The mother needs psychological help. Full stop.

Possibly offtopic: Dr. Silverman is probably highly qualified as a doctor and a wonderful individual, but her website looks like a late night as seen on tv bogus product advertising website. I'm sure her advice is sound and terrific, but there is just something off about her website that tells me to stay away.

That said, it's my goal to treat my kids age appropriate and often as grown up as they might be in hopes they gain self-confidence, a sense of responsibility and ethics, and move the hell away from our little shithole of a town and go see the world.

Sounds something like my mother, although she's not quite that bad. As far as Mom is concerned, I'm going on thirteen.

Dr. Silverman is probably highly qualified as a doctor and a wonderful individual, but her website looks like a late night as seen on tv bogus product advertising website.

Hadn't heard of her before. Found it searching for examples of overparenting of people in their 20s.

Mine weren't, but I'm 50. My favorite author's (Steven Brust) comment about his childhood rings a bell with me - "My parents raised me by a system of benign neglect". I was mostly ignored unless they had work for me.

Sure, the mother has a problem. But so does the daughter. In her 20s? It's about time to move out of Mommy's basement and be like an adult...

Sure, the mother has a problem. But so does the daughter. In her 20s? It's about time to move out of Mommy's basement and be an adult...

I'm 25 and my mom certainly worries about me but she doesn't hover. If I *allowed* her to, she might be more hover-y but I simply don't give into parental stalking, so she does pretty well.

My fiance's mom (he's 31, his brother and sister are in their 40s) gets "so worried" quite easily. If you don't answer her phone call she will call 4-5 times over the course of an hour. This is due in part to some impatience, a lack of understanding people have to do stuff at work and cannot chat at all moments, and finally she is an insane worrier. If you don't pick up it's obviously because you are dead from carbon monoxide poisoning - not because you're in a meeting or on the toilet.

The best way to deal with this type of personality (I think it's more of a personality flaw...) is to not give into it. If your mom calls you 5 times and leaves 911 texts, etc. because she wants to tell you about something a friend said: you just ignore her. Also let her know that if she is hospitalized for some reason, you're less likely to respond to an actual emergency. Reference the boy who cried wolf. Call her back when it's convenient for you. You can try to explain that she doesn't need to call so many times; you have caller ID and can see she's trying to reach you. Most likely, this behavior is too ingrained and also, since the person has a few screws loose, rational ideas won't stick. You can only control your reaction. So, pretend that 5 missed calls = 1 missed call, delete the voicemails, and call when you have a minute.

As to 96 in an hour: that lady sounds like she has a serious disorder. That isn't helicopter parenting, it's fucked. She needs a shrink and some Valiums A.S.A.P.

It can only happen if you let it.

"My sister and I are treated like 13 year olds. When we go out our mother calls us every 30 minutes to check up on us. Recently I had 96 missed calls on my cell when I didn't reply."

Call mom. Say this: "Mom, I love you, but you need to knock it off. No, listen to me--I am talking here. Knock. it. off. I am a grown woman living a grown woman's life. I will call you Sunday evening to catch up with you about this week's events. Don't call me until then unless someone is dying. Love ya, ma. Bye."

"It's about time to move out of Mommy's basement and be an adult... "

Maybe she is living at home b/c she's inept, or co-dependent. Or maybe she has $50,000 in student loans and couldn't find a "real job" so she's making $10/hour at the mall. Going out at night is healthy and normal; this girl gives no indication she is behaving poorly, only that her mom seems neurotic and this is probably worsened by the divorce (maybe the daughter helps pay the bills, too? We cannot say that she is a freeloader and feeding into a vicious cycle of sick codependency).

Amy where is the rest of this letter. I'm trying to find where the LW says she's living at home? I have a friend who parents do this and she's not living at home and hasn't been for years.

