Good Video About Gaza Flotilla: What Really Happened
Goods and food get into Gaza just fine -- the Israelis just inspect shipments to see there are no rockets, etc., to be used against them:
Good Video About Gaza Flotilla: What Really Happened
Goods and food get into Gaza just fine -- the Israelis just inspect shipments to see there are no rockets, etc., to be used against them:
Liberals never have an answer about what Israel should do about rocket fire on its cities.
They object to border controls, and of course they object to a military response. They won't actually come out and say so, but they believe that Israelis should live with the rockets.
Engineer at June 9, 2010 3:36 AM
Goods and food get into Gaza just fine -- the Israelis just inspect shipments to see there are no rockets, etc., to be used against them.
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Amy this statement is not true, Israel is not allowing in enough food to sustain the population. Israel does not allow in many necessities, many foods, medical supplies and building materials are not allowed in. A sizable portion of foreign aid sits in warehouses in Israel. Tens of thousands of people have been living in tents for years, watching their children suffer from malnutrition. These children are denied education, food, housing, clean water, electricity, security of person and their childhood.
I do not defend the terrorists, they are their own worst enemies and the enemy of Palestinians by giving Israel an excuse to not deal with the Palestinians. But, most Palestinians are innocent civilians. Israeli soldiers have murdered hundreds of children. This is fact. I feel sorrow for Israelies and Palestinians. Neither people have ever enjoyed security but at least Israelies have enough food to eat and clean water to drink. While I believe that Islam is the greatest threat to world peace, I think Israel has done a good job of ensuring that it is a threat.
When Israel was created Palestinians were both muslim and Christian. Lebanon was a Catholic country. The creation of Israel has ultimately been the greatest boon to Islam.
Israel has today announced that it is relaxing the blockade a bit and will allow in a few new food items - cookies and pop, which are no substitute for good nutrition. Cookies and pop, I bet the Palestinians would have been a lot more grateful for clean water to drink. Why did they choose to allow junk food when they still deny necessities like shampoo and pasta, wheelchairs and medicine, and clean water? I would have more respect for Israel if they did not knowingly choose to punish children for the evil choices of their neighbours. There is a reason many Israelies and Jewish people around the world do not agree with Israeli policy regarding Palestinians.
It is wrong when people equate not supporting Israel's government polices as support for terrorists. I support neither. I believe that all children deserve proper nutrition and anyone who denies them food is cruel and a criminal. Hamas and the government of Israel are equally responsible for this crime.
I enjoy reading your column and blog and will continue to do so. On this topic we can agree to disagree.
Ingrid at June 9, 2010 1:20 PM
Ingrid, please back up those statements with some kind of proof, otherwise you might be mistaken for some european left wing anti-Israel arab apologist
Ron at June 9, 2010 1:31 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/06/09/good_video_abou.html#comment-1722015">comment from IngridMort Zuckerman gave the Palestinians $14 million in donated greenhouses and they destroyed them.
Do support your statement. Israel doesn't allow in arms, shocking as it may be.
Amy Alkon at June 9, 2010 1:49 PM
Israel does not allow in many necessities, many foods, medical supplies and building materials are not allowed in. A sizable portion of foreign aid sits in warehouses in Israel. Tens of thousands of people have been living in tents for years, watching their children suffer from malnutrition. These children are denied education, food, housing, clean water, electricity, security of person and their childhood.
This is mostly untrue. You should provide your sources.
In particular, international aid is abundant and is facilitated by the Israelis (not kept in their warehouses).
It is true that there are large numbers of people in refugee camps. This is because the Palestinians refuse to give them permanent housing as they intend to move them into pre-1967 Israel after they have wiped Israel from the map.
