I have heard some women say they won't date guys they meet in normal, non-rom-com ways because it doesn't make a good story to tell their friends and future children. Personally, I'd much rather hear about some couple that knew each other for a while, liked one another, dated, and then got married. That's the kind of thing that makes me go awwww. I feel that people who need the big story thrive on the drama and not the relationship itself.

Women that have these requirements are the same ones that shout at the age of 40 "Cum inside me or I'll sperm-jack you!!! My eggs are going to dry up!!! I MUST PROCREATE!!!" Then your buddy shows up and shouts at her "Get away from him you bitch!" then he blows out the airlock and she flies out the window...

Here's my ra-ra story that my wife likes to tell...I met a girl under a table at a high school dance and we chatted under the table because I am spineless (instead of doing the other things that should be done under a table)...after graduation I went into the Air Force and came home several years later bright-eyed and bushy-tailed from my fantastical time with spec ops...and ran into her again...we dated, shacked up, got married, I deployed, got back...she has abandonment anger, it's 3 am and I'm typing this rather than sleeping with her...but apparently this is a great story to tell...not too worried though, just got back 2 weeks ago...

@More than men, I think women want not just love, but a great story behind it.
___________

That's probably the best phrasing of it I've seen.

Looking at movies, books, etc., which I think are often emotional porn for women, relationships always start under bad circumstances. One already has to be married or engaged (how many movies climax when someone get left at the alter for another), detached, in some kind of trouble, etc.

I saw a movie recently where a woman was hiding in a bathtub crying during her boyfriends (who had just died) memorial, heard a commotion come in the room and peeked out of the tub, and a friend of her boyfriend's that she never met was actually having a quickie in the bathroom during the memorial. Take a wild guess who her soul mate turned out to be.

And look at the latest fad, this pathetic Twilight series. Women try to tell me the reason they like Edward because he's from the 20s and brings that chivalry back. Oh really? That's what women secretly long for, one of their great grandpa's buddies time warped to now? They aren't drawn to the danger surrounding him being a vampire? Yeah right.

It kind of funny in s sad way when you think about it.

I think the "great story behind it" comment also explains why women are the first to want into a marriage and the first to want out.

Wow, Red, thanks for your service, first of all, and gogs bless you big time! Second of all, back to bed with you! Go give your woman some lovin'!

My story isn't anything great, but it's mine. Had a brief, very torrid affair with this guy I met in high school. He was engaged to another at the time. One of his friends got me stoned drunk the day of his wedding so I didn't show up and ruin it all (thanks, Kenny!). Long story short - Fast forward 24 years, we reconnected because his dad passed. He was in the middle of a divorce. I had already been married and divorced. We got together and have been together ever since. Life is good. Bottom line, if it's meant to be it'll be. Can't force it. People just need to relax and let it happen. Too many people are in too much of a hurry to get what they want when they want it. Life just doesn't happen that way; it's what happens when you're making other plans. If anyone had ever told me back then that BF and I would be together one day, I would have laughed in their face. Strange things happen in strange ways.

(Oh yeah, wish me luck! Job interview today!)

If you believe romance novels and movies, they also want to be stalked and harrassed by a man they've said "no" to a hundred times already. Of course it has to be the RIGHT man, if the wrong man stalks them it's "stalking." What an awesome message to send to boys.

I guess lucky for me my current girlfriend and I have a story to tell. Though she rolls her eyes at people when they say it's "fate" that we met, which makes me happy. All the benefits of a good story and none of the craziness :)

True Dat!

Hmmm...my fiance and I met over Match.com and got together because we were liked each other a lot and were tired of being alone. Like turned to love and here we are.

Sounds like a pretty good story to me.

