I buy my bacon at Trader Joe's, not at Whole Foods.

I am not thrilled about having to pay top dollar for bacon (which is why I asked for some suggestions on where to buy a lower cost option earlier).

I also would be eating processed meats with nitrates or nitrites in them (or msg, or smoke flavorings) if I didn't have unpleasant reactions to them(for one, too much of it makes me amped up like I drank a pot of coffee in one sitting , which is not helpful to a medical condition I have).

I've kept a food journal for sometime now, this happened to be a pattern I noticed.

Interesting articles. Unfortunately, they don't apply to the particular reason why I posted my comment to begin with (just to keep everything in context).

I will, however, be checking out Costco for the bacon low in nitrates this weekend.

And just to be fair, it could be on of many ingredients in the regular bacon giving me problems.

I usually fair better with bacon that has less additives. Unfortunately, these are always the more expensive ones.

The "all natural" and "bio" hysteria leads to ridiculous results. For example, I remember reading an article about different apple varieties. Many old-fashioned varieties must be sprayed with insecticides if you don't want worms. Some newer varieties don't require this, and hence, sell better to the "whole foods" crowd.

If you do a chemical analysis of the apples, you find that the new varieties naturally contain pesticides - that's why they don't get worms. The big difference: pesticides sprayed on the outside of the fruit mostly wash off. If the pesticides are an integral part of the fruit, you wind up eating them. The "bio" apples may actually be more dangerous that the ones sprayed with pesticides.

I dont think people realise what a small amount of the earths vegitation is acctually edible to humans

Personally, I pay more money for Niaman Ranch bacon for a few reasons, and nitrites aren't really at the top of the list (though they do feature). I just think it's better to get meat that was raised humanely, and with as little chemical or hormonal nastiness as possible. Naiman Ranch might not be my local pig farmer exactly, but it's better than most of what passes for "meat" at the national grocery chains. Plus, it's totally delicious. Is that worth $5/pack to me? Heck yes.

MMMM. This makes me feel much better about my bacon and bologna addictions. :D

Reminds me of an article I reading the Atlantic about food. One point was that almond flavoring, which is extracted from peach pits, has a higher arsenic level in the "organic" form than the lab-created form, but the lab-created form is not "natural", so you get more poison in you from the organic/natural food.Using the lower arsenic synthetic flavoring does not allow the mfr to label it as all natural.

Damn, it's only nine o'clock but I want a BLT bad. (I like it all, carbs, meat and vegies.)

Plus Niman Ranch tastes a lot better. But then I don't eat a lot of meat, and when I do, I'm willing to pay for it. Cheap meat isn't worth it.

Bruce,

I think it's cyanide that's in almonds, not arsenic, because the tree can't handle arsenic any better than we can. Not that it makes that much diffenrence, I guess.

"I dont think people realise what a small amount of the earths vegitation is acctually edible to humans"

It depends on the people of course, but actually what most of us in this country don't realize is how much is edible. A big range of weeds are really good and things like chrysanthemums and daylilies were origianlly grown as vegetables. The whole nasturtium plant is pretty good, although the leaves are a little strong. A lot of seaweeds are good and tasty. We concentrate on such a narrow range of species these days because we have such a huge variety within those species. Beets and chard are pretty diffent, for instance.

I don't like biting into an aple and finding it all worm-eaten, but I don't mind a wormhole here and there. I figure if a bug won't even eat it, I tend to lose interest too.

Hey, Feebie, I would extend on what Sarah said and look for a local farmer to get your meats from. Maybe you can even ask them to cure it differently for cured meat. The closer you are to the producer, the more control you have.

And Tasty Too.

Do not confuse nitrite in food with the cancer-causing nitrosamines-NDMA found in bacon, cheese, and beer. Ingesting nitrite along with the anit-oxidants naturally occurring in vegetables has not been found to cause cancer. Consuming a diet high in foods containing NDMA is linked with increases in stomach cancer. Adding ascorbic acid to food reduces the formation of NDMA , but by how much?

Thanks, Swiss. I am working on going in with a few friends to buy a pig and cow and have them butchered locally. Just need the freezer space, which I am working on.

For right now, I am trying to check some alternatives in the interim while I look for a deal on a used freezer chest...

