Oh, and he forgot to mention that men on most kids or "family" shows are presented as hapless oafs (at best) or clueless dorks (at worst).

To be fair, I can remember that Captain Kangaroo, to my mind at the time (early 60s), seemed almost grandfatherly. Mr. Rogers wasn't exactly Clint Eastwood, either. I don't really remember much about kids shows from back then, but of course, there really *weren't* many options in the days before cable.

Well an example is the original Electric Company to the New Electric Company (http://www.pbs.org/aboutpbs/news/20090801_pbskidselectriccompany.html)

I've seen both. The new one just sucks.

But having a traditional masculine man wouldn't fit in with today's PC narrative. So it won't happen.

There's always this boxed set of every Western my brother and I grew up on and more than one I've never heard of.

Masculine characters in entertainment are a fine thing.

But the best role model for boys will always be a masculine father to show them the way.

Do they not have guys on Sesame Street anymore? Given that inner city boys were their major target...

How much of a change is this? I don't remember any of the men being masculine on the shows that I saw growing up. Mr Rogers? nope. A local blatant rip-off of Captain Kangaroo? nope. another local guy whose character was a pirate or ship's captain (I don't remember that well)...no..he never even raised his voice...now that I think of it, his character kind of reminds me of the painter Bob Ross. And here we have a happy little...

For about twenty-five years there, I had this life where I was working profitably in TV but never-ever had to watch commercials. That came to an end at the beginning of this year.

And I'm amazed, amazed, amazed how many mother-&-child commercial narratives have no masculine presence at all. Supermom of-a-3-year-old apparently has the income to pay for that nice house that's momentarily burdened with a need for pudding or cereal or cough suppressant or whatever. There's not even a jack in the corner to suggest that Dad's at work: No dad.

Twenty years ago I saw a commercial where a teenage mother –beautiful and literate-looking but dressed in comically casual sportswear– was playing with her child in a living room with Early American furniture. It seemed appalling to think they were making a market out of girls who got pregnant in high school and are counting on Mom & Dad to carry the load for another generation.

Jacket, not jack. I mean, if he's a tire-changin' man.

> men on most kids or "family" shows are
> presented as hapless oafs

Bill Cosby had a FREAKISHLY successful sitcom in the 80's, and never hid what he considered to be an important component its success: The kids didn't mock the dad. They had banter, but no one was belittled. After a few years, a competing network decided it was all just about black people and composed a show around Flip Wilson, a similarly-popular TV comedian. But it tanked, because the writers went for the fast but bitter fruit: sarcasm and deprecation.

> But the best role model for boys will always
> be a masculine father

Fathers aren't role models. Don't let bad language and transitory pop jargon goof up your insight.

Crid said: "Fathers aren't role models."

Um, why not?

I have to say, I don't understand why the women who decide to become single mothers even before they get pregnant don't seem to grasp that by doing so, they're implying that

1) fathers are no more important to kids' psychological well-being than siblings are

2) that unpaid childrearing should still be firmly considered women's work

3) that fathers shouldn't have to rear their children or support them if they don't want to.

BTW, I don't know what, if any, statistical differences there are regarding children of divorce (when the father doesn't TRY to see his kids very often) and children who never had fathers or stepfathers - sometimes due to being adopted by single women.

I loved the Cosby Show. Family Ties, too. They don't make many fun, nice sitcoms anymore.Now it's all about being obnoxious.

"And I'm amazed, amazed, amazed how many mother-&-child commercial narratives have no masculine presence at all"

At least we're done with the Summer's Eve mother daughter narrative.

With the advent of DVD, bluray, and DVR, we now have free-will. Parents can either estrogenize their boys by showing them the hungry hungry caterpillar or order actual Catepillar videos

> Um, why not?

Because "role model" is simplistic, reductionist jargon for one of the most profound bonds most human beings will ever experience. Role models are a management problem. Fathers and their children are not.

> At least we're done with the Summer's Eve
> mother daughter narrative.

Point taken. There are probably ten thousand little bullshit sayings and tag lines rattling around from the advertising of my youth, neuron-choking stupidities doing untold damage to our consciousness... But just now I can't think of any from the last ten years or so, other than Apple's reprehensible "think different."

Apple's been doing a lot of reprehensible things lately. Let's not forget what happened to the last guy to lose an iphone.