Why The Spanish-Accented Businessman Is Yammering Into His Phone At Starbucks
I told him I also have business conversations to make -- and I make them at home because I don't want to bother anyone.
"Maybe I can't talk at home," he told me.
"Why not?"
"Because when I'm home, my time is for my 2-year-old."
So, because you reproduced, the rest of us have to listen to your boring heehawing about the pharmacy business?
Apparently, yes. He started shouting at me, something along the lines of "Thank you, thank you, I have nothing more to say to you!" (If that's the case, why do you keep shouting "Thank you, thank you...etc.?)
So...this guy is supposedly in business, yet he doesn't seem to understand that ethical business means paying for the costs of your own business, not making others pay with their attention -- so you can (apparently) save money on an office.
Well, our attention doesn't belong to you, pharmacy dude.
I was waiting for him to give out a phone number so I could post it -- although, when I was explaining why it's rude to force others at Starbucks to listen to your cell phone conversations, I told him that I've blogged them before. (If you're going to publicly yammer information, it's obviously not information you want to keep private. And maybe if it becomes public, you'll act more considerately in the future -- simply out of the realization that public cell phone conversations are exactly that: public outputs of information.)
Then, I looked over and laughed -- the guy had his business card, with his name and company name big enough to read from where I was sitting, about six feet away, pasted on his laptop.
He's Ben Singer, of Farmacia Remedios. I got an earful about his business -- you can, too!
Ben is talking about doing the right thing in the community. Heh. They put "services and the community before profits." Double heh.
Let's review what was apparently going on here: It costs him to have an office, so he makes bigger profits by making people listen to him do his business at Starbucks.
Meanwhile...
Crid [CridComment @ gmail] at August 31, 2009 6:26 AM
Was he yelling in his phone? Talking too loud?
Here's how I feel about it. Just like anyone in a coffee shop, keep your chats to yourself. Other than that, I don't care if you chat on the phone or not. I don't want to hear 2 people talking too loud, face to face either! It's annoying and rude. Same goes for someone on the phone. If you are chatting at a conversational level, then fine...go nuts even on the phone. Just don't disturb others.
I was once in an airport and a young man was talking to his girlfriend too loud on the phone. Rude, yes. An older man came over and rudely told him to shut up and that nobody wanted to hear his conversation. True - but the old guy was embarassingly rude. The young guy APOLOGIZED and explained that he was away from his wife for a month. He then went into a corner and talked quietly to her on the phone. The old man continued to be upset and complained to the airline attendant saying the the kid was trouble and should be watched (presumably because he was still on the phone against the older guys wishes). My point? Now that the kid was quietly chatting in the corner, disturbing nobody...WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL???
Karen at August 31, 2009 7:32 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1665579">comment from KarenYour brain forces you to listen to a one-sided conversation in a way it doesn't to a two-sided conversation. There's actual research on this, which I detail in my book. I explained this politely to the guy, who had not the slightest interest in the world that I just wanted to hear the music at Starbucks and take in the environment, not be party to his business yammering. I also am careful not to talk too loudly in a public place, as people don't want to have your personal business inserted into their lives. It's not fair, not considerate, and not nice. I was very polite to the guy, but he clearly didn't care that my attention doesn't belong to him. Doing what he's doing is the same as playing a boom box in a public place.
Amy Alkon at August 31, 2009 7:47 AM
What Karen said. The issue is the volume of the guy's voice, not the fact that he's talking into a phone.
It's true that he might be giving out information that he'd really rather keep private, but a)that's his problem, not yours, and b)he could do that in a face-to-face conversation too, if he didn't keep his voice down.
Rex Little at August 31, 2009 7:50 AM
Another fight-the-power story via McArdle.
Crid [CridComment @ gmail] at August 31, 2009 8:46 AM
"Your brain forces you to listen to a one-sided conversation in a way it doesn't to a two-sided conversation"
So? Does that mean you have no control over your brain? Also, the research does not explain why we are "forced" to listen. Perhaps it's because we feel compelled to listen in on other peoples conversations (particulary if we are alone) and a one sided conversation needs more attention in order to understand? Thus, the brain works harder and differently to eavesdrop on the conversation. I don't see how this is the problem of the "talker"...I would see it as a problem with the "listener".
What would you do if there were 2 people having a conversation and one person was speaking at a conversational level and another whispering responses? Lean over and tell the whisperer that it's rude to "force" your brain to listen to them?
Sorry - I still deem quiet phone calls in public places to be strange, but not rude.
Karen at August 31, 2009 9:00 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1665608">comment from KarenYour brain, from what I've read, wants to fill in the missing side of the conversation. No, we do not have control over stuff like this. The guy, furthermore, was talking in the tone I talk in when pacing my living room -- making points, selling ideas, rather forcefully. If I wanted to have my afternoon commandeered by somebody's dull business conversations, I'd go sit in a busy office to have coffee and a sandwich, instead of going to Starbucks. He was rude, I was bothered by having to listen to this stuff, and he didn't care in the slightest. It's the same if somebody's talking so loudly to a friend that everyone is forced to hear their conversation.