And for the record - I love meat!

http://www.springerlink.com/content/n785801041063712/
Dominique Pobel1, Elio Riboli1 Contact Information, Jacqueline Cornée2, Bertrand Hémon1 and Monique Guyader2
(1) International Agency for Research on Cancer, 150 cours Albert Thomas, F-69372 Lyon, France
(2) INSERM, Unité 265, Marseille, France

Accepted: 17 November 1994
Abstract A case-control study on gastric cancer and diet was conducted in Marseille (France). Ninety-two patients with histologically confirmed adenocarcinoma and 128 controls undergoing functional reeducation for injuries or trauma were interviewed by a trained dietician using a dietary history questionnaire on their usual diet during the year preceding the first symptoms for cases, or preceding interview for controls. Intake of nitrite, nitrate and pre-formed N-nitrosodimethylamine (NDMA) from food was estimated using a food composition table compiled ad hoc. Odds ratios (ORs) were calculated after adjustment for age, sex, occupation and calorie intake. The results indicated that high intake of NDMA was associated with increased risk for gastric cancer. The ORs for the second and third tertile of NDMA intake were: OR2=4.13 (95% CI=0.93 to 18.27) and OR3=7.00 (95% CI=1.85 to 26.46). Intake of nitrate and nitrite was not associated with increased risk of stomach cancer. Consumption of vegetables was protective in general and independent of their estimated nitrate content.

Wondering if anyone could address the issue of what the animal consumes? Part of the reason I have been buying bacon and sausage from Whole Foods is that the pigs are field-fed instead of corn-fed.

Regardless we have come into contact with a local farmer and are buying a whole pig next fall. The pigs will eat field peas, clover, and oats, versus corn. From what I understand we end up with what the animal ate and we all know corn is filler with little nutritional value.

Rushing, because I'm in Traverse City, about to go to a TV interview, but that looks like a cohort study...weak. Association, not causality. No time to explain now - if somebody here is able, please do. Going to one TV thing then another.

I switched to nitrate-free bacon when I was pregnant because I was advised by my doctor to limit nitrate/chemical consumption during gestation. Now that I've had my son, I've been buying the regular stuff again, but while he was in the womb I chose to spend the few extra bucks rather than take chances. Nitrates and additives don't bother my system, but you can't be too careful when it comes to the developing fetus.

Feebie, what you are referring to regarding the pesticide in the apple is really only for genetically-modified produce, which generally are avoided by those who are trying to avoid pesticides. Pesticide use is something that is sometimes necessary, but a balanced approach is needed. IE, there are some foods which can absorb pesticides quickly into them meaning you're more likely to consume them (eg spinach) than others (eg bananas). Look up "The dirty dozen" which lists the ones that have the biggest potential for absorption. If you limit your buying of oranic produce to these, you are probably fine.

As far as nitrites and nitrates, I've heard stuff in both directions, so thanks for linking both Dr. Eades take and Sandy Szwarc's in one spot. I'll now need to go back and look at the anti-nitrite stuff I've been sent and see how things compare.

My main complaint about this is while there may or may not be an issue with nitrites/nitrates, the way meat is marketed in the US, the cheapest meat with these in them (and even some pricier ones) tend to be from CAFO's, whereas the ones without nitrites tend to have fewer additives in general, and the pigs at least lead a slightly better life than in the standard CAFO. Eating from local (hopefully sustainable) farms where you know the farmer is the optimal choice, but one that not all of us have access to and/or can afford. Nitrites may or may not be a red herring, but I do think we need to try to make our purchasing decisions not just about that one aspect but about the overall nature of the source of our meat/produce.

Not that it necessarily applies to you, Feebie, but in my 20's I used to get bad jitters/heart racing, etc. when I ate MSG and some cured meats. Over the years it seems to have diminished. Not sure if its because there's less MSG in things or because I adapted, but you might consider an occassional experiment (not having a clue how old you are, of course!).

Um, Joan? Right in the introduction is the sentance:
"There is no firm proof of the carcinogenicity of nitrosamines in humans..." Then goes on to discuss how the data appears confusing, and how complex it is to figure out the concentrations you get of Nitra elements, because it varies a lot in the samples...

So... in the last 15 years have there been lots of other studies about this telling more? If the study of a mediterranean area with a very low incindence of stomach cancer mortality points to anything, do they eat a lot of processed meats? Has anybody done a study where the Nitra elements come form things like celery-juice?

With as much of our food that has this in it in the developed world, you'd think this would be an issue on the front burner, but I don't see much else on it.

Do you have links to other studies? [remember one link per post to avoid spamfilter]

Amy - I understand that the study does not prove causality between nitrosamine and cancer, however, there would be severe ethical dilemmas with conducting a prospective study using substances that have been proven to cause cancer in animals. The study cited does show no correlation between nitrite consumption and stomach cancer. But that does not mean that bacon and vegetables are equally safe.
Frying bacon at high heat creates nitrosamines. The fat drained from the bacon will have a higher level of the nitrosamines. Cooking bacon in a microwave produces lower levels. Due to government regulations reducing the level of nitrates added to meat, and adding erythorbic acid, the level found in cooked bacon nowadays is much lower than in the 70's. so bacon is safer than it used to be. See
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/f-w00/nitrosamine.html

Also see:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jf960973b?cookieSet=1
for a discussion of current levels of nitrosamines in bacon. Note the range of .3 to 25 microgram/kg - you don't know which you are getting. Based on this, I would not eat very much bacon, and certainly not cook in bacon fat.

