"Personally, I frequently look at my behavior to judge whether I've been an ass, because if I can determine I have, I might be able to keep myself from being such an ass in the future."

I love this, but the problem with that is most people don't know, or just don't care that they are being asses. Some people are so lacking in self awareness, or just so entitled, that they aren't capable of thinking "Wait a minute. I just acted like a total jerk. I should go apologize," and then make a mental note to not do it again. Instead, they run around spewing their rudeness on the rest of society and expecting us to cater to them. *sigh* I yearn for the days where public shunning was still an acceptable form of punishment.

My husband and I were just having a discussion about this.

We are planning a small party for his birthday, and a bunch of people haven't responded yet. We had a similar problem for the wedding. We had 10 people not show and not call to tell us they weren't coming. There was a vegan family of four that we had made special arrangements for. My husband thinks people don't really "get" the need for RSVPs and headcounts until they plan their own wedding, so it's no big deal.

I called bullshit on this, since I have been exposed to party planning since my 6th birthday party at McDonald's, and I attended plenty before I got married. So I've judged these people as the kind of people I don't want at future parties.

So yes, making judgments is an essential part of being human. If I'm walking down a dark alley and someone jumps out pointing a gun at me, I judge that he probably does not have good intentions towards me. That's a reasonable judgment based on the situation and the evidence.

Where judgment gets to be a problem is when it isn't reality-based, such as the anorexic teenage girl who looks in the mirror and sees a fat cow. Unfortunately, over the past half century, the cultural relativists (I can't think of a better term for them) have succeeded in confusing this principle, such that a lot of people are now afraid to make any judgments at all. Which is just as harmful as making unreasonable judgments.

Just awful, MonicaP. By the way, I'll soon have a page up for people to post manners/rudeness issues...Gregg's been working on that.

The obvious point is that, almost without exception, it's people who condemn others for being judgmental who are the most sanctimonious pricks you'll ever meet.

Many people confuse "nonjudgement" witht he moral requirement to "judge favorably" when they can. For example, someone you know passes by as you are stuck by the side of the road and ignores you. It actually turns out that he was rushing someone to the hospital for a major emergency. You should think that first. Similarly, in the case of invitations, many people think that if they do not respond, then the assumption will be that they are unable to make it. They often do not respond because they are not sure yet if they can or cannot make it. They intend to respond once they actually know what they will be doing.

They often do not respond because they are not sure yet if they can or cannot make it.

My take on this: The people who invited you may disappointed if you can not make it, but they will not be devastated. If a reasonable amount of time has passed and you are still not certain you can make it, decline the invitation. Waiting until the last minute gives the impression you were hedging your bets in case something better came along.

If people reply "Yes" and don't show, I initially assume they were in a car accident. That was only true once.

Sabba Hillel - you are talking about giving people the benefit of doubt, something that I totally believe in and try to do as much as possible. As you correctly point out, that is not the same as non-judging, it is simply delaying judgement until you have all of the facts. This doesn't sound to me like what the non-judgement lady is advocating. She doesn't even think that people should be judging themselves. If I'm qualified to judge anyone, it certainly is myself. If everyone would be better about judging their own behavior, there would be no need to judge others. THAT would be an ideal world, but a world with no judgement at all would be total chaos.

The problem is with the quantity of judgments but with what is being judged and to some extent how it is being judged. The other day I saw one of those junk articles saying that now men need to have a iphone (or at least a smart phone) to be dating because it a status symbol. I don't know how true it is, but it seems ridicules to me and I believe it to be true to a large extent.

It also seems like their is a huge gray area between what is acceptable and what is clearly not. If you decide to draw the line much closer to the clear acceptable behavior you will lose out in some way.

I find requests for RSVPs really annoying and generally only done by someone that is not very close to me and/or the event is not very good such that something "better" is likely to pop-up. It feels like they are trying to trap me into doing something. Only a couple of company events seem to really need the info. A vague idea of the number of who will be attending is good enough.

I find requests for RSVPs really annoying and generally only done by someone that is not very close to me and/or the event is not very good such that something "better" is likely to pop-up.

I wish they were not necessary, but without the info, people seem disinclined to not answer at all, like the event is an open house.

A vague idea of the number of who will be attending is good enough.

Not so when you're paying by the plate -- or, in the case of my apartment, when four extra people means having to move the party from the apartment to the communal deck.

It's odd that an RSVP request would be seen as an attempt to "trap" someone. If people don't want to attend my social events, then I don't want them there. Reluctant guests are no fun. But I do need to know how much food to make and how much wine to buy.

