Air France And The Fat Ass Charge
From the Telegraph, Air France is going to start charging seriously overweight flyers for two seats, or not allow them on board for "safety reasons":
"People who arrive at the check-in desk and are deemed too large to fit into a single seat will be asked to pay for and use a second seat," said Monique Matze, an Air France spokesman. "They will be charged 75 per cent of the cost of the second seat, which is the full price excluding tax and surcharges, on top of the full price for the first."The decision has been made for safety reasons. We have to make sure that the backrest can move freely up and down and that all passengers are securely fastened with a seatbelt."
She added: "People who cannot fit into a single seat will then be fastened by slotting the belt tip of one seat into the plug of the next, stretching over both seats.
"However the charge will only apply on flights that are full booked. They will get their money back on flights where spaces are available."
People who are too big to fit in one seat should pay for two without being forced to. You know who you are. I pay for one whole seat when I fly. I'd like to luxuriate in that whole tiny little space all by myself, thanks. Try to think of the arm rest between our seats as a divider, not as a little leaning device to help you more easily store your second stomach.
No, this doesn't happen often -- and hasn't happened to me often -- but the worst was when I took a small plane as a connector flight somewhere in the south. I think the guy next to me smashing me against the window was probably 500 lbs. In between feeling sorry for me, I felt sorry for him -- and I now wish I could go back and introduce him to Gary Taubes and Dr. Eades.
I write about this a bit in my book, I SEE RUDE PEOPLE:
Of course, in recent years, air travel has become like flying below Greyhound -- in the baggage compartment under the bus. There are those who still find coach seats adequately roomy; mainly small-boned children under eight, and armless, legless midgets. Better hope you have one of the latter seated next to you, and not some 300-pound man who wordlessly annexes half of your seat like he's Germany and you're Poland.
The rule for various situations, not just airlines, is that you don't get to inflict yourself on other people. There's a Spanish proverb, "Take what you need, but pay for it." More people should live by it. Fat and/or paper cut-shaped. And, more people should speak up to those who don't -- instead of meekly letting them victimize them, and sending the message that they can keep on keepin' on victimizing the rest of us.
thanks, kishke
My complaint is that economy seats are made to fit a 15 year old with anorexia.
I recently flew the same aircraft (757) I flew a few years back. The seats were two on the left and three on the right back then. Now it is three and three.
I want someone to explain to me how the seat widths didn't change, but they got an extra row in the same fuselage.
Jim P. at January 21, 2010 8:13 PM
Try flying Southwest when you can. Fatsos - pardon me, "Customers of Size" - can reserve (and pay for) 2 adjacent seats by adding "XS" to their name when they buy their ticket online. If by chance the flight is undersold, Southwest will generously refund the charge for the extra seat. I presume that if an obese passenger who's only paid for 1 seat waddles up to the check-in desk, they treat them like Air France is planning to.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124450530210396091.html
As mentioned in the article, Air Canada & other Canadian airlines tried implementing an extra-fare policy 2 years ago, & the Supreme Court ruled that it was discriminatory. But they left a loophole by saying that it was discrimination against the disabled. So now, fat Canadians who want that 2nd seat for free have to fill out 5 pages of forms & get their doctors to measure their asses & certify that they are disabled as a result of their obesity.
Wonder how long Air France will last before they're sued.
Martin at January 21, 2010 8:17 PM
What France Air asks for and says who has to pay extra. Actually seems fair. This is coming from a guy who is a little chunky.
John Paulson at January 21, 2010 10:51 PM
I lived in Japan for several years, and flying on THEIR airlines is worse. Better and more friendly flight attendants, yes, but the seats are clearly made for the Asian body type. I'm an average sized (Anglo) guy, but I still felt like tab A in slot B when I sat down.
You know what's the stupidest invention yet? Touch screens in the back of the seat. I had a guy behind me playing Tetris or something. Half the flight, peck, pound, peck, jab, jab, peck, pound. I about went Al Qaeda on his irritating arse.
Steve B at January 21, 2010 10:58 PM
Any chance airlines start using a "size wise" for passengers?
If you can't fit in a coach seat without squishing your neighbors, you need to pay for two seats, an upgrade to business class, or not fly.