Alrighty, then, let me throw this out and see what you all think:

The other night at 3 a.m. or so, I got up to use the bathroom. BF and I had gone to bed around 11:30, after the news; the girls had been in bed for an hour or so. BUT...when I got up at 3, to use the bathroom (menopause sucks, people!) Number 1's bedroom door was open, and she wasn't in bed. Keep in mind, she's 17. And a skinny little thing. I thought she might have gone downstairs to get something to drink, but didn't hear anything and didn't see any lights on. Slight panic. Went in her room, most of her stuff was there, except for her and her cell phone. Bit more panic. I thought, okay, maybe she's on the porch talking to someone on her cell. But no, she's not there. So, I started calling her cell. Now, we live in a fairly large, fairly decent town, but I was getting a little MORE panicked as time went on and she didn't answer her cell. I'll mention here that she had a problem with a boy she liked, who was being a total asshole to her, and I had told her to just let it go. So I started to think maybe he came over here to talk to her, and looked outside for his car. NOTHING.

So, what to do? I called her cell again. Then I texted: Where the HELL are you?? She called and said Mom, I'm okay, I was just out walking. I was all, AT 3 A.M.?? She said, I'm coming home now, I'm right near Uncle Bob's (who lives a couple blocks away from us). So I went up the street to the corner to wait for her. She came up to me and started crying, hugged me, told me one of her friend's boyfriend broke up with her, she was upset, blah blah blah. I said well you didn't have to go OUT WALKING did you? She was all, I'm sorry I won't do it again. And we walked home and she went to bed. And I was left with the feeling that I could have handled that better but wasn't sure how. Normally when she's out with her friends, I don't call her cell; she calls me for a ride home. Was I being overprotective this time?

If she IS incapable of living on her own, there's an obvious reason why.

Yeah, #1 is good that way too, Amy, which is why I usually don't call her cell, unless I don't hear from her and she's later than she said she'd be. But for the most part, she's always where she says she'll be, and she is NOT allowed to be out until 3am unless it's a special occasion, like prom or cotillion. And even then, she was home before 2. I trust her. I was scared, though, that morning when she wasn't there, mostly because of that boy I mentioned. Not that he's crazed or anything, but that he's bigger than she is. And I think she is still crushing on him, so if he called and asked her to meet him, no matter what time, I think she would. And that bothers me.

Perfectly normal Mom reaction, Flynne. She probably should have left a post-it on the door though :)

My parents still worry about me and my brothers, and we're all out of the house. But we don't get calls on a regular basis, much less hourly.

If my parents don't hear from one of us for a few weeks they call to say hi.

I suspect that no parent ever stops worrying about their children.

Flynne, you kind of got played. That sounds like classic attentions seeking behavior, and you gave the attention she wanted.

17 year olds living in their parents' house don't get to "free range" at 3 am.

Her walk was, it appears, IMHO, actually a typical teen drama-seeking moment, not a need she had to address. She got her drama, all right.

Tell her to knock off the 3 am sojourns, and that her sneaking out (yes, that is what is was) is bullshit behavior that is unacceptable. It is disruptive to *your* sleep, as you obviously noticed, and as such it is selfish and thoughtless of her.

A year later at college, yes, she can leave her dorm room when she wants and walk in the dark. (But since there will be no desperate mom cell calls followed by Hallmark movie-of-the-week moments of tearful reunion--suprise!--she will likely opt for rolling over and going back to sleep.) But at home there are no more late-night walks to create Perils of Pauline drama.

I would also warn her that she should not transfer this teenage search for emotional drama from you to her boyfriends. Mature adults don't needlessly create anxiety about their safety or whereabouts in loved ones. In fact, mature adults try to reduce such almost cruel incidents.

I dunno, Spartee. This isn't her usual modus operandi for getting attention. This is the kind of behavior I've almost expected from her younger sister and haven't gotten yet, thank the gods. She hadn't done this kind of thing before...oh wait, yes she did, once, when that boy I mentioned called her and I found her talking with him in his car at 2am! But that was several months ago; I had forgotten about that. But those are the only times she has pulled a stunt like this. She usually sleeps like the dead and doesn't even hear her cell in the middle of the night. We had a talk about her "3am sojourns" and she has promised there will be no more. But I sure as hell hope she doesn't have them in college; the school she's going to is in a larger, more dangerous city than our little one.