-- make that "disinclined to answer"

We make judgments every day, about everything, whether we think about it or not. You can't get dressed without it, can't eat, can't work. Go ahead, try it.

I can only assume that the Former Banker has never paid for a wedding. I'm not a banker, so ten no -shows at over $50 a head is a little more than chump change for me to waste.

See... former Banker, do you read the immediacy in your reply. If something "better" comes along? Thats WHY they ask for the RSVP, so that you will commit. It has a very specific meaning: "répondez s'il vous plaît" and is a planning tool, but also usually formal. A get together of this nature would suffer if people don't show because of the event, if it;s catering, or rental space or whatever.

Casual is quite different, but the bottom line is that we have become so unmannerly that we don't bother to tell people we will or won't be someplace. For my part, I call even on casual occasions if I cannot make it. My friends are the kind of people who worry if I don't show up and haven't let anyone know... because I always try to do as I say I will.

"I will be there..." is not quite the same as giving your word, but in another sense it IS giving your word.

As far as judgement goes, what a crock of bull. A judgement is merely a value decision, we make them to maximize the value of a givien situation for our own benefit. We are made to do so by extension of survival instinct.

What isn't be said is that there is a difference between judgemental and judgement.

like the event is an open house

Now that you mention it, all the good events have had sort of a open house or party feel.

Not so when you're paying by the plate

Certainly true...This appears like the a problem. I cannot think of an event that I believe had pay per plate that was above average. Pay per plate seems like a good warning sign the event is not going to be very good.

I can see the potential issue with the deck. In my experience those types of things just have not been a problem.

"trap" probably is not the best word. So here is an example. My friend (a former co-worker from a long time ago) and his wife throw a party most summers. His wife will demand an RSVP by May 1st -- she writes in the invite that RSVPs not received by May 1st are taken as a no. The party has always been open BBQ for BYOM (Bring your own meat) and beer in his huge backyard. I enjoy going and seeing people I was friends with long ago but now only see there. Still there is a lot of other things that are likely to come up in 3 months before the party that I would prefer to do. If I was RSVPing a week ahead of time it would be different...but 3+ months ahead....

I can only assume that the Former Banker has never paid for a wedding. I'm not a banker, so ten no -shows at over $50 a head is a little more than chump change for me to waste.

Your assumption is correct. I have never paid for a wedding.

Looking at my brother's second wedding, the meal afterwards was under $500 although it was a buffet and relatives (including me) picked it up and set it up and was targeted for 150 people. Due to a freak snow storm only about 40 people showed (including the families). I don't have the money you apparently have to be blowing $50/plate.

Weddings appear to the one event that RSVP might be reasonable for.

Usually my friends and I will confirm a day or so before hand. My friends would be very concerned if I failed to show up to something I had said I was going to. But that seems way different than an RSVP which is usually due quite some time before the actual event.

Former Banker, you sound like 1) You don't like that woman, so just don't attend her BBQs and 2) You never host events. Surely you don't really think that it's unreasonable to request an RSVP for a wedding? Or any other event where the host needs to have enough food, drink, and space for all guests to be comfortable?

I mean really, people are trying to "trap" you? How self-centered. The concept is that socializing is a two way street - someone would like to feed and entertain you, and in return for that generosity, you are willing to confirm that you will show up, barring emergencies.

I think expecting a reply is reasonable for any event someone else is hosting. It takes planning, from how much food and beverages to provide to how much seating. Even small parties take a certain amount of planning. BYOB and BYOM events are a little different in that it is not being hosted by one person if everyone is responsible for bringing something, but I would still reply within a reasonable time frame if it's being held at someone's house.

To tie this into the topic of judgment, though, this kind of stuff tends to work itself out socially. If people find it a burden to reply, I relieve them of that burden by not inviting them to future events. My husband and I have a small apartment and a lot of friends. I'll stick to inviting people who don't find it too much of a hassle to email me and tell me they'll be there.

Those who are quick to say "Judge not..." seem to confuse mortal judgement with divine judgement.

Well there you go, MonicaP. That last sentence is a prime example of showing good judgment.

We judge our children for making stupid choices.

Right. And by explaining traffic to them in a kind but firm way, we might help them live to see six.

We are planning a small party for his birthday, and a bunch of people haven't responded yet. We had a similar problem for the wedding. We had 10 people not show and not call to tell us they weren't coming.

I attended a surprise party this weekend in which guests called 2 hours after the party started (with very few guest available to yell surprise) and asked, "what time should I be there?" The husband, who had spent two weeks planning the party was livid.

A vague idea of the number of who will be attending is good enough.

And how do you think the host and hostess get that "vague idea of the number of who will be attending?"

