Well, if I'm going to be miserable, I'd rather be miserable while getting a massage in a suite at The Four Seasons.

I think the old saying is "Money can't buy happiness, but it allows you to choose the kind of unhappiness you would like to have".

I know a few very poor people who have had hard lives and a lot of bad luck, and none of them are stupid enough to believe this kind of claptrap. To them money is an escape. It's only the reasonably well off who increase their spending to match their income who conclude that they are no better off for it.

Sounds like something Dilbert's Pointy-Haired Boss would say, right before handing out pink slips. Good luck grads!

Well, I wasn't happy about losing my job, but I'm not exactly miserable. Yet. Would I like to find a job? Sure! Would I like to win the lottery? Oh HELL yeah! o.O

I've lived in wealth and I've lived in poverty, and I can tell you this: poverty sucks.

Sorry, but not having to worry about putting food on the table or keeping the lights on DOES up your happiness. Entitled asshats wrote this article.

What you own ends up owning you. I thought I was lucky to become an internet millionaire in the 90's. I've spent the last 10 years obsessed with trying to preserve that wealth, and guess how much I've enjoyed that.

I have to point out that, in the context of the rest of the paragraph that quote comes from, it is quite a bit more reasonable than it sounds by itself. He was talking specifically about the attraction of taking a higher-paying job that you don't like, merely because it is higher paying. In that context, it is true - you take the higher-paying job, but once you get used to your higher-paid lifestyle, that original attraction wears off to some extent, and you are left with the realization that you don't like your job, and the extra pay doesn't mitigate it as much as it did when you started.

Of course, ultimately it depends on how big a payoff you are getting for how big a headache the job is, whether it's worth it or not.

I think there's a baseline, a minimum amount of money needed so one is not constantly struggling, and so one can do fun things and not stress out too much about it. But beyond that... are people who are private school rich much more miserable than those who are private jet rich?

My 50th high school reunion coming up next month. I just found out a buddy died in November.

He used to say, "Money cannot buy love, but it can buy a number of reasonable facsimiles thereof."

In my life, I found that the secret to financial comfort is simply living one notch down from your income level.

When I started out, I lived in a poor and cheap apartment. When I made more money, I moved up to a nicer place, and got a better car, and spent more on recreation and clothes. Thus, with more money, I had no more left, and really life wasn't any better.

And, so it goes for most people all the way up the ladder. The trick is to live one notch down below your income level, and you will have much more money with less stress.

"In my life, I found that the secret to financial comfort is simply living one notch down from your income level."

The other half of that secret is finding a spouse that lives the same way.

Yes, you should live below your income, but I still maintain that there is a certain basic comfort level. I mean, if living below your income means no heat...

A friend of mine worked at a job she disliked for twelve years. Her philosophy was that the job gave her the money to live the way she wanted to live, while she went to school for her teaching degree.

I, on the other hand, have tried my hand at many different types of work, at varying levels of money and "quality of life".

She's had more stability, I've had more adventures.
At this stage, we're probably at a fairly even level of happiness and money. (But I've got the best stories!)

"He was talking specifically about the attraction of taking a higher-paying job that you don't like, merely because it is higher paying."

I've occasionally wondered what my life would be like if I'd taken the high-octane professional route, become a CFO or Treasurer of a company, made big bucks, and worked 70 hours a week. Quite honestly, all I would do is save up enough money to quit. If I made a million dollars a year, I'd probably only hang onto the job for the first year and then quit after my first million. I'm not lazy, but work just isn't my thing - maybe I should have chosen a different field, but I have no idea what it would be. Mainly, I'm into OTHER things - things I can't get paid to do.

My thirties were kind of a "lost decade" of working at jobs I utterly despised. And I learned that life really is too short to wake up each morning dreading the day ahead of you. I spent most of ten years that way. But on the other hand, I made the most of it - I gained work experience and paid off my damn mortgage. Now I don't have any bills and can work on-again, off-again as a temp. When I feel like it. It really doesn't matter now how much I make now. The more money I make at any given assignment, the more time I can take off when the assignment is done.

It might be interesting to stop looking at this in terms of how much money you make, and consider how much money you need. People who content themselves with $2,000 paid-for cars and unpretentious, paid-for homes don't need to worry much about how much money they make.

One shouldn't forget the seemingly basic human need to be better than someone else. I recall a study that basically asked people if they would rather

a) earn 200,000 and have all their friends earning twice as much

b) earn only $100,000 but all their friends earn half as much

I'm sure I've got the numbers wrong, but you get the idea. Most people chose the second alternative - it was more important to be one-up on their friends than to have a higher standard of living.