Like Monica, I met my BF online. It's been ten years, I'm not trading him for a "good story". I think girls get that pricess/white wedding/overly romantic crap shoved down their throats from a very young age, starting with Disney films. Someone needs to point out that Cinderella isn't REAL. :D

Oh, and I'll apologize for the threadjack, but for those of you who were looking for it, here's mom's cough syrup recipe:

1 Tbsp. whiskey
2 Tbsp. honey
1 tsp. lemon

If this is true, I must confess I have no idea what to do with the information.

> I'll sperm-jack you!!! My eggs are going to dry
> up!!! I MUST PROCREATE!!!" Then your buddy
> shows up and shouts at her "Get away from
> him you bitch!" then he blows out the airlock
> and she flies out the window...

That's a fun comment.

> I think the "great story behind it" comment also
> explains why women are the first to want into
> a marriage and the first to want out.

That's a fun comment too. Not every woman is a drama queen, but I think women are more eager to lead love lives that can be written into to pat verbal narratives. Somehow, through a mix of feminine nature and childhood programming, they come to believe there's going to be a book report due on their deathbed, and they'll be expected to share what went down in terms that can be readily comprehended. Some women imagine that these offerings will need support through oral argument, like a courtroom confrontation, where inconsistencies will need to be explained away. Others like to think that the report will be the last word. Some women further intend that this report will describe the excellence of their own character, or the wretchedness of their 'supporting players'.

Open the pod bay doors, Hal.

Plutosdad, I've heard that a man's potential to be labeled a stalker is on direct proportion to how fuckable he is. Male of that what you will.

Trust, are you talking about Catch & Release? Can you blame her? I wouldn't mind having Timothy Olyphant as my soul mate! Haha! Seriously though, I know what you mean, it's very sad that people don't seem to be able to separate a movie meant to entertain from reality.

Good luck Flynne!

and thanks for the recipe Ann!

>>1 Tbsp. whiskey
2 Tbsp. honey
1 tsp. lemon

Sounds close enough to what my wife used, except she's Baptist, so no whiskey, and she did heat the honey/lemon mix. If she weren't Baptist, probably wouldn't have given a 7 year old girl the whiskey, but what do I know?

Last time I told an assembled group of women how my wife now of 34 years and I got together, and her daughter became my daughter, they were all crying when my son came into the room, and he asked, who died? Does that count?

Consider a short film.

When did a women ever throw herself at a guy (other than a celebrity)?
Women are meek, and thus boring, usually.
In my experience, the more-agreesive women end up with the guys, and vice-versa.

Best of luck with the job interview, Flynne!!!

My sweety story is still telling itself - it's like one long conversation that has lasted almost three years. Some of it is not too glamorous - I think we have each prevented the other from having approximately one nervous breakdown apiece. The key ingredient is that we make each other laugh. I hope (and think) our conversation will last many more years.

Married young, Dad young, divorced young - and have been swimming in a pool of crazy women ever since. From age 30 till now, at 47, I've been simply amazed by how completely confused and conflicted most women are about relationships, what they want out of a man, and what they want out of life. Thankfully, I already had a child - an amazing daughter - so I never felt the need to make permanent peace with the broken, lost and/or abusive women I've chanced to encounter. I should say that for about three years after my divorce I wasn't relationship material either.

The important question you leave unanswered, Amy, is why do women want this drama (which is the 'story' you speak of)? My answer; most women believe that their view of life is superior to a man's, and they are very caught up in their abstract conception of how their lives should be rather than dealing with the reality of their partner, and actually playing 50/50 in relationships. I think this comes from political feminism - not equal rights, but rather its explicit assertion of women as morally superior in our society. Simultaneously, woman have given themselves license to weaponize sexuality, while neutering men.

Worse yet, women have been told that they can have it all, that it's their birthright to be mothers, careerists, party girls, virginal-sluts and twinkie chomping organic food fetishists. New York city is a parade of such women, who are mostly just spoiled children, much more like my daughter as a teenager than anything approaching a sentient adult who one would sanely try to build a life with. It boils down to a narcissistic melange of superficiality and self-obsession that is anything but attractive over a sustained period of time.