A similar example: My dog is trained not to bark when she's outside. If she starts barking (say, if somebody knocks on my neighbor's gate, I run right out and get her and bring her inside. Nobody in my neighborhood should have their nap or their reading or their quiet enjoyment of their apartments interrupted because I choose to have a pet.
Amy Alkon at August 31, 2009 9:45 AM
Karen can you regulate your heartbeat by thought? can you old your breath until you die? can you swallow a hotdog and mentally compel your stomach to not digest it?
Your brain is an organ like any other and as such it has involentary functions beyond your consious control
lujlp at August 31, 2009 10:10 AM
Usually I do not talk on my phone while shopping or running errands. When speaking to my friends, I like to be able to concentrate on our conversation, not what's on sale in Aisle 4. I think people forget sometimes when absorbed in a conversation that people are around and can hear what they are saying.Depending on where it is, if its a conversational tone, I don't mind. If its in someplace where relaxation is a goal, or they are very loud then it is rude. I'm not one to blast my personal business to my fellow shoppers or diners, but there are many who feel this need. Maybe they think they are on their own reality show.
Kristen at August 31, 2009 10:14 AM
My husband works for a defense contractor. He is required to have his work cell on him at all times. He is required to answer it if rings. He is, essentially, on call 24/7. (Those 4 am calls are no fun!)
He is always very mindful of where he is when he answers the phone. He puts down his food/drink/ what have you if he is out and walks out to the car. It takes but a moment to say please hold while I go somewhere private. He does in the store, at the coffee shop, and everywhere else. He'll even go to the back bedroom when he's at home. Not because what he does is classified, but because it is the polite thing to do.
There really is no need to have a conversation in public when there are bathrooms, cars, hallways, etc.. available! Manners have become forgotten. I've noticed that most people on cells speak very loudly. It's like they've forgotten how to control their voices. You don't have to shout in the phone to be heard, and if it's a bad connection, hang up and go somewhere else!
I can understand if it's an emergency, but do I or anyone else, really need to know about little Susies ballet lesson? Oh and the blue tooth devices drive me nutters! I've been embarrassed because I've assumed someone was talking to me when they've really been talking on the phone. I had no way to tell. I couldn't see the device and the person was looking right at me.
I've been known to confront ppl over that. Rude of me? Probably, but if someone doesn't speak up, the problem will only get worse. I wish I had the $ to buy enough copies of manners and etiquette to hand out to everyone I run across.
Truth at August 31, 2009 10:23 AM
Yes - it makes sense that your brain is trying to fill in the missing converation. What I don't understand is why that theory is used as a argument. So - we should deem one sided conversations rude becauuuuuusse, the non-partisan cannot properly listen in and has to actually THINK about the conversation? And this is the fault of the talker? Nope. Not a logical argument to me.
And lujlp is trying to say that eavesdropping on other people conversations is completely uncontrollable. We are biologically hard wired to do this all of the time and cannot stop. Ever.
Still - not finding it rude that some people may sit in a coffee shop and quietly talk on the phone. Read...quietly. Amy has only now mentioned the volume from this man in the shop, which would have made the problem clear to me from the beginning. It's the volume, not the cell phone.
Yesterday I was playing tennis next to some younger people who were yelling at eachother as they played. I had to tell them to be quiet too. Same problem.
Karen at August 31, 2009 11:25 AM
Yes, cell phones are noisome. Still, this is a huge country. Trying to fix cell-phone rudeness in singualr confrontations is like stepping on ants in your house to stop an infestation.
Save your energy. Tomorrow there will be another cell-phoner blabbing away.
I am surprised at your lack of perspective. Even your book will accomplish nothing. There are etiquette books on the market already.
Take a vacation, or shack up with a rich guy, and enjoy what you can.
i-holier-than-thou at August 31, 2009 11:43 AM
Here is an interesting side note to this line of conversation. My husband and I were out to dinner yesterday and a friend of ours (who also works at the restaurant) was on break and sat down to chat with us. He was telling us a story about walking up to a table that appeared to have 3 men sitting at it, and when he said, "Welcome gentlemen" he noticed that one of the 'men' was actually a woman. The companion of the woman motioned to her chest and said, "In case you didn't notice, this person has breasts, she isn't a man". Our server friend laughed and they had a good meal, no harm. When our friend finished the story, we chatted jokingly about it for a short while, not being vulgar, just talking about how it is sometimes difficult these days to tell women from men. A woman, sitting with two kids and a husband at the other end of the room heard the word 'breasts' and got all huffy said,
"EXCUSE ME, EXCUSE ME, That is very offensive."
