Bye, Bye Western Civ!
Gad Saad, Canada's Concordia University Research Chair in Evolutionary Behavioral Sciences and Darwinian Consumption, blogs at Psychology Today on the death of common sense and what's taking its place:
Several years ago, my wife and I had gone out for a celebratory dinner with one of my doctoral students and one of his female friends. The friend in question was a committed postmodernist and a staunch academic feminist. At one point during our dinner, I gently asked her whether she genuinely believed the postmodernist foundational tenet that there are no universal truths. The astute reader might notice the logical problem here, as the latter tenet is itself construed as a universal truth! Setting aside this embarrassing conundrum, she retorted with complete assuredness that indeed all knowledge is relative.
He asked the lady deconstructionist (deconstructionism being the belief that reality is a linguistic construction) whether it's a universal truth that from any vantage point on Earth, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West:
She proposed that I was putting labels on things, and she refused to play such games. She did not know what I meant by "East" or "West". These were arbitrary labels. What did I mean by "sun"? That which I called the sun, she might refer to as "dancing hyena" (her actual words!), to which I wryly replied: OK, the dancing hyena rises in the East and sets in the West. Better yet, the dancing hyena gives me a dancing hyena burn on my fat stomach if I lay out too long without any dancing hyena protection!If you think that this is an isolated incident that is otherwise unrepresentative of postmodernists, academic feminists, or deconstructionists, you'd be wrong. These anti-science movements have spent the greater part of the past four decades polluting the minds not only of bright academics but also of generations of students who were otherwise impressed by the obscurantism and fake profundity of these intellectual charlatans.
...These anti-science movements coupled with cultural relativism, political correctness, and an ethos of self-guilt regarding all geopolitical realities will prove the demise of Western civilization. It is such babble that caused nearly all of the American news media to offer hallucinatory explanations regarding the recent Times Square incident including that the alleged terrorist did this because he had defaulted on his mortgage payment, and hence was facing great financial strain. Both the media and Obama officials are under a strict edict to avoid uttering the most obvious of geopolitical facts. These nonsensical pseudo-intellectual movements will spell the end of liberal democracies if they are not eradicated from public discourse.
Gad Saad's excellent book: The Evolutionary Bases of Consumption.
I'd love to have a conversation with this guy. I'd annoy the crap out of him. The sun doesn't rise or set. That is an illusion caused by the rotation of the earth.
Patrick at May 6, 2010 12:47 AM
She did not know what I meant by "East" or "West". These were arbitrary labels.
I hate this crap with the fire of a thousand dancing hyenas. I have enough sociologist in me to know that we interpret things by their labels, but labels don't stop something from being true. As evidenced with the "dancing hyena" questions. The word "sun" isn't a universal term. The word is different in other languages. Does calling it sol or slunce or zon or aurinko change the fact that there is a 865,000 mile wide ball of plasma 93 million miles from Earth around which our planet and others orbit? Although I guess the "academic feminist" would argue that those labels don't mean anything, either. At some point the consistency of observable phenomena turns the merely subjective into the true.
And, no, Patrick, the sun doesn't actually rise or set. You'd have to be an idiot not to know that if you're over the age of ten, but that's just what we call it. Do you not ever use the words sunrise and sunset? "Sunset" easier than saying "the time at which the rotation of our planet on its axis causes the sixth degree of longitude to face away from the sun enough so that the sun appears to have completely dipped below the horizon line in Greenwich." As I said above, calling it something different doesn't mean the fact doesn't exist that our planet rotates on an axis so that a designated area gets light and dark at ridiculously predictable times.
NumberSix at May 6, 2010 1:04 AM
"The friend in question was a committed postmodernist and a staunch academic feminist. At one point during our dinner, I gently asked her whether she genuinely believed the postmodernist foundational tenet that there are no universal truths. The astute reader might notice the logical problem here, as the latter tenet is itself construed as a universal truth!"
Indeed, I often find it amusing that the people who resort to these kinds of relativist arguments are often remarkably dogmatic and intolerant when it comes to their own preferred belief systems.
Nick S at May 6, 2010 3:47 AM
"Staunch academic feminist"? Can you say, "alone with her cat"? Marie Curie or Grace Hopper would slap her.
If you do not know the difference between measurement and a standard - a definition - then you're hopelessly mired in ambiguity.
All measurements have uncertainty factors. That this is recognized does not make measurement useless. Counting and naming systems have names. This does not rob them of utility. The principles distinguishing the relationships between elements under observation do not change with the terms used to describe them.
What we call something doesn't change it.