Whatever at January 22, 2010 1:02 AM
Just like the last time, I think the real problem is the seats. I could use to lose some weight (I have managed to lose a few #s) and I can still easily fit between the armrests but my shoulders are still in the neighboring seats. I would love to go business class but that is usually not reasonable. Last time I compared, the econ flight was $700 and business was $8000...yep, over 10x more. Although on that same flight, I have paid for a gate upgrade that was only $500. I expect 10x the room for 10x the price (should be more...quantity discount and all)...so a 54x101 inch space (if I did my math correctly).
support Boeing: During the development of the 777 family of planes, Boeing took their findings and decided to add 5 inches to the width of the plane. It permitted them to put in wider, 18.5" seats without diminishing the overall capacity.
from http://www.independenttraveler.com/resources/article.cfm?AID=161&category=13
The Former Banker at January 22, 2010 1:05 AM
This policy isn't at all new. Ranting billionaire megaslob Rush Limbaugh has had to do this.
Patrick at January 22, 2010 1:52 AM
I wonder how the Israelis handle this. Profiling?
Flynne at January 22, 2010 3:08 AM
Easy to solve this and the luggage problem. Sell air travel by weight of you and your luggage. Flight from NY to LA, that will be $2.50/ lb. Now you and your luggage get on the scale.
Will have the added benifit causing people to loose weight and pack less.
Joe at January 22, 2010 7:19 AM
Previous comment: that was my idea -- pay by weight of you and your baggage -- basic ticket is $x, over x pounds the cost doubles.
One trip in Canada we were next to large people who were demanding they have free right to empty business class seats. Didn't work.
And the seats are too small -- last trip I had to stand most of the way because my legs were numb --and I'm small boned, female, 5'4 under 120 lbs.
ps my first time here -- your doggie photo is gorgeous
dlm at January 22, 2010 7:53 AM
I knew I loved Southwest. I won't fly anyone else, although they aren't immune to stupidity either. They did try to make my 3 year old sit on a different row from me. Um, no, not unless you do want a crying kid the whole flight.
momof4 at January 22, 2010 8:09 AM
If I could afford it, I'd buy two seats all the time.
I want to see a sign before you get on the plane--"Must be this wide to ride." Like the height requirement signs at amusement parks.
Pricklypear at January 22, 2010 8:27 AM
>>I had a guy behind me playing Tetris or something. Half the flight, peck, pound, peck, jab, jab, peck, pound. I about went Al Qaeda on his irritating arse.
Beautifully described, Steve B!
Jody Tresidder at January 22, 2010 8:45 AM
I'm with the former banker... I have no problem with the south end fitting in the seat... it's the 2 feet across of shoulder. I try to choose exit rows so that there is enough room for my legs. IFF there is enough room there, then I can twist my hips and shoulders around and cheat the space, allowing me to not inpinge my seatmates. I have also found that most seat styles have armrests that can be flipped up. If you are on either end of the row, you can release the outside armrest via a lever at it's base, and use those extrat 2 inches to sit in. If you are stuck in the middle though... you're so screwed.
Which? Combined with all the other irritation of air travel? I only fly when I have to.
SwissArmyD at January 22, 2010 9:35 AM
you can release the outside armrest via a lever at it's base, and use those extrat 2 inches to sit in. ~~~~
Watch the drink cart please. Watch the drink cart please. Watch the drink cart please.
~~~
All this talk of broad shoulders *swoon*
MeganNJ at January 22, 2010 10:30 AM
I am traveling today. Sat next to an aviation consultant that used to for United. He confirmed 2/3 configuration vs the 3/3 of today on a 757.
Jim P. at January 22, 2010 10:38 AM
"Watch the drink cart please. Watch the drink cart please. Watch the drink cart please." MeaganNJ
But of course, when being polite to your seatmates, don't be rude to the flight crew...
swoon? *clears throat* twern't nothing, ma'am...
SwissArmyD at January 22, 2010 10:55 AM
Delta was supposedly switching to a new type of seat ("Cozy Suite") that would make it harder for a large person to fit across two seats. This article from early 2009 says their ETA is sometime in 2010. Anybody heard anything more recent about this?
Pseudonym at January 22, 2010 11:16 AM
> Beautifully described, Steve B!
He misspelled "ass".