Our server friend 'apologized', we moved on to other topics and wrapped up our chat. If we had been on our own, and not in our friends place of work, I might have made more of a fuss (told her that if she didn't like free speech, we have other countries she can move to) but I didn't want to fuck up someone's livelihood.
In this conversation, we used the word breasts once or twice, but not excessively and we certainly didn't say other more derogatory words such as titties, man catchers, sweater monkeys, yogurt catchers or anything else.
This is a long way of saying that cell phones irritate me more than other conversations, but the best option is to just MYOB and stay out of people's business. If people want to disclose personal information over the phone, then they have the option, and they will be fucked up because of it. However, I don't know that one should have the expectation of peace and quiet in the middle of the local Starbucks. I am more concerned that this guy is in the medical profession and making business calls in public. That is a violation of HIPAA if he was even discussing anything about patient treatment or who was being treated.
-Julie
Julie at August 31, 2009 12:45 PM
When you confront a loud celler/talker just be ready for a fight.
There are plenty of ways to get your point across. A personal air-horn/klaxon is an excellent device to ruin their conversation. Same with a portable alarm. A pocket digital voice recorder is handy. You record some of the cell conversation and then play it back repeatedly at the same volume, especially if they say something they don't want repeated. Just the act of putting the recorder near enough to capture their words should result in their lowering their volume.
Jay J. Hector at August 31, 2009 1:39 PM
I think the vilification of the concept of "profit" is disgusting.
DavidJ at August 31, 2009 9:34 PM
I think the vilification of the concept of "profit" is disgusting.
I think you don't get it. I'm a capitalist. Forcing me to pay your cost of doing business with my attention is theft. He should factor in his need for an office instead of boring people with yammering about his business that is quite audible and irritating from about six feet away. That's ethical business in my book. Perhaps I should give you an example by standing outside your window playing my electric guitar for donations?
PS In case anyone's worried, I don't actually have an electric guitar, and people would only pay me to go away.
Amy Alkon at August 31, 2009 11:16 PM
I don't know that one should have the expectation of peace and quiet in the middle of the local Starbucks.
I'm not looking for "peace and quiet" -- in fact, I like people a lot, and like being in a social environment. The guy was the antithesis of a social person. Do you above who seem to be defending a string of business phone calls in Starbucks think it's enjoyable to drink your coffee and read while some guy is hammering away on the phone? It's very different than nice social conversation between two people. Very unpleasant.
Amy Alkon at August 31, 2009 11:20 PM
Amy I think you would love Japan and Korea too a little. Travelling on the bus on the subway in Japan is so amazing as everyone does not talk. Little bit more noisy in Korea but at times it can be a little quiet. Still I think you would be surprised at the behavior in Japan.
I have noticed most Koreans are very quite on the phone. True you do get the loud talker at times but very polite at times. True they can be very rude at other times. You have never met an Adjuma(older grandmother korean woman) until you get in her way trying to get on a bus.
Also with the technology and the abilities of cellphone I amazed people have to yell.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2122-lipreading-cellphone-silences-loudmouths.html
John Paulson at September 1, 2009 3:04 AM
Amy,
You need to be fair.
1) I was not yammering into my phone. I was talking, having a conversation with my earpiece and mouthpiece on. The fact that you had just confronted me very aggressively made me that more self aware, thus my tone was even lower than any normal conversation.
2) You were not polite at all. You were so loud and angry from the get-go that the SBUX attendant asked you to take it outside after you had called me an asshole.
3) You were livid and furious due to the fact that I did not agree with you.
I feel terrible that my three minute conversation would make you feel this way. It was never my intention to ruin your day.
If you are interested, I'd love to get together and tell you more about what we do at Farmacia for the uninsured and unserved communities in the health/pharmacy sector.
I am usually at SBUX on Lincoln and Washington about three-four times per week between 6 and 7 as I stop on my way home from the office to do one last round of emails and calls before going home to be a 100% husband and a father of two.
Who wants to be on the phone when one can be with their children and lovely wife???
An finally, as I left SBUX I could not help look at the title of the book you were reading. It really bothered me having to drive home unable to think about anything else other than what could be the content of the book as a whole. Being able to only read the title is unfair--- Just kidding!
Life is short, enjoy.
Ben Singer at September 1, 2009 9:51 AM
My basic motto is "live and let live" unless someone is being abusive, violent, or threatening. I don't think being on a cell phone in a starbucks would cross that line for me.
I can also read upside down (helpful in many situations, including the boss' office) and have learned a lot following one-sided conversations. It's a way to keep my mind occupied.
doug at September 1, 2009 3:47 PM
Amazing... that you would take the time to complain about this guy.
What was the point of noting his "Spanish-Accented". Did you find his accent sexy?
Personally I find Spanish men very attractive and perhaps the fact that he did not take a second look at you made you mad?
After looking him up, it appears that he is Mexican. Oh my!
