And Your Advice?
Read this story in The New York Times about a bunch of crystal-lickers making money from "coaching" people, and it occurs to me that I could dig myself out of the scary newspaper economy by offering private phone sessions with people -- or even in-person sessions (although I'd charge more for them). What do you think? If I did it, I could have a link on my blog "Private Session w/Amy," with a blurb explaining that people would have to pay first on PayPal. And if I did do this, how much do you think I should charge?
Enough to hire a large, impatient-looking man to supervise security during the 'sessions'.
Crid [CridComment @ gmail] at September 20, 2009 1:11 AM
PS- "Crystal lickers"... Har!
Crid [CridComment @ gmail] at September 20, 2009 1:11 AM
I think it's great. How much do psychics charge? $2.99 a minute? I'd say $30 per 15 mins, on the phone. $200 an hour in-person, but that's risky, safety-wise. You could do it in public I guess, a coffee-house or library's meeting room, maybe?
momof4 at September 20, 2009 2:08 AM
How about via IM/Chat?
Jim P. at September 20, 2009 4:27 AM
You actually have a proven thing unlike these women who all seem to be having a mid-life crisis in their 20's. You have a successful column for many years with a following, and your advice is smart, not New Age. These women all seem to have been followers or as the article states, "Carrie Bradshaw" wannabe's.
Kristen at September 20, 2009 5:12 AM
That's the thing, Kristen. And I was thinking $100 or $120 an hour for on-the-phone and if I did it in public, I'd charge more and do it in a coffee place.
And good idea, Jim P. -- I could do a Skype chat so they could keep the dialogue later. I type very fast. But, it's also possible on Skype to record it. Although sometimes there are sound problems -- I can't be responsible for those, especially if they're on a bad connection.
I've spent years studying what I do, and it's a continuing study, and I've always wanted to work with people with problems in this way. I noticed that the women in this piece read some self-help books, apparently the kind that center on irrational thought, lit some candles and started charging money. I think I provide advice with real value. And the value of my thinking can be seen in the columns posted on my site.
Interestingly, when I saw a therapist about five years ago (to help me with perfectionism that was stopping me from getting my work done), it was because I read about him in Susan Shapiro's book (I think it was Five Men Who Broke My Heart.)
I think a lot of therapists are crappy, and I could see that he was a cut above, so I flew to New York for a double session one Sunday night and he solved my problem in about 15 minutes and then spent the rest of the time reinforcing it (also, I'm a very good patient -- I understand therapy and how it works when it works well).
He was amused that I couldn't find a therapist in Los Angeles -- but the point was, I didn't have the kind of vetting of one I had thanks to Sue's book). I'm sure there are good ones out here, and ones who might've helped me as he did, but I can't just take other people's assurances that a therapist is great -- I needed examples, and she provided a book full that he was wise and a cut above.
Amy Alkon at September 20, 2009 6:28 AM
fifty bucks says you go less than a week before you get a guy who asks "So, what are you wearing?"
brian at September 20, 2009 7:04 AM
I am serious, Amy. I think you should do it. At the very least, start by running a few classes and charging by the person. With classes, you'd get a feel that could lead to individual sessions. The only problem I see is that sometimes the people going are looking for the miracle answers that don't require anything more than writing a thought on a visualization board. Not many want to do the actual work involved.
Kristen at September 20, 2009 7:55 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/09/20/and_your_advice.html#comment-1668589">comment from KristenThe only problem I see is that sometimes the people going are looking for the miracle answers that don't require anything more than writing a thought on a visualization board. Not many want to do the actual work involved.
I disabuse people of that stuff fast.
I've been getting e-mail from a guy who says he's too shy to ask women out, etc. I told him a stronger version of what I wrote in a column: If you're going to say that, be honest about what's causing your fate (being womanless) -- that you're too wimpy to endure 11 seconds of feeling foolish when a woman says no to risk asking women out.
I gave the example of scrawny, sickly, skinny Albert Ellis, who overcame his fear of asking women out by giving himself an assignment: Sit down next to 100 women in the Bronx Botannical Garden and talk to them and ask them out. He asked out all 100. Only one said yes and she stood him up. But, he overcame his fear, and saw, firsthand, that it's not awful, horrible, or terrible when women turn you down. It's just preferable that they say yes and beg to give you a blow job right then and there. Well, he didn't say that, but he wouldn't have had a problem with that, either. Ellis was hilarious. You'd said "fuck you," and he'd say, "Unfuck you. Fucking's a good thing!" He was quite the ladies man in his later years. He lucked out in old age -- Australian woman, Debbie Joffe, married him and, I believe, extended his life a number of years.
Amy Alkon at September 20, 2009 8:05 AM
I think you should do it; but I also think you are seriously underpricing your services. Before I read the comments I was thinking in the neighborhood of $125/half hour. The value of your advice is potentially life changing and worth much more than you've proposed. A higher fee will also weed out those who are not serious, the idly curious and the potential harrassment call, especially if you require advance payment.
