Why More Women Aren't Bloggers
No, it isn't that "the patriarchy" rules Movable Type, Expression Engine, or Blogspot. Fellow girl blogger Melissa Clouthier gets it right:
The Internet still feels like the Wild West. There are some safe homesteads-social media, for example. Consider: On Facebook, a woman can decide who she wants to connect with and who she wants to keep out. On Twitter, a woman who feels wrongly attacked can block the attacker. (Meghan McCain, the mad blocker, comes to mind. She takes even mild criticism as a block-worthy offense.)When it comes the arena of ideas, the women who blog are not typical women. Over and over, the women who blog are tougher. Like the shotgun wielding Western expansionists of yore, women bloggers take shots and can shoot back.
Women bloggers are often sexualized and insulted. One famous incident with Kathy Sierra involved photoshop and personal information. Kathy quit, something I urged her not to do. She is now, though, on Twitter and I believe she blogs anonymously to spare herself the insulting misery. Michelle Malkin, Amanda Carpenter, and just about every conservative woman blogger, including me, has endured horrible personal, violent and sexual insults-very often from "enlightened" male liberal commenters and bloggers.
...In addition, women often don't like the intellectual jousting. Part of it is gender wiring. Men see verbal sparring as a testosterone-fueled challenge. Women see degraded communication and hostility. When they put an idea out there, it seems aggressive when someone rips the point of view to shreds. And, it is aggressive.
This sounds just like what you (Amy) have written about office politics. Treat women like "one of the boys" and they think they are being harrassed. Treat them differently, and it's discrimination or sexism.
If you want to preserve privacy, blog under a pseudonym. If you think it's a gender problem, use initials, or a pseudonym that is not clearly male or female. Many bloggers have pulled this off; in the case of PJ on Groklaw, her opponents even hired private investigators in an attempt to discover her identity.
Yes, there are rudelings in the net. Life is like that; the alternative (censorship) does not bear thinking upon...
bradley13 at October 27, 2009 3:13 AM
Reminds me of Alyssa Milano's mother, Lin, the biggest jackass on the internet. It seems that when Cory, Alyssa's brother, found pictures of his sister nude (from her breast-baring film days, with such insightful flicks like "Embrace of the Vampire"), he went and told his mother, who made it her business to threaten and harass all webmasters who posted those pictures. And some websites that didn't even have pornographic images of her daughter.
What she fails to realize, is that pictures don't belong to the subject. They belong to the photographer. If I took a picture of Alyssa Milano, for instance, the picture is mine to do with as I see fit. If I choose to declare it public domain, it's my right.
Does Alyssa have any say about what I do with the picture? She could ask me nicely, but in a word, "No."
But nonetheless, she's made it her business to threaten webmasters who post pictures of her daughter, although she herself doesn't own any of them, nor does Alyssa.
She also founded safesearching.com, a website for the more timid type of celebrity who gets their own forum and reserves the right to ban any and all criticism. Amy, you could probably get on safesearching.com. And if you don't like what people have to say in response to your columns (or anything else they say), one click and those nasty, objectionable comments are gone.
I'm being sarcastic, by the way. I don't believe you'd be interested in living in a perfect, sheltered world where everyone who disagrees with you is silenced at your discretion.
I already mentioned, three years ago on this blog, about what happened with legendary comic book artist and curmudgeon John Byrne at that website, when his fans objected to his statement that Jessica Alba shouldn't be cast as Susan Richards in the Fantastic Four movie, since (according to him) Mexican women dyed blonde look like whores.
Patrick at October 27, 2009 4:59 AM
"Alyssa Milano's mother, Lin, the biggest jackass on the internet."
Patrick, are you SURE you want to waste a superlative on this? There is a staggeringly huge amount of competition for that particular title....
:-)
The blogosphere is unforgiving and tough, I agree. It's far easier to be rude and downright nasty to someone you'll never meet and don't even know his/her name...good for you, Amy, for being a pioneer!
the other Beth at October 27, 2009 6:10 AM
the other Beth writes: Patrick, are you SURE you want to waste a superlative on this? There is a staggeringly huge amount of competition for that particular title....
The other competition would be given a run for the money. After her then 14-year-old son, Cory, (Alyssa's younger brother) discovered pictures of Alyssa's nude work, he went and told his mother...Why Lin didn't bring the incestuous little pervert to a shrink is beyond me.
Lin then founded Cyber-Trackers, whose sole purpose was harassing webmasters who posted pictures of Alyssa, whether nude or otherwise.
