I am not a nebbish - but part of loving my wife is seeing her as an equal rather than a servant - not because she's a feminist, but because I'm a mentsch.

"Love thy neighbor as thyself" means I certainly don't want to pick up other people's dirty laundry - so I don't leave it for someone I admire enough to marry and breed with.

Home chores have naturally slid back and forth between us - initially she was working while I was studying, then she was home with the kids, now we both are working.

Why the @#$*@# should she get up to make me a sandwich - she worked just as hard as I did all day.

Again - not because of feminism, not a new world order.

Because of the very OLD world order of respect, commitment, and giving coming before boinking.

And a definition of maleness - or just adulthood - that references obligations as much as liberties.

Well, I'm confused. After repeatedly and proudly stating that she will never live with her boyfriend, Ms. Alkon suddenly advocates picking up after someone you live with? With all due respect, what would she know about that? She lives alone.

well said, ben-david, well said

I get what she's saying here, but it goes both ways: Random acts of kindness are good for everyone. I was in the bookstore and picked up Pride and Prejudice and Zombies for my fiance, just because I thought he might like it. Last week, he saw how exhausted I was and did my chores -- cleaned the bathroom and did a sink full of dishes -- and didn't bitch about it once. During the times he works 12- to 14-hour days, I'll do something he didn't get to.

If you love someone, you don't knowingly leave a mess for them to clean. If you love someone, you don't mind cleaning up their mess every once in awhile.

Well said, Ben-David and Lynne and MonicaP!

"Ms. Alkon suddenly advocates picking up after someone you live with? With all due respect, what would she know about that? She lives alone."

Which reflects well on Ms. Alkon's wisdom, in my view.

My sweety would never even ask me to get up and make him a sandwich if he wanted one. His first course of action would be simply to get up and make it himself, and then ask me if I wanted any. Of course, I do the same when I'm popping a pizza into the oven. I bring him coffee in the morning while he's still lying in bed, but he will get up and tidy the kitchen while I'm in the bathroom getting ready for work.

We don't live together - he stays over maybe two or three times a week, and that's probably why the arrangement works so well. When I read about couples who are getting bogged down with resentment over sharing household chores, I roll my eyes and think, 'Ya just HAD to take that relationship to the NEXT LEVEL, didn't ya?' Who would want to come home to that every night?

I think there is a difference between making my husband a sandwich and picking up his dirty socks. First of all, he always asks nicely for the sandwich - never once has he said "Honey, could you go throw these socks in the hamper for me?" Probably because he would sound like a lazy bum for asking the question. And I have been on his case about this, because my kids have been picking up his bad example and leaving their popsicle sticks and other trash around the house.

There have been times that I really resented my husband leaving his clothing strewn all over the bedroom, but it's been a while now, and I'm used to it. What I've figured out is that he isn't leaving his crap on the floor because he expects me to pick it up; he's leaving it there because he doesn't care if it's there. I DO care, so I'm the one who picks it up.

At work, gender should not come into it. Women are right to refuse to make the coffee

I actually had a verbal altercation with a co-worker about this last week. He came into the break room around lunchtime and demanded that I cook his meal for him. (Any guesses as to what religion he is and what his country of origin is?) My response was that feminism starts at the building's front door and that if he can't manage to figure out how to run the microwave, then he was going to starve. He gave me a nasty look and stomped out of the room. I still don't know if he got to eat lunch that day.

If my husband came and asked me to fix his lunch, I would likely do it, mostly because I love him and he wouldn't be shitty or demanding about it (It would be, "Would you please fix my lunch?" not "Fix my lunch now!"). He does wonderful things for me, so why not return the favor?

-Julie

How come feminists have to be taught -- kicking and screaming -- what every nice, decent person already knows?

How long will it be before the male vs. female hostility intentionally engendered by feminists is washed out of our society?

I think feminism just appeals to a natural mean, selfish streak in some women (and the weakness and self-hatred of some men).