I would urge you not to do in-person sessions. It's just not safe.
Bruce at September 20, 2009 9:23 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/09/20/and_your_advice.html#comment-1668601">comment from BruceGood points, Bruce (and Crid, earlier). And you're right -- I can do Skype sessions with a camera. That's much wiser. Makes it in-person without it being dangerous. People can send me pictures of things they need me to see. I'd e-mail before the session and tell them what I need, vis a vis their problem. (I'd ask them to tell me by e-mail about it so I could prepare.)
The therapist I went to in New York charged $220 for 45 minutes. Worth every penny.
I know what I do has a lot of value -- and I think people can see that I have thinking that's uncommon and action- and solution-oriented, and highly practical, from reading my column.
Can you all let me know what you think would be a good price for a half hour or for an hour session? And do you think I should offer both options? Or maybe a 45 minute session.
Amy Alkon at September 20, 2009 9:28 AM
Amy, I think it's a great idea. You could charge, what, $75 for half hour sessions, $150 for 45 minutes. More if you want to go a full hour, but that can be taxing on both patient and therapist. Limiting yourself to half hour and 45 minutes sessions wouldn't burn you out too soon. And screening people is most important. You could maybe ask for a percentage of the total cost as a deposit, to make sure someone's serious about hiring you. Non-refundable, so you don't get ripped off on all the research you would do pertaining to the person's problem. Also, no money-back guarantees. You can give people the best advice in the world, but if they don't follow it, it's on them, not you.
Flynne at September 20, 2009 9:51 AM
Amy,
I *think* I've suggested something like that to you before. IMHO essentially you'd be offering the services of a Personal Coach or Professional Coach, depending upon what the person required.
In terms of costs, I'd recommend this to start:
- US$75 per half hour
- US$125 per hour
- US$200 per hour to meet in person (plus travel expenses if outside of L.A.)
May good fortune be your friend!
Robert
Robert W. (Vancouver) at September 20, 2009 10:16 AM
fifty bucks says you go less than a week before you get a guy who asks "So, what are you wearing?"
I have talked to that guy online and on the phone. He keeps chancing his handle. Betting less than an hour.
Suki at September 20, 2009 10:18 AM
I still say start out with a group. Charge $49 per person and limit it to 30-40 people for a 2 hour class once a week. From those classes will come people who want private sessions but in the meantime you can build up a clientel.
Kristen at September 20, 2009 11:07 AM
Amy Alkon: Advice Goddess and BFF for Hire
One thing to consider is charging significantly less than you intend to charge for the first ten or so sessions in exchange for good testimonials (by which I mean well-written not "Amy is teh bestest!"). Get some good ad copy that way.
n i wud tihnk bout how muhc of dis kinda riting u can stand
Elle at September 20, 2009 11:23 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/09/20/and_your_advice.html#comment-1668621">comment from ElleThanks, Elle, but I don't feel a need for such testimonials -- people can read my columns, and I have testimonials from Albert Ellis and the like (he founded cognitive behavioral therapy) and Tyler Cowen recently said something very nice -- I could ask him for permission to use it -- it was that he thinks I'm the best advice columnist out there from an economist's point of view.
Actually, come to think of it, I have probably hundreds of "testimonials" from people I've helped over the years who've written back to tell me how I made a difference, and helped them change when therapists, friends, family and others could not.
Amy Alkon at September 20, 2009 11:51 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/09/20/and_your_advice.html#comment-1668622">comment from KristenI still say start out with a group. Charge $49 per person and limit it to 30-40 people for a 2 hour class once a week. From those classes will come people who want private sessions but in the meantime you can build up a clientel.
I could do that for a Skype chat.
I don't really need or want a "clientele" -- just a few people per month, really.
Or I'd do a group thing four times a month.
Amy Alkon at September 20, 2009 11:56 AM
I think motivational speaking is the way to go, especially touting big wealth to be made.
Oh, the story about Albert Ellis asking 100 women out, and 99 rejected him rings true. One time I asked out 700 women in row, before one said yes.
And women say we guys should make the first move. We do, but at times exhaustion sets in.
i-holier-than-thou at September 20, 2009 12:34 PM
I wouldn't start out too high. The economy is so bad right now. Just beat the psychologists' prices. I feel there is a need for people to get help in a less taxing way than going to some cold, therapy office, and your help is much more useful, since most psychologists are trained not to give direct advice anymore ("assist the client in coming to his/her own solution", blah, blah)
Online chat makes perfect sense, and you already have the set up to market it through your site and columns. You could also sell tapes on various subjects to go along with your advice, as sort of follow-up support. Those would also probably sell very well on their own.
lovelysoul at September 20, 2009 2:39 PM
Amy - this is a brilliant idea. Go for it!!!