Engineer at June 9, 2010 2:29 PM
There is no shortage of food in Gaza, Ingrid. For eye-witness evidence of this, please go here:
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/06/danish-report-from-gaza-wheres.html
Note that most of this abundant produce is grown in Israel, not Gaza itself. When Israelis withdrew from Gaza, they left behind a vast, state-of-the-art network of greenhouses, enough to grow crops for Gazans and millions of dollars worth of exports besides. Every one of those greenhouses was looted, smashed, and burned to the ground by Palestinians.
I wouldn't want to live in Gaza. But if Palestinians stopped being insanely self-destructive, and stopped letting Hamas use their land as a launching pad for rockets aimed at Israeli schoolchildren, their lives would immediately be much better.
Martin at June 9, 2010 3:19 PM
Tens of thousands of people have been living in tents for years, watching their children suffer from malnutrition. These children are denied education, food, housing, clean water, electricity, security of person and their childhood. - dumbass of the day
Those children are denied such things by their own parents who care more for their carfully nurtured hatred then they do for thier own children.
How had really would it be for the palisinians to have peace? All they have to do is stop supporting terrorists, and stop acting as their human sheilds. They had millions of dollars in suppiles and matieras dumped on them from around the globe, and rther than using in in an attempt to better thier lives they'd rather play mayrter for a religion which despises them and will kill them if they ever manage to wipe out Isreal.
Tell me somthing Ingrid, sould any one of the dozen or o mulsim run coutries all of which have on many many many occasions openly and brazens boasted of their planes for genocide get a working nuclear device.
Do you really think they will spare a moments thought for the palistinians before pushing the button?
lujlp at June 9, 2010 6:25 PM
I was grabbing a bite to eat at the pub last night and they had some satellite channel on (the server didn't know beyond the number) the TV. It was some newsie program. The segment started with a voice over about the Israelites and they where being ridicules - the people in Gaza would never build tunnels under the border especially not using any concrete they might get. Ok...The end of the segment talked about how these innovate people had built tunnels under the border the Egypt(?) including how they had ground-up old concrete and reused it. Seems to me the later part of the segment contradicted the first.
The Former Banker at June 9, 2010 9:15 PM
http://www.fastforgaza.net/resources
Above is a link to a website that has a list of items that are not allowed into Gaza.
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Excerpts from the UN.
- UNRWA had not been allowed to build a school in Gaza for three years
-In terms of food aid, of the estimated 900,000 people queuing for food, only 30,000 could be served before supplies ran out.
-Israel’s policy was also obstructing the teaching of human rights in UNRWA schools, he said, since related textbooks could not be printed because paper was not allowed in.
-The report – which focuses on both early recovery and reconstruction needs – says educational facilities such as schools are among the categories of buildings hardest hit since the offensive. More than 82 per cent of such facilities remain unrepaired or unreconstructed today.
-Private homes are also affected, with almost none of the 3,425 homes that were destroyed in the conflict having been reconstructed. An estimated 75 per cent of agricultural land and premises and 60 per cent of private businesses are also still damaged
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From Amnesty International
-Mass unemployment, extreme poverty and food price rises caused by shortages have left four in five Gazans dependent on humanitarian aid. As a form of collective punishment, Israel’s continuing blockade of Gaza is a flagrant violation of international law
-Since the blockade of Gaza was imposed in June 2007, none of the Israeli-controlled crossings between Gaza and Israel has been open in a regular or consistent way, and relatively little aid is getting through.
-The blockade prohibits most exports and restricts the entry of basic goods, including food and fuel.
-Rather than targeting armed groups, the blockade mainly hits the most vulnerable, such as children (who make up more than half of the population in Gaza), the elderly, the sick and the Gaza Strip's large refugee population.
-According to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, the number of refugees living in abject poverty in the Gaza Strip has tripled since the blockade began. These families lack the means to purchase even the most basic items, including soap, school materials and clean drinking water. According to the UN, more than 60 per cent of households are currently "food insecure".