I do things like that for my husband because I love him. He doesn't understand sometimes and will make the comment "You're not my servant", but he does appreciate it. :)

I figure, since I stay home, I can keep the house clean, the laundry done, and have dinner ready for him. He goes out and earns the money. He puts up w/ the BS out there, and I don't have to. The least I can do is make our house a home for him.

Our daughter is in school now, so now I can go get a part time job, but he asked me to stay home. He knows how sick I am and how hard it would be on me. (I am not unwilling to go work) He doesn't want me to suffer any more than I already do. He asked me to stay @ because he loves me, not because it's my place or my duty.

When I am so sick that I can't do anything, he comes home, takes care of me first, and then the house. He does laundry, dishes, cleans, and he tries to cook. Again, he does this because he loves me. He'll even take our daughter out for a few hours so I can have a break. He'll do this when he's swamped w/ work and he doesn't hold it over my head at anytime.

I don't get candy or flowers from him. My birthday and our anniversary goes by unnoticed and I don't mind. My husband shows me how much he loves me every single day. He does little things, like starting my coffee pot before he leaves for work, bringing up the cat food bag because it's too heavy for me, or getting my scripts filled before I run out w/o me asking him to.

I've never understood how some of my friends feel like they have the right to bitch about their husbands forgetting anniversaries or even half annerversaries (wtf??). Do they not show their love everyday? Do they not bring home the paycheck and not bitch when their wives take a spa day or go shopping just because? I've gotten into disagreements w/ a couple of them because I've called them out on their BS.

My husband and I have an equal partnership of mutual love and respect. We're not perfect, and we do fight, but we don't ever fight about housework or money. We fight mainly about stupid shit that most people wouldn't. Honestly, our fights aren't really fights anymore, they are more like debates. Our last one, we kept score, and ended up laughing at ourselves at the end.

I also couldn't ask for a better father for our daughter. He's involved in every aspect of her life. He goes to every Dr. appt., every school function (already four and school just started yesterday!), and he'll even go shopping for her when she needs something. He works very hard to provide her with everything. He works hard to provide me with everything.

No, I don't bitch like other women, when he goes off any buys himself an expensive toy. (He'll very often bring me one home too.) He always makes sure the bills are paid first. *sigh* I could just go on and on about him, but I won't. He is the *perfect* man for me. :)

Also- Amy has stated many times, that Gregg does little things all the time for her. (Brings her dinner, does her website, etc.) People don't have to live together to have a solid, loving, and lasting relationship.

I am not a nebbish - but part of loving my wife is seeing her as an equal rather than a servant - not because she's a feminist, but because I'm a mentsch.

We do things for EACH OTHER. Again, like Esther Williams, it's because we love each other.

One thing I do is take care to not bring Gregg to parties if I don't have to. Seriously. I'm a big girl, and chatty, too, and I go alone because he's not interested in journalist chit-chat, and he's not Mr. Gladhand. About meeting people, he likes to quote Vingh Rhames from the set of Out Of Sight: "I don't want to talk to anybody I don't already know."

If I do bring him to a party, it's one where there will be somebody for him to talk to, like on Saturday, where he and my friend's Law & Order-writing husband were like two peas in a pod. Same size (big and tall), same dress -- suit jacket, even though everybody slobs it up in L.A. -- and interesting stuff in common to talk about.

Gregg will, however, come to a party where he doesn't want me to drive there or home alone.

And when he was in the hospital overnight once, I slept on his cold hospital floor when they didn't have a cot because I wasn't about to leave him alone there. (I'm good with nurses -- they get that I appreciate them and they do a lot for patients I'm there with...Cathy, in the first case, or Gregg.)

These are just things you do because you love somebody. I'm so glad I don't have to draw all these lines in the sand since I'm not a feminist.