I'll have to go seek him out at starbucks.
Betty at September 1, 2009 4:27 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1665852">comment from BettyDid you find his accent sexy?
Very, actually. It's a pity such a handsome man is such an inconsiderate asshole.
I take the time to "complain" about this guy in the way I did in hopes of deterring others from being rude like he was. They won't stop being rude because they're going to suddenly develop concern for other human beings that they didn't have; they'll do it because they don't want their conversations (and themselves) to appear on the Internet.
What was the point of noting that he was "Spanish-accented"? Um...it describes him. Would you avoid describing me as a redhead...perhaps in hopes of avoiding being "hair-ist"? I get that's what you're getting at and it creeps me out, the assumption that I'm somehow something-ist.
I'm reminded of the guy who, at 2 in the morning, after he and his buddies were shouting outside my house, and I told him they were "badly raised," asked if I said that because they're Asian.
I was dumbfounded.
"No," I said. "Because you're loud, inconsiderate assholes."
Perhaps you confused my site with the Daily Kos?
Amy Alkon at September 1, 2009 5:39 PM
Amy,
I don't understand why you are so concerned with ethics and belief you have a right to judge other people's behavior and, yet, you can curse at people freely and call them "assholes." How is that morally superior? I don't understand?
Sarah
Sarah at September 1, 2009 9:46 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1665882">comment from SarahAs my late friend Cathy Seipp said when somebody accused her of making "value judgments"; "I have values, therefore I make judgments."
As for calling an asshole an asshole, what would you have me call him, a petunia?
No, I'm not prissy about language. In fact, if you read Pinker's book, The Stuff of Thought, you'll read how swear words garner much more attention than others. In other words, it's actually more prudent to call an asshole an asshole than a petunia.
But, do tell! What would your suggestion be to call a man who thinks others' attention belongs to him?
Amy Alkon at September 1, 2009 11:42 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1665883">comment from Ben SingerBen gets creative: "You were so loud and angry from the get-go that the SBUX attendant asked you to take it outside after you had called me an asshole."
Quite untrue. The Starbucks manager said that, not to me, but to both of us, after YOU started yelling at me, "Thank you! Thank you!" and kept saying you were done talking to me. Yet you kept shouting that at me. It's then that I called you an asshole. Rightfully so. I missed your comment before I answered the other woman's because I saw it first in my software view (rather than blog view). I told you I was bothered -- I wanted to read my book while I ate, but I was forced to listen to Farmacia business as you kept making calls. Thanks so much. Can I get my 20-plus (not three) minutes back?
Your conversation was not quiet -- you were talking in the same tone people talk in to do business when they pace an office.
I didn't confront you aggressively -- in fact, I was anything but, because that usually doesn't motivate people to be more considerate...which was my goal (until I saw that your intention was to selfishly continue yammering despite my telling you it was bothering me).
I first politely explained the reason a one-sided conversation seizes attention in a way a two-sided one does not. You still didn't care that you were bothering me (talking loudly enough that I could hear you very clearly six-plus feet away); you apparently only care that you don't have to rent an office because most people will sit there and let themselves be hammered by your business talk because they aren't accustomed to standing up for themselves or because they're so used to being treated like victims by cell phone rudesters.
Why did I get to Starbucks as late as I did? Because I had a lot of phone calls to make! I wouldn't DREAM of taking over a public space with them like you did. It's a shared space, and, in my mind, that means you need to be considerate; that you don't get to seize it as your own as you did.
It's like the example I gave of my dog. She is not allowed to bark. I only let her go outside when I'm right there to bring her in, and if she does bark, I run right out and pick her up and bring her inside. I live close to other people and I think it's unfair that they would have their reading or sleep or peaceful enjoyment of their apartments interrupted because I have a pet.
Amy Alkon at September 1, 2009 11:49 PM
Amy,
I do not wish nor have the time to enter a pissing contest.
You win.
Enjoy life.
Ben
Ben Singer at September 2, 2009 10:18 AM
Amy,
I do not wish nor have the time to enter a pissing contest.
You win.
Enjoy life.
ps. Thank you for the free publicity.
Ben
Ben Singer at September 2, 2009 10:19 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1665970">comment from Ben SingerAmy, I do not wish nor have the time to enter a pissing contest. You win.
I only "win" -- and lots of people will in turn -- if what you take out of this is that other people's attention doesn't belong to you, and you stop yammering on about your business and forcing people to listen to it in shared spaces.
Amy Alkon at September 2, 2009 10:44 AM
I don't see a problem with asking someone who's talking too loudly (in either a one or two-sided conversation) in a public place to bring it down a bit. Of course, one never knows what kind of response you'll get from said person, people being the different...well, people that they are. Sometimes you get a murmured apology, sometimes you get an obstinate clot who starts to tout "freedom of speech" at you and starts talking louder.