> One shouldn't forget the seemingly basic
> human need to be better than someone else.

Dude! Dude.... Dude.

DOOD.

I so agree with this.

It's one of the primary human desires. I think the list goes something like this:

1. Food
2. Clothing
3. Shelter
4. Sex
5 & 6 (tie). Look down on others / Music

Heh ... When I told one of my friends that I was going to pull whatever I needed out of my IRA to pay off the mortgage and make a career out of temp work, she practically sniffed, 'Well, you never were one to want anything better.'

Simple living (or do some people call it "minimalism"?) may be fashionable in some circles, but to a lot of folks it just means you have no ambition.

Pirate Jo, I promise I'm not being snarky or sarcastic, but what do you plan on doing when you're too old to work? Do you have enough saved up not to worry about it? What if you get sick or are disabled? I'm really honestly curious! I've never thought about working from temp to temp like that, also I work at a financial planning agency and see all these projected inflations on the cost of living and long-term care and retirement costs.. so the numbers make me nervous sometimes; I feel like I'll never be able to stop working!

No problem, Angie.

What do I plan on doing when I'm too old to work? Die. I'm only half-joking. I do financial analysis and accounting, which doesn't require lifting concrete blocks, so I figure I can probably work until I'm at least 75. I am fine with this, since as a temp I can take a lot of time off already, even now while I'm young. It's kind of like being semi-retired already. Given the choice between a work life that I enjoy and have to do longer, versus a work life that I hate but have to do for twenty more years so I can quit altogether, the first option was an easy choice.

I am not being snarky or sarcastic either, but in my experience financial planning agencies try to scare you into giving them your money. (No one will change your diaper when you're 90! Start your bedpan fund now, before it's too late!) You're supposed to work like a dog, hand as much of that paycheck as you can possibly extract over to them, and supposedly it's so that when you're 90 you can live in a nice nursing home or long-term care facility, but really it's to make them rich.

This concept of "retirement" is a relatively new thing anyway, and only came into existence with the Ponzi scheme of Social Security. It, along with the pension scheme, is soon going the way of the dinosaur. And then it's just going to be down to what we can save, and in thinking that you can never stop working you are probably correct. By the time we get old, MOST people probably won't retire. I have enough in checking/savings to live on for two years, and about that same amount in an IRA. No, not a long retirement, but a decent semi-retirement. So part of the answer to your question about retirement is that I don't plan to retire.

The other part is, I'm not sure that I even care all that much. I am 40, with a good 35 more years of work ahead of me, and does it make sense to be fretting over what's going to happen when I'm 85? That seems to me like spending my whole life dying instead of living. I don't want to put off doing the things that I want "until retirement."

Anyway, there is no reason why, in another 15 years when I'm 55, I might not take a full-time job again somewhere and start accumulating more money. Because it's true - right now I am leaving my little cushion alone but am otherwise only rolling along on a break-even basis. I might feel inclined to save more if I didn't think we were nearing a global currency collapse, and if I had some reason to think that the money I saved would continue to be worth anything.

If I get to the point where I'm super-old and sick, can't work and have no savings, it won't matter. Either my sweety and family will take care of me, or welfare will, or a hose and an exhaust pipe. I don't even consider the options of a nursing home or long-term care facility to be on the table.

Go, Pirate Jo!

I'm 54, and retirement is just a pretty concept for me.

My boss is around seventy-five and not ready to retire. He loves his profession and I figure I'll just find him passed away at his desk some day.

One of his clients is 104 years old. He called to ask me if he still had to file his income taxes, because he had heard that after you turned 100 you didn't have to anymore. Well, I'm afraid he heard wrong.

He isn't hurting, though. He worked until he was ninety-two, and his benefits are pretty good. I guess people around here just don't want to retire. Myself, I'd be happy to have the option, but I'll be in my seventies before I have the house paid off, assuming I can keep going.

As for the point of no return, I'm planning to walk out into a snowstorm. We get some good ones.

Those figures those financial planners give you for minimum retirement needs are greatly exaggerated. It is true if social security is shut down the requirements will go up. But, I don't know anyone who had millions of dollars saved.

The unknown truth is when you retire, your financial needs drop rapidly.

First, you don't need to keep paying that (7%??) FICA any more, plus the income tax on that 7% adds up to well over 10% drop in needed money just for escaping FICA withholding.

Then, you no longer have extensive commuting costs, nor clothing for work costs.

A lot of people develop fun things to do which cost little. In my little city, there were city gardens and a lot of people rented garden lots, and spent time there daily. Not just working on the gardens, but socializing with other gardeners.

