1. Flavor.

2. Vitality— I was twenty before figuring out that leafy spinach was a delight, and that the watery, gravity-humbled nightmare from the cans was a lie. Kids deserve to know that things come from the ground and are living, which is why we want them in our bodies. (The vegetables, not the kids. Usually.)

3. The "export of a set of values" is hardly a mortal sin. People do it all the time.

From the article: Our children are suffering from a lack of any fruits or vegetables whatsoever. Canned, frozen, dried, juiced--anything would help.

Horrors! The article recommends FRUIT! Worse, it recommends JUICING!

Actually, I have reservations about fruit juice myself. Fruit juice, which has no fiber to slow down the absorption, is about the same as Coca-Cola, as far as your pancreas (the gland that produces insulin) is concerned.

Crid, I've always thought cooked spinach is more like seaweed. I agree that spinach is much more appealing raw. I think I was in college shoppinng for myself when I actually noticed that spinach comes as a leaf. And makes a terrific salad.

Spinach is like lettuce: Only good fresh.

But I commonly buy frozen stir-fry vegetable mixes. About the only thing I add is onions (but that's preference). I'm not crazy about canned, but again preference -- but I keep canned tomatoes, corn, peas and base veggies on hand in case I lose power long-term 3+ days) that I have food. Day 2 I'm throwing a barbecue.

Spinach, like asparagus, is an abomination fresh, frozen, boiled, steamed, or any other way it's distributed, sold, or prepared. And don't get me started about lima beans.

There, I've said it. Now I feel better.

Now that I've got it out of my system, the Slate article points out, as if it were ever necessary, that the federal government is something like that old joke about a five-year-old with a hammer -- suddenly everything needs a good whacking.

A bad cook can turn fresh or frozen vegetables into inedible sludge. There is no shortage of bad cooks.

I wish more people disliked spinach and asparagus. That would leave more for me. Brussels sprouts, on the other hand, justify a declaration of war on Belgium.

Many raw vegetables are utterly useless for nutritive value. Your body can't break down the cell walls to get at the nutrients inside.

Asparagus, sauteèd in butter and olive oil with garlic is fantastic. Raw? It's a freaking tree.

And as evil as Belgians are, they had nothing to do with Brussels Sprouts.

Canned vegetables taste like shit. They also creep me out: they're discolored and their texture is off. Frozen are 100x's better as far as taste and texture.

So. Sure, don't push "fresh, fresh, fresh!" on people to the point that they feel they are causing their children physical and emotional distress if they're not served rocket from their own garden with balsamic reduction beside free range chicken (oo, dinner idea!). But for godssakes give them something yummy.

In my experience with kids (I have babysat lots, and lots of kids, all raised in varying ways) they're universally picky. If my memory serves me, they have a stronger sense of taste than adults. Some kids are picky brats. But if you serve up peas that look like they're a bit brown and dead, I wouldn't touch them w/ a ten foot pole. And I like peas!

Preparation can do a lot for making something boring or even a little gross more palatable. For example, I think steamed/wilted spinach tastes pretty rank by itself but with just a little bit of vinegar and salt it's amazing and healthy. Also, having kids help with the meal prep - even if it's canned (blech) - can up their enthusiasm about the food.

Crid: You're right; kids should know carrots come from the ground and grow in the dirt. Get a window planter and throw some carrot seeds in it. We don't need to be blowing tax bucks on subsidies or personal bucks to support buying/buy fresh produce for that reason. Or just walk outside and show them the grass then go to the library and get a fun little book on photosynthesis. You can explain how things grow, by showing them, without having to be a food snob.

"Brussels sprouts, on the other hand, justify a declaration of war on Belgium."

Then you mustn't cook them like I do!

I cut them in half, toss them with lots of olive oil, salt and pepper then roast the shit out them in a 400 degree oven until they are all brown. MMMMMMM!!!!

I love fruits and vegetables and prefer fresh for the taste. My children love fruit but getting them to eat veggies has always been torture so I don't care if they're fresh, frozen, or pulled out of the air, as long as they eat them. And fruit juice is the worst!! Nothing like a glass of sugar in the morning!

The "export of a set of values" is hardly a mortal sin. People do it all the time.

Except that these values are based in deliberately lies, and are diverting resources from more cost effective alternatives. When you're talking about children eating properly, it's time to put away your lifestyle fetishes.