Guys typically want a home that is functional. Women want a home that is aesthetic.
Example- A friend used to have his sister and another guy as roommates.
When she moved in she constantly picked up and kept the place neat. They didn't tell her to do it, but she felt more comfortable with the house just so. She even put out potpourri,
candles, put some carpet fresh on before vacuuming etc...
The guys had running water and the doors opened and closed that's all they really needed.
If you want the guy to pick up his socks give him a hug, a squeeze, a kiss on the cheek and a little wink for later while telling him to pick up his socks. Do it on a night you plan to make love with him. Follow through later and he will get the message loud and clear.

As for making the guy a sandwich that's your call. I'm a guy that likes to make my own but I can see where a lot of guys would appreciate it.

> not because she's a feminist,
> but because I'm a mentsch.

Manly men spell it without the T.

> he's leaving it there because
> he doesn't care if it's there.

Yessss! Yes!

You still married?

I love doing things for D. I just moved in with him and took off a few extra days from work to get settled. I cleaned the whole house and stocked the fridge with the yogurt he likes (yeah - a dude who eats Yoplait Light...).

He came home last night and made me a beautiful dinner (chicken Saltimboca!) He washed I dried. Then we went up to bed around 9 and he stayed with me until I got sleepy (I have to wake up early sometimes for work so I get to bed by 10).

Then he took off and went to the gym. He went to the gym later than he would have normally so he could stay with me b/c I fall asleep better while he's there.

Also: I'm big about "choose not to care." Like, if he leaves socks on the floor is that the end of the world? No. So if it bothers me I just let it go or deal with it myself.

"I actually had a verbal altercation with a co-worker about this last week. He came into the break room around lunchtime and demanded that I cook his meal for him. (Any guesses as to what religion he is and what his country of origin is?)"

Jayzus jumped up fiddlin christ! This was last week? Do you have other co-workers like this? Where do you live? I couldn't imagine something like this happening. And please explain how he "demanded" this - I gather it wasn't exactly phrased as a question? I mean seriously, my jaw just hit the floor. Amazing. A husband or boyfriend "demanding" things like this is one thing - but a co-worker???

Jayzus jumped up fiddlin christ!

ROFLOL! I may have to use that in my day to day language. The best one I have right now is 'ass ramming uncle fuckers' but that is more than a bit dated.

I live in Houston. My co-worker came into the break room as I was fixing my meal, he said, "You are already preparing food. Fix my lunch." (Then the container of food was thrust forward) I didn't give him the positive response that he was expecting. :-D He stomped out and then pitched a fit to me over e-mail about a project we are working on together (talk about misdirected anger!), ccing my manager. I blew a gasket on him over e-mail and my manager did the same, advising him that he needs to watch his tone toward his coworkers. My manager was more concerned about me being angry than anything. He knows that I get my work done, and do it well. This guy is the only one I have issues with. I work in technology, so I am the only woman in my group, but the other guys are a good sort (as most are) and they might joke with me about stuff like that, but it is obvious they are kidding.

Demanding boy and I are currently at a standoff. I'm treating him with the supercilious politeness that I would use on a small dull child. He is avoiding me all together to the point that he is dodging staff meetings. Thinks will likely calm down eventually. Such is the curse of working with stupid people and every office has some.

My husband would have gotten more slack, as you were alluding to. Even on his worst bad day he's never spoken to me that way, which is why I've kept him for 15 years.

-Julie

BF and I get that it's common courtesy to do things for each other, and even to do things that just need doing around the house, no matter who is "supposed" to do them. Daughter #1 now does her own laundry, and I'm trying to get #2 to follow suit, but BF usually does all the laundry that's in the hamper, when he does it. He also goes through the whole house the night before the garbage pick-up, empties all the waste baskets in the house, and puts the bins on the curb. I put out the recyle stuff. We both do yard work, cook, and clean. It's easier that way, and frees up more time to do stuff that we like. (This Sunday we're taking the girls to the USS Intrepid in New York. Should be fun!)

"...it's being enough of a person that it means something to you to make the other person happy."