Others did a wide variety of fun activities at low cost, without feeling deprived.

Recreation for working folks is expensive, because it has to be done fast. Retired recreation is slow because you need not hurry.

Also, working people spend a lot of money eating out because they don't feel like cooking after a long day. Learn the words crock pot and spend your day having fun then go home and eat.

When you are retired, you can learn to fix things yourself, because you have the time.

A lot of our retirees said they never had so much money before retirement even though pension income was much lower than they made at work.

Not to mention what happens to those who move to rural Mexico, heh, heh.

Oops! I do not want to mislead anyone. Expat organizations have learned those who move to Mexico to save money are miserable. Don't even think of moving here because it's cheaper. Sorry to imply something because of a joke.

Interesting point about payroll taxes, Irlandes! As I said, I make just enough money to take care of myself and roll along at the break-even point. But since I make less (due to time-off breaks) than before, it's amazing how much of a difference it makes not to pay so much in taxes. Seriously, the amount of money I save due to paying less taxes is enough to live on - AND have entertainment - for about four months.

And this made me laugh out loud, since my sense of humor tends to get a little dark:

"As for the point of no return, I'm planning to walk out into a snowstorm. We get some good ones."

Way, WAY better idea than mine.

Ltw - Dad used to say, "Money can't buy happiness ... but it can rent it for a while." Also, "It's no sin to be poor ... just mighty damned inconvenient..."

Dark humor is my favorite kind. Of course, I also like puns, so what do I know? It's a good thing for my husband that I do, since after I told him my snowstorm plan he said it was a good one, since I'm flaky and my attention tends to drift...I'm taking him with me.

Pirate Jo, I think we've lived parallel lives. Gotta love ya!

Pricklypear, I have been chuckling all afternoon about your 104-year-old client. I think it's too bad we DON'T have a tax rule like that! Jeez, if you live to be 100, Uncle Sam should show some respect.

I totally agree. It's not that the IRS would be out that much money. Than again, we are living longer these days. Maybe that's what they're afraid of.

Waitaminnit--that's why we're all supposed to live longer,and get healthier! So we can Keep On Working! It's a conspiracy between the insurance industry and the IRS! As Dorie the fish would sing: "Just keep working, just keep working, what do we do we work, work..."

Oh, there's something amiss afoot, alas.

What do I plan on doing when I'm too old to work? Die.

It's worth noting that our concept of retirement age comes from a time when life expectancy was much lower - this was literally what happened, most people would retire at 60 or 65 and die a few years later. If we were realistic about that today retirement age would be something like 75.

The only problem I can see with your plan Pirate Jo is if you develop a really serious illness that prevents you from working - although your job isn't physical you still need to be able to get around, have reasonable vision and dexterity, etc. The older you plan to work the greater the risk of this happening. But it sounds like you've taken reasonable steps with regard to having enough savings as a buffer which will protect you from anything but a catastrophe.

I second all those who have said the way to be happy is to live below your means - I'm perfectly happy with an old but servicable car, old and rundown but adequate and very high asset/debt ratio house. I dress neatly but I don't have much in the way of fancy clothes. I cook a lot and don't snack much which saves more money than you would think. I still don't have any money though - the savings all go on entertainment, dinners out, booze, and smokes :) but the advantage of those is you don't have to worry much about retirement - the odds I'll live long enough to access my retirement savings are pretty low...

Dear all,
At one time I planned to work forever. My mind was always my greatest asset. Now at the age of 47, I have had 4 strokes. I don't imagine now that I'll be able to work until 75 or 80. Plan for the future. Surprises can happen.

As for the point of no return, I'm planning to walk out into a snowstorm. We get some good ones.
Posted by: Pricklypear

As far as "ways to die" goes, freezing is pretty good.I almost died of hypothermia once. Didnt notice a thing until my skin started changing color right before my eys

Pirate Jo, and others who weighed in, thanks! It makes some sense to me, and actually sounds kind of nice, but I don’t think I could ever do it. I worry way too much about the what-ifs.. I do wish that was something I could change. I find it all very interesting. I’m young, I’ve only been working full time for a little over two years, and I just like to hear what more experienced people have to say about it all.

Money cannot buy happiness, but it can give you better places to shop for it.

I read a study somewhere that people need a certain baseline of money to be happy, then anything above that doesn't really matter. I think this makes sense-taking account that that baseline is probably going to vary from person to person.

The information I saw said that up to $80,000 there was a correlation between increased happiness and increased income. The actual value depends on the regional costs, $80k was the average for the US.