The problem with Lin is that she doesn't think anyone should be allowed to post any pictures of Alyssa, save for the "official site," and she's actually driven off wholesome, fan-designed websites dedicated to her daughter, not because of any legal action she did, but because they got sick of the harassment.
I'm no fan of Alyssa Milano's, but if I ever saw her in person, my camera would be going non-stop, just so I can post the pictures on the web to annoy Lin.
And if she starts threatening me, I'll sue her horse-faced ass for harassment. (She should have guest-starred on "Charmed" as a scary demon. Talk about uuuuuuugly!)
Lin then founded Safesearching.com, to protect the delicate feelings of celebrities who jutht can't thand to have their widdle feewings huwt by fanth who might thay bad thingth about them. So, they can pull the plug on any post that offends their tender sensibilities. If you've got a nominee to top that as the internet's biggest jackass, I'd love to hear about them. I could use the laughs.
Patrick at October 27, 2009 6:34 AM
Does anyone happen to know of an example of a male blogger being targeted in the same way that female bloggers are often targeted? I.e., rape and murder threats, sustained attacks on irrelevant personal characteristics, routine dismissals of one's point of view for nothing more than one of those irrelevant characteristics?
Obviously censorship isn't the answer, but this attitude that women just need to toughen up ignores the reality that people treat public figures very differently based on gender. This oblique and self-serving woman-bashing (oh, look at us, we're not so weak and pathetic like those OTHER women) doesn't really get to the actual point - that thoughtful, intelligent voices are too-frequently treated with disrespect because of the gender of the speaker.
CB at October 27, 2009 6:49 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/10/27/why_more_women.html#comment-1674770">comment from CBPlenty of men are. My friend, Dan Blatt, aka Gay Patriot, is one of them.
http://www.gaypatriot.net/
Amy Alkon at October 27, 2009 7:03 AM
A lady professor spent a fair amount of energy threatening to murder Jeff Goldstein's child.
http://www.proteinwisdom.com
Robin at October 27, 2009 7:28 AM
I don't get it. Going attack mode is just an admission that you cannot refute an argument. Going attack mode anonymously is just an admission that you are a coward who cannot refute an argument.
That begs the question, why do I use a thinly veiled pseudonym? I work for megacorp, whose client is an even bigger megacorp. My service is at the discretion of my masters. I can be replaced, for no reason at all. It only takes someone saying "I want him off the account."
Keeping public and private persona minimally separate seems a reasonable thing to do.
MarkD at October 27, 2009 7:31 AM
I appreciate the responses, but these links don't show anything about the bloggers in question being targeted with violent threats or droves of nasty, content-agnostic insults. A quick google search did show this about Jeff Goldstein: http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/jeff_goldstein_gets_some_nasty_email/ , but that appears to be a lone individual who publicly apologized to Mr. Goldstein after losing her job based on the attacks she made. That's not really the same thing that Kathy Sierra and Michelle Malkin underwent. As for the Gay Patriot, my quick googling didn't turn up anything about him being targeted, but I'd be curious as to whether the attacks on him are related to his sexuality. The same men who viciously attack women often turn that same vitriol, or worse, on gay men.
CB at October 27, 2009 7:39 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/10/27/why_more_women.html#comment-1674785">comment from CBThe tiny little thugs who go after him also went after me, and go after anyone they perceive as a conservative, sending over a herd of idiots to disrupt a blogger's comments section (and gotta love this -- with attacks on their sexuality, looks, etc., by these "progressives"). I'm not a religious or social conservative; I'm a libertarian and fiscal conservative, but I got dinged on the "anybody who criticizes a black person is a racist" dealie.
Amy Alkon at October 27, 2009 7:51 AM
Goldstein story from Patterico, click his links as well. If she apologized, it was long after resigning, saying that was her plan all along, and BLAMING Goldstein.
http://patterico.com/2006/07/07/blogger-threatens-jeff-goldsteins-two-year-old-son/
Robin at October 27, 2009 8:40 AM
Why isn't it "the same thing" to be threatened by a "lone individual"?
This is a small taste of the threat:
"[...] as I said elsewhere, if I woke up tomorrow and learned that someone else had shot you and your tyke it wouldnt slow me down one iota. You arent human to me."
and
"So if you could just tell me the AGE and SEX of your tyke, Id be stoked!
Thanx!"
Robin at October 27, 2009 8:48 AM
>>If you think it's a gender problem, use initials, or a pseudonym that is not clearly male or female.