>>I cut them in half, toss them with lots of olive oil, salt and pepper then roast the shit out them in a 400 degree oven until they are all brown. MMMMMMM!!!!

Yuck, Gretchen:) Roasted all-brown brussel sprouts?

(However cooked, that vegetable is totally beyond the pale. Though it's always odd to me - in the US, you buy them in cute little plastic baskets, almost like a delicacy. In the UK, they are cheaper & are sold dumped in big bins - like loose potatoes.)

Yeah, I agree that fresh usually tastes better. However, I'm amazed at the number of people who don't realize that there is such a thing as a growing season. Hey, idiots: you can't just plant and pick anything you want, whenever! There's a reason why the Indian River orange people are only in town at a certain time of the year.

Even people who do realize that there is a growing season don't always fully appreciate the implications. I've done a bit of gardening, and I know that, for example, there's basically a two-month window on tomatoes. Imagine not being able to get tomatoes or cucumbers or lettuce in January. That was what people lived with in the days before refrigeration and freezing -- basically, all of human existence prior to the 20th century. We should consider ourselves fortunate to have been born into the current era.

We should consider ourselves fortunate to have been born into the current era.

Unfortunately, it also means we have a whole lot of people who don't know what food should taste like. Tomatoes in January are of the devil.

I've been wondering about similar questions, especially during the winter: is frozen better than fresh esp. when "fresh" is picked early and shipped from the southern hemisphere? I mean tasting better is one thing, but just the idea of what is more healthy is a question that there is little information on.

Like most I prefer frozen to canned, except for tomatoes and more delicate produce that is destroyed by frozen water crystals.

And no, sorry, Brussels sprouts are an abomination against nature.

Oh one more thing I forgot. I went to a "local" farmer expo (surrounding few states) I got some good info on some CSAs (esp. some pasture finished meat CSAs) but one thing that struck me: there were some workshops on canning and preserving. Many people said if you want to buy local then learning to can yourself is what you "have" to do in order to not waste extra food and have food in the winter.

It sounds like the local fresh produce folks are just as much into canning as Del Monte is.

Jody: One of the store I frequent sells Brussels sprouts in little buckets. Another in a big bin like you describe.

By "all brown" I do mean crispy-brown. Not brown-because-they're-old-and-nasty.

Wtf is with the Brussels sprouts haters! I bet you just had a bad experience when you were very young or grew up with the whole "Brussels sprouts are the universally despised food!" business. I always *thought* I hated them because everyone always says they're the worst thing. Then I saw the Barefoot Contessa whip some up; I tried her method and they were fabulous.

Anything can taste bad if cooked poorly, as mentioned above. Boiled sprouts probably taste like arse. *My* way is delicious, I'm telling you!!

Everyone come over for Brussels sprouts tonight, and if I don't change your mind we can still get drunk because we had a party and have too much beer left.

Thanks, Patrick, for posting about how stupid it is to drink fruit juice.

"Kids deserve to know that things come from the ground and are living, which is why we want them in our bodies."

The problem we have is that many kids don't know what fresh vegetables taste like anymore. That "Food Revolution" guy, Jamie Oliver went to a school in West VA and the kids couldn't recognize a real vegetable. They didn't know a potato from a tomato or a carrot. They were being fed nothing but fried food, and pizza for breakfast. That's really scary.

As a farmer's daughter, I have nothing against frozen vegetables. We froze vegetables and canned fruits all the time. It's perfectly healthy, although canned vegetables usually taste worse than frozen.

I think what matters is how the schools are going to present these foods. If they're just going to slop some canned green beans on a plate, next to the french fries, then they aren't teaching kids to develop an enjoyment of these healthy foods. I don't see anything wrong with them serving a smuch fresh produce as they can.

People who think that they know what 'real' produce looks like should bother to visit a farm - not a show farm, a working farm. What will become quickly apparent is that the ornamental produce they're accustomed to seeing is the result of a very un-PC process of selection, handling, shipping, and presentation. It's very resource intensive to provide pretty produce.

Keep this in mind the next time someone starts harping on the social and environmental benefits of organic, or local, or biodynamic, or whatever other niche model of farming they're into. Because typically these folks have no real idea of what they're talking about. It's their own vanity that they're promoting.

>>Wtf is with the Brussels sprouts haters!

They are the devil's droppings, Gretchen!

(Actually, you are correct in my case. Bad childhood memories due to foul over-boiling. And they always smelled like farts.)

Yes, frozen is often as good as fresh.

