How To Be Politely Godless
It's a free Café Inquiry Talk I'm giving at Center For Inquiry in Hollywood on Wednesday, August 25, 7:30 p.m. The deets:
When you sneeze and somebody says "God bless you" do you inform that person there's no evidence for the existence of any such being...or do you just say thank you? Is a more accommodationist atheist a more effective atheist? Should we really be expected to coddle grown adults who cling to silly, evidence-free beliefs? Amy Alkon, author of the science-based but very funny book, I See Rude People: One Woman's Battle to Beat Some Manners into Impolite Society, talks on these and related issues at Café Inquiry on Wednesday, August 25, at 8 p.m. (doors opening at 7:30), with a sure-to-be-lively Q&A afterward. Alkon's book will be available for sale and signing. Or you can purchase it online here for the discounted price of only $11.53.
More:
The LA Weekly called Alkon "Miss Manners with Fangs." She recognized that the manners questions of our age aren't where to put the doily or whether the man should walk on the outside but what you do when some "rudester" is shouting on the cell phone next to you at the coffee house. With her book, Alkon has come up with innovative and surprisingly effective ways to combat The New Rudeness for both the brave and the meek. Her book is based in science and was reviewed as "applied evolutionary psychology at its best" in the journal Evolutionary Psychology.Cafe Inquiry is Center For Inquiry's monthly casual get-together where you can have a coffee and chat with other people on various topics of science. A guest speaker opens the discussion with a brief intro to the subject and then the floor is open. All are welcome!
Free admission • Free Starbucks Coffee • Free pizza • Plenty of parking • Bookstore open
Held in the Steve Allen Theater lobby
at CFI-L.A.The Center for Inquiry-Los Angeles
4773 Hollywood Blvd.
Hollywood, CA 90027
2 blocks west of Vermont
at Berendo
map
Correcting someone on the fallacy of saying God bless you, or just bless you (which is what I generally hear) will make them think. It will make them think you're a rude, smug creep who just made them feel bad for following a social convention.
So I'm afraid I would be an ineffective atheist in the same way I am an ineffective deist. One of the joys of my life lies in not feeling compelled to enlighten people about the "truth".
As for sneezing, I do not believe my soul is poised at the brink of leaping out and being snatched by the devil, but if someone says bless you, I say thank you.
Pricklypear at August 24, 2010 7:54 AM
I dunno, if I say "Bless you" and someone starts lecturing me, I just might feel the need to punch them in the nose for being such a pretentious prick.
In the immortal words of Wil Wheaton: "Don't be a dick."
brian at August 24, 2010 7:57 AM
>>It will make them think you're a rude, smug creep who just made them feel bad for following a social convention.
Agreed. I don't want to talk about your religious non-beliefs anymore than I want to hear about someone else's religious beliefs. I don't enjoy having strangers attempt to save my soul and I don't enjoy an atheist getting in my face about the lack of God when I was merely trying to observe a social convention.
Saying "bless you" is simple politeness. It comes off as nicer than "excuse you!" and is less of a mouthful than "Gesundheidt". It's not an attempt to convert you.
cornerdemon at August 24, 2010 8:40 AM
Half the time, people say "bless you" without thinking about it. I don't think most of them are trying to push a religion on you, they're just being polite.
In that same vein, I ignore it. I'm agnostic, so hey, maybe they have something there. I think it's just easier to say "thank you" and move on. I like to pick my battles, and this one's just not worth it to me.
Ann at August 24, 2010 8:40 AM
Do you ever make it down to San Diego to give talks?
Also, brian++, for invoking Wheaton's Law.
Chris at August 24, 2010 8:40 AM
Amy. Are you ever gonna come to South Florida? Us Southeast coasters love ya too... :(
Sabrina at August 24, 2010 9:00 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/08/25/how_to_be_polit_1.html#comment-1746007">comment from ChrisNo plans for SD yet, but is there a San Diego books fest?
Amy Alkon at August 24, 2010 9:01 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/08/25/how_to_be_polit_1.html#comment-1746025">comment from SabrinaAww, thanks, Sabrina. Here's a thought: if it's not an imposition, would you mind writing to the Miami Festival of Books and suggesting me? That's how I ended up doing Tucson!
Amy Alkon at August 24, 2010 9:34 AM
Now let's not go stigmatizing Miss Manners. I've read all her books and don't believe she mentions doilies once. She's smart, funny, and concerned with the REAL meaning of etiquette, which is basically just observing a set of rules that make the most people comfortable in a social situation. I remember someone writing "Dear Miss Manners, how do you remove a man's spittle from your face?" in reply to which she cackled "How did the spittle get ON your face?" She then went on to say that if it was an accident, you might move in for an embrace, and once you're there, discreetly wipe your face on his jacket. Now if that isn't the opposite of the fatuous notion that she's all about doilies and extended pinkies, I don't know what is.
