Now There's A Rent-A-Parent
There's an article in Details, Are You Raising A Douchebag, that echoes a lot of stuff I say in "The Underparented Child" chapter of my book, and that also mentions a new sort of job, the brat tamer. David Hochman writes:
Sharon Pieters sees kids with terrible behavior make the turnaround week after week, and it has everything to do with parenting, she says. The former nanny runs Child Minded, a parent-coaching company that goes into homes to vanquish the Scylla and Charybdis of offspring hell: disrespect and boorishness. For $1,200 a day, Pieters will help parents tame their brats. Whether it's a problem with too much stuff ("I visited some kids in Long Island who had their own moon bounce," Pieters says) or incessant back talk ("Some children's vocabulary is limited to 'Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!'"), the solution is the same: "Set limits and stick to them." The hard part for most moms and dads is admitting there's a problem in the first place. Borba, the parenting writer, says, "The last thing parents today want after a day of work is to come home and be a cop. They think it's going to hurt the child's self-esteem to get a hard no. But you have to look at your kids and say, 'Are they turning out the way I want them to turn out?' If not, it's up to you to start to change things."
More and more I am fascinated at the things that people are now willing to pay for. And if they aren't willing to pay for them, what people will go on television to get for free.
I swear, I could be a millionaire if it wasn't for these damn ethics.
Vinnie Bartilucci at February 24, 2010 5:12 AM
Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay,
I like that "former nanny".
(thinking) (thinking) (thinking)
THOUGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's make a state.
Let's call it Caleeeeefornia.
Let's have the governor be a really neat action hero.
Let's have him be ineligible to serve as President.
... for the same reason Barry Hussein should be kicked out on his ass.
...
No,
Wait.
No one would ever believe it.
Ken at February 24, 2010 5:25 AM
My kids have their own moon bounce. We set it up at parties. I know a lot of parents with their own. With 4 kids, it's just way more cost efficient than renting, and I am a huge fan of thigns that tire my kids out. We don't own any game systems.
We take lessons for driving, golfing, cooking, etc, why not parenting? Seems like a good idea to me, and if before you ahve them is best, before they graduate is better than nothing!
momof4 at February 24, 2010 5:35 AM
1200 a day? Just pester SuperNanny or Nanny 911 until they put you on a show. Much cheaper and you'll likely get a nice consolation prize out of the deal...if you don't mind your horrible parenting skills being showcased in most English speaking countries.
Patrick at February 24, 2010 5:43 AM
"We take lessons for driving, golfing, cooking, etc, why not parenting?" Lessons for what many people see as recreation versus lessons for raising a child? This is a matter of common sense, not simply one of personal tastes. Raising a child isn't a matter of deciding whether to use a nine-iron on a fairway, or of using a little more oregano in the tomato sauce. It's a matter of helping that child grow into a responsible and rational adult, of trying to make this a more sane and livable world. If someone cannot make blatantly common sense decisions regarding their kids' behavior and the reasonably presumable results of that behavior, then maybe they shouldn't become parents, no matter how many lessons they get.
William Johnson at February 24, 2010 6:34 AM
As the Fonz used to say- Exactamundo Amy.
David M. at February 24, 2010 6:48 AM
Lessons for what many people see as recreation versus lessons for raising a child?
Which is, perhaps, why parenting classes may be even more important than driving classes and cooking classes. There's a lot of conflicting information in the world of child psychology. My fiance and I are planning to have a baby withing the next couple of years, and I'm bumping up against a lot of bullshit. (If anyone's interested, NurtureShock is a wonderful, well-researched look at why kids are the way they are.)
I'd rather these people admit that the parenting tactics they are using are not working and get help than put their heads in the sand and pretend everything is fine. They can't unmake their children, but they can be better parents.
MonicaP at February 24, 2010 6:53 AM
We've had complete strangers come up to us in restaraunts and compliment us on how well-behaved our children are.
Sadly, that's become some sort of noteworthy event, so extraordinary that it stuns people into making a point of highlighting it.
Have most "parents" just flat given up on keeping their spawn from acting like complete douchebags in public places?
Newsflash: If you make it clear early on that such behavior is not tolerated, and you're willing to be the "bad guy" to see that it's enforced, it's amazing the kinds of results you can get.
Steve B at February 24, 2010 7:03 AM
I am older, saw my kids raised, not all are perfect, but somewhat within the normal range SO FAR. ;) The youngest is 34 and I will not stop worrying about them as long as I live.
I never claimed to be a perfect parent, but I tell you, even in the 80's and 90's. the problem was bad advice.
Just like the morons who pass for doctors today telling everyone to eat lots of carbs and no fat, parents are being told good parenting means get your kids in organized activities.
Public school all day. And, all night and weekend, karate, dance; kid clubs; sports; etc., etc.