However, there's a fine line between people who are simply trying to ask this one person to tone down their conversation, and the people who consciously set out to improve the world one person at a time by making a massive stink at every person who would dare use a phone in public.
Sometimes people vassilate from one side of the line to the other many times in the course of the day.
Don't you also have pre-printed cards that you put under the wipers of SUVs that excoriate the driver for owning such a devilish behemoth of ecologic destruction?
Maybe...MAYBE you had as much of a chip on your shoulder as you maintain he did? This time?
Vinnie Bartilucci at September 2, 2009 10:48 AM
Sometimes I learn some wonderul things in overheard conversations in stores. Sitting in a Mickey D's next to three hard-ass looking "urban youths", I heard one start to recite poetry to his friends. Not boisterous braggy rap lyrics, really heartfelt free verse stuff, about his life and how he had to be strong and carry on. As I left, I leaned over to him and complimented him on his work. He positively BEAMED at me and said "Thank you, sir". Nice moment.
Haven't picked up any stock tips, tho. Maybe I just done eat at the right places for that.
Vinnie Bartilucci at September 2, 2009 10:52 AM
ps. Thank you for the free publicity.
Although I don't know if I completely agree with Amy, I can tell you what impact you've had on me about your business. You are a person in health care making business calls in a public place loudly enough that someone 6 feet away can hear your conversation. That reeks of a lack of concern for patient confidentiality. I personally wouldn't do business with you if you allowed me to bowl you down Sunset first.
-Julie
Julie at September 2, 2009 10:54 AM
Dear Julie,
The conversation I had was regarding:
a) Total number of drugstores in CA
b) Total revenues
c) Percent owned by chains, mass retailers, independents, etc.
d) Location
All with the goal of opening additional pharmacies in undeserved communities.
The offer I made to Amy, I make to you. I'll be happy to discuss with you FR's business model any time. Coffee is on me.
It would be unethical and unprofessional to discuss patient information with someone else other than the patient him or herself (HIPPA).
What makes you think I was speaking about someone?
Please note that if Amy had 'heard' my converstation as loud as she clims, what is holding her back from printing it on her blog?
As she mentioned, she was waiting for me to issue a phone number so she could post. Had I divulged patient information, it would have been music to her ears.
What is preventing her from posting my whole conversation? Perhaps she did not hear a pip.
-- Ben Singer
Ben Singer at September 2, 2009 11:18 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1665994">comment from Ben SingerBen, you're funny! Just like when you kept shouting, "Thank you, thank you!" and saying you were done talking to me (Um, then why don't you just stop talking?), you're baaaaaack!
I didn't post your conversation because I didn't take notes. I didn't feel like it. It was boring as all get out. And you droned on and on and on, making a number of calls -- yet you say you talked for "three minutes" above. Creepy that you lie.
I don't care to discuss your business model. I proofread a friend's doctoral dissertation on underserved populations and lots more of his studies, too. Haven't seen him for a long time, but he just reads in coffeehouses, and silently, so it doesn't bother others, yet he manages to help rather vast populations of people get medical care with his work.
I have no beef with you as a person providing that you behave more considerately in the future. In a shared space, don't take it over as if it belongs to you. Your right to yammer your business conversations into your phone in Starbucks ends where others' ears begin. If you can't reproduce and maintain a family life without going out and annoying people with your business conversations, perhaps you should have used birth control.
Amy Alkon at September 2, 2009 12:31 PM
A long discussion here...
I agree that people are free to talk as they please as long as they don't bother the one next to you.
Amy's last response makes little sense!!!
It appears that Ben has told her that she has won as he is not interested in a pissing contest.
However, on her last post, Amy is addressing him directly when Ben's last post was not addressed to her but to Julie.
Amy, he has conceded defeat. Is this not enough?
Perhaps you are the one that should shut up?
AMY HERE: This is signed "Patsy Hess," but posted from the same IP Ben Singer posted from...looks like Verizon mobile broadband.
Patsy Hess at September 2, 2009 12:48 PM
Amy,
You are one rude chick.
Bringing family, birth control and getting personal is nothing but rude.
He did mention coming home from his office and making one last stop before going home to his family where he can be 100% focused on them. This is very respectable.
On the other hand you sound bitter, rude and obnoxious.
I don't know you but if I had to bet, I would put my money down that you are single or divorced (hopefully no kids) and so angry that no man has welcomed you in his life for good.
Get a clue.
--Carol K.
AMY HERE: This is signed "Carol K. Connor," but posted from the same IP Ben Singer posted from...looks like Verizon mobile broadband.
Carol K. Connor at September 2, 2009 12:54 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1666006">comment from Carol K. ConnorBut, isn't that correct? If you can't have a family without making other people's public spaces a space you take over with your business conversations, perhaps you shouldn't have a family?