But canned is often vile - and the canning process often reduces nutritive value.

Spinach - fresh, frozen, canned, I'll eat it all. It just depends on what I'm using it for. I prefer fresh spinach for a salad instead of lettuce - sooo much better! But I do have a love for canned spinach - I don't know why, but it is handy when you just need something quick and green with your meal.

I do miss the garden my dad had when we were growing up - we used to eat the green beans right off the vine. YUM!

Every one of my grandparents ate green beans. And you know where they are now?

That's right! THEY'RE DEAD! EVERY ONE OF THEM!

See if you'll ever get me to eat a green bean.

I learned as an adult how delicious fresh vegetables are compared to canned. Including spinach and asparagus, two foods I swore I would never once I was grown. I was raised on canned food. Nutritious or not, it was horrible.

There are only two vegetables that I still absolutely hate--peas and brussel sprouts. I read that they both contain some chemical that not everyone can taste, and those that can taste it do not like it.

True or not, I just know that brussel sprouts taste bitter to me no matter how they are prepared, and peas smell like feet. They look pretty on the table, but keep them far away from me. They make me gag.

My folks made us wear aprons, like they used to show housewives wearing. Bib top, tied at the back. My friends teased me for it, but what they didn't know was that those aprons had pockets, which were very handy for hiding peas, etc. in until you could get to the bathroom to flush them away.

so... yeah, the real problem here is that fresh, never is, unless you actually LIVE on the farm. Those apples from New Zealand? How long does it take for an ocean going vessel to get here from New Zealand? How long does it take the fresh spinach to get to Chicago from California? Has to be picked/washed/bagged/put on a truck...

Early enough that it can get to you before it goes bad. That means they have to pick stuff before it is ripe. Before it has all it's nutrients. So, fresh is relative. Frozen is actually fresher, becasue it was flash frozen when it was ripe, and right from the farm. That veg was prolly less than 10 hours old when it was frozen... so.

If you couple that to the part where feeding school children is equivalent to cooking fo an army? Frozen makes 100X more sense than trying to get something supposedly fresh in every day.

The thing that they need to talk about is what food chices are made and why. That is a question entirely glossed over by the whole fresh is better controversy.

Fresh, canned, frozen - whichever you choose to cram down kids' gullets, there should be an effort to make them palatable.

And unlike those who say there's no advantage to fresh, I think some fresh raw food is good. It's a different food, actually, than eating the same think cooked. You don't need a lot of it, either. At least for myself, I noticed a difference in how well I assimilated other foods in terms of energy level and vitality. I had fewer cravings and less need for sugar.

Not that I would have touched any form of vegetable as a child except at gunpoint.

"Brussels sprouts, on the other hand, justify a declaration of war on Belgium."

I've always thought that the first person who thought Brussels sprouts were edible should have been shot. I've had people try to tell me they taste like little cabbages, which is what they look like. Like Pricklypear, I find them bitter.

Peas on the other hand, I could stand when I was little and my mom cooked them to death (because that's how my dad wanted his veggies). I threw up more than once when forced to eat them. Later, we moved to the country and a couple of friends started eating them out of a garden and finally convinced me to try them. Not the same taste at all. I love peas fresh from the vine/bush and tolerate barely cooked peas.

My first taste of asparagus was from our garden, but I never cared for it any way it's been cooked.

I didn't know people ate spinach raw until a few years ago - much better that way. I didn't really mind the taste of cooked spinach so much as the texture and look. Same with okra and squash. Lima beans aren't my favorite, but I don't mind them much.

The comment about tomatoes in winter is shy of the mark - you can't get a decent fresh tomato (or peach) from a grocery store. They spoil if they're shipped when ripe, so they're always picked green.

Have to agree with Patrick and Amy about juice - all that sugar in a readily absorbed form.

When I was growing up vegatables were boiled for hours--cooked to death, so I hated them. When I got older and away from home I discovered stir fry and other better ways to cook. Now the list of veggies I will eat has grown much longer. Teaching better cooking methods would help kids and adults more likely to enjoy veggies.

Lovelysoul said:
The problem we have is that many kids don't know what fresh vegetables taste like anymore. That "Food Revolution" guy, Jamie Oliver went to a school in West VA and the kids couldn't recognize a real vegetable. They didn't know a potato from a tomato or a carrot. They were being fed nothing but fried food, and pizza for breakfast. That's really scary.
_________________________

And, presumably, half those kids wouldn't warm up to fruit. However, it's not just poor kids and ill-advised parents who have such bad eating habits - as I mentioned elsewhere, it's a long-running joke/fact that MANY kids who can't trade their fresh fruit for "real dessert" at school throw it out. (This got mentioned long ago on "Family Ties," so I'm guessing it's been true for 30 years or so.)