When kids are with other kids, they are learning to grow up to be kids, not adults. Their peers are kids, not their parents. Their parents and all adults are the enemy, and they don't change by magic when they turn 18.
So, what you have today is parents who never learned to be adults, and today they are the parents.
How can anyone who was allowed to grow up to be a kid teach their kids how to behave like adults?
If you think this is bad, wait until the next generation -- assuming the Huns haven't come in and fixed it all. Heh, heh.
\
irlandes at February 24, 2010 7:30 AM
"If someone cannot make blatantly common sense decisions regarding their kids' behavior and the reasonably presumable results of that behavior, then maybe they shouldn't become parents, no matter how many lessons they get."
Yes, but the problem is that stupid people are too stupid to know they're stupid.
Pirate Jo at February 24, 2010 7:41 AM
*****We've had complete strangers come up to us in restaraunts and compliment us on how well-behaved our children are.
Sadly, that's become some sort of noteworthy event, so extraordinary that it stuns people into making a point of highlighting it.*****
Wow, was that me? I see good parenting so infrequently that yes, I do go up and compliment good parents. I think it happens about three times a year. And no, I'm not exaggerating.
Seriously, people, YOU ARE A PARENT, NOT YOUR KID'S BFF. Grow a pair and make them behave.
Ann at February 24, 2010 7:46 AM
Eh. I'm not feeling particularly harsh on them. They know there's a problem. That's why they're paying a ridiculous amount of money to get help. They're already a step above people who think there's absolutely nothing wrong with their little monsters.
MonicaP at February 24, 2010 7:50 AM
"We take lessons for driving, golfing, cooking, etc, why not parenting? Seems like a good idea to me, "
Yes. Because:
"So, what you have today is parents who never learned to be adults, and today they are the parents.'
Also, people work to change their life circumstances and find what they observed as a chiild and base their parenting on doesn't work any more. In a hungry society, food is love. When food is cheap and super-abundant, it becomes destructive indulgence. A poor immigrant or the first generation out of the backwoods wants his or her kids to have the best of everything; if those kids copy that, you end up with hopeless brats. Somtimes you may know something is wrong, but not how to fix it.
Jim at February 24, 2010 8:40 AM
So, what you have today is parents who never learned to be adults, and today they are the parents.
Exactly! And you know what else? Those same people are the ones who are in charge of other things, like businesses and such, and are still acting like kids when things don't go their way. There are so many people out there who have no idea of what personal responsibility is, because their parents never taught them. Good call, irlandes.
Flynne at February 24, 2010 8:48 AM
I actually watched a couple of episodes of those "Nanny 911" and "Super Nanny" or whatever shows. In every one of them, the problem was the parents. The nanny had very little trouble taking control of the situation. The parents couldn't take control.
And I see it everyday with friends who have to beg or bribe their children to behave. Or have to explain in great detail why the child must cannot bend the cat in half while the child stares at them uncomprehendingly. Or negotiate with the child the amount of vegetables that must be eaten before receiving dessert. Or get shushed when interrupting Precious on her cell phone.
And I also see it everyday with friends who refuse to respect Junior's boundaries, removing his bedroom door so he can't have any privacy or randomly checking his iPod playlists for objectionable songs or trying live vicariously through the offspring by being involved in every minute detail of his life.
When I described the overbearing childrearing tactics of one friend to another (psychology major), he commented, "well, if they're trying to raise a serial killer...."
Conan the Grammarian at February 24, 2010 9:46 AM
I recommend a book called 1-2-3 magic for all new parents... it goes farily far in depth about not only what to do, but also why it works, and why you need to keep doing it. One idea that always stuck with me: If you think they are hard to deal with at 2, imagine how it will be when they are teenagers. Learn how to deal with them now... [paraphrased]
It's not that many people need such a book, really... It's more that people remember the things they hated about what their parents did, and look to books to tell them what the best option is. EVEN IF that option is one their parents used, they want independent confirmation. My ex and I were raised in very different households... and I have kid sisters... So I had an idea how things might work. Sadly what that meant was that I was always the bad cop; "wait till your father gets home"...
But.
That is why my 15.5 year old son NEVER back talks me. Sometimes all I do is arch an eyebrow. But he knows exactly what the rules are with me. If you are capricious, always changing the rules, the kid pushes the boundry even more, to see what the rule will be.
Nothing is perfect, but setting rules, and NOT CHANGING THEM, works. Of couse the rules have to be good ones to start with...
SwissArmyD at February 24, 2010 10:01 AM
Sometimes all I do is arch an eyebrow. But he knows exactly what the rules are with me.
I have never heard my father-in-law yell in the 17 years I've known him. And those 17 years encompassed much of his time raising his second 'batch' of kids. He is very loving and all of his kids speak easily with him, but they learned early what the lines were and they were consistently applied, and some of the kids were the rebellious type, but they were brought back to the straight and narrow each time they pushed. He has ended up with some pretty well adjusted adult children as a result.