As the problem with stating "there are no universal truths" shows, some people who say things just don't know what they are saying. I've run into this problem when trying to explain the real world to the gullible and the religious - but I repeat myself.
But the root of the problem is the tendency to invent explanations - easier than research.
How do you determine the difference between fact and fiction? You'll be surprised how inarticulate an answer you get from some people.
Radwaste at May 6, 2010 4:24 AM
You know - common sense went out the windows LONG before this. We are the only mammals (that I am aware of) that voluntarily pollutes its water supply and then tries to use science to clean it. Other animals bury their scat, we dump it and other toxins right into our water supply. And you think this is logical??
Karen at May 6, 2010 4:48 AM
uh, Karen? Marine mammals? Polluter their own water, which they breathe.
Never have arguments with the decon people... after all, if there is no universal truth, they mightn't be there, so why talk to them?
SwissArmyD at May 6, 2010 5:57 AM
SwissArmyD said "Marine mammals? Polluter their own water, which they breathe."
Gonna be nit picky here - being mammals, they breath air, not water.
That said, you're correct. Most animals don't bury their scat.
Like both NumberSix's and Radwaste's comments.
My guess is that people like that are trying to sound intelligent. If you say something that other people don't understand, the people who don't understand it tend to either think of it as deep, or as utter bullshit. They manage to convince a few people that way, which is better than they would do if they didn't spout nonsense.
William (wbhicks@hotmail.com) at May 6, 2010 6:13 AM
Damn, I was sooo looking forward to pouncing on SwissArmyD's comment
lujlp at May 6, 2010 6:23 AM
What is it makes me think you have cats Karen? Not that I'm criticising that, I have three myself. But walk around behind a horse or a cow (buffalo or whatever if you want a non-domesticated animal) for a while. Or across a field infested with rabbits. And an inch of so of dirt doesn't do much for preventing animal wastes getting into runoff anyway. Lots of animals shit in their nests.
You are correct though that we are the only mammal that tries to clean it up.
Ltw at May 6, 2010 6:30 AM
Meh. The sophists were talking like that thousands of years ago. We moved past them then, we will now.
Just make sure you never let them get in charge of anything important. They will kill millions, and call it freedom.
Spartee at May 6, 2010 6:34 AM
my bad. I hate it when I have 2 ideas in my head but sort of mash them together to write 'em down. I was thinkin' oh, mammals swim in it and fish breathe it...
SwissArmyD at May 6, 2010 6:38 AM
As a scientist, I've always considered most postmodern scholarship as an attempt on the part of "soft" liberal arts disciplines to add to their cred by creating a separate vocabulary that can only be understood after years of study with like-minded folks. They can't understand the formulae and notation of math and science, so they will create their own language that is just as obscure to show how brilliant and rigorous they are. The problem with this is that once you know the language of math, you see that it has been designed to illuminate, while postmodern notation (using hyena for sun, for example) is designed only to confuse.
Astra at May 6, 2010 6:43 AM
Some people go through a phase in life where they embrace philosophical trash.
(I call it trash because it offers neither insight nor utility into the nature of society or the individual, or how to improve either one)
And then well, some people try to make a living at it.
Robert at May 6, 2010 6:46 AM
Well said Astra!
Robert at May 6, 2010 6:47 AM
I recommend the book "Higher Superstition, The Academic Left and Its Quarrels with Science" by Paul Gross and Norman Levitt. It was published in 1994, but the description of postmodern 'thought' is still relevant.
When I meet people like that woman I want to set them aflame, then ask them how they know fire is hot? I trained in science, which they will tell me is a male paradigm that prevents us from truly understanding the Mothers wholistic earth. Bat shit crazy. The same mentality as the antivaxers who think measles and mumps are good for kids.
Ruth at May 6, 2010 6:50 AM
If a jihadi saws off her head, is it OK because there are no universal truths, or because she's not using it for anything anyway?
MarkD at May 6, 2010 7:14 AM
Not sure I'd call it anti-science, having argued with some of these (my mistake) academics. Needs to be a more general term: anti-intelligence? anti-sanity? anti-reality?
Arguing with them is fruitless, since you follow things like logic and reason and they are unhampered by such. Contradicting themselves doesn't phase them or slow them down. It's like the old saying about wrestling with a pig....
Joe at May 6, 2010 7:14 AM
She says arbitrary labels, I say pretentious horseshit. Hey, it's all relative, right?
mse at May 6, 2010 7:22 AM
It's like the old saying about wrestling with a pig....