In the book "Cheaper by the Dozen," (which takes place more than a century ago) Dad, who is making the kids learn a complicated mathematical formula at dinnertime, tells them that if they don't want to learn it, they can leave without getting dessert - "and I understand there is apple pie tonight." No one leaves. Nowadays, kids would sneer something like "why would I eat THAT when I can go buy ice cream?"

> Bad childhood memories due to foul over-
> boiling. And they always smelled like farts.

Interesting wording. A lot of comments here seem to be memories of misapplied water and heat to the vegetables of our youth.

Twenty-five years ago, I caught a couple minutes of a zombie-Christian TV show at the station I was working at... Jim and Tammy or 700 club or something like that. And they had this handsome, authoritative-seeming, fast-talking doctor in a discussion about nutrition. I don't know who it was and will never remember the details, but Amy would have gone apeshit for this guy... Wonderful action-star jawline, ramrod posture, he was just fabulous. And the hosts were talking to him, in that folksy way that they have on those shows, about how their kids or grandkids won't eat vegetables.

And he said that problem is that vegetable micronutrients have to already be present in younger bodies in trace amounts before the tastebuds will recognize them as healthy... Otherwise the tongue and olfactory will respond as they to do "excrement".
(It was fun to hear that word on that show.) That's certainly how I felt about that horrible, spoon-draping, glop-ulent canned spinach as a child. He said feeding kids a small serving of vegetables each day without fail will strongly diminish their resistance.

This might make sense if you're an ape who evolved on the savannah, where grass and tubers was the only thing you had to eat every day anyway, and dietary adventurism could be poisonous.

Since then I've noticed that on a third day with out eating anything green and leafy, the first bites of a salad aren't as tasty... But if I had a salad for lunch yesterday, I'll readily enjoy one today, too.

Anybody knows anything about this, speak up.

One last thing about canned spinach.

Not only is it-

• saggy

• wet

• cold (until heated)

• grimly-colored

• and stinking,

but it's also DARK inside that can. No joy gets in, no joy comes out.

(We were poor. I'm not trying to give my mother a hard time. We grew up well-fed and healthy. But I'm just sayin'....)

Lenona, I loved that book. :)

It's anecdotal, Crid, but you might be onto something with the aquired taste theory. When I was young, my mother refused to feed us junk food--instead of chips or candy, we were given frozen peas and corn for snacks. Fruit instead of cookies. Water or milk or juice to drink. I don't think I had soda until I was in grade school, and Gatorade was so unfamiliar to me that I refused to drink it at a school party because I thought it was made from alligators.

In any case, I never developed a taste for heavy sugars or chemical additives, and don't really care for them to this day. But it was easy to get me to eat veggies as a child because I wasn't given the alternatives except as special treats (candy on holidays, chips and such at a party or barbecue). But we usually ate fresh or frozen vegetables, not canned, and my mom cooked them with plenty of salt and butter. If they were raw, she dressed them up: celery with peanut butter and raisins is much better than just the plain celery stalk.

*****Butter just about any vegetable and it takes great. I eat parsley (for the vitamin K) in the morning before I eat my eggs -- sautée it in the butter in the pan and eat it before I put the eggs and cheese in the pan. Yum! *****

Oh, I can totally get behind this. If you want some awesome zucchini, slice it up, sautee it in butter, and top it with parmesan cheese.

Oh. My. God.

Y'all must not actually have any access to really fresh produce. Frozen veggies do taste about the same as veggies from the Safeway produce section but they both taste like crap compared with the stuff that comes in my weekly veggie box. But, ya know, I live in produce paradise (CA), I like variety, I like cooking, and I am OK with having fresh tomatoes only 2-3 months of the year.

Bah humbug, I love the taste of freshly squeezed fruit juice.

You can all have my share of vegetables.

Frankly I wish it were a law that nobody could discuss healthy eating unless they proved with at least a mini tri-athalon, that they themselves were healthy people.

If I hear one more fat guy talk about eating right from the comfort of his couch...or one more anti-smoking nazi lecture me on its hazards while chowing down on 3 triple cheese burgers with a coke the size of my neck to drink...or one more scrawny little bastard tell me about the dangers of supplements while he struggles to lift a computer monitor...I do believe I'm going to go insane.