Ah, those teen-age years...I think my mom must have gotten tired from my three older siblings by the time I got around to giving her my share of grief. No cell phones--guys actually tossed pebbles at the window.

We were tame compared to our friends who lived across the street. Seven daughters, four of whom were teens at the same time as my sister and I. Oh, man, the things our folks never knew about! Good times, mostly. A few pretty bad ones, though.

Wow, just reading that site made me feel claustrophobic. And this Dr. Robyn, how many times is she going to respond with, "Be nice to your parents?" - blech. I can't even fathom being that old and having my parents micromanage me. These 20-somethings need to move the hell out and set boundaries. Of course, they seem incapable of doing so, and it's easy to see why.

Umm...my point, before I started down memory lane, is that even the most protective parent can only do so much. With any luck, at some point the child will escape your clutches.

I wonder how many more letters I'll read that begin "My kid won't help and won't leave" or words to that affect.

That theme is getting so familiar, somebody should start an advice column devoted to "Getting your kids out of the house after you've convinced them that there's no place like home."

Of course, this problem isn't new either. Nothing is. There's an old movie, "The Silver Cord" I think is the title, on how a mother ruins the life of one son, while the other struggles to get away.

When I was in grad school, she couldn't reach me for a couple days and so had the residence people go search my room to make sure I wasn't dead. It was quite embarrassing.

I had spent the weekend at my boyfriend's and not told her, as I didn't feel it necessary to tell her my every move.

Now that I'm married it is less of an issue. On the contrary, she never calls anymore! I guess she wants to give us space?

Sounds like she wanted some air. She should have left a note for you, or answered her phone.

The issue may not be simply one of being overprotective--my mother in law will call every available phone number: my husband's cell, my cell, the home phone, both work numbers, until she gets an answer. If we don't pick up. She leaves voice mails all around and then calls his cell over and over. It's not because she's worried, it's because SHE HAS SOMETHING TO SAY, and we WILL hear it on her timetable. The only way to deal with it is to ignore her, which I do happily, but she is incapable of taking the hint. She's a crazy, nosy, demanding bitch, who loves to play the victim, and it's got nothing to do with worrying about her son. I suspect the LW's mother is pathalogical in the same sense--her phone calls have less to do with true concern and more to do with "why aren't you answering MY calls???"

My wife's whole family is like that. We were visiting some of them one time, and we could tell that the one girl who was there was feeling cooped up, so we let her come with us when we took a trip to the store. I thought we made it clear we were just trying to kill some time and be out from underfoot while people worked on dinner, but when we returned 2 hours later (remember, BOTH my wife and I were in the car, not just me and the girl), we were informed that they were about to call the police to have them look for us.

Slightly off topic, but...

Isn't delayed maturity sanctioned by our government? One of the rules in the new Health Care Reform is that "children" up to the age of 26 can stay on their parent's group insurance plans. The old rule was up to 24 IF a full time student. The clause about student status has been dropped. So in other words, "CHILDREN" up to 26 can be insured through their parents' employer sponsored plans. That means all the deadbeat dumbasses who haven't figured out how to support themselves can ride mommy and daddy's coattails - a bit longer.

Flynne, you might consider that she was with the boy, or another friend. She did it once in the driveway, so it's possible she was doing it again. You called her and gave her a heads up that you were on to her, so she walked home. But she could easily have been parked down the block with him. Not trying to slander your daughter, but I had two of them and I know what the little darlings are cabable of. She probably didn't leave a note because she figured she'd get away with it. Possibly not the first time. Just saying. Don't let her make you feel like you're overreacting.

Pirate Jo said: "Wow, just reading that site made me feel claustrophobic."

Seriously. I read about 3/4 of the comments and was just shocked. For the most part, the kids were just transferring what had happened their whole lives: asking Dr. Robyn (instead of mommy) to solve their problems. The easy solution for half of them would be to squirrel away each penny they get, and then move out. Once you're out, switching off the cell phone is easy. For parents who threaten to send the police to the club they go to, go to a different club. For those who call phones constantly, I'd leave a specially worded voicemail message. "Hey, it's Sandy. I've turned my cell phone off for the night and I'll call everyone back tomorrow morning, so leave a message!". One of the coolest things about cells is the fact that you can turn them off.