I didn't get a dog until I lived in a place where my neighbors wouldn't be bothered, and until I could be sure I could handle any medical expense that arose for her -- also, that I'd be home a reasonable amount of the time, so she wouldn't be all alone.
Gotta love a woman who calls me rude, but says this:
On the other hand you sound bitter, rude and obnoxious. I don't know you but if I had to bet, I would put my money down that you are single or divorced (hopefully no kids) and so angry that no man has welcomed you in his life for good.
Thanks, but while I don't personally believe in marriage, I have a sweet and wonderful boyfriend of seven years (can't imagine us not being together), who shot the lovely photo you see on the left. Haven't said a mean word to him in seven years. He doesn't deserve it. Then again, he's exceptionally courteous and the kind of guy you can count on to do the right thing, even when nobody's looking.
I don't have kids of my own, but I have nine children I'm friends with. I write and mail my friend Heather's autistic son S. letters from the cheetahs and elephants because he's a wonderful little boy and it makes him happy. Yes, I'm a bitter old crow!
What I am is one person who refuses to be victimized by those who take over shared spaces as if they're their own office or living room -- and a person who encourages others to follow my lead.
Enough is enough. Got business yammering to do on the phone? I did this morning. Guess where I still am -- in my home, where the only creature I might bother is my dog -- if she isn't snoring loudly enough while sleeping in the laundry basket in my bedroom.
P.S. I exercise on a bike in front of the TV. Times are really tough now in newspapers, but it was getting hot out and I wanted to leave my door open while exercising yet not bother my neighbors with the sound of my TV, which needs to be kind of loud to be heard over the bike. I spent $34 on a headphones/transmitter setup so the TV can be on silent and my door can be open and my neighbors will not have to hear anything but the sound of their thoughts.
Amy Alkon at September 2, 2009 1:10 PM
Ahrrr you are so annoying.
AMY HERE: This is signed "Frank K," but posted from the same IP Ben Singer posted from...looks like Verizon mobile broadband.
Frank K at September 2, 2009 2:21 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1666028">comment from Frank KAhrrr you are so annoying.
Why, because people are forced read my thoughts as I silently make my way through a book in coffee shop?
Hmm...I smell a made-up person or two in these ranks. Yes, looks that way!
You are so...not too clever, Ben Singer!
Yes, it seems Ben Singer is also posting as Carol K. Conner, Patsy Hess, and Frank K. They're all from the very same IP address -- which looks like Verizon mobile broadband.
So...unless there are four actual people sharing the same laptop, it seems he posts posts this conciliatory stuff in his actual name...and then he sneaks back and posts little nasties under fake names.
Not that this is unexpected. A guy who couldn't care less whether his business conversations he has in a shared space are bothering anyone can be expected to behave like this.
Ick.
Amy Alkon at September 2, 2009 2:28 PM
Yep!
There are several of us in the same office who could not believe this ridiculous incident when Ben told us about it.
We had to log in and read... to our surprise you do exist.
So you may get additional comments. There are 97 people in the company.
Cheers.
Juan at September 2, 2009 3:12 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1666071">comment from JuanYep! There are several of us in the same office who could not believe this ridiculous incident when Ben told us about it. We had to log in and read... to our surprise you do exist. So you may get additional comments. There are 97 people in the company. Cheers.
Shockingly, you all agree with the boss!
Tonight, I went to another Starbucks, and sat next to a guy (John G.) I know from way back in L.A., and he got a phone call. Guess what he did? He went outside and took his call. Why? He didn't want to bother anyone. There's a gentleman.
So...you think it's nice and polite for somebody to take over a shared space with their business calls? Or the guy pays your salary, and then, you, like so many other people, are so used to being victimized by rude people yammering into their cell phones in public places that you just roll over like dead sheep?
What's crazy is how it's seen as crazy to expect people to be considerate. What's disgusting is that I told Ben I wanted to read my book, and that his calls were bothering me, and he didn't care in the slightest. How is yammering business calls different from playing a boom box in Starbucks? Or outside your window at midnight. Hey, free country, huh?
Yes, the land of the free is now the land of the free to be rude. Lead the way, Ben Singer!
By the way, can 97 people really be on a single IP address? And if so, do you pay Verizon for that?
Amy Alkon at September 2, 2009 9:07 PM
Dear Amy
"Shockingly, you all agree with the boss!"
Nope. Not all of us agree with Ben. Only 4 of them do. Ben agrees with me and the other 92.
Personally I don’t like people speaking loudly on their phones. If it bothers me, I tell them and in most cases, people are very understanding. Why wouldn’t hey be?
We are not victimized at all. We work for Farmacia at will and company turnover is less than 1%. Go figure.
We know Ben for many years and we believe that if you had only asked him politely to please take the call outside, or to speak softly as to avoid bothering other people, you would have gotten your message across.
Instead you ranted, vented, insulted him, and totally lost your cool. When people lose their cool, they tend to act irrationally and I think this is what happened to you.
