (see Taubes' response linked below) and I was told by a writer/editor I have great respect for at reason that he regrets they ever published Fumento's piece.
Taubes responded and set the record straight here. I found the sleazy tactics he details in Fumento's piece shocking:
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28721.html
And here's Seipp on Fumento taking money from Monsanto:
http://www.iwf.org/news/show/19051.html
Amy Alkon at June 20, 2009 12:26 AM
I was trying to improve my eating habits a few years ago so I kept a food journal of what I ate every day. I would look up exactly what was in the food I ate to see the protein, fat, carbs, etc.
What works for me (anecdotal) is avoiding high glycemic foods. Anything with an 'ose' in it, (sucrose, fructose, lactose), pasta, bread, potatoes, are to be avoided or minimized. I'm very sensitive to blood sugar spikes and crashes (I get headaches from them), so it keeps me feeling really good. Also only eat real food, the quality stuff they tend to eat in Europe.
Sometimes I'm asked how I stay slim (5'10, 136), and I just say thanks and change the subject because people don't really want to know.
Chrissy at June 20, 2009 7:11 AM
My worry is that Taubes did great work in reporting on other legitimately bogus science such as Cold Fusion etc., and may have switched over to thinking that much of science is a conspiracy. It isn't. And that is why he was *rewarded* for his other work. For writing about real bogus stuff. As I said before, science rewards those who overthrow the established conventions. But only if the conventions are proved incorrect.
The original article by Fumento pointed to the weight of evidence (pun intended) that was ignored by Taubes, and didn't contain any ad hominem attacks, but quotes from others interviewed by Taubes.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28714.html
I would advise caution when people refer to doctors and scientists as the 'medical establishment'.
In the meantime, please be careful with this stuff. While almost any diet will get your weight down, health is about more than that.
I would ask that anyone following this method track for 2 weeks what they ate, and count the actual calories they consumed while losing weight. And here is the trick: just write down the stuff you ate and amounts(mass) for the 2 weeks, then do the tally up of calories math at the end of it (not during). Divide by the number of days. Oh, and weigh yourself every day at the same time of day. Preferably let someone else read the scale and write it down and not tell you how you're doing over the two week period.
If you really can eat as many calories as you like as long as it's fatty food or protein then you should be losing weight while eating lots of calories.
An average person, female, needs about 1800 to 1900 calories per day to maintain their weight and will lose if their calorie intake drops below that. For men, they need about 2000 to 2100 calories per day to maintain their weight.
In any case, I leave my mind open and remain skeptical.
Ian at June 20, 2009 7:22 AM
I will point out a flaw in the method I suggest above. There is no way to know how many calories your body actually absorbed from the food.
Some food will pass through without being metabolized.
So a real experiment would count the calories excreted as well. :) Ya.. fun job...
So it could well be that this Atkins diet works because you wind up absorbing fewer calories from this type of food, or because you get full and don't actually eat as much as you think you are eating.
Carbs are easy to absorb, and easy to overeat. So yes, society today has access to lots of carbs.
Personally, I stay away from absolutely nothing. I just watch how much I eat (I eat Euro portions), and if I over-indulge one day, I tend to cut back the next. But I eat everything.
I exercise as often as I'm able to. That means, if I have a good week: about 3x/week, 30 min aerobic type and about 30 min weights each workout.
Ian at June 20, 2009 7:50 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/06/17/why_are_we_all.html#comment-1654883">comment from IanIan, you're talking like somebody who hasn't read the science. And Fumento's attack was debunked by Taubes rather neatly. Read the book and then talk about it. Taubes spent seven years looking into the science. And he is no conspiracy theorist.
I weigh less than what I weighed in high school -- effortlessly -- and I'm never hungry. My boyfriend has started eating this way and wore pants last night that he hasn't worn in years.
Amy Alkon at June 20, 2009 9:07 AM
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