Or like trying to teach one to sing, wastes your time, annoys the pig.
Flynne at May 6, 2010 7:23 AM
Joe:
Quibble from a (non-leftist) academic.
Phase=a form of a physical material
Faze=to disturb or unsettle.
Arguments about one's intellectual superiority, especially those dealing with language and meaning, are generally helped by careful attention to the (ahem) meanings of words.
Sorry, this particular misuse drives me insane.
Yes, I was an English Major. (Postgrad!)
No, this has not brought much in the way of fulfillment or material wealth.
Yes, that's why I patrol comment boards and correct peoples' spelling/usage.
jdub at May 6, 2010 7:24 AM
OK, but such bullshitters, while I agree that there are too many of them, do not make up all of society, academia, or anything important.
NicoleK at May 6, 2010 7:27 AM
Surely this has much to do with the increasing influence of women in academia & the media. To most women, "truth" means "whatever I am feeling at this particular moment." Postmodernism is merely the application of female thinking.
Jeff at May 6, 2010 8:22 AM
Jeff, what kind of as asshat are you anyway?? "Most" women think "truth" means "whatever I am feeling at this particular moment"? I am truly sorry for whatever bad experiences you've had with women, but they've all got one thing in common: YOU.
Flynne at May 6, 2010 8:24 AM
Flynne: a few bad experiences but lots of good experiences. Observation shows that most women are simply more driven by emotions than are men and less able to realize that "this is a feeling that will pass." This goes along with many compensating virtues. But human behavior is partly a function of our wiring and there's no point in pretending that there are no psychological differences between the sexes.
Jeff at May 6, 2010 8:32 AM
For those who are not familiar with Plato's Caves, it's worth the Google. Note that Plato's Republic advocated terminating anyone who did not fit in, ala Poi Pot, Stalin; etc.
irlandes at May 6, 2010 8:36 AM
Well, Jeff, you're just lucky I'm not some demented "lady deconstuctionist" or I'd have had to get all emotional in your face! o.O
But human behavior is partly a function of our wiring and there's no point in pretending that there are no psychological differences between the sexes.
Yeah, I know this. That's why I try not to paint everyone with the same brush.
Flynne at May 6, 2010 8:44 AM
>>"Most" women think "truth" means "whatever I am feeling at this particular moment"?
Flynne, one of the problems caused by a strong feminist movement is, few men dare state their feelings, even though a lot of women say they wish they would.
Over the first 55 years of my life, before I realized I belonged in Mexico, I would say the majority of American men I knew, most of whom did not share my political views of feminism, felt just as Jeff has said.
However, most of them thought it was childish and stupid to even talk about it, their belief being women can no more stop being irrational than the rains can stop. So, they were very chivalrous, expressing sympathy with women who encounter men like Jeff and I, though they didn't believe a word of what they said to those women.
My view is, American women are run by irrational emotions simply because their culture allows them to do so. In the same sense that Mexican men are boorish with women because their culture allows them to do so.
I have had discussions with men, asking if they believe American woman would be ashamed if they really knew what most men think of them. Which is that they are irrational and emotional.
Most said, no, they did not think it was possible to induce shame, nor understood why any fool would even contemplate such a stupid action.
Yet, I, who like women, and think women at heart are good and kind if their society does not reward other behavior - which the US does - am the one called nasty names by women, for telling them they are f'ing up.
What you said to Jeff is called shaming language, and does not work on men who know it for what it is.
One thing men notice when they visit other countries is how angry American women are by comparison, when they return. I have told men they can tell an American woman from a Mexican woman 30 feet away by the pissed off look on the face of the American woman. Men who visit Mexico crack up, and say, "It's true!"
Part of the reason AW have become so outrageous is any attempt to discuss their behavior by men results in vicious attacks by women until they shut up.
We men have to listen to criticisms and insults 24/7, yet a nation of women who prevent any criticism of their own behavior approach the boorish behavior of men in other nations who listen to no one about their own behaviors.
Let me add here there are a small number of excellent women in the US. They are not in charge.
irlandes at May 6, 2010 9:07 AM
"Observation shows that most women are more driven by emotions than are men and less able to realize that this is a feeling that will pass"
Tell it to this guy:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/06/islamic-rage-boy-is-back.html
Martin at May 6, 2010 9:09 AM
Well, irlandes, I was taught at a young age that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. And in keeping with that, I try to be as pleasant as possible as often as possible. I don't lie, I don't pull any punches, and I don't pretend to be something other than what I am. With me, what you see is what you get. Yes, I've had a few bad relationships, but recognized that we were both at fault, and I made changes in myself that were necessary in order for me to move on. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you aren't happy with yourself, you're not gonna be happy with ANYone else. That's just common sense, which I guess is what we're all here mourning the death of, eh?