Exactly! It's about doing something because it makes the other person happy. If you don't want to do small things to make the person you love happy than why even be in the relationship? I love my boyfriend and want him to be happy so I'm more than happy to do stuff to make him happy, just as he does for me.

I'm guessing he didn't enjoy changing my flat tire in 0 degree weather, but he did it instead of handing me a tire iron and saying "I'm not your slave!" So I very happily make him the occasional sandwich, get him the occasional beer, and generally treat him like an honored guest (which he is because I agree with Amy on the living together thing).

If I live with a man, its because I want to have a *man* living with me. I'm not gonna emasculate him for being one (tuna sandos, socks, toilet lids...whatever). I like to cook, and don't mind picking up here and there.

But if I start feeling like he's turning me into his mother in (ahem) other aspects of the relationship...things would need to change or the arrangement is over.

I don't know why this happens with men these days, but that is why I am happy living alone.

As far as I'm concerned this is just a no win situation as far as outsiders to the relationship will view it.

Feminists will scream about equality and not being someone's slave. Traditionalists will argue that it's a wifely duty, among others. Only a few will "get" that these are the actions of a loving spouse--no matter what the gender and that the small stuff is truly small. These are also likely the people that will still be married (or dating, whichever your preference) in 50 years.

As far as friends and family go, I've learned to keep most of this stuff to myself. Our parents think it is inhumanely cruel and a step on the road to divorce that I allow, or force (depending on how you look at it), my husband to run clothes through the laundry, wash dishes, or clean house. Some people think it's insane that I ask him to watch our daughter so I can go out to a movie with them on occasion. Very few seem to understand that he helps around the house because he wants to and this is just another way of showing he loves me. Or that I ask him prior to leaving not because I need his permission but because I'd like to know if he has other plans or needs for that day (i.e., is he planning a trip to the lumber yard for some home repairs?).

Not to mention, if you say you're married to someone like that, most people assume you're bragging or lying, possibly both. It's just easier to keep my mouth shut--in real life anyway.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing or a bunch of hooey to be upset if your spouse forgets an important date in the calendar though--yes, they may show their love in other ways but if it's something that's important to someone then it needs to be done. Obviously common sense needs to be applied here--if the spouse is under a great deal of stress at work or ill, the anniversary of your first kiss might be stretching things, but important dates like birthdays, major holidays, Mother/Father's Day are important to some people and shouldn't be forgotten. I doubt many men would be happy with the excuse "well, I show you that I love you in the way I cook, clean, and take care of you, why do you want sex on a regular basis as well? Can't you tell that I love you?" It's all about figuring out what's important to your partner and getting it done on a regular basis, plus then some. You don't get to quit just because you've given it your 50% for the day.

"You still married?"
Yes. Five years next week. Spending a long weekend in Montreal.

Julia- Please be careful of that guy! You have rights under the law if he threatens you in anyway. ( I would have construed the lunch incident as menacing esp. after the emails.) Can report him to HR for that stunt about the food? Most places would put him on notice for sexual harassment.

Most importantly- Keep a log of everything he does/says/etc around you. Maybe you can even get a webcam to set in your area and have it record to a separate hard drive. (I have a set up like that to record outside our condo.) I might be over reacting to this, but that scares me, esp. with the follow up email?! Keep the logs so he can't scream religious prosecution or whatever.

There is a family at my daughters school and the husband is very "much" the one "in charge". It made me sick to see him talk to his wife (fully clothed, from head to toe, if you get my drift) like she was a dog. He did it to his daughter too. He even tried that w/ the female principal; she just walked away from him. Heh- My husband had to "restrain" me from going off on that asshole. He reminded me we were in a school and the children probably didn't need to hear me go off. Everything about that situation made me angry enough to start screaming!

Please, please, be careful of that creep and note down every interaction. I would be willing to bet this isn't the last time he's going to start shit w/ you because your a female.

"your" should be You're. I'm off today on just about everything! Sorry.