Men are socialized very differently, at least they used to be. Example: The notion that we can 'have it all' strikes most men as absurd. I remember being very sad about working so much during my daughter's young life (to pay for a stay at home mom - we both felt strongly that we didn't want strangers raising our daughter), but telling myself that the sacrifice of my personal pleasure was worth the gain my daughter would realize, having been raised well by a loving mom. I even realized that I would never get any 'recognition' for doing this, and my then cheating wife and now ungrateful daughter are ample evidence of this. But I expected it - I'm a man, I'm supposed to sacrifice myself. I'm supposed to subjugate my needs in service to something greater. I'm supposed to control my emotions - not relish splashing around in them - which is something that I don't think even occurs to most women.

I will readily admit that this definition of manhood is not universal, and is fading quickly, but the fundamental difference in world view between men and women is still worth examining. Btw, I'm quite content with short term relationships (months) that are casual. What's truly sad is that most women I meet have no such acceptance of who they are or their lives, especially their flaws or contradictions. I've learned to take myself a lot less seriously and just try to enjoy life. I've yet to meet a woman who does the same. They almost all seem like they're in a race to a finish line they can't even define for themselves, let alone describe to someone else. As they get older, the constant gnawing away at themselves makes them nasty - and alone, which is deathlike for them. You wonder why older guys like me date younger women? Sure they're prettier (and they smell better) but really, it's just that they're not so bitter and anxious. I'd actually rather date a woman my age, but single one that I meet is a complete and utter headcase - without exception.

My message? Chill out, ladies, laugh at yourself and this exquisitely ironic and twisted existence that we've charted for ourselves. There is no prize to win, no finish line to cross, sust the people you go on the journey with.

I'm no mathematician, but Randall Munroe is.

I know it's a stereotype, but the reason they exist is because there is often an element of truth to them.

Doesn't everyone in New York dislike everyone else? They will never run out of stories.

"More than men, I think women want not just love, but a great story behind it."

100% true. While few women actually hold out for great story -- most will settle for a decent guy regardless -- all women would prefer an epic romance.

"If this is true, I must confess I have no idea what to do with the information."

You must be stupid.

I think most of you surround yourselves with stupid or at least boring women. I'm nothing special but I'm 25, couldn't give a shit about having my life follow a romantic comedy storyline, and most of the women I know grew out of the princess fantasy around age 20. Mostly, we want to like someone a lot who likes us back. My boyfriend and I had known each other for a long time and just ended up being in the same place at the right time.

so my problem is a lack of good narrative structure?

well, that explains a lot. :devil:

*****Don't be so sure. You can say you have, think you have, but it's a deeply culturally ingrained thing.*****

THIS. I have been and probably always will be a total tomboy, and while I really don't give a crap about princesses or white weddings (and never have) I've often had people try to make me feel bad for it. The pressure from the majority of women who have already fallen for this lie is enormous, and hard to get around. You're looked on as somehow less if you don't care about the big romantic story or the big white wedding. Granted, that's not true for everyone, but I'll bet it is for a large majority.

Glenn, as a twice divorced mom of two in her mid-40's, I could whine and complain about the oh-son-mean-men exactly for the same things you claim only women do. But I won't, because 1) luckily I'm not that bitter and hopefully never will, and 2) I take the part of responsibility that correspond me for my failed marriages. It takes two, you know...

And Amy, regarding the actual thread, yes, I do think that some times women are more interested in the fancy story than the relationship. I had my own fairy tale and the story on how we met and dated was fascinating. A whole lot better than the actual marriage. In my defense, I was 18 by the time, and an idiot.

I like the story behind my second marriage, which goes like this: an ex-boyfriend of mine urged a buddy to ask me out to a movie. I found out later that he (the ex)wanted his friend out of the trailer they were living in (which belonged to the friend) so that he could have some quality time with a married woman he was boinking(another former friend).