Crid at January 22, 2010 12:58 PM
don't be rude to the flight crew...
I was worried they'd dent your sturdy lumberjacklike shoulder dah'ling
we have to preserve our national treasures
MeganNJ at January 22, 2010 1:30 PM
>>He misspelled "ass".
Not so, actually.
A taster for you, Crid.
"It seems Howard has come across at least one American wondering why the British "put an /r/ in ass", when, of course, the real question is why Americans have taken the /r/ OUT of arse. There are many useful discussions of arse/ass available...."
And here's a super little freshly made link just for you so you can study the rest of the long article in your own sweet-arse time and learn. You're so very welcome.
http://tiny.cc/mnBT6
Jody Tresidder at January 22, 2010 2:13 PM
I used to have to fly out to customer sites and my first segment was almost always the same and so the flight attendants recognized me. We got to the point of an understanding that they would just push my shoulder out of the way - we all knew it had to happen so why all the "pardon me"s? and sorries?
The Former Banker at January 22, 2010 3:49 PM
I take the train to work everyday and I hate sitting next to obese people, I will actually look to see how big someone is before I sit down if it's in a 2 seater (same as planes one row 2 seats the other 3 seats). The funny thing is, the newer cars have bigger seats, how sad is that.
Nina at January 22, 2010 5:14 PM
> You're so very welcome.
Hie thee to the dentist! (You loves the Simpsons, no?)
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at January 22, 2010 6:09 PM
I think the guy next to me smashing me against the window was probably 500 lbs.
The larger (ahem) question here is the likelihood that aircraft floors and seat attachments are likely not stressed for such outsized loads.
++++
Back in the 90s, American Airlines responded to complaints about legroom. They widely advertised pulling two rows out of coach, thereby adding 2 - 4 inches between the remaining rows.
Of course, since revenue is based upon number of seats, the cost per seat went up by (IIRC) roughly $10.
Turns out people preferred spending $10 less to legroom.
Perhaps the airlines aren't to blame.
Hey Skipper at January 22, 2010 6:10 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/01/22/air_france_and.html#comment-1690438">comment from Hey SkipperI'm in Phoenix at the moment, waiting for my flight to LA. Interestingly, a really fat man was seated in my row, but he had two seats. I wondered if he'd bought two or they just gave him two. (USAir -- not sure how they work it for the very, very, very large.)
Amy Alkon at January 22, 2010 7:15 PM
Of course, if someone does buy two seats in order to fit without
encroaching on others, it doesn't help if the airline assigns the
second seat somewhere down the aisle. Read some of the
tribulations of somebody who does regularly buy extra
seating room.
http://cahiers-elizabeth.blogspot.com/2009/12/two-seats.html
Ron at January 22, 2010 7:17 PM
The airline that did the legroom test was not a good test from my experiance.
First, as they said at the time, most people rated width as a higher priority, but they could only easily change the legroom.
Second, it is $10 more than their regular fee.
They only did it with a few planes. In all the travelling I did during that period, only once was it option. And they wouldn't guarantee it (or refund it). Now here was the clincher...I could go with the competition for like 3/4 the cost.
As a 6ft person, for a short flight -- say 3 hours or so -- the legroom is fine and I certainly was going to save $100. At 6 hours, I am paying the $100.
The Former Banker at January 22, 2010 7:46 PM
Then again there is the aroma of the awful airport burrito wafting into my olfactory space.
Mbruce at January 22, 2010 9:30 PM
>>Hie thee to the dentist! (You loves the Simpsons, no?)
Is it still gnawing at you then, Crid?
Getting rumbled using a coinage from that show as your own?
Jody Tresidder at January 23, 2010 4:53 AM
> Getting rumbled using a coinage
> from that show as your own?
I can't read that.
> Then again there is the aroma of
> the awful airport burrito wafting
> into my olfactory space.
It's evil, like Target popcorn. It doesn't smell like food, it smells like food stabilizier, stabilizing.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at January 23, 2010 7:11 AM
Rush is not fat any more. Also, I think he has his own plane; I think it is a Gulf Stream V.
ken in sc at January 23, 2010 7:07 PM
The Simpsons > Family guy > American Dad
The Simpsons at September 15, 2010 12:46 PM
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