Welcome to the world of Victorian lady novelists!
The Bronte sisters originally published under the names Currer, Ellis And Acton Bell to disguise their gender.
(To their credit, they were uncomfortable with the deception.)
Jody Tresidder at October 27, 2009 9:00 AM
Amy's point is a very important one - this is definitely not an issue of liberals vs. conservatives. Many supposedly progressive men are incredibly nasty and vicious when a woman dares to disagree with them; I'm no fan of Michelle Malkin, but what she was subjected to was ugly. But again, I'm still curious if there are any examples of male bloggers getting the Kathy Sierra treatment.
CB at October 27, 2009 9:03 AM
nah CB, they usually threaten your children or family... it makes sense that women are threatened with different things than men, since different things matter to us. threaten me? yeah whatever, bring it... threaten my children, and you can expect nuclear.
You aren't going to get apple to apples comparisons, an I'm not sure why you think you would. Attackers try and get under your skin, and find what you fear. We fear different things.
SwissArmyD at October 27, 2009 9:20 AM
Patrick, I'm pretty sure it depends on how you plan to use the photo whether or not it is yours to do with as you please.
If you take it while she's on public property, then yeah, yours. But, if not, and if you're trying to make any kind of money from it, I'm pretty sure you need a model release.
One of my good friends is a photographer, and this sticks out in my head for some reason. So, I'm not 100 % sure on the legality issue, but if you plan to pursue Alyssa, you may want to check into that so the law can't bite you in the ass.
Angie at October 27, 2009 9:33 AM
FTA: "conservative woman blogger, including me, has endured horrible personal, violent and sexual insults-very often from "enlightened" male liberal commenters and bloggers."
Speaking of which, where is "I-hole-of-many- monikers"?
Feebie at October 27, 2009 9:57 AM
I'm still curious if there are any examples of male bloggers getting the Kathy Sierra treatment.
Yes. You seem to be trying to establish that women are more likely to be attacked more severly. But that's not the case. Anyone who takes a controversial stand online is going to get their fair share to abuse. And it's often very personal.
But I do think that the strategies of attacks against women are different. Firstly they often come from other women who will attempt to play on typical female insecurities ( appearance, age, sexual history). And where a male will simply ignore the attacks, women often respond to them, which only aggravates the situation.
For instance Ann Althouse used to get a lot of stalker trolls, all Progressives, until she started pulling their posts. Then they went away.
Also the attacks against Goldstein weren't simply the work of a lone person. She was following on the coattails of an organized campaign coming from Atrios and Koz's people. They were threatening to rape his infant child. Their attacks escalated for a long while, until the crazy lady went overboard and he had to act. Also his readers unmasked one of the trolls, another academic, and made his activities known to his employer.
malcolm Z at October 27, 2009 10:09 AM
Has it ever occurred to anyone that a mom who is running errands and getting junior to soccer practice/games has less time to sit around and B.S. for more than an hour or whatever than most guys do. I think its probably the same reason we don't play as many video games. Less time and far less desire to do so.
And I can tell you it ain't cause we ain't tough or can't take the abuse.. If you think that you have never had to contend with *the other soccer moms*..
JosephineMO6 at October 27, 2009 10:25 AM
Josephine, just how much time do you think men in general have to sit around and B.S.? I'm sorry, but this is a sore point for me.
Cousin Dave at October 27, 2009 10:28 AM
>>Has it ever occurred to anyone that a mom who is running errands and getting junior to soccer practice/games has less time to sit around and B.S. for more than an hour or whatever than most guys do. I think its probably the same reason we don't play as many video games. Less time and far less desire to do so.
I DO think that's a fair point though I have noticed - where the info is available, that it's non-married guys with no kids who seem to have the most free time to pursue endless blog debates.
Josephine - are you the same JospehineMO6 who used to comment at Dawn's? If so - a friendly hello!
Jody Tresidder at October 27, 2009 10:41 AM
Angie writes: Patrick, I'm pretty sure it depends on how you plan to use the photo whether or not it is yours to do with as you please.
If you take it while she's on public property, then yeah, yours. But, if not, and if you're trying to make any kind of money from it, I'm pretty sure you need a model release.
Where else would I take it if not on public property? But have no worries. I have no plans to seek out Alyssa Milano, or any other celebrity. Just thought it would be funny if the opportunity fell into my lap. It would annoy Lin the Cyber-Jackass no end.