I've already gone on out how happy my husband and I are, but I don't think I've mentioned those details before. It worked out nicely, at least for us. He moved me in, which moved my leech-like ex out. The married woman left her husband for another guy altogether! Ah, memories. It's been twenty years, and we still snicker about it.

"In these cases, guys have a tendency to get overwhelmed and beat it."

Interesting choice of words.

That's a little condescending. My mom was our breadwinner and my dad didn't do anything resembling a conventional full-time job (and he's the best dad ever!) so while I've watched as much Disney as anyone, I never expected to have someone sweep in and take care of me. Real life has mattered more than fiction in shaping my expectations.

In a WSJ article a while back, a corporate headhunter complained that clients were "hunting the five-pound butterfly"...ie, requiring candidates to meet so many highly specific requirements that hardly anyone could fit the screen...and most of the requirements didn't matter that much anyhow.

Strikes me that the situation is much the same with those individuals who have 100-item checklists (I heard of one woman who had a 400-item checklist) for potential mates.

My post on the butterfly article is here.

I actually have a great story about how I met my husband...which I'm not going to share here because I like to maintain some semblance of semi-anonymity on the Internet, and the story is very specific. That's not why I love him, but it's fun to tell.

Have we had an epic romance? Well, I love him and he loves me and we're perfect for one another (as opposed to just being perfect, which would be boring), but neither one of us is into artificially created drama, and most epic romances seem to depend on drama. That having been said, who needs artificial drama to have stories to tell? We have plenty, because we like to go out and do fun things. Anyone who can't write their own interesting stories (given sufficient health and resources) isn't trying hard enough.

I have to say, though...I don't know many thirtysomethings who disdain romantic relationships with potential in the interest of living out a real-life rom-com. Of the ones who do seem addicted to drama, I know just as many men as women. Maybe it's just that I don't live in L.A. or NYC; Texans tend to marry earlier and see being married as the norm even in big cities. I think, though, that the women who are over the top tend to get more attention because they can't shut up.

Sam, I am in the same boat as you regarding the Disney movies. I owned and loved all of them when I was a kid, but I understood that it was just fiction. I don't remember ever having explicit conversations about the difference between princess movies and reality, but I know I never expected real life to be like that. Probably because I have great parents who actually taught me to think.

That said, I don't think you have to surround yourself with stupid women to hear about the relationship dramas. I have known otherwise rational women who wanted the romantic meet-cute and tried to build a relationship around it. Amy's right, it's pretty ingrained in our culture, so you don't have to travel far to see it. I feel the same way you do about the princess thing, yet I'm not smug about it, since I have seen the situations myself. It might happen to me, but I force myself to analyze my decisions so I know why I think certain things. It keeps me sane. You know, figuratively speaking.

I work a routine job, work out, own a home, and provide for my Mother. I'm sure that wouldn't make a Great Story (TM) for these women, so up all their noses with rubber hoses.

We met in a calculus class, went to a museum and a few movies, and five years later he proposed. The end.

Here's the thing about good stories. They're always full of drama. Drama = trouble. I do not want drama in my life to the extent I can avoid it. On my TV shows, in my books, and my video games, but not in my life.

Flynne - congrats on having a job interview - I hope you rocked it!

Flynne and Ann - thanks for the respective cough remedies.

Elle, I'm with you -- I've had far more than enough drama in my life already.

I don't know Elle, I quite like drama - afterwards that is when you can look back and laugh. Not so much during! I've gone out with some pretty tempestuous women though, maybe I'm just used to it...or maybe it's that the ones I've picked have been just as passionate in the make-up phase as during the fights, sometimes it's worth putting up with a bit of drama...

On topic, this item reminds of something I was talking about with a friend the other day - some people have so many rules in their life about what's right/wrong, who is acceptable, fixed ideas about how things will happen - and all it does is restrict their choices. They'll give up what could be a good thing because it breaks some social convention or meaningless preference (hair colour is my favourite of these). I've never understood it.