My parents are in their late 60s, and my mom, for as long as I've remembered, has dropped whatever she is in the middle of doing as soon as my dad walks in the door, so she can do her wifely duty of fixing his supper.

I realize both halves of a couple tend to gravitate toward certain things. It works really well between my sweety and me when we take a cycling tour - he keeps the coolers stocked and I check to make sure all the bags are zipped before we ride. Little things like that.

But between my parents I just have to roll my eyes - my dad is so whiney about it, he will tell my mom to get off the phone to fix his supper if she is trying to talk to someone, and she immediately stammers apologetically and jumps to do his bidding. I think that's just rude! For crying out loud, she is on the phone, and he knows where the refrigerator and the microwave are, if he can't wait five more freakin' minutes.

So when I became an adult I just never bought into that. I did live with a boyfriend for a while, quite a number of years ago, and my mother was shocked (shocked!) that I didn't rush around fixing his supper. We each kind of made our own things and then shared with each other, and half of the time we didn't even eat at the same time.

But regarding my mom, I have to stop and consider where SHE learned it. HER mother would work her butt off, preparing a good meal on all the nice dishes. She always served iced tea. It never failed - as soon as she sat down in her seat, had her napkin on her lap, and cut into her first bite of food, Grandpa would ask, 'Got a little lemon for the tea, hon?' And she would drop her food and scurry off to the kitchen to fetch it for him. Bleh.

@Truth,

I agree and I am taking notes, but HR at this organization has a history of not being very receptive to complaints of sexual harassment or sexism. (That is something that they never mention in the job interview.) I would have to go to the EEOC or the police if things became menacing, which I am not above doing if needed. I make sure that I am not alone with him, that he doesn't know what my car looks like, and that we don't leave together. He was already on my 'creepy guy' list (men I deal with on a daily basis that give off a bad vibe) not because of his ethnicity, but he gives off a 'I'm putting on a nice front but am really an evil mother fucker' kind of vibe. Sorta like Mr. Burns from the Simpsons without the money.

I'm also playing up the idea that I am working with him and providing him all that he needs to get his stuff done. If he decides to avoid me and not do his job, he will look like the jackass.

Truth, thank you for your concern. I agree that this likely won't be the last time this problem occurs. Luckily I am in the job hunt and have a strong nibble in another organization. If that pans out, I will be able to leave this person behind.

I have a great deal of trouble with the 'almost-burkas' as well. It is rape-apology plain and simple. Not to mention that men aren't the simple minded weak spirited nimrods that these religions paint them out to be. Most men are wonderful partners, lovers, and friends.

I've often thought about creating a half-way house for people attempting to escape fundamentalist religion. I could help the 'Lost Boys', as well as women who want to be able to control their own lives. Shit, bring the kids. I just haven't worked out the logistics. I don't see being able to help many in my one bedroom apartment.

Thanks again for the concern. We are on the same page.

-Julie

"But between my parents I just have to roll my eyes - my dad is so whiney about it, he will tell my mom to get off the phone to fix his supper if she is trying to talk to someone, and she immediately stammers apologetically and jumps to do his bidding. I think that's just rude! For crying out loud, she is on the phone, and he knows where the refrigerator and the microwave are, if he can't wait five more freakin' minutes."

Are you sure we're not related? That sounds exactly like my FIL. He's a dear man, but I was once late bringing my MIL back from tea and he was sitting there complaining how hungry he was with a fully stocked refrigerator and pantry less than 30 feet away and several restaurants/fast food places within walking distance.

She also lays out his clothes for him. I love my in-laws to death but I really hope my MIL outlives my FIL because if she doesn't it'll be a rude awakening for him when he has to do all the things from himself that she currently does. Unless he can talk my SIL into doing it for him, that is.

Julie, I take it the jerk at work is either Muslim or Mormon?

@MIOnline,

Pakistani Muslim

-Julie

We both tend to fling off our clothes at night and drop 'em on the chair, so all our dirty clothes are together. When I feel motivated to do so, sometime the next day, I dump 'em in the hamper.