I think that in many ways the "life coach"** is talking about guilt rather than judgment. My take is that she is saying that people should not feel guilty about their decisions. Which is a raging crock of shit too. Not saying that Catholic guilt should be mandatory (disclosure: not Catholic) judging one's actions, and feeling guilty over one's rudeness or poor behavior is how society improves itself. Sort of the self-imposed shunning alluded to earlier. Sort of.

** Life coach? What the fuck? Your "life coach" is whoever raised you. If the coach did a shitty job and turned you into a shitty person then all of our lives are affected, depending on how close you are to the shit. You do not get to wake up at thirty-too-entitled-five years old and decide that you need a new mommy. Too damn late.

I just looked into the necessary credentials for becoming a life coach. Apparently, there aren't any. I may have found my niche.

I think we are arguing over what is reasonable.

In the case I was talking about above, she wants an RSVP by May 1st for an event that takes place in early August. All they provide is cheap beer and chips which are usually purchased the night before (I have helped my friend do this when he had a broken arm). Their place is huge -- if every single person from that group came and brought a SO and 2 kids, maybe 1/4 of the house would be filled if we needed to be indoors and maybe 1/8 of the yard. I can certainly see talking to people to see if enough people are interested to make it worthwhile. But a hard commit 2 days before would be sufficient. At May 1st my brother's kids schedule is not set so I don't know when their will be family things that I need to attend.

A week or so in advanced seems reasonable in general. Weddings, etc. somewhat longer. However, I have never been to a wedding where the church was more than half full with the except of my brother's first wedding (not the snowed out one) when he and his bride invited the entire church to the wedding via posting at the church. And that worked out fine.

Here might be a bit of insight -- most of my friends have had jobs with varying schedules (Restaurant manager, security) so more than a week or so before hand is a total guess.

And the second part of that is RSVPs have never been very accurate in my experience. Educated guessing based on history was the most accurate. My friend and I used to hold parties and we could accurate guess who would show. Basically it went like this: single men 12/10 verbal commitments would show (meaning every committed one show and few who didn't would), couples 5/10, single women 1/10 if we were luckily. The calculus used was to invite 10 single guys, a few couples, and every single woman we could find. That would usual result 15 to 20 people. One in particular we invited 10 guys, no couples, and 75 single women of which ~50 said they would come... we ended up with 13 guys and one single with her new boyfriend.

I don't generally host at my condo because it is too small. I could get 2 groups of 4, maybe could squeeze 6 into the living room. And people would have to car pool to get that number here. Perhaps that is another thing, the people I am used to hosting parties have big places.

I think the whole life-coach phenom is a crock. I agree that sometimes one needs a bit of direction from a professional, but these people, for the most part, aren't professional at doing much except promoting themsevles.

I spent $900 of my PD funds to go to a seminar hosted by a very well-known life coach. (She's been on Oprah.) This person showed up unprepared, and just "chatted" the whole 2 1/2 days! I spent all that money to be told, over and over again, that for any serious relationship problems, we reach out for help and should see a therapist. And, if we have nasty people in our lives we should avoid them. Nothing a savvy sixth-grader couldn't tell me.

I can't even begin to tell you how ripped off I felt.

Oh and just to make things really special, she spent an awful lot of time plugging other New-agey authors' books, CDs, etc. Arrrgggghhhhh!

The whole "life coach" business is a crock. I spent $900 of professional development funds to spend a weekend with a very famous one. (She's been on Oprah.) She didn't have anything prepared for 2 1/2 days of "classes", and her basic message was: if you're feeling too upset to handle your feelings, talk to a therapist. And, her second piece of advice? Stay away from mean, nasty people! Nothing a savvy sixth-grader couldn't have told me.

Just to make things extra-special, she spent a lot of time plugging other authors' books and seminars. These people are a waste of space.

Sorry for posting a repetitive message twice! I got an error message the first time I tried.

If you have morals, you must make moral judgements.

You cannot say, life and liberty is sacred...but human sacrifice and oppression are not bad, just different, and then expect to be taken seriously by thinking people.

I don't mind judging others morals or cultures, and I don't mind my own being judged in return.

I think formerbanker is talking about only 1 specific thing (and 3 months could be tough to be sure about) and most of us are thinking about "What if I had a dinner party and half of the attendees couldn't make up their mind if they'd be there?" Would have too much food or not enough, same with space, taable, chairs, etc. Besides the fact that you'd feel like your friends just didn't care.

So 3 months might conflict with someone's sudden wedding or a birthday party you don't know about and that you had to be at.

It's off-topic, but please check it, Amy, miight be interesting for you.

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/d1qow/i_got_an_email_today_from_my_new_graduate_program/