Feebie at September 20, 2009 3:21 PM
I'm not certain that a half-hour session is long enough to get anything done. 45 minutes seems about right; you could do two or three of those in a day, a couple of times a week, without wearing yourself out. Don't forget that you've got a worldwide audience and you may have to do some sessions at odd times of day to accommodate overseas clients.
I'm not sure that pricing by L.A. standards is going to work; it puts the service out of range for a lot of the country. $85 for a 45-minute session would be quite competitive where I live.
And I'm curious: what did the therapist in NY tell you about perfectionism?
Cousin Dave at September 20, 2009 3:53 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/09/20/and_your_advice.html#comment-1668662">comment from Cousin DaveAnd I'm curious: what did the therapist in NY tell you about perfectionism?
It actually relates very personally to me, but there's a related bit that might be helpful to others -- a term called satisficing -- a combination of "satisfy" and "suffice"; that the best is the enemy of the good. If I spend all day on a tiny bit of my column, the rest of it will suffer.
Ultimately, if I do a "good enough" job (and I mean vis a vis my own standards, which are outrageously high compared to most people's), I will have enough time and energy at the end to go back and punch up whatever isn't quite up to snuff or isn't as hard-hitting or funny as I want it to be.
Here's more on this, and you can google the word for even more:
http://books.google.com/books?id=juX1nCMWkPkC&pg=PA170&lpg=PA170&dq=satisficing+is+the+best+is+the+enemy+of+the&source=bl&ots=RaC9N3ns7L&sig=2ju-_T8k672QBMJJ6zFC-xDr5As&hl=en&ei=Cr62SuzVHqLOtAOn-bjnBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#v=onepage&q=satisficing%20is%20the%20best%20is%20the%20enemy%20of%20the&f=false
Amy Alkon at September 20, 2009 4:46 PM
Amy, here's a bunch of happy people willing to fluff anyone.
Tell the marks what they wanna hear, you're gonna make a fortune!
Credentials? Ethics? Who needs 'em?
Radwaste at September 20, 2009 5:34 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/09/20/and_your_advice.html#comment-1668669">comment from RadwasteI see it as my job to tell people what they don't want to hear.
Amy Alkon at September 20, 2009 5:48 PM
I see it as my job to tell people what they don't want to hear.
Didn't you read the article?!?
Those women want someone who's going amplify their self absorption and make them think that it's actually some kind of spirituality. 'Fluffing' is an apt term.
But I could see a demand for a form of goal-based NO BS coaching. There are personal career coaches who charge quite a lot for this sort of thing.
For instance, I bet that a lot of guys would pay upwards of $1000 for a 6 week 'get a girlfriend' program. You wouldn't need to guarantee them a girlfriend, just get them on the right track w/ some advice, constructive criticism, and skills. This could be especially popular among men who've been out of the mix for a while (e.g. divorced ).
Mike at September 20, 2009 7:04 PM
Or, tell guys to ask fat women out. Then they will get dates.
i-holier-than-thou at September 20, 2009 9:07 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/09/20/and_your_advice.html#comment-1668688">comment from MikeI see it as my job to tell people what they don't want to hear. Didn't you read the article?!? Those women want someone who's going amplify their self absorption and make them think that it's actually some kind of spirituality
Not that kind of girl.
I think I'm going to charge $195 for 45 minutes, payable in advance, by Paypal. There will actually be a little more included -- people will e-mail me in advance so I can prep for the session if need be (do research, think about it, etc.)
I'll do the session over the phone, on audio or video Skype.
I loathe the therapy industry bullshit, of turning somebody into a cash cow. I want to give people what they need and the practical steps to apply it -- make this work for them in real life, tell them what the flaws in their thinking are. I love when people tell me I've helped them turn their lives around. It's also something that has value -- especially when I talk to somebody for an extended period of time. And these are tough times in newspapers, plus this is something I've always wanted to do -- this article with these ridiculous women just made me realize I should be doing it.
Thank you all so much for your advice.
And P.S. I'd love to do a reform program with a guy, or guys. I've been considering doing seminars, and started writing one, but I've been so overwhelmed with the book prep (cover STILL isn't done, most amazingly, but it's getting there) I haven't been able to go anywhere with that.
And actually, I thought I could move in with somebody for a period of time (for a lot of money) and really reform their thinking and how they live.
Amy Alkon at September 20, 2009 9:22 PM
Would be intersting to see if your sense of humor and common-sense advice would translate into a call-in radio show?
Just a thought.
David M. at September 21, 2009 3:57 AM
RE: your last comment (9:22 PM), everything except your last idea about living with someone sounds like a good idea.
You have an excellent and national reputation as an advice columnist. Don't discount anything. $195 / 45 min is the absolute minimum you should charge. However, I hope you can figure out some way to meet people face-to-face while also providing for your personal security AND their privacy - I think that would be the most effective way you could interact with clients.