-Julie
JulieW at February 24, 2010 10:19 AM
My husband and I also get complitmented in restaurants because our son is behaving so well. Mostly by older ladies that raised their own children many years ago. It's always nice because our son is a handful, somedays correcting and setting limits and sticking to them is literally a whole day process. At 6 years old he has all the energy of a crack head and only a little more common sense but we're sure working on it. It's really ridiculous to me that everyday all over town (we live in a nice suburb) we see parents who "waited until they were responsible and ready" (i.e. 35 plus) to have kids and they have the most disrespectful brats you've ever seen. I saw one 10-12 year old tell his dad to "Shut up" at the school carnival in front of probably 10 other parents. *Jaw on the floor* OH MY LORD, my kid would not see a toy, video game, tv, or any idea of fun until (maybe) his next b-day if he ever talked to me like that! Of course, he never would because he knows better. Also, my son is not physically punished either. I think that's an important thing to add. I became a mom at 21 and still manage to parent better then people almost twice my age even though they are all the ones that will point and say "She's far too young and irresponsible to have kids" As there kid is hitting them and demands toys. Yeah, sure I'm the irresponsible one!
Sorry, I guess that went on forever. Bad parents piss me off just a little! haha
CC at February 24, 2010 11:41 AM
irlandes: Just like the morons who pass for doctors today telling everyone to eat lots of carbs and no fat
No doctor in the history of the world has ever told a patient to do that.
Conan: I actually watched a couple of episodes of those "Nanny 911" and "Super Nanny" or whatever shows. In every one of them, the problem was the parents. The nanny had very little trouble taking control of the situation. The parents couldn't take control.
I've seen some of those, too. And amazingly, they've never struck a child nor have they ever encouraged a parent to strike a child. In fact, they object at the very suggestion of such a thing.
Conan: And I see it everyday with friends who have to beg or bribe their children to behave. Or have to explain in great detail why the child must cannot bend the cat in half while the child stares at them uncomprehendingly. Or negotiate with the child the amount of vegetables that must be eaten before receiving dessert. Or get shushed when interrupting Precious on her cell phone.
Ugh. Who's the kid? Heir Presumptive to the British throne?
Patrick at February 24, 2010 1:03 PM
Hey everybody, your kids are darlin.
So what?
Big deal.
I could care less.
Do they fart?
Do they shit?
Does their shit stink?
Ken at February 24, 2010 1:42 PM
Next guy that says nanny is going to really regret it.
Trust me.
Ken at February 24, 2010 1:44 PM
Nanny.
Patrick at February 24, 2010 3:41 PM
Nanny Nanny Boo Boo.
Sorry. Long day and all that.....
Juliana at February 24, 2010 4:26 PM
For those who haven't heard of him already, check out Dr. John Rosemond's website and books. One book is titled "Because I Said So!" However, he also likes to say: "I am not the anti-Spock."
(He also, back in 2000, made Dr. Laura furious when he said that it's OK for a four-year-old to be put into an after-school program so Mommy can work outside the home - and, he added, even if she WERE a SAHM, the boy should still revolve around her, not the other way around.)
lenona at February 24, 2010 5:45 PM
Speaking of parents who never learned to be adults because they never interact with them, hasn't Amy said something like that on here before? Something about how kids do best when in mixed-age groups. So the younger kids learn how to act when they are a little older, and the older kids get a little responsibility interacting with the younger ones. Letting your kid interact only with others his age would seem to be stunting his emotional growth.
And lenona, ditto on the kids revolving around the parents. Your kids do not get to be Czar and Czarina of the house. They do what you say, not the other way around. Too many parents are afraid to say "no." I have actually heard parents brag about not believing in the word "no." Well, their kids grow up to be brats because they never had any boundaries. That's how kids learn how to behave in polite society, by butting up against all the walls (parents, teachers, rules, laws) and finding the correct course. Placing restrictions and boundaries on small children actually makes them feel safer, because there are clear-cut rules about what they must not do.
NumberSix at February 24, 2010 8:29 PM
I've got some friends whose solution is to forego actual parenting in favor of repeatedly insisting, "It's just a stage, they'll grow out of it."
Yeah, that's why your son's in therapy for "rage issues."
Steve B at February 24, 2010 10:54 PM
There are entire parenting groups here in Austin that revolve around not saying no, and other permissive crap. I got kicked out of one, austinmamas, for asking another member why she had a 4 year old kid with a man "who had made her miserable for 14 years" who she was of course now, with a kid, going to divorce and move out of state away from.
They spend a lot of time talking about how the schools aren't meeting their brats needs, and looking for schools that will. Say hello to the next generation of welfare-sucking leftists. Inner city kids have better odds than the spawn of these idiots.