Flynne at May 6, 2010 9:31 AM
Damn, this post remembers me an audiobook I have listened recently. It was Jack Kerouak's "On The Road".
Damn, it was pathetic and a waste of money, even on sale!
Toubrouk at May 6, 2010 9:58 AM
>>Well, irlandes, I was taught at a young age that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Flynne,
Remember where irlandes lives?
Maybe he believes he can catch more honeys with Mexican Fly...:)
["Find MEXICAN FLY POWERFUL APHRODISIAC SEXUAL ENHANCER in Health Beauty, Health Care , Family Planning Contraception , Impotence Aids ...
cgi.ebay.co.uk/MEXICAN-FLY-POWERFUL...-"/270538944293 - ]
Jody Tresidder at May 6, 2010 10:04 AM
Put the lady deconstructionist in an enclosure with a real Hyena. She will snap back to reality and I bet she won't think the hyena is an illusion then!
David M. at May 6, 2010 10:12 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/05/06/bye_bye_western.html#comment-1713267">comment from David M.Hah! Fantastic suggestion!
Amy Alkon at May 6, 2010 10:20 AM
The number of academics currently employed is probably considerably larger than the number of people who have genuine academic skills and interests.
david foster at May 6, 2010 12:38 PM
> No, this has not brought much in the way
> of fulfillment or material wealth.
Know the one I hate? When people say their interest has been "peaked", or even "peeked".
I still can't tell further from farther.
________________
Y'know, the thing about these deconstructionists or whoever (whomever?) is that nobody's ever heard of them or has any reason to care about them. I mean, yeah, they're sucking off the government academic titty, and that's bad and it ought to stop. But it's not like they're admired or trusted for social leadership by anyone except the similarly spiritless young English majors who are likely to fall into the same career path. (Tenure! Whee!)
It's like this thing with the religious guy and the gay prostitute. These scandals happen almost every year... and they're never anyone that we've heard of. It's always said that they command the attention multitudes and the voting power of legions, but it's never really true.
If you spend your life choosing ninny enemies, you can't come crying when a real monster charges at you.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at May 6, 2010 1:38 PM
Interviewer for a marriage counselor position:
So what is the root of most marital discord?
Interviewee: All women are nuts. ~Rat (Pearls Before Swine)
;)
Robert at May 6, 2010 3:20 PM
The Solution Is Simple: Dunning-Kruger Effect
Incompetent individuals tend to overestimate their own level of skill, and do not recognize their true inadequacy. Thay fail to recognize genuine skill in others.
Many intellectuals believe that there is no job (oil company CEO, football coach, running the local post office) that they cannot do as well or better than the person currently in the role, should they ever exert the effort to do so.
Many intellectuals in academia get points for manipulating an entirely artificial world of symbols and constructs. They think that all complexity in the world is made up, like their own studies, to get points, but none of it is true. Truth is whatever the powerful say it is.
They never have to create anything other than words, so they never have to confront their lack of real knowledge.
Bertrand Russell:
The stupid are cocksure, and the intelligent are full of doubt.
Most people would rather die than think. In fact, they do so.
Andrew_M_Garland at May 6, 2010 3:29 PM
The problem with deconstructionism as that idiot applied it, was that it was applied as if the thing itself didn't matter.
True the names themselves have only the meanings we give to them.
We could have named the sun Zorgalblatz, and it wouldn't change anything. But what worth is such a statement supposed to have?
That we can name things what we like, does not change the objective fact that those things exist.
Shakespeare said all they had to say that was worth hearing when he wrote:
A rose by any other name, would still smell as sweet.
That single statement both summarizes the entirety of the deconstructivists philosophy...AND utterly smashes whatever worth it might have with the objective and irrefutable fact of the effect of the thing. In this case a rose.
--------------------
I remember reading about a philsopher arguing against such relativity.
He said he could prove reality. So he took off his shoe, he kicked a rock. The rock moved, thus proving he had interacted with it, and his foot hurt, thus proving via effect that both of them were real. He asked a relativist to apply a test of his own that would validate his ideas, and for all his hemming and hawing, he could not. Essentially reducing the relative reality notion to exactly what it was, fluff philosophy without any real value or application.