Steve H at August 24, 2010 10:25 AM
Word for word, what Brian said.
mse at August 24, 2010 10:35 AM
No imposition at all. I shall do so.
Oh but I dont recommend driving if you do make it down here, even if it's just for a vacation. The drivers here have been voted rudest in America 6 times in a row. And they seem to relish in it. On second thought, maybe you can pound some sense into them.
Sabrina at August 24, 2010 10:52 AM
I have two issues with the whole thing:
1) Why is it necessary to comment one someone's involuntary bodily activity (I understand this is a social convention - but WHY?) and
2) When I accept "blessings" upon a sneeze (and even though atheist, I do so politely), then is it not incumbent upon me to extend the blessing to others? That's where I draw the line, but it is a bit uncomfortable to hear someone in proximity to me sneeze, said person being one who has "blessed" me numerous times, and say .... nothing.
I'm certainly not about to start with the "no god" lecture. There's no place for that where I work (thank goodness), but I am still a bit uncomfortable with the sneezing situation.
GHarkness at August 24, 2010 10:52 AM
Then I suggest you GET comfortable with it. We're not changing a silly social convention to conform to your discomfort with religion.
It's the same with people who object to the phrase "Merry Christmas". It's only the fact that you're reminded of the existence of religion that's got a bug up your ass. Accept it and move on.
When Christians start lopping heads off of people THEN you can start worrying about it. Until then, ignore it if it pisses you off that much.
There are far worse things in this world to worry about than whether the person standing next to you harbors a secret love for a supreme being, y'know?
brian at August 24, 2010 11:57 AM
GHarkness:
"Gesundheit" means "healthiness" in German and its what I was taught growing up. For whatever reason, my parents didn't say "bless you", they said "gesundheit". (I think that might be on account of my dad's Jewish upbringing, but I'm not certain) There's a whole list of other responses at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responses_to_sneezing Most have to do with saying "Good Health", not necessarily a mini-prayer.
As for the social convention, there are lots of theories, but my personal thought is that usually you are incapacitated while sneezing and the superstitious people around you thought they were helping by jumping in to do a mini-prayer protecting your soul.
I think it's a nice gesture, actually. Think about it: For most bodily functions, you have to excuse yourself or beg someone's pardon for expelling, excreting, etc. But sneezing is one you get a pass on (that and coughing). And I like the fact that it's such a *nice* gesture. In a society where we very rarely smile and say hello to strangers on the street, when we can hardly seem to be bothered to apologize for nearly ramming each other in the supermarket aisle or thanking someone for their time, here's an area where people still feel comfortable to speak to you no matter who you are or what you look like.
cornerdemon at August 24, 2010 12:11 PM
@brian: what an "uplifting" example of Christianity you are - typical of many of those who believe in sky wizards and magic. Please, don't allow yourself to turn blue in the face waiting on me to follow your "suggestions." And besides, at what point did I ever indicate in any way that I expected people to NOT use the "blessing" when addressing me? My answer solely applies to MY response of silence, not their - or your - comments.
Oh, and if you want examples of Xians lopping off heads (and other fine tortures) take a look at some history.
@cornerdemon: Yes, my husband uses the "gesundheit" step-around, but it doesn't come easily out of my mouth, simply because German doesn't sound natural in my native Texas accent. Nevertheless, I tried that once on my boss, and when I exclaimed "Geshundheit," he replied loudly, "Sauerkraut!" We both had a good laugh, but it's hard for me to do that again :-)
gharkness at August 24, 2010 3:37 PM
I'm an atheist, living in a state where there aren't very many of us. People say "bless you" to be nice. It doesn't really matter to me whether or not they really think they are asking God to bless me, it matters that they are just being polite. So I'm polite back and smile and say "thank you". I have even taken to blessing sneezes myself, again, just so I don't look like a jerk. The words are meaningless to me, and when it comes to random people, objecting is really not worth the trouble. People smile. Everyone feels good that we've had a little interaction.
Katie at August 24, 2010 4:26 PM
Which is interesting, considering I do not accept the divinity of Christ.
In fact, outside of accepting the existence of a non-interactive creator, I'm as close to a pure atheist as it gets.
But the fact that someone would get so offended by a common social courtesy rubs me the wrong way. If you are so arrogant that you think your belief system allows you to be rude to someone simply for being polite, then you deserve to be mocked.
The least you could do is say "thank you."