As for the model release, not on public property. The paparazzi does it all the time. In fact, they photographed Brad Pitt on private property while skinny dipping in his own pool and still made money off it. I didn't follow the story to hear how it turned out, though. Those were terrible shots anyway. You couldn't even tell it was him.
Patrick at October 27, 2009 11:00 AM
Oh, wait. Looks like Brad Pitt prevented the release of those photos. Well, good for him. That was a gross invasion of privacy. Whoever shot those photos should have been charged with trespass and stalking.
Patrick at October 27, 2009 11:05 AM
The other competition would be given a run for the money. After her then 14-year-old son, Cory, (Alyssa's younger brother) discovered pictures of Alyssa's nude work, he went and told his mother...Why Lin didn't bring the incestuous little pervert to a shrink is beyond me.
-------------
So you're calling the brother as a perv simply because he found topless pics of his sister? Perhaps he was told by his buddies who had a thing for his sister and he looked (how dare he!)? Or is it just that he's a young guy who dared to look at some "porn"? Did he admit to spanking it to his sister's pic?
Sio at October 27, 2009 11:13 AM
The public sphere is "rough and tumble" not "Marquis de Queensbury" rules. Amy is respected because she earns it. She can take it, and she can dish it out.
Some people (CB, you know who I'm talking about) seem to think that respect is handed out to all comers -- like some sort of "goodie bag" -- just for showing up. SOME people seem even to expect deference when they deign to appear.
The internet blogosphere is the perfect laboratory to demonstrate that equal opportunity between the genders does NOT always lead to equal results -- no matter how much this offends the feminists and the rest of the PC crowd).
By the way, isn't it women who supposedly have the big edge when it comes to interpersonal communication and language skills as compared to we brutish, inarticulate men?
Oh, yeah. There is that logic thing ... .
Jay R at October 27, 2009 11:14 AM
Most of the bloggers I know personally are women, but then, most of those blogs are mommy blogs. Two others are general "diary"-type blogs that the writers don't expect anyone but their friends and family to read.
Mommy blogging has taken on a life of its own.
MonicaP at October 27, 2009 11:16 AM
I'm sorry, but where exactly are you coming up with the statistic that there are more male than female bloggers? Did someone do a study? Is there any correction for the type of blog/number of followers/how active the blog is? If a 14 year has a blog of how many calories she eats everyday, does that count?
Because I would have said exactly the opposite: there are more female than male bloggers. Virtually all the blogs I follow and/or stumble upon have female authors. Of course, this probably depends on the type of blogs you're reading. I generally read food/fitness blogs, which tend to be dominated by women. Maybe political/economic/business blogs have more men, but I'd still like to see the statistics. Because it sounds to me like Melissa Clouthier has pulled a theory out of her ass so she can pat herself on the back for being superior to all those poor typical women.
Shannon at October 27, 2009 11:34 AM
Not every use of sexist insults indicates sexism and not every use of racist insults indicates racism. Sometimes people are just trying to be insulting.
Since use of sexist or racist insults reflects poorly on everybody opposed to the person being insulted, people sometimes use such insults strategically, as was the case with some of the Tea Party protests last summer, when Democrats carried offensive anti-Obama signs in order to make the protesters look bad. In those cases, the discovery of duplicity caused the tactic to backfire.
I am skeptical about claims that women and minorities face extra bigotry online because sexist and racist insults are almost always used to support the viewpoints of those being insulted, ignoring the fact that people are sometimes just being jerks.
How to tell apart people saying sexist things because they're sexist and people saying sexist things because they're jerks? One group that we can be sure is sexist (or racist) are those who use sexist (or racist) terms in support of someone, not against someone. (Even then we have to be on guard against dirty tricks.) That's not many people though; my perception is that the overwhelming majority of racist and sexist remarks are made in the context of an attack, making it impossible to say for sure what percentage are due to actual racism or sexism.
Pseudonym at October 27, 2009 11:54 AM
>> If you think it's a gender problem, use
>> initials, or a pseudonym that is not
>> clearly male or female.
> Welcome to the world of Victorian
> lady novelists!
Mixed feelings... This technique would certainly open a lot of women's eyes to how their ideas are really perceived. That's something that really needs to happen. I think One reason people distrust feminism nowadays is that it's so obviously been corrupted by pinky-extended weenie women, and is more about naive girliness than courageous womanhood. Using pen names would help women understand this.
On the other hand, you ought to be true to your school.
Anyway, it doesn't take months. It was months before I figured out that Amy's commenter Purplepen was in fact a woman... And that's a feminine nickname! But her writing was not prissy or girlish.