But, dude, there were twenty-somethings that were complaining their parents don't let them date! If that's the case, you *really* need to move out. And you do that bit by bit, squirreling away cash and finding people willing to be roomies. Or the route that my parents took, join the military.

These kids are just so helpless! And like PJ said, you can see why.

"That means all the deadbeat dumbasses who haven't figured out how to support themselves can ride mommy and daddy's coattails - a bit longer."

Or those achievers working their way through law, med, or grad school can reduce their expenses and concentrate on school a little more.

But look at it in the most negative light possible if you prefer. Same result - you angry, situation unchanged.

Gog - Maybe you should go back and read the sentence where I said:

"The old rule was up to 24 IF a full time student. The clause about student status has been dropped".

Those are the people I'm talking about. Not the students. I have no problem with students being on their parent's insurance.

Situation IS changed. And "kids" get two more years into adulthood to play.

Pathetic.

But the bottom line is that if you LIVE like a child...still at home in your mid 20s...then you deserve to be treated like one.

How independent and grown up can you be, still dependent upon mommy & daddy for a roof?

I left home at 18, went to college, joined the Army 2 years in to that, I made my mistakes, had successes & failures, yes if I had needed to I COULD have gone home to get things together, my parents are good people. Flawed like anyone, but decent.

But I didn't "fail to launch". I got my life started and have done just fine ever since.

Unless one is a student, there is NO reason to remain at home that long.

Really unhealthy issues around control going on.

You know, Robert, your story isn't that different from mine. I didn't ever join the Army, but I went off to school when I was 18. I only came home at Christmas and summer breaks, and it was nice to see my parents then. While I was at home, I had a good summer job just ten miles from their house. We went halfsies on the cost of my education, and I got decent grades and finished in four years. Then I lived at home for maybe six months while looking for a full-time job, then moved out.

But one of my parents' favorite lines was, 'Someday, when you grow up and have a place of your own you can ...' (fill in the blank with 'X', something I wanted to do but that they wouldn't let me, like have an indoor pet). It was always understood that I *would* be moving out and getting that much-anticipated place of my own.

I am not sure that is the case with these parents. Perhaps because they lack lives of their own, they seem to want to keep their children under their thumbs forever. I think my parents had other things they wanted to do with their thumbs. Had you or I been raised the way some of these people were, I'm not saying we wouldn't have rebelled and ended up independent anyway, but it would have been difficult. These young people seem to have been messed up from a young age. Even if they do make it out, they will still be putting up with difficult, shit-serving parents for the rest of their lives, unless they cut off all contact. I'm sure glad I don't have to do something like that. My parents aren't perfect either, but this makes me want to send them a thank-you letter.

I've said before that the problem is not "kids nowadays" but "parents nowadays."

Now I can put my finger on "why":
Parents of yesterday raised kids to be independent.
Parents today raise their kids to be dependent, on the parents/govt/etc.

My brother-in-law won't allow his children to stay away overnight without one of their parents. The kids (5 of them) range in age from 3 to 12. He and my husband's sister just bought a large piece of land and built a huge house... and he's been talking about the houses he's going to build ON THAT SAME PIECE of land for his daughters and their future husbands.
Yeah, he assumes that his future sons-in-law are going to live on his compound, be indebted to him, and let him run their lives.

This approach to childrearing is everywhere. Parents are convinced that the world is just too hard and too dangerous to allow their kids to function independently in it, and somehow they expect that their kids will grow these skills magically on their 18th birthday.

My sister TRIED to be that kind of parent to her daughter. She called her high school teachers daily and complained about their treatment of her little baby.

My niece didn't play along though. My sister is low-income, and my niece did well in school, so she got a full ride to a prestigious university about 800 miles away from home. When she moved off to go to school, she sliced the apron strings.

At first my sister called upwards of thirty times a day. My niece refused all calls. Finally, my mom convinced her to call her mom once a week. My niece drew boundaries for her mom in dark black marker.

Sometimes, drastic actions must be taken. Mom will adapt - eventually.