Look...I'm not a scientist, I'm not going to sit here and tell you, eat all fresh food, and don't touch meat, nor the opposite.

I'm not an expert on that subject and I don't pretend to be.

I'll just say a few things that shouldn't even NEED to be said.

Be ACTIVE. Get on a bike, go for a walk, go play basketball, go for a run, go play tennis, go do SOMETHING with your body.

It doesn't matter if you eat all the right things if the heaviest thing you lift is your dinner plate and t.v. remote.

I've become more and more convinced over the years that our food has much less to do with our health than we're led to believe. Look at Lance Armstrong, tour de france winner time and time again, chowing down on a multitude of snickers bars, but his active life keeps him in flawless shape.

This obsession with our food didn't exist in our parents time, at least not mine, and my parents and grandparents live & lived very long healthy lives. I seriously doubt most of our concerns would have any validity at all...if people just did things with their bodies beyond just breathing in them.

I'm not saying Eades or Taubes are wrong, hell they may very well be dead on the money when it comes to the specific nutritional value of this or that diet. What I AM saying, is that for the active person, I doubt it would make much more than a small difference.

Now, I've said my peace, and I'm headed out to my office's mini-gym to get a work out in. Of those here discussing good health...perhaps one or 3 or 4 will have a similar activity today, or exert themselves in any meaningful way, and only 1 or 2 will do so daily or semidaily. Perhaps...or perhaps not, most of you will "eat right", but how many of you at all will "LIVE RIGHT"?

Just something to think about.

I love spinach. Fresh, canned, frozen, it does not matter. My parents did not like it. They instead cooked turnip and mustard greens. Ah, what would I do without the wisdom of Popeye.

Growing up, most produce was not bought. We grew our produce in the summer and then we preserved it for winter. Preserving meant canning in glass jars or freezing it. Tomatoes, apples, blackberries, peaches, pears, corn, peas, assorted peppers, rhubarb, asparagus, garlic, onions, and anything else that we could grow and would eat. So not only did we have a semi-organic diet, we also expended the energy it required to till, plant, fertilize, pick, and preserve. Expending this energy is the real secret to healthy living.

Does it have to be either/or? I buy plenty of fresh vegetables and frozen as well. You buy what makes sense to your budget and convenience. I only refuse to buy canned, which are disgusting.

Yes, sometimes frozen is better quality and those veggies you see at the farmer's market during the wonter are local - grown in the greenhouse.

My gripe with frozen veggies is that the texture is waterlogged - won't make a good crispy stirfry for example. You end up with it all soggy flaccid.

Yes, too much fruit juice is not good for you - and I don't understand how parents can give their children all that sugar.

I so agree about 'acquired taste'. I hate the 'processed' taste which I never had growing up. Also, all my European friends cannot believe how sugary American cakes and desserts taste. I don't like American cakes much myself for this reason. European cakes are sweet, but they're not anywhere near as sugary.

Yes, sometimes frozen is better quality and those veggies you see at the farmer's market during the wonter are local - grown in the greenhouse.

My gripe with frozen veggies is that the texture is waterlogged - won't make a good crispy stirfry for example. You end up with it all soggy flaccid.

Yes, too much fruit juice is not good for you - and I don't understand how parents can give their children all that sugar.

I so agree about 'acquired taste'. I hate the 'processed' taste which I never had growing up. Also, all my European friends cannot believe how sugary American cakes and desserts taste. I don't like American cakes much myself for this reason. European cakes are sweet, but they're not anywhere near as sugary.

Jamie Oliver has had a huge impact in the UK - I'm agog to see what happens here.

Robert:

Frankly I wish it were a law that nobody could discuss healthy eating unless they proved with at least a mini tri-athalon, that they themselves were healthy people.

you realize how much you're missing out nutrient-wise by skipping your veggies? You are only harming yourself.

BTW, I look like a human meatball, but I feel totally free to dispense nutrition & health advice. I'm doing it to make Robert insane.

Crusader writes: BTW, I look like a human meatball, but I feel totally free to dispense nutrition & health advice. I'm doing it to make Robert insane.

I would recommend the Carb Addict's diet if you wish to change that.

Patrick - thank you but I much prefer to stay the way I am. Fat acceptance is a wonderful joy.