Oh, and about the head lopping - Christians haven't done that in centuries. Muslims do it every day. Then again, "Death to America" is hardly a polite response to a sneeze, so forgive me if I shove my boot up the ass of anyone who is unwise enough to say it to me.
brian at August 24, 2010 5:09 PM
heh heh, what Brian said. F these people and their constant attacks on our heritage. We were founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs, that is a fact. Up until very recently, Christmas was a national religious holiday, and kids sang carols of a religious nature. Now thanks to atheist a-holes, the aclu, and pussy political correctness, we have to bend over backwards not to offend non-Christians. BTW, I am actually a student of Taoism, but most of my family are strong Christians, and they do not bother me one bit
ron at August 24, 2010 5:19 PM
Sorry, but "Atheist a-holes" aren't responsible for your inability to tell others what to do: the principle of equality before the law is. You should probably consider for, oh, ten seconds why French, Spanish or Portuguese Catholics can't claim as much success despite their piety.
But, in the spirit of "how to be polite", I'll do some of the work for you: HERE is a short explanation about how you form a belief.
If you have objections, please look up "fallacies", say, at the Nizkor Project site, and get back to... yourself. After all, you're the one with beliefs, who should know how they're formed.
I've actually had a fellow at work, convinced that gay people are that way only because they want to be, say, "I don't have to do any research to have an opinion!". He's right. And if you feel that way, or a particular way about any subject without knowing why, you should look doubly hard at why you do.
Radwaste at August 24, 2010 5:37 PM
What gets me are the people who are athiest like Bill Mahr who thinks very little of people who believe in God and yet acts like non-belief is intuitively obvious. If you don't want to believe, fine. But don't mock my beliefs and blanket statements about other people's beliefs, well, it would make more sense if the person saying them had done even a tiny bit of research.
Ever hear of "Evidence that demands a verdict"? It was written by a guy who decided tp prove that Christianity wasn't real. What he found was interesting.
KrisL at August 24, 2010 6:37 PM
"...well, it would make more sense if the person saying them had done even a tiny bit of research."
Hmm. Is this supposed to be in support of religion?
The last thing you want to do to your religion is research - that is, if it's really research and not just a bunch of old, recycled homilies.
Radwaste at August 25, 2010 2:09 AM
KrisL non belief is intuitivly obvious, and it is as easy as breathing to mock religious beliefs because they so often cotradict each other.
And as far as christianity goes - Read Mark 9 vs1 and Matt 16 vs24
Jesus clearly states that some of the people he was talking to, many already in their twenties would not die before the end of the world.
If you are a trinitarian christian then Jesus was god and could never be wrong - and yet the was as we are still here 2000 yrs later.
If you are a non trinitarian christian then Jebus was the physical son of god and according to the doctirnes of non trinitarian churches without sin - which means he lied to his followers, meanin he did sin and was therefore not the son of god.
The very words attributed to Jesus are all the proof needed to disprove the validity of christinity
lujlp at August 25, 2010 4:49 AM
And radwaste is right. Acctual reaserch into any religion is going to kill your faith in it
lujlp at August 25, 2010 4:50 AM
Another fan of the gesundheit work-around. I use it all the time. No one seems to notice (or if they do, they don't seem to care).
Ann at August 25, 2010 8:41 AM
I usually respond with something flippant like, "Not very likely but thanks anyways."
I don't care that a follower of a the mythical version of a long dead Middle Eastern Prophet/Avatar offers me a blessing. I don't believe in the existance of his God(s) so his blessing wastes his time not mine. I don't see any need to enlighten him about the error of his ways unless he tries to pick my pocket or break my leg.
parabarbarian at August 25, 2010 10:03 AM
I always giggle at how the simplest of discussions turns ugly around here.
Saying 'God Bless you' is a simple wish of good fortune. Even if you don't believe in a deity, the intent of that good wish is at worst social convention, at best an attempt to make your day better.
I view 'God bless you' the same way I view a man opening a door for me. I'm capable of opening the door myself, however since someone is attempting to do me a kindness, I thank him and move about my day. No one should shit all over a small attempt at kindness.
-Julie
JulieW at August 25, 2010 11:24 AM
my comments about a-hole atheists only refers to the pricks that say religion offends them and that things like a manger display offend them and use the court system to impose their view of life, even thought they are an extreme minority. I have no problems with atheists who shun religion but allows others to practice whatever makes them happy
ron at August 25, 2010 4:28 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/08/25/how_to_be_polit_1.html#comment-1746497">comment from ronOthers are free to practice their religion in the private sector. They don't get to put the Ten Commandments up at the courthouse. They should be allowed to deny gays and lesbians the ability to marry in their church. Period.
Amy Alkon at August 25, 2010 4:54 PM
Amen, Amy!
(Irony intended).
-Julie
JulieW at August 26, 2010 7:27 AM
As a "non-believer" who likes to be polite, my alternative is the old Seinfeld stand by for a post sneeze reaction:
"You're soooo good lookin'!"
I have to explain it every time but it's worth it. Far better than starting a religious war over some flying snot.
CJ at August 26, 2010 1:17 PM
Like your writing! Still you can do some things to improve it
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