There are worsening problems with the supply of electricity in the Gaza Strip, with many residents enduring 8-12 hours of power cuts each day. There are also recurrent shortages of cooking gas, requiring the implementation of a rationing scheme in which hospitals and bakeries are prioritized.
Aid blocked
While Israel allows some humanitarian supplies from international aid agencies into Gaza, these are strictly limited and frequently delayed.
Health
-Gaza's health sector has been plagued by shortages in equipment and medical supplies during the blockade.
-Following the Israeli closure of crossings, people with medical conditions that cannot be treated in Gaza have been required to apply for permits to leave the territory to receive treatment in either foreign hospitals or Palestinian hospitals in the West Bank.
-The Israeli authorities frequently delay or refuse these permits; some Gazans have died while waiting to obtain permits to leave the territory for medical treatment elsewhere.
-World Health Organization (WHO) trucks of medical equipment bound for Gazan hospitals have repeatedly been turned away, without explanation, by Israeli border officials.
the blockade has severely hampered or prevented reconstruction efforts. With many construction materials barred or limited by Israel, Gaza’s inhabitants are unable to rebuild their shattered lives.
-whatever its stated justification, the blockade is collectively punishing the entire population of Gaza, the majority of whom are children, rather than targeting the Hamas administration or armed groups.
Human Rights Watch
-Israel's ongoing blockade of Gaza has also created massive humanitarian need and prevented the reconstruction of schools, homes, and basic infrastructure.
-The only things getting built in Gaza are desperation and despair."
-Human Rights Watch documented serious laws-of-war violations by Israeli forces during their military operation, including drone-launched missile attacks that killed 29 civilians, the killing of 12 civilians holding white flags, and the use of white phosphorus munitions in densely populated areas.
Israeli forces also deliberately destroyed, without lawful military justification, many homes and other civilian property, including farms, factories, and much of Gaza's water and sanitation network. Most of this property remains unrepaired.
Reconstruction in Gaza remains at a standstill due to the ongoing Israeli blockade, which restricts the entry of materials, goods, and fuel required by the civilian population.
The scale of the destruction in Gaza one year ago was extensive: 3,540 homes, 268 factories and warehouses, as well as schools, vehicles, water wells, public infrastructure, greenhouses and large swathes of agricultural land.
According to the UN, the fighting created roughly 600,000 tons of concrete rubble, but Israel has allowed only 41 truckloads of reconstruction materials into Gaza over the past year - about four truckloads a month.
The 116-page report, "‘I Lost Everything': Israel's Unlawful Destruction of Property in the Gaza Conflict" documents 12 separate cases during Operation Cast Lead in which Israeli forces extensively destroyed civilian property, including homes, factories, farms, and greenhouses, in areas under their control, without any lawful military purpose. Human Rights Watch's investigations, which relied upon physical evidence, satellite imagery, and multiple witness accounts at each site, found no indication of nearby fighting when the destruction occurred.
In the cases investigated in the neighborhoods of Izbt Abd Rabbo, Zeitoun, and Khoza'a, Israeli forces had destroyed virtually every home, factory, and orchard within certain areas, indicating an apparent plan of systematic destruction in these locations.
The evidence shows that, in these cases, Israeli forces gratuitously destroyed people's homes and livelihoods,"
Ingrid at June 10, 2010 8:41 AM
oh ya, those renowned non political entities, the UN and amnesty international. Sorry, no weight at all. If the palestinians mattered to anybody they would not be in the situation they are in. They need to look inward to see the issue. How many billions of dollars were given to the palestinian authority and where did it go? Hamas is an avowed eternal hater of israel. God I hate european holier than though liberal wogs. Clean up your own fucking backyard before you worry about others.
Ron at June 10, 2010 11:42 AM
Ingrid,
You made some specific accusations in your first post, then when asked for sources you made a big copy paste (without paragraph breaks) from a clearly partisan source.