I like your niece Jen.

Adore her.

Flynn, gods love ya but I need to be harsh here.

When I was 17 and sneaking out at 3 AM, it was to go do it. I was an honors student, very well behaved and responsible. My mom thinks she knows everything about me, too. She didn't, still doesn't. I honestly think parents are completely delusional when I hear them say "My child would never do that." YES, they probably would and maybe already have. Even honest, smart, funny, level-headed kids who've never been caught lying or stealing and have jobs and get home for curfew will sneak out to have sex and pop a beer at least ONCE unless they are total social pariahs.

She very well may be telling the truth but that's shady and I just want to instill some healthy paranoia because I like you. And I'm 25 so my memory of what I did in high school is still pretty fresh.

Thanks, Gretchen, and everyone else here! I'm not gonna say "oh no not MY baby!" because I know how kids are and I know how I was at that age too! But I'm pretty sure this one time, she was just out walking. She was in her pjs (which, yeah I know, doesn't mean anything) and had her cell, so I think if she was gonna go do it with someone she would've left her cell in her room. Obviously, she wasn't figuring I'd have to get up in the middle of the night to use the can, but I did, so there you have it. At least I didn't lose my head totally and call the cops! She doesn't have a boyfriend right now, and that other boy, she's so totally pissed off at him that if he had called her I'm pretty sure she would have blown him off. We've had "the conversation" and I told her that if she plans on sexing up some boy, she needs to be on birth control and I would take her to my gyno and she could take it from there. I don't want to know, I told her, but I want her to know that she's got to use birth control if she's going to be sexually active.

Flynne: Good - I know you're realistic and too young to be a g'ma :-)

Flynne, I'll toss out a different theory: your daughter's excursion may have been a sleepwalk, or at least started out that way. That could account for why she was out in her pajamas. Possibly she woke up in the middle of it, and when you found her, she was too embarrassed to tell you what happened. You might want to start watching for changes in her sleeping patterns; that certainly isn't unusual for someone her age. But if she's leaving the house in the middle of the night, not properly dressed and not carrying any ID, and not realizing what she's doing, that's obviously a potentially unsafe situation.

Having said that... I have been known to venture outside in the middle of the night, when the weather's nice and I have things on my mind and can't sleep. There's something about nice cool night air that's soothing when I can't sleep. However, if I'm not dressed, I'm certainly going to stick to the porch.

Gretchen says: Even honest, smart, funny, level-headed kids who've never been caught lying or stealing and have jobs and get home for curfew will sneak out to have sex and pop a beer at least ONCE unless they are total social pariahs.
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Don't think so, necessarily. Some just are scared of what their parents will do to them if someone gets careless and blabs. (Yes, strict parents are a lot harder to find these days.) And then there are those teens who simply don't like doing anything risky and who enjoy solitude enough to resist peer pressure. I was one of them, and it took me YEARS to realize that that put me in a small minority. I didn't even want to ride in a car with anyone my age who'd been driving for a year or less, so that's one big reason I wouldn't be a great parent even if I wanted kids - I would have precious little sympathy for kids who would feel left out if they didn't do terribly risky things like that. "Friends? Who needs friends? *I* only needed two or three at the most!"

The democrats and republicans have switched chairs. College is now what high school was before. 26 is the new 18 or 21...not sure. Dogs and cats living together mass hysteria! Repent! Repent! The end is near!

What I've noticed amongst a smattering of my friends (I'm 25) is that the more controlling the parents are the further the extreme is for the rebellion...thank god many of them escaped and moved far away.

One of my friends went to school 150 miles away and when he was home he still had a curfew...so what he did is went to school year round and graduated in 2.5 years (he had AP credits too). Other examples abound.

What I think parents need to do is raise their children to be adults...regularly remove restrictions (but increase responsibility) and talk regularly about how much you look forward to them visiting after the inevitably move out.

If all else fails getting them to leave on their own, create arbitrary rules that will get them to leave...

As far as the compound idea...I have a similar idea but it involves a big house in the country with multiple guest rooms...NOT permanent living areas for children...