A lot of people can say they have degrees and done a lot of reading. What you offer beyond that is a verifiable record of crystal clarity of thought. :) Another extremely valuable part of what people are buying when they get counseling (from someone who doesn't know them personally) is an advisor who has no vested interest in the choices they make. I think you've already demonstrated that "lack of investment" quality very well.
Teaching classes would probably provide you with a good pipeline for individual clients. So would a call-in radio show.
You've always impressed me with your advice. I think you would make an excellent personal advisor.
Angel at September 21, 2009 6:20 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/09/20/and_your_advice.html#comment-1668739">comment from AngelThank you, Angel - that really means a lot. I'd love to have a radio show. I've loved doing radio for eons.
I would like to do in-person sessions -- and I could do them in a public place. I'm wavering on that.
And you're also right -- I have no agenda other than solving the problem and helping people have the best lives they can...helping them get out of their own way, change the irrational thinking that's holding them back. I see it as a failure to help if people have to come back for eons and whine about their problems. There's such a thing -- or should be -- in therapy as coming in for a tune-up, to see if you're doing anything irrational or damaging and catch it or change it. But whining and ruminating on your lot in life only solidifies it as your lot in life.
I'm going to suggest to a woman I've been giving advice to (for a male friend of hers whose wife just read Eat, Pray, Lunch, or whatever it's called, and now wants to go off and "find herself" and never mind the three kids) that he consult with me so I can give him advice firsthand. Such crap from this woman: "I’m going to find my Italian lover!" Um, no you’re not. You’re going to find your 3-year-old a better pre-school.
Amy Alkon at September 21, 2009 6:31 AM
I saw a clip about a guy in Silcone valley (I think) who started a dating course for nerds. It was very successful. These were guys that had never approached women. He coaches them on how to strike up conversations, then takes them out into the field (nightclub) and has them practice it. He does seminars too. I think you would be very successful helping guys like that since you don't pull any punches and can tell them what they're doing wrong.
lovelysoul at September 21, 2009 6:48 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/09/20/and_your_advice.html#comment-1668743">comment from lovelysoulThanks, lovelysoul. I'd love to do that, and to make over women (physically and psychologically) who have a hard time with it, too.
Amy Alkon at September 21, 2009 6:57 AM
Yes, that is definitely a need. And it might be better received for you to train women than men, though I don't see why a woman couldn't coach guys too.
What I see so often, among my female friends, as well as dating horror stories from male friends, is that women desperately want relationships, but when they actually encounter one that has real potential, they act so neurotic and crazy they scare the guys off.
lovelysoul at September 21, 2009 7:08 AM
"And actually, I thought I could move in with somebody for a period of time (for a lot of money) and really reform their thinking and how they live. "
Amy, there's an idea for a TV show. Seriously. People who watch A&E, TLC and Style (I plead guilty) eat that stuff up.
Cousin Dave at September 21, 2009 7:29 AM
Y'know, if all you're looking for in your career is a little more interpersonal action, you should do sales of some kind.
Crid [CridComment @ gmail] at September 21, 2009 9:03 AM
"I think I'm going to charge $195 for 45 minutes, payable in advance, by Paypal."
*I was going to tell you that whatever you plan on charging, to up it by 25%. However, I think this is a good price point.
But you're going to have to stop giving away free unpublished advice.
snakeman99 at September 21, 2009 9:45 AM
Tarot readings run around $30 for a half hour.
Nicolek at September 21, 2009 1:30 PM
I'm not sure you can charge -more- than a licensed therapist...
NicoleK at September 21, 2009 5:14 PM
I think it's not worth the hassle from the State of CA and Los Angeles for business license, therapy license, etc.
Kate at September 21, 2009 5:38 PM
I loved the book "How to Make Anyone Fall in Love With You" by Leil Lowndes. That would be a great book to use as a text in a class!
Angel at September 21, 2009 7:56 PM
Sounds like a good idea for you to make money. I think you are about right on price.
I have hired similar services. Though I hope I am smart enough not to do it again. The one hired for career advice ended up telling me nothing I didn't know and basically just confirmed everything I said. The dating and general life advise - little bits of good stuff but most of it either does not apply or looks great in theory but in practice fails. A clear example was a class at the local learning extn. I attended put on by a famous dating advise person (name escapes me) from NYC - she talked about all the people you walk past on your way to work - I made a face and she asked me how many people I thought I passed on my way to work - I said I probably see about 50 different people in a year. I drive from my house to the company garage and take the elevator to my office. I only see co-workers. She seemed stunned that people didn't walk and/or take the bus to work.
There was a TV show were a man observed a small group of women and gave them dating advice.
The Former Banker at September 22, 2009 12:33 AM
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