Levi, not following the apples (i think that may have been someone else?) but I have an apple tree on my property (and an orange, and a peach). I don't buy fruit at the store (except for the occasional berries once in a while), so when I do it fruit it's straight off the tree. Most of it goes to neighbors though.

I've always been sensitive to MSG, caffeine and alcohol. While I've cut alcohol out completely, going on two years now - I've noticed that caffeine from tea hardly affects me, where as with coffee - I get rapid breathing, nausea and dilated pupils (like a cat). Any high amounts of sugar will send me into a blood sugar balance pretty quick (Hypoglycemia).

I believe I just have a really sensitive system.

So, with the bacon, - I experience hardly any reactions to the uncured, low additive type bacons. I really can't say which specific additive it is - I just know things can get unpleasant when I eat the high-additive bacon in abundance or daily.

SwissAmyD - Looks like I got 2 links in.
Nitrosamines been proven to cause cancer in animals, and that may be the closest we can get due to the ethical limitations of studying humans.
I did not see anything more recent regarding formation of nitrosamines endogenously in the stomach. Would be interesting - what role do the anti-oxidants play in preventing this? However, enough science exists regarding the harm of consuming nitrosamines /NDMA for there to be established limits on this stuff in drinking water.

Joan, that's fascinating stuff [your second link is broken] It looks like the amonts of the element have been falling for quite a while, but that you get a shot of the compounds 170X as much if you smoke... I wonder how much the people in Marsailles smoked, and if that was accounted... and how such a carcinogen is expressed in the body. It's true that you can't introduce such things into humans directly, but you can certainly study them in terms of what people already do. Seems like this would be studied in Stomach cancer studies as is...

I am just wondering in the cocktail of chemistry that is our life what the proportions of issue with this is versus anything else. Remember the blowup over saccherine? Where you had problems if you consumed 500x as much as recommended, and so they decided it must be carcinogenic because of that? The way the stories are worded, I just have the feeling that like many other carcinogens the threshold required to make things happen is quite close to the background noise of life.

It's kinda like the person who doesn't drink diet soda because of all the "junk" in it, but drinks 6 cans of redbull a day, and can't figure out why they might be having problems. It's probably far more carcinogenic to live anywhere near a big city, but we don't ban them... sorry, I just don't see the huge problem you see, but that's OK. Because you can just not eat cured meat of any kind, and you'll be fine.

OTOH, it IS very nice that you have some science to help you out with your proofs, I'm just at the point where I don't see the magnitude.

If broccoli were not grandfathered as a "vegetable", it could not be approved by the EPA for human consumption, because of the natural carcinogens it contains.

Plants Make Their Own Pesticides

Since we have been eating vegetables throughout our evolution, it is theorized that we have evolved to handle the substances contained in them. But adding that substance to meat and heating it at high temperatures produces a chemical we have not evolved to handle. This was discovered by noticing that farm animals fed feed preserved with nitrates got cancer at high rates. The feed contained fish - this led to banning nitrates in fish, which contains methylamine. Methylamine + nitrate = NDMA.

Smokers have a high incidence of stomach and bladder cancer - probably one reason why is the nitrosamine. I would think that the Marseille study controlled for smoking and other known cancer risk factors - don't think it would have been published if it did not.
I do appreciate learning about how so-called natural bacon contains nitrate from celery juice powder - so it's no better than the kind with nitrates.

"Smokers have a high incidence of stomach and bladder cancer - probably one reason why is the nitrosamine. "

As I understand it, European cigarettes are different from American made ones. One huge difference is the additives.

Not advocating a safe way to smoke tobacco, however, if this test study were to be done taking this into account, it may need to qualify the fact that European cigarettes are all tobacco for the most part - where American cigarettes have a lot of crap in them, including ammonia.

Straight tobacco with no additives also doesn't burn as fast, so people smoking them tend to smoke less.

Feebie, and anyone else buying a freezer, I advocate for the uprights instead.

Less floor space.
Much easier to access.
Kid safe/friendly.
Easier to organize.

I bought a chest freezer several years ago, and still regret it. The ~$110 I saved has more than been made up by the amount of spoilage/ freezer burn of stuff cycled to the bottom and missed.

Amy, are you going INSIST that people eat as many additives as their bellies can hold (or at least temporarily accept)?