Though material from AI and even UNRWA should taken seriously (even if it is often partisan), much of what you posted is actually talking about the aftermath of the 2006 Gaza war (in which Hamas stored munitions among to population so as to use them as human shields etc.) and not the current situation.
To get a real picture (which is difficult because Hamas does not like independent reporting), it's necessary to also consult other sources eg. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/stephaniegutmann/100041991/was-gaza-in-urgent-need-of-food-aid-in-the-first-place/
Engineer at June 11, 2010 3:14 AM
Ingrid, quick question.
Why are the Jews responsible for the choices of the palistinians?
More importantly why should the Jews be required to aid their eneimes in anything after a war was declared on them by the leagal government of gaza over nothing more than the words written down over twelve hunndered yrs ago by a psycotic delusional child raping warlord?
Why?
lujlp at June 11, 2010 4:52 AM
lujlp, I am not sure what you are asking me. I agree with your description of Muhamed, he was a "psycotic delusional child raping warlord." I would add to your description, narcissistic, mysogynistic, blood-thirsty murderer. See, we do agree on some things. But, it is possible to hate a religion and still be against human rights abuses.
As for the Jews being required to aid their enemies, um, Israel, not 'the Jews,' is responsible for imprisoning 1.5 million people and denying them housing, clean water, food and medical supplies. Aid agencies collect food and supplies for the people of Gaza and Israel is not allowing much of that aid to enter Gaza. Israel has placed themselves in the position of responsibility for ensuring that the Palestinians receive this aid.
Israel does not hide this fact so anyone who denies it is not bothering to look it up. As you can see from my previous post, it is a Jewish group (of Rabbis) who provided the list of goods not allowed to enter Gaza, this same group of Jewish Rabbis are diseminating the information and declaring that Israel is not dealing humanely with Palestinians.
Engineer, if you do not accept the facts as set out by the UN, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and a GROUP OF ISRAELI RABIS, then, clearly, you will not accept any source. The posts that I pasted above are all current documents from within the last few months, all regarding the current blockade.
Ingrid at June 11, 2010 8:30 AM
Ingrid, every time materials go in uncheacked Irsreal is attacked without cause or provocation.
If I had a neighbor attacking me for no good reason calling for the murder of myself and my familly and I had the man power to form a blockade around his property I'd do the same damn thing Isreal is doing.
I mean seriously, this has been going on now for over 60yrs. 60 yrs of bombs and attacks and murder. What the fuck do you reasonably think Isreal should do?
They tried it they way everyone on earth demanded for of 50yrs and all they got in return for their investment was death.
I was part of the "Isreal is being mean" crowd for a while. I saw them pull out of the west bank and gaza as the international comunity demanded.
And then I saw how the palistinans destroyed the infrastructure that Isreal left behind, I saw the palistinians repay their met demands with more demands, and rocket attacks and bombings and a cry for Ireals complete and total destruction.
Do you not understand that the palistinains will never stop until Isreal is wiped off the map or until they give up their religion?
Since the moment of islams conception the only thing that has ever stopped it is overwhelming force. Sadly death is the only thing their religion allows them to uderstand.
The palistinians are in their current situation because they WANT TO BE IN IT.
Their circumstances will change when they do, until then - actions have consequences and they deserve to get exactly what they asked for
lujlp at June 11, 2010 9:15 AM
Ingrid, You misrepresent what I wrote. While I believe that HRW is biased against Israel (eg. did they give a s--- about the rocket fire on Sderot?) I did not dismiss out of have hand what they say.
There are generalizations, there are specific claims and there are anecdotes. Your sources are mostly generalizations and anecdotes. Moreover they don't back up your broad claims.
I would be willing to discuss the specifics, if you actually are interested. Take one topic eg. amount of aid getting thru, and try to find out what the truth really is.
Engineer at June 12, 2010 11:56 AM
A photo essay in the NYTimes betrays the view of a humanitarian crisis.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/tobin/312801
Engineer at June 13, 2010 6:11 AM
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