Joining these groups and pissing them off by asking questions like the above (I call it injecting a little common sense) is something I do for fun when I have free time.
momof4 at February 25, 2010 5:53 AM
Joining these groups and pissing them off by asking questions like the above (I call it injecting a little common sense) is something I do for fun when I have free time.
This cracked me up. To get this kind of thrill I go into Best Buy and ask them about LINUX. :-D
-Julie
JulieW at February 25, 2010 7:49 AM
Nanny.
Posted by: Patrick at February 24, 2010 3:41 PM
Nanny Nanny Boo Boo.
Sorry. Long day and all that.....
Posted by: Juliana at February 24, 2010 4:26 PM
OK,
Patrick,
That's it for you, bub. ...
As soon as I can get Amy to adjudicate this, cause we all know she has nothing better to do, than to get involved in this baloney ...
FISICUFFS!,
... and I am not talking just "any" fisticuffs, I am talking "true, legendary, internet reality distances" of ...
75'.
Ken at February 25, 2010 2:46 PM
FISTICUFFS even
Ken at February 25, 2010 3:04 PM
NumberSix said:
Something about how kids do best when in mixed-age groups. So the younger kids learn how to act when they are a little older, and the older kids get a little responsibility interacting with the younger ones. Letting your kid interact only with others his age would seem to be stunting his emotional growth.
And lenona, ditto on the kids revolving around the parents. Your kids do not get to be Czar and Czarina of the house. They do what you say, not the other way around.
_________________________
Don't know about the benefits of "mixed-age groups," per se, if you're only talking about differently-aged kids.
However, Dr. Rosemond has pointed out that a child should NOT be spending most of its time surrounded by ADULTS, per se. The main reason, he said, is that it's far too easy for the child to become the spoiled pet of the adults, whereas with peers, you have to EARN the right to be the star of the show - or to get any attention at all. He also said that adults should spend most of their time with adults - preferably not talking about their children all the time, since adults used to have lives of their own, half a century ago!
Regarding the "revolving" bit: It was clear to me, at least, that Dr. Laura got mad because Rosemond's advice in that area contradicts HER mantra: "I am my kid's Mom."
(Not to mention that, as an abandoned, former "happy housewife" wrote to "Ms." magazine in 1987: "Housewife is NOT a valid career choice because you have no control over your own life. If you lose your husband you can't go down to the employment agency and apply for a new one!")
Finally: One of Rosemond's mantras is: "Want your children to be truly happy, respectful, resourceful and responsible? Put your marriage first." (Or adult life, if single.)
lenona at February 26, 2010 12:41 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/02/24/are_you_raising.html#comment-1698359">comment from lenonaI wrote about this, "age-mixed play," per Peter Gray's research. He and Judith Rich Harris are both great on this. Link here:
http://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2009/06/harried-with-ch.html
Amy Alkon at February 26, 2010 12:48 PM
Don't know about the benefits of "mixed-age groups," per se, if you're only talking about differently-aged kids.
Sorry, lenona, I reread my post and I don't think I was as clear as I could have been. I didn't really mean that six-year-olds learn how to be adults from playing with ten-year-olds. I meant that the younger kids learn how to act when they are two years older, then four years older, and so on. It is a gradual process that comes from interacting with someone a bit older.
Thanks, Amy, for posting the link, I knew it was in there somewhere.
NumberSix at February 26, 2010 2:11 PM
"Finally: One of Rosemond's mantras is: "Want your children to be truly happy, respectful, resourceful and responsible? Put your marriage first." (Or adult life, if single.)"
Except we all know that's crap. Adult life, if single, means dating, and just about teh worst thing you can do to your kids is have a never-ending parade of BF's wandering though. If you want your kids to be happy et el, put parenting first (which you'll note does NOT mean catering to their every whim)
momof4 at February 26, 2010 5:18 PM
"Want your children to be truly happy, respectful, resourceful and responsible? Put your marriage first.(Or adult life, if single.)"
I don't think that's crap, momof4, I think you are reading into it a little too much. I think the point of the above statement was to make sure to show your kids that they are not the sole focus of your life, that you do have other interests besides making cupcakes for their Girl Scout meetings. It's part of showing your kids how to be good adults, which I believe to be a vital part of parenting (one I am glad my parents espoused).
NumberSix at February 26, 2010 8:33 PM
Thanks, NumberSix.
Besides, anyone knows dating doesn't pay the rent (usually). So putting your career first, at least, is something that your kids will understand when they're fifteen or so and realize that if you hadn't done that, there would be no money to finance college - or what ever the kids' ambitions may be.
Not to mention that not everyone dates, and those who do sometimes DO have the discretion not to introduce the S.O. to the kids until they're thinking of marriage.
lenona at February 27, 2010 7:03 AM
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