Crid [CridComment @ gmail] at October 27, 2009 12:04 PM
Obviously, I am not Amy Alkon, and so, can't comment on her experinces, and I am more than positive that anyone simpleminded enough to consider an online blogger their "enemy" would not scruple at targeting such worthless facets as the targets gender or sexuality.
But to say women don't blog out of fear, or, social wiring, seems to be casting women in the role of "timidity" unfairly. It would seem that the cloak of anonymity would be the perfect place for someone with strong passions, but less fiery determination, to present their feelings. I don't believe there is a social stigma against women blogging online. (So long as they don't start asking to vote next, amirite?) If there ARE sects out there who oppose women blogging, then consider the worth of your opponent.
Alexander wouldn't have wept, at the prospect of having no more enemies, had the world consisted of foul mouthed, basement dwelling bloggers who picked fights with women online. He likely would have considered the world not worth owning. So too should female bloggers disregard infantile opponents.
Chronotrigger at October 27, 2009 12:09 PM
Shannon makes an excellent pint about what KINDS of blogs we are talking about. There is also a great deal of change within personal blogs in the last years. 5 years ago many of my friends had regular blogs to talk of their latest vacation and accidently running through poison ivy. Those sorts of blogs have often migrated to social networking sites because they are easier to keep there.
Basically I doubt if there will be lots of attacking of someone wh has a blog where they complain about the basics of their life. If they expound on how they love/hate the second ammendment, or how macs are teh sux0r and PC's rule... those things are if interest to more people, and are more polarizing issues. I would say that how broad and encompassing the issues are will determine how many people visit and how many people argue on a blog.
Amy takes some pretty polarized stands on things, that puts her in the line of fire occasionally. If you keep your head down and never do that, you won't be, in general. There are a few people over the years that I have lost track of, because they just hated all the animosity, and the blog itself didn't parallel what their life was about. If you are a writer and columnist, then having a blog is pretty natural. If you are an engineer and sometime waterblogger from the inland empire, the aggravation may stop being worth the effort...
SwissArmyD at October 27, 2009 1:44 PM
Totally off topic, but i still have my old copy of chronotrigger
lujlp at October 27, 2009 1:53 PM
I don't know why more women aren't blogging but tonight I'm reading blogs and my wife is playing scrabble on facebook. Go figure.
Roux at October 27, 2009 9:10 PM
"So you're calling the brother as a perv simply because he found topless pics of his sister? Perhaps he was told by his buddies who had a thing for his sister and he looked (how dare he!)? Or is it just that he's a young guy who dared to look at some "porn"? Did he admit to spanking it to his sister's pic?"
Oh, simmer down. It's a joke. I'm just trying to envision how Alyssa's then 14-year-old brother happened to find these pictures...and imagining him sitting at a computer clicking on text labels that are saying, "See [YOUR SISTER] naked!"
Gross!
Lin of course, was furious when Cory told her. But not at her son. She was furious at the websites that were posting those pictures. Yeah, some nerve. Alyssa was baring her breasts in every low-grade film ever made, and Lin is shocked that some of the stills had made it to the internet.
Patrick at October 27, 2009 10:20 PM
The mention of Debora Frisch got me curious. I eventually found this timeline of her descent into insanity. Read from bottom to top.
Robert W. at October 28, 2009 11:48 AM
I love social networking sites. Precisely BECAUSE I want to see pictures of people's babies and weddings. I like seeing how people are doing. I guess I am a bit of a voyeur!
NicoleK at October 29, 2009 11:26 AM
I love social networking sites. Precisely BECAUSE I want to see pictures of people's babies and weddings. I like seeing how people are doing. I guess I am a bit of a voyeur!
NicoleK at October 29, 2009 11:32 AM
Dave. Don't know if you are still reading this post but... You have never met my hubby's WoW buddies. OR for that matter my hubby. He blogs and communicates on WoW. I sew garden a bit and do other stuff.. I am in the "just doesn't care" category with blogging. I read a few and occasionally comment..
Jody,
Yep its me. Soon to be MO7. I haven't been to dawns blog in ages. My understanding is she is busy in school right now anywhoo.. And yes many of the guys we know who are single blog alot. More political stuff funny enough. No mommy blogger type stuff really.
JosephineMO7 at October 29, 2009 3:10 PM
Detta är ett ämne nära mitt hjärta jublar, var är dina kontaktuppgifter om?
gococo strumpor at June 2, 2011 2:19 AM
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