He's not very householdy. In fact, if we ever get a house, I'm going to have to take the basic home maintenance classes because I just don't see him doing that. Anyhow, I do the housework since I work part-time and he works full-time. Not really a huge deal, and itis fun to have him come home to a nice place!

MIOnline-
That Mormon crack was not necessary. I am not Mormon, but my neighborhood is full of them and they really are nice people and the husbands all appear to be very respectful of their wives. It may not be a lifestyle choice that we would make, BUT they are in NO WAY on the same level as those women hating bastards from the Middle East.

@SheepMommy,

I think that MIOnline was picking up on the 'Lost Boys' reference I made. In 'plural marriage' Mormon communities many young men are banished from the community to keep the ratios appropriate to allow one man to have multiple wives. Many excuses are given, but in the end it is a matter of reducing mating competition.

Just like all other religions, the very fundamentalist Mormons abuse the downtrodden and use god to force absolute power. They aren't as bad, but it is a matter of degree between forbidding women to wear pants and forbidding women to show their faces. Same logic, different degree.

-Julie

I wasn't referring to mainstream Mormons, but the ones belonging to the Fundamentalist LDS sect in SW Utah that also have some members in places like Texas. I'm familiar with Utah having passed through it several times, and would not put most Mormons on the same level as Muslims. I just thought it was possible that with Julie living in Texas that this was one of the fundamentalist varieties.

Also, I appreciate that Julie mentioned that the fundamentalist LDS sect banishes many teenage boys for trivial infractions so that the leaders can marry multiple brides. It also works against many males.

-Men's Issues Online

...he said, "You are already preparing food. Fix my lunch." (Then the container of food was thrust forward)....

Another possible response:

Take the container, put it in the microwave, set the timer for 90 minutes (or the maximum available), and walk away.

My co-worker came into the break room as I was fixing my meal, he said, "You are already preparing food. Fix my lunch."

People test your limits. You passed.

The thing is, no need to get all upset in a situation like this. Just laugh. You have more power that way.

I've been looking at Ann Coulter on TV. On the last particular CNN piece I saw her on, I found her contention on that that there's ZERO racial profiling ridiculous, but I love how she lets her opponents talk and just has a look on her face like they're absolutely stone nuts. More powerful than shouting them down.

"My parents are in their late 60s, and my mom, for as long as I've remembered, has dropped whatever she is in the middle of doing as soon as my dad walks in the door, so she can do her wifely duty of fixing his supper."

PJ, I wonder if your father or grandfather was a factory worker? My grandparents on my father's side were like that; whenever he walked in the house, she dropped whatever she was doing to go fix him a meal. My dad explained it to me some years later. My grandfather worked in a cotton mill; it was one of those typical pre-WWII deals where all of the workers lived in company-owned houses adjacent to the mill. As there was no place to eat or keep any food in the mill itself, the workers usually went home for lunch. The mill only gave them twenty minutes, so it was the wife's job to make sure lunch was ready and waiting on the table the moment he walked in the door, so that he wouldn't get docked for being late to return to work. For every five minutes you were late, you got docked an hour.

Oh, and Julie: Document, document, document.

Also, I appreciate that Julie mentioned that the fundamentalist LDS sect banishes many teenage boys for trivial infractions so that the leaders can marry multiple brides. It also works against many males.

That is the key to alot of this. Any group that will subjugate women has very little regard for men. That's why I don't stand for bad mouthing men, and I also don't stand for poor treatment of women. It is the same sickness, just different symptoms.

-Julie

"PJ, I wonder if your father or grandfather was a factory worker?"

No, he was a carpenter - he took his lunch with him to work every day, and this happened when he came home at the end of the day.