Ben is a reasonable man and you had your chance.
If you run into him again, as he often stops at starbucks and if you behave professionally, I am sure Ben will listen.
This advice comes to you not from a self-proclaimed goddess but from someone who knows how to get the best out of people.
Cheers,
Laura at September 3, 2009 9:13 AM
"By the way, can 97 people really be on a single IP address?"
If it's an IP connected to a network, absolutely. Usually you get one "real" IP number from your ISP, and inside your network you give the machines internal IP numbers. The web requests, emails, posts to blogs, etc, all look like they're coming from that one external IP. There's a lot of ways to set up a network, but that's a common occurrence. And in those cases, very rarely is there a fee for having X number of people share the connection, but may result in a higher charge for the amount of data downloaded. So there's likely nothing nefarious or chiseling about it.
Now if your search shows that a mobile IP as would be assigned to a laptop card, yeah it is a bit harder to explain.
Vinnie Bartilucci at September 3, 2009 11:43 AM
The popular term for what you think/assume the guy is doing is called "Sock-puppeting", BTW.
Vinnie Bartilucci at September 3, 2009 11:44 AM
Sorry to triple post, but the guy does seem to have a pretty good company. They're a pharmacy chain that opens in hispanic areas and bends over backwards to service the mid and lower class areas.
Here's a couple tinyfied links I found about them (delete if you feel the need) http://tinyurl.com/lufk5x
http://tinyurl.com/malaza
So while he may or may not have talked too loud in the Starbucks, he does seem to be doing good things in the heath care area, remarking that a LOT of his customers have no insurance and they help them anyway.
Tho if you want to keep stirring the pot, while I found several articles about his company and him, I couldn't find any references for Carol Connor or Patsy Hess.
Vinnie Bartilucci at September 3, 2009 12:00 PM
>Amy,
>You are one rude chick.
Heh. This from a guy who takes over public spaces with his cell phone convos.
Monica M. at September 5, 2009 2:36 PM
Amy,
I must agree with you. Cel phone usage can be annoying.
However, your approach was less than cordial.
I've looked you up and read some of your work as well as watched some of your youtube videos. It appears that you work at being a nag and seem to be doing a great job.
And yes, I am in the same office and we all use the same ISP and yes, it is paid for.
Now, here is a question for advice: I have a four month old that cries at times, specially when he is suffering from tummy pains.
If I am out and about, how do I shut her up as not to bother anyone in the least bit. I can just imagine how rude this must be.
Chela
Chela at September 6, 2009 9:17 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1666566">comment from ChelaI have a four month old that cries at times, specially when he is suffering from tummy pains. If I am out and about, how do I shut her up as not to bother anyone in the least bit. I can just imagine how rude this must be.
Stay home until you can be out in public without bothering people. Amazing concept, huh? My friend Hillary had a rambunctious little boy, now a lovely kid in his late teens, and she stayed out of restaurants and public places with him until he was public-ready.
Amy Alkon at September 6, 2009 10:23 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1666567">comment from Amy AlkonPS An example from my own life. I live in an old Craftsman cottage, with a big, lovely porch. I would love to eat dinner out there with my boyfriend. It would be romantic and relaxing. Why don't I? He tends to speak loudly, and really any conversations out there will bleed over into the lives of my neighbors in the apartment court just on the other side of my fence. So, I worked out there editing some stuff yesterday, by myself, but we sit on my couch indoors when he's over so as not to disturb people's thoughts, reading, or quiet enjoyment of their apartments.
Amy Alkon at September 6, 2009 10:26 AM
Glad to see you made it on to Sunday's NY Times.
Congrats!
Ben and Farmacia Remedios crew.
Ben Singer at November 17, 2009 9:34 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1677880">comment from Ben SingerJust wondering, Ben, have I made an impact on your public phoning?
Amy Alkon at November 18, 2009 12:38 AM
Amy,
You for sure, did make an impact.
I guess I am more aware of other people speaking but I don't seem to be bothered by it.
Hope all is well and if I see you next, I'll be sure to say hi.
Be well and hope the NYT article will help out.
Good luck.
Ben Singer at November 18, 2009 8:20 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1678051">comment from Ben SingerThanks, Ben. Just wondering if you've changed your behavior at all -- become more concerned about bothering others when they have to hear you do your business in public, stopped doing it, etc.?
Amy Alkon at November 18, 2009 8:26 PM
Amy,
Not really... I continue to do my calls as need be. Usually one or two.
Needless to say, I see more people using public places as work areas which I think is great.
Have you been to the SBUX in MDR? Looks like an office.
Be well.
Ben
Ben Singer at November 19, 2009 10:46 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1678212">comment from Ben SingerSo, you don't care that people have to listen to you do your business - you act like their attention belongs to you, just as you did to me. I wanted to read my book, but instead I was forced to listen to and be a party to your business stress. This is shared space, not space one person gets to hog as their own. You justify it by alluding to other people being rude? And you think it's "great"? How ugly.