Robert at May 6, 2010 3:31 PM
As Spartee said way up thread, this kind of silliness has been with us for ages. It's perhaps more silly now that we know more about the way the world works, so long debates on whether matter is composed of atoms or monads are hopefully not necessary. but have you *read* those early Royal Society blokes from the 1600s? They had some truly whack ideas and debates.
anathema at May 6, 2010 4:28 PM
Zorgalblatz
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at May 7, 2010 12:47 AM
Cotinuing in Crids vien should any of you ever have the pleasure to speak with a deconstrucionalist just speak a string of random words wholly unrelated to each oter or the subject at hand and then demand that they tell you what you just said
lujlp at May 7, 2010 2:03 AM
lujlp:
just speak a string of random words wholly unrelated to each other or the subject
- - - - - - - - - -
... that doesn't come as easy to the rest of us as it does to you, dahling.
And you should all know that Zorgalblatz is neither Yiddish nor Hebrew.
Ben-David at May 7, 2010 7:01 AM
Ben-David, for a married guy claiming to be straight, you sure make a lot of passes at me
lujlp at May 7, 2010 8:04 AM
The academy has turned into the modern equivalent of the medieval mystery guild. They consider themselves to be in possession of revealed knowledge (in the Gnostic sense), and their main mission in life is to gather up the chosen few and keep the rabble out. They use jargon, not to communicate, but to conceal knowledge and as a code by which the chosen may identify their fellows. They regard their purity of thought as their most important asset, so much so that they regard any contact with the outside world as an intellectual hazard -- infection with impure thoughts that might corrupt the faithful.
Cousin Dave at May 7, 2010 8:50 AM
OK let's not pretend this anti-logic, anti-science sentiment is an American woman thing... it is an American culture thing. This is the country where putting the theory of evolution in textbooks is controversial.
American culture doesn't like intellectuals, period. Being seen as an intellectual is a liability in a political candidate, or even in many social situations. There are some limited circles where this is the exception... some of the Jewish Americans and Asian Americans for example, but by and large our culture worships jocks and hates nerds.
Hell, even on this forum there were people whining a while back that professors actually wanted to be given time and money to do research. Not quite sure what folks wanted them to do instead... do it as an unpaid hobby at midnight?
I disagree with David... I don't think there are different numbers of actual intellectuals and jobs for them, its just that a lot of the jobs that ought to go to intellectuals go to bullshitters.
Call me a facist, but I don't think identity politics should be a common major. African American, Queer, Women's, etc... these would make great *minors*... say you feel concerned about the plight of African Americans, you could major in business and minor in African American studies, or major in medicine and minor in it, ie take the *minor* to understand the situation, but take a *major* that provides you with actual skills to help the situation.
The actual number of identity politics major shouldn't be high, as the only job it can lead to is a professorship (unless you bail and go for jobs outside the field). There are a limited number of professorships so there really is no point in churning out all these grads in the field.
NicoleK at May 7, 2010 1:43 PM
Here's the Chief Guru of Deconstructionists.
Robert W. (Vancouver) at May 7, 2010 4:21 PM
luj:
Ben-David, for a married guy claiming to be straight, you sure make a lot of passes at me
- - - - - - - - -
If you interpret that as a pass - you must really be desperate!
Ben-David at May 8, 2010 12:15 PM
"As a scientist, I've always considered most postmodern scholarship as an attempt on the part of 'soft' liberal arts disciplines to add to their cred by creating a separate vocabulary..."
True, but it's more than that. It's also political, part of the Left's attack on Western civilization.
pst314 at May 8, 2010 4:53 PM
"Surely this has much to do with the increasing influence of women in academia..."
Jeff, the leading theorists of post-modernism are/were all men. (I saw 'were' because some of them are finally dead.) A lot of them were Nazis and fascists during WWII, and the inclination toward fascistic ideology wrapped up in egalitarian language continues today.
pst314 at May 8, 2010 4:56 PM
Oops, that should be "I SAY 'were'..."
pst314 at May 8, 2010 4:57 PM
"The number of academics currently employed is probably considerably larger than the number of people who have genuine academic skills and interests."
I'd change that from "probably" to "certainly".
pst314 at May 8, 2010 5:00 PM
Apart from the images of dadaism and The Matrix going through my head, I believe that this woman would be a great foil on an episode of South Park.
mpetrie98 at May 8, 2010 7:15 PM
Some excellent experiences that can be learnt through the post. I have today come to understand that that a person can really be successful in this particular issue and acquire new skills and qualities through reading a web site like yours. Thank you for the interesting tips you have shared here.
sportz suv tent at May 9, 2011 9:29 AM
Leave a comment