And what I find funny is this - my mom told me that early on in their marriage, she would watch the cooking shows on TV and try to make him great, creative meals, because that's what she thought women were supposed to do to please their men. My dad was a farm boy, though, and didn't really like trying those new things. He preferred to eat things he already knew he would like. So her effort was sort of lost on him, and also his schedule was such that he didn't always come home at the same time every evening. If he finished a job during the day, for example, he would take the extra hour to load all his tools in the truck and bring them home, because that saved him a trip back to the site the next day.

That would make her mad, because she was going through this whole elaborate process that had to be timed just right, and him coming home an hour late would ruin it. So he told her he didn't need to eat those fancy things and would prefer to eat simpler food anyway. From then on she wouldn't start any supper until he came home, at which point she would hang up on whoever she was talking to or drop whatever she was doing, and rush around to fix him something. And that's pretty much how it's been ever since.

Last week I was talking to her on the phone, and he took the phone away from her and told me I had to let my mother off the phone because she needed to fix his supper. I just laughed at him, and asked if he was going to let her take the hijab off long enough so that she wouldn't dip it in the gravy. That just led to him grumping and harrumphing at me for a while, which of course was my goal all along. :-) I could hear my mom in the background talking about how oppressed she was - it was funny.

Pirate Jo,

I am glad your parents are still married. You, apparently, are not. Maybe you will succeed in sowing the seeds of discontent and strife? Good luck, you strong, modern woman, you.

I've never been married. Sowing the seeds of discontent and strife? You mean in my parents' marriage? You have got to be kidding me. My dad loves it when I give him shit. He even tries to be deliberately inflammatory about it, telling me that waiting on him is my mother's job and so forth. It's all done with a laugh, and is part of the game. My parents seem pretty happy, and I get along well with both of them.

Jay R is one of those types that demand their woman be:

* barefoot, pregnant and preparing supper for their man

and of course always VERY deferential to his superiority and authority. A husband is like GOD to his wife, right Jay R? My god you sound like a paleolithic man.

"My god you sound like a paleolithic man."

I'm pretty sure paleolithic men didn't have access to such a wide variety of canned rants about feminism, and yet Jay R figured out how to find the americanwomensuck website all by himself. He's downright cosmopolitan by comparison. So watch who you're calling paleolithic! Paleolithic men didn't even know how to click a mouse.

Leave the poor paleolithic men out of this! Is there even any evidence that they were brutish?

PJ, that story is hilarious! Anyway, the only point I wanted to make is that your parents have, as you realize, long since fallen into a pattern that works for them. Even if it looks weird to other people. Who am I to judge?

I'll tell you another funny one. You mentioned the taste for "plain" foods. Where I live, I see a lot of that. My stepfather used to be a salesman. He was on the road a lot, and he spent a lot of time entertaining clients at fancy restraunts, eating fancy dinners. One might think that would lead him to expect fancy meals at home, but just the opposite -- when he was home, he only wanted basic meat 'n potatoes. Which was fine with my mom, since fancy cooking was never one of her favorite pastimes.

Crusader, regarding my on-topic comments, welcome to the "Ad hominem attack because I've got nothing of actual substance to say" club! (Pirate Jo, will you move down one seat to make room, please?) The meeting of the "Here's a strawman, let's flame him!" club will be meeting next, so you should both stick around.

"Paleolithic"? Ok! After due consideration, I like it! "Like a God" to her? Well, I don't like to brag ... ;)

Seriously, if you would like to respond substantively to something I've posted, I would welcome your reasoned criticisms or rebuttal.

Pirate Jo, slight misunderstanding: I got the impression from your post that you were not glad that your parents are still married. I was not guessing as to your marital status. You had not made it clear that it was all in fun for everyone -- but had given exactly the opposite impression; that you were having fun at your parents', and especially your father's, expense. Frankly, I remain unconvinced, but am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Call me whatever names you will, and seek to shame me into silence if you feel you must, but the theme you will see running through my posts is support of family and marriage, and hostility to anything which harms those institutions.

Is Pirate Jo gonna hafta smackabitch? Watch yo'self at the ATM, Jay R.