You say you're all about "the community." Aren't I "the community," and aren't all the people forced to listen to your business when they'd surely rather hear the music or read their book? At least put out some videos that aren't just talk. Clearly, you're very much about Ben! Ben! Ben!
Amy Alkon at November 20, 2009 12:53 AM
Just came across this response and you remain angry and bitter.
The videos out there were not placed by me with the exception of the tv commercials which are seen by our customer base.
At any rate, I hope you are doing well.
Ben
Ben at January 30, 2010 4:37 PM
Just came across this response and you remain angry and bitter.
You take shared space as if it's your own. Yes, that makes me angry, because you're stealing from all of us. When I'm not confronted with piggy behavior like yours, I'm typically a happy and chatty person. I've met some amazing people at that Starbucks where I encountered you, because I like people and I'm interested in them -- those who aren't ill-mannered, that is.
When somebody takes your wallet, you know you've been robbed, because it's a tangible thing; it's there and then it's gone.
What you steal from people is their attention. You think our attention belongs to you and think nothing of streaming your loud, dull, business conversations into the brains of anyone who happens to be unlucky enough to sit near you.
Unfortunately, people are often afraid to speak up and don't understand that their attention is a resource, so they let you victimize them, and you think nothing of doing it. Whatever is easiest and most convenient for you, and never mind who you inflict yourself on. Ugly.
Hilariously, you add "I hope you are doing well."
If you cared about my welfare, you wouldn't have shouted your business into your phone after I told you it was bothering me. But, it is easy to type that into a blog item, now isn't it?
Amy Alkon at January 30, 2010 4:54 PM
I must bring this to a close.
I think we discussed enough.
Thank you and yes, I hope you are doing well.
Ben Singer at February 8, 2010 10:52 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/08/31/why_the_spanish.html#comment-1694253">comment from Ben SingerBen, you're hilarious. Just like in the coffee shop, when you refused to stop yammering into your phone, and never mind who it bothered, you just can't stop posting, even when you're saying nothing.
Amy Alkon at February 8, 2010 11:44 PM
Being subjected to people talking on cell phones everywhere we go in public spaces is really truly awful. That it's come to the point where it's considered acceptable by some is such a travesty.
When public phones existed they were located in out of the way areas where conversations wouldn't disturb others (in hallways, near the restrooms, outside etc...). If you didn't want to hear phone conversations you could avoid the pay phone area, or bank of pay phones. Now you have no options. People have their "mobile" phones and many consider any place they are their public phone booth. (Just as most smokers consider just about anywhere outside they are... their ashtray, another huge pet peeve)
No more chance to peacefully shop, stand in line, sit on the train/ bus, make a withdrawal at the ATM etc... without being subjected to someone's phone conversation (usually in a loud and/or strident tone). Yes, it's much easier to tune out a two-way live conversation being had at civil decibel levels.
Ben Singer, I'm sure you're a nice person and probably a good business man and loving father and husband. I hear ya, take care of your few last emails in the Starbucks before travelling home. But how about stepping outside to make phone calls? It really would be the polite thing to do.
I can totally understand why Amy reacted as she did though it may have been extreme. If you're a person bothered by people on cellphones around you, you're instantly angry & incredulous that people consider it OK to talk on a cell phone in a shared public space. As it's increasingly more and more common it builds up huge resentment because you can't escape it.
Just because there are people who aren't bothered by it doesn't mean that it isn't rude.
Hopefully some businesses will become cellphone free zones so that those of us who do not wish to be around it have options.
RainingInPanama at April 1, 2017 1:55 PM
I realize these posts were from 7 years ago! But the discussion is obviously still relevant. Maybe more so.
I find it interesting that Ben includes in his justification that he takes his calls in Starbucks so he can be 100% focused on wife + children when he gets home. But it's not as if the only options are A) Make the last few business calls of the day when home OR B) Make them in Starbucks.
How about you enjoy your coffee/latte/chai while finishing up the last few emails... and then make those calls in your car in the parking lot at Starbucks?
Ben writes:Needless to say, I see more people using public places as work areas which I think is great.
I agree, I think it's great too! Opens so many possibilities for people. But I only think it's great when their "work" is self-contained and unobtrusive.
People quietly typing away, writing in notebooks, reading, listening or watching something with headphones, all good!
But if you can do your "work" in the form of making/taking calls in Starbucks... I'm a fragrance tester can I do my work and spray various fragrances in the air as I write my reviews? I'm a trumpet player in the philharmonic may I practice my scales while you're on your call? I'm a life coach giving speeches at conferences, may I practice my speeches in full voice? Of course I *may* do all these things... but it would hardly be polite, would it?
RainingInPanama at April 1, 2017 2:53 PM
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