Ways to greatly improve canned or frozen spinach... add fat to it:

Spinach pie:
Blend your spinach with cream cheese or another soft cheese. Put it in a pie crust and bake. Yum! Creamy goodness!

Spinach soup:
Caramelize some onions in butter. Add spinach. Add cream. Blend. Yum! Creamy goodness!

They are both very high in fat.

Great Brussels Sprouts recipe:

http://www.101cookbooks.com/archives/goldencrusted-brussels-sprouts-recipe.html

..and spinach frozen or from a can is tolerable only if it's creamed.

I'd pit anyone who eats atrociously, but lives actively, against anyone who eats perfectly, but does nothing else.

And I think we all know just who would come out ahead in that kind of physical trial.

Our bodies are not so delicate as dietary science tends to make us think.

And Miss Alkon, I've said before I cannot argue with results, and it is no idle flattery that you are a lovely girl of fine fair form, I don't spend hours in the gym either.

I go in for about 1 hour over the course of a day. True it is daily, but I do so for the enjoyment.

I love throwing massive weights up and testing the limits of my body. To see how much more I can do. I love being ridiculously strong. I like having the nickname "ox".

Truth be told I do wish I had more time to spend in there, but the business of living never gives us pause.

Heh, crusader, some of my comrades would say I'm already quite mad. *L*

Next time you're cruising up the Great Highway and the mighty Brussel Sprout is in season, buy a stalk and take it to your hotel room. Cut off a few, wash them quick, then nuke 'em in the room microwave and butter them as they attempt their escape. Salt them, pepper them, consume them hot and fresh and you will never doubt the mighty sprout again.

Canned vegetables are emergency food.

"Why spend hours and hours in the gym when you can just cut out bread?"

For me, the question is "why cut out 95% of the food you like to eat when you can just spend an hour a day at the gym for the same results?"

I can work out vigorously for an hour and burn 600-800 calories...that's much easier than trying to cut 600-800 calories from my diet. Plus exercise increases my energy level, helps me sleep and eat better, helps me to structure my day, gives me a sense of accomplishment...not to mention numerous internal health benefits.

I guess it's all in what you prefer.

Shannon: For me, the question is "why cut out 95% of the food you like to eat when you can just spend an hour a day at the gym for the same results?"

Better question is why would anyone in their right mind subscribe to a diet that causes you to lose weight with no activity. That, in and of itself, should tell you something's wrong with it.

I've heard there is a brussel-sprouts hating gene. Those who have it can't stand the taste. They can't help it. Doesn't matter how much butter you put on it. There's some sort of chemical in the sprouts that they can taste that the rest of us can't. There is no point in trying to convince them that sprouts are yum.

Me, I love them. Browned in butter with salt.

Quarter the Brussel sprouts, stir fry with bits of bacon. Sprouts should be bright green and the bacon crispy brown.

Some people inherit the ability to taste the compound that makes Brussel sprouts and other crucifers bitter and others do not. I love all members of the cabbage family, properly cooked. My mom also made the best liver and onions in the world.

Amen, Patrick and Shannon

Shannon asks: For me, the question is "why cut out 95% of the food you like to eat when you can just spend an hour a day at the gym for the same results?"

Patrick responds: Better question is why would anyone in their right mind subscribe to a diet that causes you to lose weight with no activity. That, in and of itself, should tell you something's wrong with it.

Ever wonder if its not the 'diet' which causes you to lose weight, but the wrong foods you are currently eating which caused you to gain the weight unduly?

Spinach, like asparagus, is an abomination fresh, frozen, boiled, steamed, or any other way it's distributed, sold, or prepared.

Now wait a minute. Wrapping two asparagus spears in bacon and baking until the bacon is crisp makes awesome finger food.

Since then I've noticed that on a third day with out eating anything green and leafy, the first bites of a salad aren't as tasty... But if I had a salad for lunch yesterday, I'll readily enjoy one today, too.

Strange, I'm just the opposite. The longer I go without a good salad, the more I like it when I get one.

Regarding the notion that feeding children vegetables daily is the route to acceptance, I will give you the anecdote of my oldest son. When he was about a year old, he started going to my father's garden with him. Dad introduced him to all kinds of vegetables: tomatoes, sweet peppers, carrots, peas, even lima beans and turnips, and he ate them all. Raw. He loved it. Then, as he got a little older, he started being less enthusiastic, and eventually stopped eating them, except turnips. About the time he turned 14, he started eating more veggies again, but there was a long dry spell.